Author Topic: What Leftism Is  (Read 46631 times)

Tarts

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #50 on: 2016-06-24 21:57:13 »
https://www.rt.com/uk/346505-brexit-how-long-leave/, while UK may now be officially out of the EU, negotiations still need to be held to formalize it. Some excerpts: "Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty says that a member state seeking to leave the EU has two-years to complete negotiations on how it will withdraw and what it’s relationship with the bloc will be like post-Brexit.".

Also,

"Although contractual ties could be dissolved in two years, Tusk said that getting every country to approve the agreement could take much longer.

Every single one of the 27 member states as well as the European parliament would have to approve the overall result. That would take at least five years, and I'm afraid, without any guarantee of success.”"

The bolded passage implies that the process could be stalled or even reversed by fellow members and the European Parliament. I doubt it, however, the negotiations may indeed go a long time before things like EU legislation are actually phased out.

I predict hard times for UK, not because of Brexit itself (which I support), but because the elites in power, who still support the EU, are going to sabotage and blame all the post-vote ills on the final result, even though initial economic problems were always gonna happen no matter how bad or good the leadership was. With these crooks in power, however, it's definitely not gonna be as smooth. It's not out of question that after UK's economy suffers a slump, that they'll propose another referendum "to discuss things more soberly now", probably even citing the fact that only slightly under 49% were against it. strawberries, am I giving them ideas? :P

NFITC1, opposition to immigration is perfectly legitimate due to identitarian and economic problems. Despite media disinformation in that respect, most of the people that entered Europe in 2015 weren't even refugees. It's deceptive to constantly show images of children and old people when young men of fighting age who were surprisingly healthy were and probably still are the most represented demographic of people freely entering Europe and against the best wishes of native Europeans.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-24 22:04:31 by Tarts »

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #51 on: 2016-06-25 00:53:22 »
It won't be reversed.  Some people are holding on to a hope that simply isn't possible.  We are out of the EU - and it's already started. The leaders of the EU are already on record as saying they want us out as fast as possible.

Even in the 1000000000-1 chance they even tried, there would be mass riots.  I'd be one of the participants.

The majority of people who are clinging on to this hope that it can be blocked or reversed are in a state of denial - Another thing the left excel at.


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NFITC1, opposition to immigration is perfectly legitimate due to identitarian and economic problems. Despite media disinformation in that respect, most of the people that entered Europe in 2015 weren't even refugees. It's deceptive to constantly show images of children and old people when young men of fighting age who were surprisingly healthy were and probably still are the most represented demographic of people freely entering Europe and against the best wishes of native Europeans.

Spot on.  TO get to Britain you need to have gone through quite a few safe countries.  It's a fact that all of them are entering Britain with no legal right to do so - and it's also a fact that most aren't even fleeing Syria.  Sadly, most are also Muslims from the most backward countries there are - who then create massive issues with lack of cohesion and religious intolerance in the country they have resettled in.  No thanks.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-25 01:07:52 by DLPB »

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #52 on: 2016-06-25 01:17:51 »
If you want a laugh, read the BBC low rated comments - or the Guardian comments.  Check it out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36615028

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What a day eh!

So brexit voters, repeat after me:
'i'm not racist'
'i'm not racist'
'i'm not racist'
'i'm not racist'
'i'm not racist'
'i'm not racist'

(ok, it's really about immigration)

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Great.
Kick out the foreigners and get British people on benefits pulling up carrots, trimming lettuces and doing the jobs nobody else wants to do.
No foreigners will ever take a 'British' job again.
Rejoice all bigots and xenophobes.

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The markets will call this day black Friday which is ironic, considering how racist we are

It's really funny stuff!!!  Still haven't learned that the racist card has lost all power.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-25 01:34:47 by DLPB »

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #53 on: 2016-06-25 03:15:42 »
I don't think it's necessarily racist to want to limit who can enter such a small piece of land like the UK, compared to the US. But who cares if it's racist, you can do whatever you want now.

