Author Topic: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ  (Read 3017 times)

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #25 on: 2016-04-16 02:21:34 »
Quote
Normal Battle #4:  11/64 Chance       
     Row 1: 2x Skeeskee                 
     Row 2: 1x Griffin                     

Skeeskees = 222
Griffins = 260
golems = 300
desert sahagins = 230

Normal 1: 666
Normal 2: 260
Normal 3: 300
Normal 4: 660
Normal 5: 690
Normal 6: 460
Back Attack 1: 460
Back Attack 2: 666
Side: 666
Pincer: 460

This should be 704  :P

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #26 on: 2016-04-16 13:40:58 »
Quote
( 1 - (PEMr / 256) ) *   //special formation check

With a mastered Pre-emp at 85, this should be 0.66796875

You have the value 0.3359375, which is ( 1 - ((255 - PEMr) / 256) )

Reads other posts..... (255/3=85). This is why I'm getting confused. It's not ( 1 - ((255 - PEMr) / 256) ) at all, it's still ( 1 - (PEMr / 256) ), however....

Quote
The PEMr is doubled when considering if there will be a special battle like this. Normally there would be a 1/16th chance that it won't even be considered. With a higher PEMr there's a greater chance (as high as 170 / 256 or 66.4%) they will be skipped.
Sorry, could you possibly clarify for me exactly when the PemR is doubled? I'm working it into my calculator; you can set the PEMr to 16 by default to give you normal averages, and then increase it to see if equipping the Pre-Emp Materia helps your averages or not. Before I can really input it into the calc, I need to be 100% sure of it. With PEMr @ 16, you have calculated it as that, 16 to pull the value 0.9375. Does the rate become doubled as soon as it exceeds 16?

Also, you say that on the field maps a mastered pre-emp will halve the chance of all back & Pincer attacks. Just to clarify, we're talking [IF PEMr = 85 then (BA1, BA2 & PA ENCr / 2)]. This is all or nothing? Less than PEMr 85 and nothing happens?
Thanks

-Edit- My * rating has only been given to screens in which random encounters are enabled., with 1 exception; the Winding Tunnels in Sector 4 (which I have given **** given its exceptionally high enc rate... in a manor of speaking). If I am to give this area a rating value, what would be an appropriate value for the area's enc rate? I can;t give it 1, because that could make this area seem as good as the Swamp Area. I'll have a play around with various values to find a figure that seems correct. You said that the highest encounter chance possible was 12 iirc? I'll try giving this area 10 and then see what happens

-double edit- I've also given the Midgar Marsh a training * rating. of exactly 1 * I beleive
« Last Edit: 2016-04-16 19:27:10 by DynamixDJ »

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #27 on: 2016-04-16 21:36:24 »

NFITC1

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 2690
  • Karma: 59
  • I just don't know what went wrong.
    • View Profile
    • WM/PrC Blog
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #28 on: 2016-04-17 12:25:13 »
With a mastered Pre-emp at 85, this should be 0.66796875

You have the value 0.3359375, which is ( 1 - ((255 - PEMr) / 256) )

Reads other posts..... (255/3=85). This is why I'm getting confused. It's not ( 1 - ((255 - PEMr) / 256) ) at all, it's still ( 1 - (PEMr / 256) )

Except this is a check on if the special formations will be disregarded entirely. Without Pre-Emptive Materia, this is always 1/16 that their consideration will just be skipped (240 / 256 that they will be considered). With ANY PEMr greater than 16 this rate is doubled and the skip condition maxes out at ~2/3 ( ~1 / 3 that they will be considered).

Sorry, could you possibly clarify for me exactly when the PemR is doubled?
At the very beginning and no where else. This "trickles down" into the normal battle consideration by adding to their chances of occurring. eg. If special formations are skipped 2 / 3 of the time the normal battles will increase in frequency by ~2 / 3.

Also, you say that on the field maps a mastered pre-emp will halve the chance of all back & Pincer attacks. Just to clarify, we're talking [IF PEMr = 85 then (BA1, BA2 & PA ENCr / 2)]. This is all or nothing? Less than PEMr 85 and nothing happens?
I said nothing about that. For the record, mastered Pre-Emp and maxed PEMr are two different things. A mastered Pre-Emp materia only adds 48 to this number which is capped at 85, but if one is mastered the only thing I can tell that does anything is side attacks (where you are attacking from both sides) gets its chance doubled ( 20 / 64 instead of 10 / 64 ). This is still affected by the ( 1 - PEMr / 256 ) at the beginning, but it increases the chance that if the back attacks fails their chance that a side attack will occur.

