Author Topic: That's it  (Read 53680 times)

Jari

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That's it
« on: 2010-03-31 00:43:10 »
I've just had enough of all of this shit.

I'm tired of being the middleman, some kind of fucking last, best hope for humanity who single-handedly is supposed to keep this forum clean of trolls, while being constantly second guessed by the owner of the forums, and taking shit from both directions.

Tired of banning the same knuckle dragger three times a day, because the owner can't get his thumb out of his arse and upgrade to a forum software that would actually make it possible to use registration that would check for proxied users.

Tired of being talked down by the owner who even has to ask me what is going on in his own forums. Being talked down after I banned a person who I suspect to be most clever social hacker in the history of these forums. Because it looks bad. Well, fucking Jebus Christ, life sometimes looks bad. I'm no Doctor Strange - I can't just magic it to make it look nice and fluffy.

Tired of seeing him reverse his opinion and actually agree with me and my proof, after - you know - looking at the fucking thing.

But last night certainly took the cake.

First I get gagged and dragged from our own IRC channel into a nice little chat with Esper.Net server OPs. Because you see, I have stolen credit card information and intimidated people. That was settled fairly quickly when the OPs realized that the former was not even theoretically possible, and for the latter; the person whom I so intimidated told me that she wanted me to be her friend, just before saying goodbye.

Oh, but it gets better.

Then I spent an hour consoling the very same person who got me there, in the first place - after explaining that no, we do not have her credit card information, we do not want it, and we couldn't even in theory get it. Yes, we had collected the personal information we had by using the email address given by the person herself, Google and Peoplesearch. Then I got offered a forum of my own. And money. Which was kinda creepy. I'm not for sale. I keep telling her that I'm not angry at her, I do not intend to fight her, no - we can't blame the ban on SaiNt either, no - I have never lifted a ban in my life and no - I'm not lifting her ban either, yes - I intend to keep my word and not let people make fun of her, yes - I do feel really, really sorry for banning her, if her story is true - but I just don't believe it to be. All the while being nice to her, because she is obviously very upset. And of course; all this time I suspect I'm being played - quite brilliantly, too.

That's not the best of it.

Then I spent probably quite a bit more time, reading a novel length musings of the forum owner, who had reversed his opinion, yet again!

Yes, dude, I know she could be telling the truth. It would require a massive leap of faith to believe she was, and if I start taking those, I might just as well assume that you are not who you say are, either. Sure, I can check who the domain is registered to. Sure, I can check where my chat connections are going to. Sure, I have even photographic evidence of your ties to your claimed name. But do I have evidence that will prove beyond any doubt that the person talking to me is the person he claims to be? Not really. Or in other words; Hi there, Mr Keanu Reeves, nice forums you got. For all I know, that could be true as well. Do I consider it likely to be true? Not at all, just like I do not consider Mako's story likely to be true.

And why had he changed his mind? Well, because banning her would make him look bad, like a villain. He'd much prefer to be a hero, like the ones in movies. D00d, movies have heroes for a reason; they are fiction. The heroes are written to be heroes. Real life does not work like that. Besides, what is this place anyway, a modding community, or your personal shrine to how great one Qhimm is? This is not about looking good, nor is this about moral high-ground; this is about keeping the forums usable. We are not a court of law; if we make a mistake and ban a wrong people - big deal, people will move on. People do not have some kind of God given right to be here.

Just like it seems that we should have public trials for trolls. Because again, that would not make us look bad, nor would it turn the public opinion against us. Oh, for fuck's sake. What is this? A beauty contest? Having public trial will take ages, lots of effort, and it will not help a bit with the public opinion. Because people will still be divided; you seem to forget that even the trolliest of trolls do know how to manipulate people. Not only would they be divided, but a rift would be created between the people who voted yes, and the people who voted no. They'd think that the other side was wrong, and the losing side would be bitter - bitter against the other half of the forum. As long as the banning decisions are made by admins or single admin, people can take their hate and bitterness and aim it all at him. Most adults I know are capable of handling "I HAET U SO!!!!" on the Intertubes.