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #54 on: 2016-06-25 05:13:48 »
The Guardian is actually even funnier. They're so pissed off that they want the vote to be rerun, which should give you an idea of just what lunatics they are.  Here are some of the gems:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/petition-second-eu-referendum-crashes-house-of-commons-website#comments

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Tarantella 6h ago
Given the enormity of the outcome, the slenderness of the lead, the faux politicking behind the whole thing and the fact that the outcome isn't apparently binding --- please let's have a legal challenge. Maybe we can appeal to the European courts? Class action, perhaps?That would be good.

This deluded weirdo is suggesting that the EU itself veto the vote on us leaving the EU.  Something that isn't even remotely possible or constitutional.  But desperation of the far left is always ultra abnormal.

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nonpcman
"Britain has spoken". What rubbish. Half of Britain has belched vitriol and bigotry with little consideration of the consequences. Give us our referendum back!

This poor fellow doesn't even seem to understand the point of a referendum or the fact we just had one.  He "wants it back".  Well, better go find Doc Brown or a Flux Capacitor.

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bartelbe  Chrispytl 5h ago

It is simple, if the number of people signing this outnumbers those who voted to leave the referendum is invalid. Not likely to happen, but the maths is simple.

Perhaps most hilarious of all, this deluded individual believes that an online petition should supersede a referendum held under parliamentary rules and with voting safeguards.  The desperation is laughable.

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diabur
It as beyond ludicrous that such a complex, complicated, critical and far-reaching decision should have been put to a referendum decision.

Many voting had no idea what the whole thing was about ..... but did so because they don't like foreigners.

Haha.  Clearly a lover of democracy and people power. Referendums are held precisely BECAUSE the issue is so important. But shhhh, don't tell diabur.

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Loatheallpoliticians  fourcandles303 5h ago

A second vote, to confirm one way or another and I suspect we'll get one.

Of course if you are so sure you are right then why the problem?

Scotland will get a 2nd vote and if for instance UK parties stand on a mandate of holding a 2nd vote and get elected then they have a democratic mandate to hold another referendum.

You can't bind the future if enough people want another say. The decision was so stupid, so damaging, so driven by lies and the ill educated lower classes being conned that I think another vote will be almost inevitable at some point.

What Leftism is.


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I have got up early to go into work, although it is my day off. I cannot sleep because I am so depressed at what has happened. I simply do not want to see or talk to my two UKIP neighbours, both of whom have boasted to me 'I have got my country back', for fear of telling them what I think of them.

My daughters and their friends are devasted at the way the older generations have blighted their future, and my husband and I are devasted for them. These young people will have to carry the burden of the economic downturn to come, whilst the older generations will sit smugly demanding their pensions, and free this and that. I feel ashamed of being British. I wish I could leave.

Hahahaha! Yeah, because old people have not contributed to the economy all their working lives, have they? And older people aren't as wise as 18 year olds, are they?   :-D
« Last Edit: 2016-06-25 06:13:56 by DLPB »

Salk

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #55 on: 2016-06-25 11:53:14 »
Dan,

you know I am a great admirer and supporter of your work here so I won't discuss politics to avoid any kind of friction.

I just wanted to ask you, do you feel EU has been a wasted opportunity for Europe? What could have been done, in your opinion, to make it work better? I am genuinely sorry to see the UK go because it makes me think we are a little more distant again.

Best of luck. To us all.

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #56 on: 2016-06-25 14:46:04 »
Most people believe that the EU started with honourable intentions. It was originally put to the people in the 1970s and sold as a common market.  The idea was that we'd be joining a union of trade.  I happen to believe the population was hoodwinked and it was really all about a socialist empire of Europe all along. If they had told people their real aims from the word go, nobody would have joined it.  But that's what devious politicians do when it comes to an unpopular idea - they slowly introduce it bit by bit.  The slippery slope. Who would vote for a loss of sovereignty?

The young of today have grown up only knowing the EU.  They don't remember when we were self governed. They see the EU like I did when I was 16 - "We're one happy family of people. We are stronger together." ( I used to be Pro EU when I was 16-20. I also wanted to join the Euro.) This would be true if the EU had been really thought out from the beginning, but it wasn't.

Take the idea of free movement of people: sounds like a great idea - but it's only a great idea in a UTOPIAN SOCIETY, which does not exist.  In reality, allowing everyone in Europe to travel unrestricted to other European countries has simply been exploited by really bad people. This is because the EU is a leftist institution.  It has grand ideas, but never thinks further than what it dreams society to be.  The ordinary people suffer.