If I am to give this area a rating value, what would be an appropriate value for the area's enc rate? I can;t give it 1, because that could make this area seem as good as the Swamp Area. I'll have a play around with various values to find a figure that seems correct. You said that the highest encounter chance possible was 12 iirc? I'll try giving this area 10 and then see what happens
If you're dead-set on rating each area, I would take all the averages and multiply all the results by [12 / encouter_rate] and then rank those values. You don't even have to present that number to the reader except you should mention that encounter_rate is taken into account during ranking. That will give you the best spread of which areas are actually better for grinding at.

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #29 on: 2016-04-17 12:49:10 »
Quote
Except this is a check on if the special formations will be disregarded entirely. Without Pre-Emptive Materia, this is always 1/16 that their consideration will just be skipped (240 / 256 that they will be considered). With ANY PEMr greater than 16 this rate is doubled and the skip condition maxes out at ~2/3 ( ~1 / 3 that they will be considered).
Excellent. I can now start working the World Map formula this into my calculator, accounting for PEMr!!

Quote
I said nothing about that. For the record, mastered Pre-Emp and maxed PEMr are two different things. A mastered Pre-Emp materia only adds 48 to this number which is capped at 85, but if one is mastered the only thing I can tell that does anything is side attacks (where you are attacking from both sides) gets its chance doubled ( 20 / 64 instead of 10 / 64 ). This is still affected by the ( 1 - PEMr / 256 ) at the beginning, but it increases the chance that if the back attacks fails their chance that a side attack will occur.
Yes, when I said mastered, I actually meant maxed PEMr. I'll have to sit down with this one some more when I got to input it into the calc. It could start to get a little messy...
I'm still not entirely sure how and when Bck Atck and Pinc Attacks are affected (halved) by the PEMr on the Field Maps, is it when it is 85 only?

Quote
If you're dead-set on rating each area, I would take all the averages and multiply all the results by [12 / encouter_rate] and then rank those values. You don't even have to present that number to the reader except you should mention that encounter_rate is taken into account during ranking. That will give you the best spread of which areas are actually better for grinding at.
So, is what you're saying - (EXP Av * (12/Enc)) + (AP Av * (12/Enc)) + (GIL Av * (12/Enc))
-edit- ^^That would be for the World Map, field map would be:
(EXP Av * (24/Enc)) + (AP Av * (24/Enc)) + (GIL Av * (24/Enc))
« Last Edit: 2016-04-17 14:08:03 by DynamixDJ »

NFITC1

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 2690
  • Karma: 59
  • I just don't know what went wrong.
    • View Profile
    • WM/PrC Blog
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #30 on: 2016-04-19 21:06:55 »
Fun Fact:
On the field, if the chosen normal battle formation is the same as the previous battle, the normal formation selection occurs once more. This sort of decreases the chance of the same battle twice in a row.

Code: [Select]
encounterValue = NextRandEncLUT() >> 2;
chosenFieldFormation = normalFieldFormation(5).formID; //fallback formation. Slot 6 will always be selected if 1-5 fail.
for ( x = 0; x < 5; ++x )
{
   formationEncounterValue += normalFieldFormation(x).encounter;
   if ( encounterValue < formationEncounterValue )
   {
      chosenFieldFormation = normalFieldFormation(x).formID;
      break;
   }
}
if ( chosenFieldFormation == previousFieldFormation )
{
   encounterValue = NextRandEncLUT() >> 2;
   chosenFieldFormation = normalFieldFormation(5).formID; //fallback formation. Slot 6 will always be selected if 1-5 fail.
   for ( x = 0; x < 5; ++x )
   {
      formationEncounterValue += normalFieldFormation(x).encounter
      if ( encounterValue < formationEncounterValue )
      {
         chosenFieldFormation = normalFieldFormation(x).formID;
         previousFieldFormation = chosenFieldFormation;
      }
   }
}
else
{
   previousFieldFormation = chosenFieldFormation;
}

There's no way or reason to work this into your averages, I just thought it was interesting enough to share. :)

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #31 on: 2016-04-20 01:50:46 »
You're right, that is very interesting to know.

