Author Topic: What Went Wrong?  (Read 36524 times)

DLPB_

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What Went Wrong?
« on: 2011-12-27 20:58:08 »


I wouldn't create mods for any other series, so what makes Final Fantasy different? And why has my love for it turned into frustration and despair? To answer this question, I will first need to explain a bit about my history with the series.

I first started playing games in the late '80s. My first console was the Atari 2600, and I knew from that point on that I had a close affinity with computer games. When I finally got a NES, I was stunned by the jump in quality compared to the Atari. I would come home every day from school and obsessively beat a given game.  I vividly remember spending insane amounts of time mastering Mario 1—going through the game multiple times until defeating the game was more down to memory than it was to skill.

These games are still great today.  Sure, the graphics are dated, but they're still enjoyable. You can really see and feel the effort that's been placed into them. I still rank Mario 3 as one of the greatest games of all time; it didn't need 720p, or any 'p', to be great (well, apart from the one that made Mario and Luigi fly). All it needed was solid game design and some catchy music. I am trying not to get to the crux of my argument before time, but you already know where I'm going with this. It is too obvious. Even so, it's necessary to explain WHY things are now the way they are. 

Before I owned a Playstation, I mostly played platform games, like Sonic and Mario.  I'd never even heard of an RPG.

So, my line to the Playstation was Atari2600 > NES > Megadrive > Playstation. Sadly, I did not own a SNES. Being from a poorer background I could not afford both SNES and Megadrive, so I had to choose.  I think my friend's Master System was the reason I ended up opting for the Megadrive. As much as I liked Mario, there was something new and exciting about the Sonic series. I don't regret the decision, because I think that the Megadrive had far more going for it game wise.  Due to never owning a SNES, I missed out on Final Fantasy VI. It's still a great game, and one that holds true to the classic Final Fantasy formula:  Graphics that push the system, a story based journey, great game play, great music, good pacing, and exceptional replay value.

Before I owned a Playstation, I mostly played platform games, like Sonic and Mario; I'd never even heard of an RPG. That changed on December 22nd 1997, when I first saw Final Fantasy VII. The only reason I chose it was because it had a nice cover and came on three discs; I recall thinking 'Three discs equals longer game'.  Luckily, that logic proved to be correct.  I received the game at the same time as the console, so it was my first Playstation game, too.  You can imagine my surprise having come from the Megadrive era.  I loaded the game to be presented with a cinematic opening sequence that just blew me away.  I had never imagined that that level of detail was possible.  But, even back then, graphics did not make me believe that Final Fantasy VII would be any good.  I remember being sceptical—especially about the random encounters (I escaped from so many that I had real trouble beating Materia Keeper  :P).   

But, somewhere along the way, it dawned on me that this game was the greatest I had ever played.  The story was great, the music was great, the game play was great. Hell, it even came with 2D mini-games!  I had never seen anything like it.  I was hooked for months.  I am not a believer in guides, so I discovered 99% of the game for myself, which was satisfying.  Every day was a new discovery—and THAT is what makes games last.  A new item, a new weapon, a new cut scene, a new super boss, or a secret materia cave.

When Final Fantasy VIII came out, I preordered it.  I had never preordered a game before and I was not to be disappointed.  It was no fluke-  I had finally found my gaming utopia.  Final Fantasy IX was great, as was Final Fantasy X.  It really did seem to me that the Final Fantasy franchise could not put a foot wrong.  It never entered my mind that a main release could EVER be lacking, or something I would not like.

That changed with Final Fantasy X-2.  You can't blame me really- I had been spoiled.  In the time from Final Fantasy VII to Final Fantasy X, I had also played and completed VI.  Final Fantasy was invincible.  I preordered Final Fantasy X-2 and didn't have a shred of doubt in my naive mind that it was going to be just as good!  I didn't even research it.  I had deluded myself into believing the game HAD to be great, even when I saw the gun toting slut on the front cover (it sure wasn’t Yuna).  I turned it on in wild anticipation, the same I had done with all the others, and...