Another disaster has been the settlement of migrants.  Again, on paper, you'd think "Aw, they are fleeing persecution and need our help."  In reality, most of these "fleeing persecution" are economic migrants abusing the situation to gain entry into a better country.  The vast majority are Muslims who do not share Europe's beliefs on women or homosexuals, for example. In other words, it's another policy that has been devised because of what they want it to be rather than the reality on the ground.  Desire: Aren't we so liberal and tolerant and nice. Reality: Massive rise in crime and intolerance. Terrorists paradise. Massive lack of social cohesion.

Other examples of it getting in the way are tough laws against criminals. Criminals have relentlessly exploited the EU Court of Human Rights to escape justice. Desire: Protect the rights of people.  Reality: Exploited by criminals and greedy lawyers.

If that wasn't bad enough, the EU is a bloated and massively bureaucratic organization.  It stands to reason that so many countries governed under one authority will be harder to govern than each one looking after their own interests.  The issue is that by the time they finally get around to debating terrorism or issues regarding mass migration, it's already too late.  Far too late.

What I am trying to say is that the EU was always doomed to fail. Without a huge effort from the beginning to make sure that freedoms were not abused and that loopholes did not exist, it was always going to be a liberal's wet dream and end in total destruction. Even if Britain had voted remain, it would have eventually collapsed. The left and the right usually have the same goal in mind - but the left seem to be very handy at dreaming away big obstacles rather than tackling them or debating them.  The arrogance of the EU is astounding.  It has simply never listened, because it thinks it knows best.

The left's biggest problem is that it has crossed the finishing line before it has run the race. That arrogant twit (let's pretend that's a typo) Bob Geldof is another fool. He helped to raise millions of dollars for Africa in the hope of abolishing poverty - but he didn't use his tiny brain for one second to ask if the money would be misused.  It was. A massive amount of the money generated was used to buy weapons and made a situation worse.

You see the pattern here?  Crossing the finishing line without running the race. Not thinking about any of the huge problems that will arise from a good intention. This is played out on shows like Star Trek all the time - but there it's nearly always shown that good intentions lead to good outcomes. The real world does not work that way. The woolly minded left think based on feeling. They feel good giving money, therefore it is good. People like to feel good, and it leads them to do things without actually understanding a complicated situation for what it is.  Bob Geldof should be nowhere near any big political decision. He is simply not intelligent enough to grasp reality. He thinks up policy based on whether it makes HIM feel good.

Finally, do you think this silly clown (protesting for a second referendum) lives in an area of high poverty, high migrants?  I doubt it.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-25 21:05:38 by DLPB »

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #57 on: 2016-06-25 15:25:56 »
Or to put it even simpler... if the EU was really a good thing for ordinary people, why after 40 years did the majority vote to Leave?  It's had 42 years to get things right and make life better for people - and it's done the opposite.  It's useless.

Salk

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #58 on: 2016-06-25 19:19:42 »
I believe your arguments to be sensible, Dan.

And thanks for taking time to present them with such care.

I am not sure I'd say the left and the right have usually the same goal in mind but perhaps I misunderstood what you meant with it. I suppose you like to remind us that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. A waste of resources is indeed a pain to witness.

nfitc1

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #59 on: 2016-06-26 02:16:02 »
NFITC1, opposition to immigration is perfectly legitimate due to identitarian and economic problems. Despite media disinformation in that respect, most of the people that entered Europe in 2015 weren't even refugees. It's deceptive to constantly show images of children and old people when young men of fighting age who were surprisingly healthy were and probably still are the most represented demographic of people freely entering Europe and against the best wishes of native Europeans.

Oh, indeed. I had no delusions to the opposite. It's just that because OF THAT that the British said "enough" and voted to leave. That's not the only reason to leave, but it was the tipping point. Allowing free movement from France to Britain will allow all sorts of "legal Europeans" into the country. Oh wait, this is almost exactly what is going on between Mexico and the US except it here it's illegal.