No, the people do not come here to bask in the warm glow of your greatness, or in the soft cuddliness of administration which always has the moral high-ground and is always right. They come here because our milkshake brings everyone to the yard; even the trolls who get ridiculed to high heaven, bounce back like rubber balls - just because we have the stuff they want.

Besides, apparently we had received a lot of complaints that we ban too many people. Only problem was that it turned out we had banned exactly ONE real person during my stay as admin. Few were spambots, dozen or two were various alters for Seifer and Hermoor. Would it be too much to ask that owner of the forum would either keep himself informed, or at least take a look at the ban list - I mean, it's visible right there, in the admin panel - before even bothering to complain to me? Apparently it would. This happened just bit before Mako's banning, btw. Surely not social hacking at all. Just like masteraden didn't try to manipulate the admins - he just did it in a very crude way.

This is exactly the shit I've had enough of. Seifer, Hermoor, masteraden; do not make a mistake. I can ban you all day long, again and again, without getting a feeling of any kind out of it.

I have practically saved your forums twice thus far. I've been there when you needed someone to talk to. You know why I have problems trusting people - you better than most people here. Yet I can't seem to trust you to make up your mind about a simple banning, nor can I trust you to trust me, or my judgment, regardless of what I have done for these forums. I get second guessed, I get talked down.

Frankly, have it your way, then. Go find someone who is willing to administrate exactly like you want. I think you'll end up with a flunky who will require you yourself to administrate by proxy, so to speak. Most people competent enough to administrate do not seem to be willing to do so, unless they are given some degree of freedom to do what they want, the way they like to do it. Might I suggest MrAdults, perhaps? He certainly is sanctimonious enough to at least think he has the moral high-ground - just about all the time, actually. He might suit your tastes quite well. Or perhaps Seifer, he sure thinks he is always right - from his point of view he does have the moral high-ground - every time, everywhere, all the time.

Or administrate yourself. These are your forums, after all. Maybe it would do you good to get at least somewhat reacquainted with them, so that at least you didn't have to trust word of mouth to know what is going on.



Anyway, I'm going to make this real easy for you.

First, I'll lift Mako's ban. There. You are a hero now, you saved a damsel in distress. Bask in the glory of righteousness, it's your time now dude, enjoy it.

I'd assume that she's happy too, that's what she wanted, after all. Not to mention that masteraden most certainly is happy - he or she or whatever finally managed to play you to the point where you made me quit. Well played, masteraden, good game. I did quite enjoy it, actually.

Then I'll lift all the bans Seifer and Hermoor have.

Let's see you deal with them. Set up as many public trials you want. That will surely fix the situation. Maybe you'll even switch to phpBB3 now that you have to actually do something about it, yourself. Have at it, boys. Don't worry, Qhimm does not have balls to ban you.

Then I'll delete my own account, assuming the forum software lets me do so. Not quite sure, never tried if SMF lets admins to delete their own accounts. If not, I just won't come here. Simple as that. :)



sl1982

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Re: That's it
« Reply #1 on: 2010-03-31 00:52:34 »
Uh oh. It seems the end is nigh. Well jari I do hope you stick around to some extent, I do enjoy the conversations we have on the irc. Maybe PM me with your MSN if you have one. As for the whole situation I dont know enough to make an intelligent comment so I will leave it alone.

Hellbringer616

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Re: That's it
« Reply #2 on: 2010-03-31 00:54:15 »
I don't know if it will matter, or if you will read this.

But i for one am sorry to hear you're leaving. I enjoyed you being around, Made me laugh, and made the forums a fun place. You made me two backgrounds on request for no cost and out of kindness.

You saved our forum many times from the clutches of trolls who have nothing better to do. I hope the forum will survive without you.

