Author Topic: More technical updates... (Read 14121 times)

ficedula · « **on:** 2002-12-18 18:54:12 »

In the spirit of releasing funky screenshots (spurred on by Alhexx and the new Ultima...) here's the latest work I've made on the Remake engine. I'll just link to the pictures, they're moderately large. Enjoy!

http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/field_dec.png

A few more updates to the field module. Finally I've got filtering on *all* the tiles working so no more (well ... almost none

) black lines on the backgrounds. Models also have textures working, not that you can really see the faces on this location, unfortunately.

http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/battle.png

Finally, some graphical display! Not much else to say about this

http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/zangan1.png
http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/zangan2.png

...the tool I used to test stuff out...

http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/Worklog.txt

Worklog from the engine.

Caddberry · « **Reply #1 on:** 2002-12-19 02:29:21 »

Thats looking really smooth man... Good job..

Renderguy · « **Reply #2 on:** 2002-12-19 03:50:29 »

Stupid Internet Exploiter (won't let me view the .png's! I downloaded two of the pics and they look great! Keep up the good work on the remake project.

phaeron · « **Reply #3 on:** 2002-12-19 05:35:16 »

Hmm... looks like Z-fighting due to polygon interpenetration at the edges of the rocks in the zengan2 picture. Polygons a little too big?

ficedula · « **Reply #4 on:** 2002-12-19 14:06:11 »

I suspect the depth buffer ... it's probably only using a 16-bit depth buffer (this being just a test, I just initialised a 'default' OpenGL window), and I've also probably set the Z range way too large (again, since it was just a test, to make sure it didn't clip anything...). I suspect I could sort it out fairly quickly by playing around with the depth settings. Hardly a priority, of course, I don't really care about bugs in the test programs until they show up in the main game too...

Oh, and well noticed

Cyberman · « **Reply #5 on:** 2002-12-19 15:43:59 »

Oh yes.. I did peruse your images, I wondered where Aeris and Tifa were on the last image then I realized it was a test program (doh).
I think I saw a bit more detail on Cloud than when using the PSX version of FF7. I assume your program is for the PC version of FF7

Cyb

Cyberman · « **Reply #6 on:** 2002-12-19 16:02:00 »

Erg what I ment to say (heh) was that it was for the PC versions data set (mumble). MIM files.. what are they (scratches head).

Alhexx · « **Reply #7 on:** 2002-12-19 18:30:40 »

fice: yay, great work... keep' on that good work.

I just hope I'll be able to work the textures out, so I can tell some new stuff to you ...

- Alhexx

ficedula · « **Reply #8 on:** 2002-12-19 18:45:09 »

I've got *textures* fully working, both on the battle scenes and the models, so that isn't a problem at all ... NeutopiaW's information together with SainT's filetype listing in your battle database and your battle location description, gave me everything I needed for texturing.

*Animations* for the battle models, now, that's something I could do with....

Cyberman: Yeah, the battle graphics are still in very-early-alpha stage right now, although the loader should display any model fine, so Aeris & Tifa's models could easily be put in; I just didn't bother because, well, not enough else of it works yet...

And yes, it is using the PC files, of course ... although I thought the 3d models were pretty much the same in both. The PC version was less pixellated, of course, simply due to the higher resolution; but the model itself might not be much different, if at all.

Alhexx · « **Reply #9 on:** 2002-12-19 19:31:43 »

hm ... bad ... that means that I'm behind ... means I've got a lot of work to do on Ultima...

- Alhexx

Alhexx · « **Reply #10 on:** 2002-12-24 23:48:04 »

Fice: There is maybe something you could add to Zangan:
A button that lets you, once you have loaded a lgp, simply enter the 2byte-code, so you won't have to re-open the lgp everytime you want to change the location.
And maybe another slider that lets you move the viewpoint away from the origin...