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #60 on: 2016-06-26 04:31:36 »

Jenova's Witness

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #61 on: 2016-06-26 06:54:19 »
Oh, indeed. I had no delusions to the opposite. It's just that because OF THAT that the British said "enough" and voted to leave. That's not the only reason to leave, but it was the tipping point. Allowing free movement from France to Britain will allow all sorts of "legal Europeans" into the country. Oh wait, this is almost exactly what is going on between Mexico and the US except it here it's illegal.
What's wrong with illegals, goy?  Don't like not getting a raise in the past 20 years?  Here, let me import a few million h1b visa workers from China and India - and you know what, I'll pay you to train them to do your job!
« Last Edit: 2016-06-26 07:18:46 by B U I L D W A L L »

Jenova's Witness

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Roden

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #63 on: 2016-06-26 14:22:42 »
Even in the 1000000000-1 chance they even tried, there would be mass riots.  I'd be one of the participants.
Haha. I've liked reading DLPB's political posts when I come here, strange to see it on an FF forum - but whatever :)

This is definitely a victory for the "right" people, which personally makes me happy. The EU is corrupt as hell and would have us all fighting some BS US-led war against Russia alongside the Turks. The globalists will no doubt realize this will never happen now - I believe other EU citizens will have the same resolve as the Brits in voting out of that madness.

Now is a good time for Britain to reform not only education but also diplomatic ties with countries like Russia to make up for the BS in the past. I mean the US/UK tried to overthrow a modern islamic leader (Assad) and replace him with hardcore religious nuts, it's lunacy. We created a permanent enemy for no reason and I feel ashamed, and no-one is even talking about it.

None of the above is likely to happen though, it's not even on the agenda. Seems like a massive missed opportunity - Britain just doesn't have any real leaders. I hope I'm wrong though. But regardless of whether Britain swings to the left or the right from here (some leftist groups also voted out like Galloway's lot), the bigger picture looks good. Globalism has been stopped dead in it's tracks forcing the EU to cut back from expansion (or risk even more countries voting out), this leaves an opportunity for a growing Russia (building a huge trade corridor with China) to either politically, culturally or economically "take over" certain Eastern European countries - the end result being a Europe run more along the lines of Russian policy as the EU further decays/weakens.

Is that a good thing? IMO, yes. The obvious alliance and connections between right-wing groups and Russia is not as unholy an alliance as the left have with decadent Islam. And as the left is naturally weaker, they will surely fail unless World War III is launched (wouldn't put it past them).

Countries like Japan who are strongly allied to the US will be in some trouble too I think (unless Trump is elected, but I fear the US may be too far gone), so there will neeed to be some reform in their outlook of other countries there too. Definitely need to put the whole South Korea-Japan thing to bed.

Haven't seen such an event happen since 9/11. It's huge really in what it could mean for the world.

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #64 on: 2016-06-26 19:49:32 »
The nuclear weapon has ironically been the greatest thing for peace.  It has stopped many major war through the sheer fear of M.A.D. Unfortunately, there is another type of mad...  Islam.  And some of these crazy bastards don't fear destruction.  Iran is one.  Thanks to Obama, they are closer now than ever.  But Israel won't sit around waiting.  Believe it.

Roden

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #65 on: 2016-06-26 20:12:27 »
The nuclear weapon has ironically been the greatest thing for peace.  It has stopped many major war through the sheer fear of M.A.D. Unfortunately, there is another type of mad...  Islam.  And some of these crazy bastards don't fear destruction.  Iran is one.  Thanks to Obama, they are closer now than ever.  But Israel won't sit around waiting.  Believe it.
I think Iran could go either way right now, China just refused it entry to the SCO despite Russia's backing - probably because it could cause some tensions with the US. Might be only temporary though. Personally I don't think Iran would use nukes unless seriously provoked. They also helped fight ISIS. But who knows, they could be gearing up for something - Middle East is messed up.

I'm not sure why my title says "Crazy poster" now. Haha, but I assure you I'm not :P (Just kidding, I know its part of ranking system)

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #66 on: 2016-06-26 21:02:08 »
Fighting IS doesn't really mean much when you read into Islam...  basically all of its divisions are bad.  And many of them argue on the caliphate.  They all believe IN a caliphate, the question to them is who is the true bannerman. 

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #67 on: 2016-06-26 23:25:36 »
Fighting IS doesn't really mean much when you read into Islam...  basically all of its divisions are bad.  And many of them argue on the caliphate.  They all believe IN a caliphate, the question to them is who is the true bannerman. 