Have a great life my friend. :) (if i may call you that)

Colonel Ramsay

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Re: That's it
« Reply #3 on: 2010-03-31 01:07:23 »
Well I don't respond directly to the person above anymore and I made that my policy after a few things happened to me recently that changed a lot of how I behave, although I still put my point across and I a, not going to apologise for that.

I will say that the admin here (not qhimm, who should really never have put this other guy in charge) has caused far more problems for this place than he claims to have fixed.  He has banned and taken delight in the power it gives him.  He has actually led decent modders to the door and laughed as he kicked them out (see mr. adults).  He has ridiculed people time and again and trolled these boards to a level I have never seen in my life.  I don't even know what to make of the fact he was made an admin in the first place.  

I truly find some of what happens on this forum a complete mystery.  The admin here has provoked trouble and revelled in it, he has been the biggest thorn in the side of this forum.  If we take hermoor who has deliberately trolled these forums to an unprescedented level, one can almost understand it and see how it happens when an admin, who is in charge of keeping order, sets up a bullying school playground and makes ridiculous threats that no longer interest me in the slightest.  I consider this admin a closed chapter in  a nasty book and I hope Qhimm sees the wisdom in kicking this guy right off the forum, even if I have to go with him.

This forum needs 3 decent moderators who will not be party to ridiculous levels of abuse and trolling.  I would say mr. adults or koral, but they left and who can blame them?  You will have to find 3 decent people here who can mod properly.  I think obesebear is a good candidate as much as I have disagreed with him in the past.  If you care about your forum Qhimm then sort it out and simply appoint 3+ people who can do the job properly.   There are also a few members here who revel in the same so called "lulz" and that hs to stop.   There is such thing as morality and decency, and there is such thing as a nice community that doesn't feel the need to get off on seeing another person get worked up.

I am not going to respond to accusations aimed at me, I will say that I have been telling hermoor for weeks to stop it and just do as I do, ignore it and laugh at it.  That is something I couldn't do before when I took this admin seriously.  The only thing that I come here for is NOT to take -but to give.  I come here because I am passionate about FF7 and modding to make it "better".  I have made some poor choices in the past and risen to the bait of an idiot like an idiot.  I was half to blame and perhaps even slightly more at times.  The only thing suffering around here is this forum and the community.  I have been saying for weeks that this kind of nonsense would only end in severe problems, and it has and will continue to the longer this out of control admin is allowed to do as he pleases.

But I don't like power freaks or bullies, I don't like weirdo's and warped people who take delight in other people's suffering and this admin seems to fit all of this criteria.  I was in 2 minds whether to post this but I may as well give my 2 cents worth, I usually do.  Frankly this is the past and this admin needs to move on with his life.  I have, and I am sick of my past being some sort of whip to knock me at any opportunity.  I will also add that the admin here had no chance of beating me or making me go away with the dispicable tactics he deployed, I told him that a while ago and now he has found out.

Dan.

« Last Edit: 2010-03-31 01:21:30 by Colonel Ramsay »

guitar_dudester91

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Re: That's it
« Reply #4 on: 2010-03-31 01:08:39 »
Jari, I have to say I would rather see this forum being spammed to hell then see you leave. You are the forum, and pretty much made some of it what it is. I really wish you weren't leaving, and I understand your point of view. Goodbye dear sir.

titeguy3

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Re: That's it
« Reply #5 on: 2010-03-31 01:12:17 »
I do hope you'll stick around or check back in here even if only for the lulz or to express your opinion to a group of existentially questionable people of above-average-on-average intelligence, conceited or hypocritical as some of them may tend to be.

At any rate, a forum as productive as this one needs some proper moderation to prevent things from getting out of hand and productive members from becoming upset and leaving. Without you around, we're going to be short-handed, unless (the active moderators I can think of off the top of my head) SL, Timu, and halkun (and perhaps even Qhimm himself, he seems to be posting more often these days than I'm used to) can pick up the slack.