- Alhexx

The Skillster · « **Reply #11 on:** 2002-12-25 09:30:29 »

some impressive pics fice
even tho cloud is supersized

but if we are gonna look at custom battle scenes, but sort of format is it gonna be in for ur prgram?

ficedula · « **Reply #12 on:** 2002-12-26 10:50:50 »

Alhexx:

The different open button; can do, obviously that's easy.

Moving the camera ... hmm ... yes, of course it *can* be done, just don't expect the location to always look that good

The battle locations are sometimes like theatre props - literally only complete on one side, and viewed from the other angles, they look like hollow shells....

Guess I'll put the camera movement in anyway. Just don't be surprised by stuff like that

Skillster:

Well, if Ultima can create P files, then you're sorted because battle locations are just textured P files...

Jedimark · « **Reply #13 on:** 2002-12-26 11:18:01 »

That's looking very impressive. Good work!!

Cyberman · « **Reply #14 on:** 2002-12-27 18:18:42 »

Quote from: ficedula

Alhexx:

The different open button; can do, obviously that's easy.

Moving the camera ... hmm ... yes, of course it *can* be done, just don't expect the location to always look that good The battle locations are sometimes like theatre props - literally only complete on one side, and viewed from the other angles, they look like hollow shells....

Guess I'll put the camera movement in anyway. Just don't be surprised by stuff like that

Hmmm any way to add a plugin interface? IE export to a renderer such as POV etc? Might be cool to export a series of frames from a combat scene into POVray's format (which includes the ability to LOOP and a few other things).

Cyb

ficedula · « **Reply #15 on:** 2002-12-27 19:05:10 »

OK, new version of Zangan uploaded, http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/Zangan.zip

-Wireframe option (doubleclick background)
-Move around (hold down mouse button)
-Open from LGP button

Cyberman: Hmmm, am I noticing a pattern in your feature requests here?

Zangan doesn't as yet support a plugin interface, although a lot of my programs do...although I could easily add one in. I'm guessing you'd like me to?

Although, since Zangan only does the *locations*, I'm not sure how you'd want to export a series of frames...

Nevertheless, an export location to a plugin could be useful. I'll do it.

Cyberman · « **Reply #16 on:** 2002-12-28 02:07:41 »

Quote from: ficedula

Cyberman: Hmmm, am I noticing a pattern in your feature requests here?

Zangan doesn't as yet support a plugin interface, although a lot of my programs do...although I could easily add one in. I'm guessing you'd like me to?

Although, since Zangan only does the *locations*, I'm not sure how you'd want to export a series of frames...

Nevertheless, an export location to a plugin could be useful. I'll do it.

Yes.. I like to make plugins .. haven't you noticed that? (laughs).

Besides I've only been making lots of DLL's for something

Well each model/person in the scene has a animation sequence attached to them right? (dumb question had to be asked).

Cyb

ficedula · « **Reply #17 on:** 2002-12-29 13:38:51 »

Quote

Well each model/person in the scene has a animation sequence attached to them right? (dumb question had to be asked).

Zangan only displays the *locations* - not the people in it. So all you could export would be a static set of geometry, for the scenery.

Nevertheless, http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/Zangan110.zip for the latest version ... only real change being the plugin support (all the info needed to write a plugin is including, if you still want to do it).

For people, you need Mirex's Leviathan (see General forum for an announcement today about that), or a program I'm working on - see http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/dio.png for a screenshot.

However, we don't understand the animation format. We (thanks to Phaeron, I should add) can position the model on its base frame, but not (AFAIK) decode any frames after the first.

Alhexx · « **Reply #18 on:** 2002-12-29 20:20:32 »

fice & mirex:
What are Dio and Leviathan goint ot be? Viewers? Or Viewers and Editors?

Since you guys are more up-to-date, maybe I could leave the skeleton-editor to you, huh?

