Author Topic: Video Tutorial: How to make improved FF7 backgrounds in Sketchup  (Read 29093 times)

halkun

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Another tip:
you can load more than one picture and calibrate your current 3d model to it. This means you can take all three pictures of the reactor inside and photomatch a few times to get the details missed by only one.

ScottMcTony

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Been modeling with zbrush for a few weeks, which I guess I'll use for detailing, and I've been intending to help out when I can for a while now, but this post actually got me started using google sketchup. Not that I intend to seriously submit anything for some months, certainly not for the bombing mission project, but hopefully you guys won't be finished every inorganic field background by the time I feel halfway confident in my competence.

1 hour of tutorials + 1:30 or so of actual work =



Yes, I know I created the wall offset from the bridge for some reason, and consequently it's out of perspective with the original background, as well as causing the pipes (and anything else I attempted to create protruding from it) to be mis-angled. And ignoring that, even just my bridge part isn't as good as djkoopa's, which is why I intend to practice for at least 3 months before I make a serious attempt at even a simplistic industrial background. I'm a bitterly slow learner at anything the least bit artistic, but also a perfectionist, a "never plateau" kind of guy, and a "work until 7 AM Friday night, only noticing that it isn't still 2 once the sun comes up" kind of guy, so I can make it work, I guess.

djkoopa

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Not bad!

Little things to help you out...

1) You need to move your origin to a more central spot so you can draw off the vertexes.
2) The far right wall has a line in it, if you erase that line and the whole wall disappears, that means the wall edges are not parallel with each other.
3) Something in general, when you do your initial alignment you are supped to run the red and green handles along the walls, It helps align, just make sure green and red are perpendicular.

1) moved the origin to the bridge/door now to make it more central (didn't realize it'd move my whole model haha never mind)

2) so thats what the problem was!! I've tried re-doing the lines but I cant get it to fill in the surface. Is there a way to make the line draw parallel?

3) when I did the alignment I ran the green lines along the bridge and the red lines across the back wall. Looked ok to me but as you're mentioning it I'm guessing I must have got it a bit off?


One more thing - how much detail do I need to go into here? Obviously more is better, but take the walkway side rails for example. I can cut the holes out so it looks more like a fence rather than a flat wall, but do i leave that flat or expand it to make it more of a box (like ScottMcTony has done)?

Thanks for the feedback guys

Timu Sumisu

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Nice stuff scottmctony, Glad to have you onboard. Firslty, If you'd rather spend some time learning your tools fine, but imo, the best way to learn is by getting right into a project you're enthusiastic about.

Another suggestion, don't work on a scene that someone else has started. If you're unsure, or can't be arsed to check through the forum, ask SL or myself.

djkoopa

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Timu, is there any chance you can mark me down for nmkin_4 on the bombing mission page if ScottMcTony doesn't want to submit anything yet? Just to save anymore duplicates. After Halkuns feedback on ym stuff from last night I decided to start again and its going well so far





Timu Sumisu

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Done, and done. I also marked you for nmkin_3, as its the same scene from another angle.



You should lign it up and use it as well.

djkoopa

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Trying to add nmkin_3 but I'm having trouble lining it up what I've already got... not 100% sure how to go about it. Seems to be too small, as if its too far away or too low on the x-axis

ScottMcTony

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Nice stuff scottmctony, Glad to have you onboard. Firslty, If you'd rather spend some time learning your tools fine, but imo, the best way to learn is by getting right into a project you're enthusiastic about.

Another suggestion, don't work on a scene that someone else has started. If you're unsure, or can't be arsed to check through the forum, ask SL or myself.

Well, there's a reason the files were named practice1 and practice 2, mind.  If I come back in 3 months and nobody's claimed Shinra HQ I might try to do that (unless someone already has?). About learning by doing, I'm more worried about my zbrush skills. I'd show you some awful thing I've already done in that, but it is shameful and there are more than close friends here. If I were to try something usable now, there would be months of remodeling that before I was satisfied, and the only difference that would make would be how incredibly sick I'd be of a single field.
djkoopa, for your second day doing any kind of modeling, I am amazed.
« Last Edit: 2010-04-24 19:37:45 by ScottMcTony »

djkoopa

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Thanks scottmctony, appreciate it. I said I'm a fast learner lol  ;)  Good luck with your practicing, looking forward to seeing more of your work soon!

I've got all the shapes down for nmkin_4 now, just the details to fill in and those pesky pipes!!







sl1982

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Looking good! You are almost to the point where you need to switch to a full fledged 3d app

djkoopa

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What would that involve sl? Takin this model and touching it up? I haven't even gone through the sketchup tutorials yet so im sure I could improve it in that still

Tekkie.X

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It would be for adding smaller details, texturing it, doing the lighting etc then rendering it for use in game.

djkoopa

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Ahh ok. Was kinda hopin someone with more experiance would be able to texture it for me but I spose I could have a crack at it! 

sl1982

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Dont look at me. I tried texturing and im no good at it.