I've taken the calculator off of Google Drive now, firstly because it wasn't really working properly; the cell functions weren't really C+P'ing correctly, and secondly because this thing is becoming quite spectacular, and the calculator function is now just a feature!

What this calculator can/will be able to do:
  • Load an enemy's stats via searching Enemy Name
  • Load an enemy's stats via searching Enemy ID
  • Load a formation of enemy's stats via searching Formation ID
  • Load up an area's formations via searching Map ID
  • Load up an area's formations via searching Map Name
  • View the averages for all stats of an area
  • Modify the averages via Materia modifiers such as Pre-emptive, Gil/Exp Plus, Enemy Lure/Away etc.
  • Modders can adjust the database to match their own enemy database to view the progression rate of the enemy's difficulty and rewards
  • Can also be used for modders starting out to draft out every aspect of their enemy database, before altering anything physically.
  • If searching an area, a FALSE value will be returned if the total enc rates of all normal battles doesn't equal 64 or 0
  • Accommodate for the 8 occasions in which the encounter rate overflow glitch occurs

And a few other exciting ideas I have for it.

One thing though, the "training value" formula that I use doesn't work. If any enc rate of 128 is doubled to 64, the rating is also doubled. I don't think that the enc rate should have that big of an impact on the overall rating; primarily exp ap and gil. I tried to work it so that increasing the enc rate from 128 to 64 only made the rating value increase by 125%, but I couldn't work it out properly.....  ???

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #32 on: 2016-04-21 00:23:39 »
OK then, it's taken me a helluva a long time to work this formula out, and I'm so chuffed that it worked that I just had to share it. Here is a screenshot of my "Formation" database:



The problem:

I'm lazy and don't want to type in the enemy's names against the "scene" in column N for every scene.

The solution:

To find a "sweeping formula" that searches every relevant cell to see whether or not it is empty, and then to see if it a name already assigned to that scene. I've finally done it!

=IF(NOT($G48=0),$G48,IF(NOT($D49=$N49),$D49,IF(NOT($G49=0),IF
(NOT($G49=$N49),$G49,IF(NOT($D50=$N49),$D50,IF(NOT($G50=0),IF
(NOT($G50=$N49),$G50,IF(NOT($D51=$N49),$D51,IF(NOT($G51=0),IF
(NOT($G51=$N49),$G51,$D$1052),$D$1052))),IF(NOT($D51=$N49),$D51,IF
(NOT($G51=0),IF(NOT($G51=$N49),$G51,$D$1052),$D$1052))))),IF
(NOT($D50=$N49),$D50,IF(NOT($G50=0),IF(NOT($G50=$N49),$G50,IF
(NOT($D51=$N49),$D51,IF(NOT($G51=0),IF(NOT($G51=$N49),$G51,$D$1052),$D$1052))),IF
(NOT($D51=$N49),$D51,IF(NOT($G51=0),IF(NOT($G51=$N490),$G151,$D$1052),$D$1052)))))))

And that's just for cell N50, I still need to work out a formula for the third enemy, and that formula will be twice as long as it also needs to sweep through the J column! At least I know this work! Here is how I worked it out:

N49 = D48. Enemy slot 1 equals the the name of the first enemy in the first formation in that scene.

D=Enemy 1
G=Enemy 2
J=Enemy 3
148~151 are the 4 rows in the formation (IDs 32~35)

Code: [Select]
1
=IF(NOT($G48=0),$G48,IF

2
(NOT($D49=$N49),$D49,IF

3
(NOT($G49=0),IF

3A
(NOT($G49=$N49),$G49,IF

3B
(NOT($D50=$N49),$D50,IF

3C
(NOT($G50=0),IF

3C1
(NOT($G50=$N49),$G50,IF

3C2
(NOT($D51=$N49),$D51,IF

3C3
(NOT($G51=0),IF

3C3A
(NOT($G51=$N49),$G51,"")

/3C3A, 3C3
,"")
/3C3, 3C2
)
/3C2, 3C1
)
/3C1, 3C
,IF

3D
(NOT($D51=$N49),$D51,IF

3E
 (NOT($G51=0),IF

3E1
(NOT($G51=$N49),$G51,"")