- Alhexx

ficedula · « **Reply #19 on:** 2002-12-30 13:02:10 »

Dio, I'm aiming to be an editor (although only doing the skeletons, and really just the animations for them). Editing the actual P files I'll leave to Ultima

Leviathan's a more handy viewer for the models, though, what with the lists, etc.

mirex · « **Reply #20 on:** 2002-12-30 16:28:00 »

Leviathan is viewer-only. For now. I dont know what will be in future.

Alhexx · « **Reply #21 on:** 2002-12-30 18:00:47 »

ficedula: Fine. That means I can concentrate on the .p files, and I just need to build in a little viewer for whole models...

- Alhexx

Cyberman · « **Reply #22 on:** 2002-12-31 02:26:13 »

Quote from: ficedula

Zangan only displays the *locations* - not the people in it. So all you could export would be a static set of geometry, for the scenery.

Nevertheless, http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/Zangan110.zip for the latest version ... only real change being the plugin support (all the info needed to write a plugin is including, if you still want to do it).

In your description you have for
TPart = packed record
   TexCount, VertGroup, GroupCount:   Integer;
   Texs:      ^Integer;
   Verts:   ^TVertex;
   Groups:   ^TGroup;
   IndCounts: ^Integer;
end;
You have no description for TVertex. I assume this is TPoint3d in reality?

Quote from: ficedula

For people, you need Mirex's Leviathan (see General forum for an announcement today about that), or a program I'm working on - see http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~csuzs/oldsite/dio.png for a screenshot.

Ahh cool.. I'll have to have a looksie then!

Quote from: ficedula

However, we don't understand the animation format. We (thanks to Phaeron, I should add) can position the model on its base frame, but not (AFAIK) decode any frames after the first.

My guess is the animation uses the skeleton information for movement, just a guess I've been wrong before and it won't be the first time!

ficedula · « **Reply #23 on:** 2002-12-31 13:39:22 »

Quote

You have no description for TVertex. I assume this is TPoint3d in reality?

Ack! No, it isn't, it's TInterleavedVertex ... serves me right for calling the same thing different names.
Each vertex in the list has multiple pieces of information; position, colour, texture coordinates ... so, TInterleavedVertex should be used.

Quote

My guess is the animation uses the skeleton information for movement, just a guess I've been wrong before and it won't be the first time!

Well, the animation almost *has* to work by doing skeleton bone rotations; it's the only decent way to animate a skeleton, and it is how the HRC (field) models do *their* animations. The trick is finding out how they've encoded the frames...

Cyberman · « **Reply #24 on:** 2002-12-31 18:30:41 »

Quote from: ficedula

Ack! No, it isn't, it's TInterleavedVertex ... serves me right for calling the same thing different names. Each vertex in the list has multiple pieces of information; position, colour, texture coordinates ... so, TInterleavedVertex should be used.

Oh... hmmm I am just going to dump the textures after I enumerate them (sigh) by going through each Part and finding the highest and lowest Texture ID. Then reiterate and make copies of the textures convert them to Bitmaps and dump the bitmaps to files (wee). After that comes the fun part of using the image maps that were just defined.
I do have one problem, this thing is expecting files from the PC FF7 which I don't have. Are there equivalent files I can yank from the PSX version to use with Zangan?
It would be cool to be able to test the plugin I made (grin).

Quote from: ficedula

Well, the animation almost *has* to work by doing skeleton bone rotations; it's the only decent way to animate a skeleton, and it is how the HRC (field) models do *their* animations. The trick is finding out how they've encoded the frames...

Well that goes without saying.. hehehe
I would hazard to say that from there prior use of structures it might be LZS compressed and they might have made the animation by store frame differences in the end points of each skeletal member. IE the meeting points being common locations between bones they have a list of all points (individually) and store a change per each bone per frame. Some positions won't change. Since bone length won't change they might have included rotation information as well but not likely. It's simpler to store the differences and less space consuming.
So for the animation format they would have a link to a 'bone file' or data or have the bone information in it. Each frame likely indicates what 'joints' or ends are being moved with respect to the last frame as well.

Cybie