Here's to hoping that in the future, the mods already developed here will be seen as in their infancy, and Qhimm will be going strong.
« Last Edit: 2010-03-31 01:14:31 by titeguy3 »

Hellbringer616

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Re: That's it
« Reply #6 on: 2010-03-31 01:14:43 »
Obesebear, sl1982, and Timu Sumisu would be good mods/admins, Of course Halkun, But he's already a mod, But he'd be a good admin i think.

idl12

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Re: That's it
« Reply #7 on: 2010-03-31 01:15:51 »
Wow, I sure do see these things happening a lot recently.....Anyway, I may not know Jari as well as everyone else here but in the little time i've been here at qhimm, I've really enjoyed his presence and in all the forums i've ever been to, he's the best damn admin i ever came across.I'm really surprised this happened, but i guess this is one of those things that remind us of how life can be. Regardless, i'm sure he had his reasons for this decisions and i wish him the best of luck.

Opine

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Re: That's it
« Reply #8 on: 2010-03-31 01:20:41 »
I can't imagine him being gone...

obesebear

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Re: That's it
« Reply #9 on: 2010-03-31 01:20:47 »
Well, Jari, I know in the past you have left only to return again later.  I hope that to be the case again this time as well.  
You being made admin was a good thing, we need one around here, and still do.  One moderator isn't nearly enough, though I'm sure Halkun does the best he can.   I think you were just in charge of too much for too long.  I may not agree with how you handled certain things, but I feel you definitely did a good job.  I for one will definitely miss your personality around here.

Anyways, long story short, I do hope we see you back here at some point again... back at 0 posts :)

Prince Lex

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Re: That's it
« Reply #10 on: 2010-03-31 01:33:36 »
I'm not content to just lying down and letting this happen. Nor am I the kind of person that loses his head easily. Having said that, GET YOUR ASS BACK HERE NOW!

EDIT: And Seifer, I wasn't going to reply - and part of me hopes you ignore this, because I don't want to start an unresolvable war again. I'm posting this to clear a few things up, and those that were there at the time can back me up on this.

He wasn't/isn't a troll. The only person at that time that trolled was you. You hurt a lot of people and had a really bad attitude. If you're really going to be sticking around I can only hope that aloof aura goes away fast. Best - admin - ever. RIP. And no wonder.
« Last Edit: 2010-03-31 01:51:23 by Prince Cloud »

guitar_dudester91

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Re: That's it
« Reply #11 on: 2010-03-31 01:48:03 »
I second that.

Chocobo_Girl

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Re: That's it
« Reply #12 on: 2010-03-31 01:54:46 »
Well if we're going to have to deal with un-moderated trolls for the time being, I would suggest simply ignoring him. I'm serious. He can't argue with us if we're not bringing up any arguments for him. The best we can do is ignore him, know he's wrong and just leave it at that. No feeding the trolls.

Prince Lex

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Re: That's it
« Reply #13 on: 2010-03-31 01:58:38 »
Well if we're going to have to deal with un-moderated trolls for the time being, I would suggest simply ignoring him. I'm serious. He can't argue with us if we're not bringing up any arguments for him. The best we can do is ignore him, know he's wrong and just leave it at that. No feeding the trolls.

I agree. I also think you'd have a different opinion had you been here when this crap kicked off in the first place - not that I'm slating you. I think everyone should take your advice and ignore all posts from the members that aren't supposed to be here.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: That's it
« Reply #14 on: 2010-03-31 02:14:35 »
Early April fools day joke?
I hope so.

I miss your jest Jari.

Prince Lex

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Re: That's it
« Reply #15 on: 2010-03-31 02:16:14 »
You know, I hadn't even thought about that... hmm... I can only pray.

guitar_dudester91

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Re: That's it
« Reply #16 on: 2010-03-31 02:18:33 »
Ha well for the time being I'll take that advice. I hope its all a joke.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: That's it
« Reply #17 on: 2010-03-31 02:25:08 »
One moderator isn't nearly enough, though I'm sure Halkun does the best he can.