/3E1, 3E
,"")

/3E, 3D
)

/3D, 3C
)

/3C, 3B
)

/3B, 3A
)

/3A, 3
,IF

4
(NOT($D50=$N49),$D50,IF

5
(NOT($G50=0),IF

5A
(NOT($G50=$N49),$G50,IF

5B
(NOT($D51=$N49),$D51,IF

5C
(NOT($G51=0),IF

5CA
(NOT($G51=$N49),$G51,"")

/5CA, 5C
,"")

/5C, 5B
)

/5B, 5A
)

/5A, 5
,IF

6
(NOT($D51=$N49),$D51,IF

7
(NOT($G51=0),IF

7A
(NOT($G51=$N49,$G51,"")

/7A, 7
,"")
)))))))

And after all that, I tried this formula on the spread sheet software i use at home, Kingsoft, and the IF Nesting has exceeded its limit. Goddamn it!!

How the hell do I change this formula to fit in with Excels paramaters?

-Edit-
I've just uploaded the spreadsheet to Google Drive once more, C+P'd the formula in, and it worked. Then I downloaded the file, and..... it worked!!!!! go figure. "How to bypass the IF Nesting limitation"
« Last Edit: 2016-04-21 18:10:00 by DynamixDJ »

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #33 on: 2016-04-21 04:20:17 »
OK, Here is the formula I've worked for the third enemy slot, but there is a mistake with it, and I'm too tired to try to work it out:

=IF(NOT($J48=0),$J48,IF(OR($D49=$N50,$D49=$N49),IF(NOT($G49=0),IF(OR($G49=$N50,$G49=$N49),
IF(NOT($J49=0),$J49,IF(OR($D50=$N50,$D50=$N49),IF(NOT($G50=0),IF(OR($G50=$N50,$G50=$N49),
IF(NOT($J50=0),$J50,IF(OR($D51=$N50,$D51=$N49),IF(NOT($G51=0),IF(OR($G51=$N50,$G51=$N49),
IF(NOT($J51=0),$J51,$D$1052),$G51),$D$1052),$D51)),$G50),IF(OR($D51=$N50,$D51=$N49),
IF(NOT($G51=0),IF(OR($G51=$N50,$G51=$N49),IF(NOT($J51=0),$J51,$D$1052),$G51),$D$1052),$D51)),$D50)),$G49),
IF(OR($D50=$N50,$D50=$N49),IF(NOT($G50=0),IF(OR($G50=$N50,$G50=$N49),IF(NOT($J50=0),$J50,
IF(OR($D51=$N50,$D51=$N49),IF(NOT($G51=0),IF(OR($G51=$N50,$G51=$N49),
IF(NOT($J51=0),$J51,$D$1052),$G51),$D$1052),$D51)),$G50),IF(OR($D51=$N50,$D51=$N49),
IF(NOT($G51=0),IF(OR($G51=$N50,$G51=$N49),IF(NOT($J51=0),$J51,$D$1052),$G51),$D$1052),$D51)),$D50)),$D49))


Code: [Select]
M51

1
=IF(NOT($J48=0),$J48,IF

2
(OR($D49=$N50,$D49=$N49),IF

3
(NOT($G49=0),IF

3A
(OR($G49=$N50,$G49=$N49),IF

3B
(NOT($J49=0),$J49,IF

3C
(OR($D50=$N50,$D50=$N49),IF

3D

(NOT($G50=0),IF

3D1

(OR($G50=$N50,$G50=$N49),IF

3D2

(NOT($J50=0),$J50,IF

3D3

(OR($D51=$N50,$G50=$N49),IF


3D4
(NOT($G51=0),IF

3D4A
(OR($G51=$N50,$G51=$N49),IF

3D4B
(NOT($J51=0),$J51,$D$1052)

/3D4B, 3D4A
,$G51)

/3D4A. 3D4
,$D$1052)

/3D4, 3D3
,$D51)

/3D3, 3D2
)

/3D2, 3D1
,$G50)

/3D1, 3D
,IF

3E
(OR($D51=$N50,$D51=$N49),IF

3F
(NOT($G51=0),IF

3F1
(OR($G51=$N50,$G51=$N49),IF

3F2
(NOT($J51=0),$J51,$D$1052)

/3F2, 3F1
,$G51)