No, they don't.  Where are you getting your information from, Israelis?

There are 3 major divisions of Islam, and various non-Islamic sects (they aren't considered Muslims by anyone except themselves, and sometimes not even then).

Sunni are the expansionists.  They want a global caliphate.  They are something like 85% of all Muslims.  Notable countries/regions include Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Chechnya, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Islamic State, most of North Africa, Malaysia, and Indonesia.  In other words, what you usually hear when you find out the ethnic group of a terrorist.  These are the retards you see yelling "Allahu Ackbar!" in videos because they believe that god guides the paths of their bullets (hence their inability to aim).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam

Shia are the second major division.  They pretty much want to be left alone to hang their gays and stone adulterers in their own countries.  They are about 11% of all Muslims (and of course Sunni and Shia don't consider one another Muslims, and hate each other).  Notable countries include Iran, Assad's Syria, and ethnic enclaves in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon.  As long as you don't fight them, don't let them into your country, and mind their laws in their countries you will never have an issue with them.  These people are currently fighting Islamic State.  There are Christian and Yazidi units in their militias in Lebanon and in Syria.  Christians in Lebanon prefer their militias and paramilitary units over those of Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Islam

The third division - the Ibadi - exist only in Oman.  They are so mild-mannered that I didn't even know they existed until about a year ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibadi

Other weirdos include the Druze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze) and the Yazidi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis).  They are mostly harmless.

Jews are very closely related to Palestinians, and Palestinians have screwed over every community that tried to help them.  Don't believe anything any of these paranoid middle-eastern tribes say about one another until you actually research it yourself.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-26 23:28:35 by B U I L D W A L L »

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #68 on: 2016-06-26 23:35:44 »
No, I'm getting my information from the Koran, historians like Robert Spencer, Hamas, Saudi Arabia and a dozen more. Islam is and has always been backward.  It's leader, Muhammad, was a war mongering conquerer - something that isn't disputed by the Koran, Hadith, or historians.

It isn't going to change the fact that Muhammad killed people, had child brides, said the things he did, and conquered Mecca.

Iran wants a caliphate. So does Hamas. So does Saudi. So does IS.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-26 23:38:52 by DLPB »

Jenova's Witness

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #69 on: 2016-06-27 01:08:00 »
No, I'm getting my information from the Koran, historians like Robert Spencer, Hamas, Saudi Arabia and a dozen more. Islam is and has always been backward.  It's leader, Muhammad, was a war mongering conquerer - something that isn't disputed by the Koran, Hadith, or historians.

It isn't going to change the fact that Muhammad killed people, had child brides, said the things he did, and conquered Mecca.
It's debatable if he even existed.  Therefore it all comes down to what the specific books and religious/clerical traditions say.

Sunni books and traditions explicitly say that they must go out and convert the unbelievers, either by guile or by war.  There is no compromise for this.  Therefore, Sunni are on average complete shitheads.

Shia books and traditions basically say to stay put, protect your people and your lands, stay faithful, and wait for the 12th Imam to appear.

Iran wants a caliphate. So does Hamas. So does Saudi. So does IS.
Iran IS a caliphate - a Shia caliphate.  What you see in Iran is the entirety of their religious practice, which basically amounts to doing whatever the fuck they want within the borders of their nations/enclaves, protecting other Shia from Sunni or Israel, and cooperating with people of other religions without trying to convert them.

Compare Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah to Islamic State, which is a Sunni organization that considers itself a Sunni caliphate.

Here's something else: Pakistan has nukes.  Pakistan is a Sunni state.  Pakistan literally helps the Taliban and protected Osama Bin Laden.  Yet you don't see Pakistan all over the news, but you do see Iran.  Could it be because Iran threatens Israel's encroachment on Lebanese and Syrian soil?  Hmmm, I wonder!

Literally the only reason we've got a hamster up our collective asses about Iran is because Israel doesn't like them.  I don't give a fuck about that.  Israel is a big boy; Israel can take care of it's own messes.