The situation is even worse than that. Halkun is only a moderator in certain forums; forums were most of the sh*tposting doesn't happen. I also remember him saying he doesn't have a banhammer either. Essentially, we have no active moderators across the whole of these forums and we have no moderators in General and Completely Unrelated, which is were they are needed most. Expect to see spam threads stay up for weeks on end if we're lucky.

The situation will be like it was this time last year, but with a few differences:

Unlike this time last year, we have a crazed, teenage, wannabe Viking furry who wishes death on the forums and several of its members (including yours truly).

We have the Mako situation (I'm not going to get into that, but it's certainly something that could be troublesome).

And, unlike last year, we don't have Jari. Even when he has no banhammer, he has "ways" of getting people to leave.

Unless the people with global moderation and admin powers become more active, or new global mods/admins are made, or Jari comes back very quickly, we may have some troublesome times ahead for a while.

sl1982

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Re: That's it
« Reply #18 on: 2010-03-31 02:27:43 »
I do hope you'll stick around or check back in here even if only for the lulz or to express your opinion to a group of existentially questionable people of above-average-on-average intelligence, conceited or hypocritical as some of them may tend to be.

At any rate, a forum as productive as this one needs some proper moderation to prevent things from getting out of hand and productive members from becoming upset and leaving. Without you around, we're going to be short-handed, unless (the active moderators I can think of off the top of my head) SL, Timu, and halkun (and perhaps even Qhimm himself, he seems to be posting more often these days than I'm used to) can pick up the slack.

Here's to hoping that in the future, the mods already developed here will be seen as in their infancy, and Qhimm will be going strong.

Timu and I are only mods of our own little corner of Qhimm. We have no authority over anything else.

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: That's it
« Reply #19 on: 2010-03-31 02:30:58 »
Is this what it felt like for Harry Potter when Dumbledore died?

In any case, I very highly doubt that this is an April Fools thing.

Be prepared, everyone.  The dawn of Armageddon approaches...

guitar_dudester91

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Re: That's it
« Reply #20 on: 2010-03-31 02:36:16 »
I think I'd like Qhimm to step in here and clear things up. In my opinion - which is probably not worth anyone's time, mind you - it's his forum. I know he's a busy guy, we all are. But something this monumental needs an answer. Unless I'm not catching some things? I've followed the whole mako ordeal, and lived through Sefer and Hermoor. Can we be enlightened?

drfeelgud88

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Re: That's it
« Reply #21 on: 2010-03-31 02:38:14 »
Not to be a douche, but it isn't nice to assume this is a joke. He is hurt/played and some are assuming it's an April Fools thing. I know you guys are saying that because you want him back and I wouldn't see why not but you shouldn't go about thinking this is a joke. Anyways, Jari, I recall you once insulting me and at the time, it kinda upset me, but I'm over it. Anywho you were the law around here; haven't seen Halkun post or anything like that in such a long time. Well, only time will tell and if you decide to come back, that's awesome. Anyways for the time being, take care of yourself and those pictures you have taken are really well!

PS: By the way, thank you for the Rubicks Cube wallpaper. That was a nice thing of you to do for me.  :)

Chocobo_Girl

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Re: That's it
« Reply #22 on: 2010-03-31 02:38:59 »
That would be going too far for an April Fool's joke. Causing confusion and commotion in a forum for the lulz? That ain't right. Believe me, this is real.

As for having no moderators, I believe (or hope) that Qhimm does something about it *fast*. Either he finds someone to be a moderator or he takes care of things himself (tho apparently he's way too busy, so I'd much prefer the first option).

guitar_dudester91

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Re: That's it
« Reply #23 on: 2010-03-31 02:41:31 »
We're not assuming - only utterly dumbfounded that it has come to this. So please forgive for dealing with it that way. We know that isn't it, but hey, it gave us a little hope. Jari was the sheriff, and a good one. We kinda need him back, he is a class-a guy.

Prince Lex

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Re: That's it
« Reply #24 on: 2010-03-31 02:43:42 »
No ones assuming it's a joke. We're HOPING it's a joke.