/3F1, 3F
,$D$1052)

/3F, 3E
,$D51)

/3E, 3D
)

/3D, 3C
,$D50)

/3C, 3B
)

/3B, 3A
,$G49)

/3A, 3
,IF

4
(OR($D50=$N50,$D50=$N49),IF

5
(NOT($G50=0),IF

5A
(OR($G50=$N50,$G50=$N49),IF

5B
(NOT($J50=0),$J50,IF

5C
(OR($D51=$N50,$D51=$N49),IF

5D
(NOT($G51=0),IF

5D1
(OR($G51=$N50,$G51=$N49),IF

5D2
(NOT($J51=0),$J51,$D$1052)

/5D2, 5D1
,$G51)

/5D1, 5D
,$D$1052)

/5D, 5C
,$D51)

/5C, 5B
)

/5B, 5A
,$G50)

/5A, 5
,IF

6
(OR($D51=$N50,$D51=$N49),IF

7
(NOT($G51=0),IF

7A
(OR($G51=$N50,$G51=$N49),IF

7B
(NOT($J51=0),$J51,$D$1052)

/7B, 7A
,$G51)

/7A, 7
,$D$1052)

/7, 6
,$D51)

/6, 5
)

/5, 4
,$D50)

/4, 3
)

/3, 2
,$D49)

/2, 1
)

EDIT I'd made 1 mistake in the first formula, and 3 in the second. Both are fixed and are working fine now!!

Also, I don;t think I made it clear enough the purpose of these formulas. As I fill in the enemies names in the D G & J columns, I want the three enemies that are used within the scene to automatically be filled out in column N, without having to type the enemies names in manually. These formulas sweep each cell of names used within the four formations (columns D G & J) and fills out the 3 enemy slots in column N automatically
« Last Edit: 2016-04-21 21:21:37 by DynamixDJ »

jmp434

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 204
  • Karma: 50
  • https://www.paypal.me/jmp434
    • View Profile
    • Make a donation
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #34 on: 2016-04-22 07:24:30 »
Hi, I have not quite understood the idea of the graphics you talking about? You are being calculated for a new engine for the game?

Kaldarasha

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 1992
  • Karma: 118
  • Prince of Model Editing
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #35 on: 2016-04-22 09:30:03 »
Don't deal with this. It is useful for moders, who needs to plan their difficulty mod or for those, who make a walkthrough for the game.

jmp434

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 204
  • Karma: 50
  • https://www.paypal.me/jmp434
    • View Profile
    • Make a donation
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #36 on: 2016-04-22 09:32:03 »
Oh ok, thanks you Kaldarasha :)

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #37 on: 2016-04-22 10:52:45 »
Yeah, the idea behind this topic is to make a series of useful charts and other documents that portray more information than can be found in the majority FAQs which have been designed for the gamer; these charts have been designed for the modders.

The above posts are in regards to a spreadsheet that I'm working on that is firstly a database of all enemies, formations, and field maps those formations appear on; and secondly it is a calculator that works out the average EXP, AP, GIL etc for each area. This tool will be particularly useful to anyone who is planning on making a mod; their entire enemy database can be drafted out first.

DynamixDJ

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 18
  • 1111 1111 0111
    • View Profile
Re: Helpful Charts by DynamixDJ
« Reply #38 on: 2016-06-12 14:45:10 »
I have updated my Enemy Formation Charts to V1.1:

 - I've given it a Complete and thorough once-over for errors.
 - Average Exp, AP and Gil has been included in the "ENCOUNTERS BY FIELD ID" section.

I'm still working on the calculator that myself and NFITC1 discussed a while back. It's turned into a massive database that can do a whole heap of things. It can already calculate Damage Overflow, and can pull an entire area's worth of enemies + stats simply by inputting the field map ID. I'm currently filling in the enemies Attack Data (nearly 1000 entries, ugh); my plan is to create a bestiary that is as thorough as it can possibly be. If anyone would like to test the work I've already done then PM me and I'll send you the current version.

Anyway, the original purpose of the calculator is finished, which was to calculate the true averages for each screen. here is the absolute best of every area:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/197341-final-fantasy-vii/73867194

-Edit- V1.1.1 Uploaded, which includes the average Qty pf enemies for each area
« Last Edit: 2016-06-16 22:07:25 by DynamixDJ »