What I don't understand is why you defend Israel when Israel has threatened multiple times to nuke capitals of European nations if we don't help them.  Would you help China if China threatened to nuke our ethnic homelands?  No?  Then why are you such a cuckold over Israel?  Israel doesn't give a flying fuck about you, Israelis have stolen state secrets from the USA numerous times, Israelis gave the secrets of the nuclear bomb to the Soviets.

Are you so house-broken by progressives that whenever you would have a patriotic impulse to protect your own people, you instead feel patriotism over Israel?

According to Haaretz - surely the most anti-semetic news source on Earth - Christians are routinely spat on by right-wing Ultra Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem.
http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

The first principle of being right-wing is to preserve your own people and defend your homeland.  Technically, this means that right-wingers in one country would get along great with left-wingers in another country who want to bring them in, at least until the right-wingers are a majority.  That's the mistake that left-wingers make with Muslims.

Just because someone is right wing doesn't automatically make them an ally, or even a friend.  They must also be part of your group, either ethnic or religious.  Thus Israel is not our ally, but neither is Iran.  That doesn't mean that we should hate them; it means we shouldn't interfere with their business nor should they interfere with ours.

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #70 on: 2016-06-27 12:49:00 »
IS isn't a caliphate.  It desires to be one and to own enough land / control to be a legitimate one. Saudi doesn't recognize IS as a true caliphate. That's the thing - that's why some of the crazy lunatic countries like Saudi and Iran will fight IS - despite agreeing with their overall message. IS undermine their authority.

Also, while I agree Judaism and all religions are hardly bastions of open mindedness - they aren't blowing people up all over the world or using nuclear weapons, despite having them.  I wouldn't trust Iran with a popsicle. Israel has shown amazing restraint.  If you were a people constantly threatened on all sides by Islamic aggression - had rockets routinely fired at your people - and had countries openly calling for your very destruction - how would you behave? 

Israel and Jews are not the problem.  Islam is.

Calling me a progressive is a bit silly, since I am constantly at the opposite end of the political spectrum from them.  The BBC, for example, is clearly anti Israel.  So is Obama and the current American administration. I am not sure why the Jews keep getting brought up when Islam is the religion killing and slaughtering - all over the world.  Why are we even debating the Jews in this thread?  They are not responsible for IS or suicide bombers or Muhammad or the Koran.

Also, if it's the conspiracy theory that Jews enjoy spreading Islamic destruction, then I would just point out that no true Jewish person would want their own destruction - because Islam and Islamic doctrine is vehemently opposed to them.  That's why they are under attack from all sides in the Middle East. The idea that Jews are behind the scenes plotting to help Muslims is far fetched, to say the least.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-27 13:13:04 by DLPB »

Tekkie.X

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #71 on: 2016-06-27 19:18:16 »
Meanwhile people had been worried that Brexit would mean the end of the Euromillions lottery. It won't.

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #72 on: 2016-06-28 00:32:01 »
IS isn't a caliphate.  It desires to be one and to own enough land / control to be a legitimate one. Saudi doesn't recognize IS as a true caliphate. That's the thing - that's why some of the crazy lunatic countries like Saudi and Iran will fight IS - despite agreeing with their overall message. IS undermine their authority.
DLPB, the one true authority on Islam who couldn't tell the difference between Sunni and Shia.  You're acting like those liberals who are 100% authorities on Islam, even more so than actual Muslims themselves who kill Europeans in the name of Islam.

If IS declares that they are a caliphate, I'm inclined to believe them.  If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it acts like a duck, and if other ducks around the world treat it as if it is a duck - then it's probably a duck.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/06/abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-isis
Quote
Baghdadi was born Ibrahim Awad al-Badari in 1971 near Samarra, a city 50 miles north of Baghdad. He took a master's degree and a PhD in Islamic studies at the University of Islamic Sciences in the Baghdad suburb of Adhamiya. When the US invaded Iraq in March 2003, the pious Baghdadi was still studying and was not thought to be connected to either al-Qaida or its local offshoot in the early years of resistance.