BlitzNCS

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I thought I posted this reply earlier o.O maybe not.

Anyway, This kind of 3D work is different to the kind of stuff created for realtime rendered 3D, such as the many battle models we've been making recently.
There are two big differences between the two kinds. Firstly, there's no real limit on poly count when you pre-render - as long as we can render these scenes once in a realistic time period, you can have as much detail in the models as you like.
Secondly, and most importantly, the battle system in FF7 doesn't use any lighting system whatsoever; it relies on vertex colours or textures to get shadows and highlights onto models, hence why texture artists like Millenia paint them on manually. Since that restriction doesn't reply to pre-rendered images, With enough detail in your models and some clever rendering techniques, you could get away with giving objects a completely flat colour for their diffuse map, and just use different lighting systems to get the correct lighting in there. In modelling scenes like this, you can also use techniques like tiling textures and bump maps to get a nice feel as well.

So, basically, texture work is a lot different when working with scenes than it is with battle character models. You have a lot more options, and as long as you can learn to use a 3D app well enough, you don't need to know a thing about texturing to be able to texture scenes.

Delacroix

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Hello everyone!

Is there a basic tutorial google sketchup on the positioning of the axes? I'm trying to learn but have no notion of 3D modeling ... Thanks!

Translated by Google :-D

djkoopa

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Hello everyone!

Is there a basic tutorial google sketchup on the positioning of the axes? I'm trying to learn but have no notion of 3D modeling ... Thanks!

Translated by Google :-D

Watch Halkun's videos in the first post of this thread. I literally had no idea about modelling or sketchup before watching them yesterday and they really helped a lot

ScottMcTony

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I noticed some of the field backgrounds don't have especially logical perspective. From the bombing mission, the three-way catwalk is the most egregious. With the X and Z axis aligned to either wall, the Y axis will be slightly misaligned to that very wall, and whether the the X and Z axis are aligned to the catwalk or either wall, you'll find the other two major surfaces out of alignment, and if you try aligning one red line to one wall, and the other to the other wall, you'll still find the catwalk and the other edges of the walls off, and so on in every manner I tried. This makes it very difficult to model, and as pushing oneself is the fastest way to learn, I of course jumped right into it. I have spent spent hours working feverishly and uselessly, to come up with this:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceA.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceB.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceC.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceD.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceF.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/795661/practiceE.jpg
There are inaccuracies that are entirely my fault to the point that this couldn't really be made into anything usable, but you can see where quirks are "the game's fault". Still, after what I have learned attempting this, I feel I could make any simpler (and more sensible) background my b*tch, as well as any badger.
I posted this here not only because it seems to have become an odd, temporary newb thread, but also because it seems right for talk about perspective.
« Last Edit: 2010-04-25 06:19:14 by ScottMcTony »

halkun

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I think your problem is that you assume the side walls are parallel with each other. The catwalk is between to of the "pizza slices" of Midgar which means the area is wider towards the reactor and narrower towards the camera.

Do you know how to snap to a plane/axis yet? It will keep the doors from coming crooked.

BlitzNCS

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Midgar's exterior, as a whole, is quite weird. I learned this while experimenting with different field backgrounds. Basically, the problem is that it's not completely square, so it's hard to get anything to properly line up. That particular scene is actually between two plates, and because of this, the two side walls can't be completely parallel. Take a look at this. I'm not the best at using paint to explain things, but you should get the idea. I think it would be best to get the entire shell of midgar done first before attempting scenes like that

EDIT: D: beat by halkun xD

halkun

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Actually I stand corrected. I have an alignment that puts everything square. I even popped in a 3d guy for good measure. Here is a picture of my aliagnment points. The thing is. The camera has a very wide field if view, so The vanishing point is almost visable. I'll draw up some plys on this a little later.



Look at how I have the alignment handles lined up. Also notice how the dashed lines cross. It is a high-ass wide-ass angle, but it's doable.
« Last Edit: 2010-04-25 11:47:00 by halkun »

BlitzNCS

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...Wow, Guess you're right, It works ok even when you assume it's square. What happens if you drag the green ones to something we know 100% is gonna be square? (i.e the vertical-y part of the bridge)

halkun

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Here you go, about an hours worth of work :)


halkun

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...Wow, Guess you're right, It works ok even when you assume it's square. What happens if you drag the green ones to something we know 100% is gonna be square? (i.e the vertical-y part of the bridge)

The scene is actually square as seen by my pictures above. You just have to get the perspective right.

BlitzNCS

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So what you're saying is, It's a continuity error on square's part that they thought we wouldn't ever notice?
Well, We have now!