http://news.siteintelgroup.com/blog/index.php/entry/226-the-story-behind-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi
Quote
A professor, teacher, former educator, recognized preacher, and a graduate of the Islamic University in Baghdad, where he finished his academic studies (BA, MA and PhD). He is known as a preacher and a person of knowledge in Islamic culture, Shariah knowledge, and jurisprudence, and possessing vast knowledge of history and lineage. He had extensive relationships and a clear influence on members of his tribe in Diyala and Samarra, to the extent that they declared, by their own free will and their total certainty, their pledge allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and its first emir, Abu Omar al-Baghdadi al-Qurashi. They pledged allegiance to the Emir and his State when it was first created and appeared on the jihadi battlefield in Iraq in the official declaration of the State in the last ten days of Ramadan 2006. Afterwards, Dr. Ibrahim Awwad was recognized as one of the most prominent figures of Salafist Jihadism and its most recognized proponent in Diyala and in the city of Samarra through the Mosque of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, may Allah have mercy on him.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28560449
Quote
Turki al-Binali's tract continued by highlighting that prior to the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, Baghdadi received his PhD from the Islamic University of Baghdad, with a focus on Islamic culture, history, sharia, and jurisprudence.

Do you have a PhD in Islamic Studies?  Technically you've lived your entire life in the Caliphate of Albion, but he lived in Iraq and later Syria his entire life.  He's a little closer to the source of Islam than even your average Londonian.

Besides that, Saudi Arabia is doing a shit job of fighting IS:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html



Also, while I agree Judaism and all religions are hardly bastions of open mindedness - they aren't blowing people up all over the world or using nuclear weapons, despite having them.  I wouldn't trust Iran with a popsicle. Israel has shown amazing restraint.  If you were a people constantly threatened on all sides by Islamic aggression - had rockets routinely fired at your people - and had countries openly calling for your very destruction - how would you behave? 
Well I wouldn't invade my Shia neighbors - as Israel did in 1978 and 1982 - and treat them so bad that they literally form a Shia militia to defend themselves.  You'd think that the Israelis (who nominally invaded to oust the PLO) would be smart enough to work with a people who were glad to be out from under the boot of the PLO. 

Considering that the Israeli policy in the event of a military defeat is to launch nuclear weapons - combined with their non-stop militancy against their neighbors - it can hardly be said that Israel is a rational actor in the middle east.



Israel and Jews are not the problem.  Islam is.
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/05/16/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
http://www.businessinsider.com/israeli-spying-on-us-has-reached-terrifying-levels-2014-5
https://theintercept.com/2015/03/25/netanyahus-spying-denial-directly-contradicted-secret-nsa-documents/
http://www.merip.org/mer/mer138/israeli-spies-us
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg



Calling me a progressive is a bit silly, since I am constantly at the opposite end of the political spectrum from them.  The BBC, for example, is clearly anti Israel.  So is Obama and the current American administration. I am not sure why the Jews keep getting brought up when Islam is the religion killing and slaughtering - all over the world.  Why are we even debating the Jews in this thread?  They are not responsible for IS or suicide bombers or Muhammad or the Koran.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Eritrean-migrants-resettled-from-Israel-to-Sweden-337414
^Israel airlifts illegals from Eritrea (a Muslim north African country) to Sweden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ
^Barbara Spectre wants to teach Europeans how to be multicultural.

Without Jewish people like Barbara Spectre, there wouldn't be as many Muslim invaders in Europe.  Other than that, there are myriad examples of Jewish people being involved in subversive activities that target Europeans, for whatever reason.  I only use sources that are Israeli publications or books that are written by Jewish people, to avoid conspiracy theories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
^A foiled Israeli false flag operation that was intended to kill Western tourists in Egypt and blame this on Muslims.

http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38
Quote
Extending the subversive thesis, Jewish involvement in the X-rated industry can be seen as a proverbial two fingers to the entire WASP establishment in America. Some porn stars viewed themselves as frontline fighters in the spiritual battle between Christian America and secular humanism. According to Ford, Jewish X-rated actors often brag about their ‘joy in being anarchic, sexual gadflies to the puritanical beast’. Jewish involvement in porn, by this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority: they are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion. Astyr remembers having ‘to run or fight for it in grammar school because I was a Jew. It could very well be that part of my porn career is an “up yours” to these people’. Al Goldstein, the publisher of Screw, said (on lukeford.net), ‘The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.’ Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream (and is no doubt consumed by those very same WASPs), its subversive character becomes more charged. Porn is no longer of the ‘what the Butler saw’ voyeuristic type; instead, it is driven to new extremes of portrayal that stretch the boundaries of the porn aesthetic. As new sexual positions are portrayed, the desire to shock (as well as entertain) seems clear.

https://archive.org/details/AProgramForJewsAndHumanity
^Note that this was literally written by a Jewish Rabbi.
Quote
A Program for Jews and Humanity by Rabbi Harry Waton published by Committee for the Preservation of the Jews, New York City: Astoria Press, 1939.

This book declared that Jews will inherit the entire earth through the control and spread of Communism.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
Quote
We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish
A Jewish publication notes that many member of the first Soviet government (who were responsible for the deaths of millions more than died in the Holocaust) where Jewish.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/books/review/the-chosen-getting-in.html
A Jewish man admits that Jewish people have "taken over" academia.



Also, if it's the conspiracy theory that Jews enjoy spreading Islamic destruction, then I would just point out that no true Jewish person would want their own destruction - because Islam and Islamic doctrine is vehemently opposed to them.  That's why they are under attack from all sides in the Middle East. The idea that Jews are behind the scenes plotting to help Muslims is far fetched, to say the least.
1. You're not Jewish (are you?) so you can't rightly say what a true Jewish person would or would not believe or do.
2. The issue isn't that Israel helps Islamic State.  The issue is that Israel prefers them (according to one of their defense ministers) over Iran.  The Israeli airstrikes on Assad's forces clearly demonstrate their stated preference.  I don't know about you, but I call airstrikes assistance.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4755215,00.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/19/israeli-defense-minister-if-i-had-to-choose-between-iran-and-isis-id-choose-isis/
http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-i-would-prefer-islamic-state-to-iran-in-syria/

Israel is as much a problem as Muslims.  They should both be deported to their homelands, so they can live in peace there (or not) and we can live in peace in our nations.

Simple fix: eliminate dual citizenship.  Since all Jewish people are granted right of return by Israel, we could buy their assets and send them home.  Israel definitely needs all the people it can get and would welcome the people it needs for defense, labor, and scientific research.

More than that, it seems that Jewish people are not comfortable in mono-ethnic and mono-religious societies.  This is unfortunate, but if they have a problem with us then they are the ones who need to change.  They have killed as many of us as we have of them, as demonstrated by the Holodomor and other Soviet atrocities, so the have no moral standing to cry about the Holocaust when we attempt to hold them to the same standards we hold ourselves.  They need us more than we need them, as Barbara Spectre demonstrates when she "teaches us to be multicultural" by helping millions of Muslims to come to our lands and rape our sisters and daughters, abuse our benefits programs, and terrorize us with murder and violence (and the billions of dollars in assistance we give to Israel every year while our own infrastructure falls apart and our people sit idle).

tl;dr

If you are a Muslim or Jewish person, then you have to go back.

DLPB_

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #73 on: 2016-06-28 00:55:29 »
All that changes absolutely nothing of what I said. 1000 Links won't.  Islam is absolutely and totally opposed to Judaism and the Jewish people.  That's a stonewall fact.  It is an historical fact and verified very well by the Hadith and the Koran. Palestine [Hamas] is currently at war with Israel - mostly because Israel is Jewish.  A Jewish person is not going to work behind the scenes to promote a religion or ideology that wants to see it destroyed. Iran, and Israel's neighbours, have consistently called for the state of Israel to be wiped off the map.

Anti Semitic conspiracy theories are just that: Anti Semitic conspiracy theories.

I am not concerned with Judaism.  I'll start worrying about it when it has bombs strapped to it or it is running amok with AK 47s in multiple countries or flying planes into buildings.

Israel is the only real democratic country in the Middle East. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_the_Middle_East#Measures_of_Democracy

Perhaps concentrate your efforts on the fact that it is legal in around 10 Islamic countries to kill people for being homosexual - and many more where basic freedom is denied.  Talk of Jews is a nonsense that needs to stop. I will go no further on that subject.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-28 03:43:16 by DLPB »

Roden

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #74 on: 2016-06-28 15:09:20 »


Meanwhile, very interesting development between Turkey, Israel and Russia. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.727526 Turkey has formally apologised to Russia (never saw that coming) and formalized a "reconcilation pact" with Israel. Makes me wonder if Turkey will still go ahead and join the EU.