What the f*ck!?  What the f*ck was this?  My jaw nearly dropped off.  I didn't say or do anything, I just stared with amazement at this joke of an opening.  And then I realized that the story was going to follow suit.  But perhaps it wouldn't... so I played 2 hours.  It went back in the box, never to be played again.  I talked myself into believing it was a blip.  Everyone makes a mistake, right?  After all, this was a sequel...

When Final Fantasy XII was released, like a true fanboy (which I was), I went out there and preordered that too without doing a shred of research  (again).  The game seemed like it was going to be just as good as the other entries to the series that I had grown to love, but when I reached the end of the game, I couldn't believe how lacking the whole affair had been;  from the brainless battle system right through to the one-line-wonder characters.  It was Final Fantasy in name only.  It was then that I started reading reviews and removed my head from my arse.  What did I find? Glorious reviews, generally.  I kept seeing, 'The story is deep!', 'The new battle system  really does away with the old, tired model' and 'This game is an inspiration!  Truly the greatest Final Fantasy!'  Absolute bollocks.  Anyone who thinks that about Final Fantasy XII is fooling themselves.  Mixed in with these fanboy ratings I saw a few that actually had the game to a tee.  They made it clear that if you were expecting Final Fantasy VI-X quality, you were going to be disappointed. 

I racked my brain for days wondering how anyone could conclude XII was a masterpiece.  So after Final Fantasy XII, I started thinking about possible reasons for the series seemingly going downhill.  It couldn't be the new generation console, because Final Fantasy X is brilliant.  I blamed the Enix merger for a long time.  Then I thought it was because the team that worked on XII was not the team that had worked on previous entries.  But no.  Any illusions I had that that was the real reason were shattered by more obvious money making spin-offs.  Final Fantasy XIII put the nail in the coffin for me.  There are many reasons why Final Fantasy has taken a spiral downwards, and I will discuss some of them now:

1.  Sakaguchi's disastrous Spirits Within movie, which was a massive box-office bomb.  I think it would be fair to say that Square as a company needed a lot more money, and that the games which followed took a turn for the worse due to that need for money.  The Enix merger, as far as I am aware, was necessary too, given the company was having financial problems.  So perhaps the Enix merger has become the convenient scapegoat?  I am not sure, but I personally think it did have an effect, even if you ignore Spirits Within.

2.  Sakaguchi leaving. A lot of things happened in the time between Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2, but I think it would be silly to dismiss this as inconsequential.  Sakaguchi was the father of Final Fantasy, and must have had a large influence- especially in guiding the flock.  Final Fantasy was his baby, and he wouldn't have wanted it to become a cash cow.

3.  The merger.  Again, as I said, perhaps this is too convenient an excuse, but there can be no doubt that the games after the merger are lower in quality.

The current predicament may have been caused by greed to a large extent, but I think the biggest problem is the fact that people have bought into the Final Fantasy brand.  I was open minded enough to jump off the train when I realized the games were never going to get better, but others have continued to buy into Final Fantasy.  It has sent the company a clear message that they can do as they please.

Nothing would possess me to buy a game like Final Fantasy XIII.  The only good thing I can say about it, compared to Final Fantasy VI-X, is that it has better graphics.  And that's it.  XIII has awakened a few from their fanboy stupor, as more have been willing to give the game a negative reaction in reviews, but it still hasn't sunk in for some.  I don't know how anyone can become this stupid.

Final Fantasy continues to sell enough that 'Senix' are making a large profit, and if they can do that by pumping out spin-offs, graphic-fests, or remakes- they will (provided the remakes are easy to make, of course).  Simply put, they are not only getting good sales from the fps generation of gamers, they are getting support from fans of the series who should have cast them aside after Final Fantasy XII, like I did.  You cannot blame Senix for continuing to laugh in people’s faces when they are doing as they please, with no repercussions.  They know that Final Fantasy XIII was negatively received compared to the other games, they have even made statements that the western gamers 'don't get it'.  But we do get it.  The thing is... they don’t care.  And they won't care until people kick them in the pocket.

I know all too well that the Final Fantasy games after X are lower in quality.  I know this to be true when I see mini-games disappearing, towns disappearing,  exploration disappearing, a literal gauntlet play through, quantity of things to do disappearing, dialogue becoming verbose and ridiculous, character development becoming amateurish, and stories becoming convoluted and nonsensical.  I can see these things.  I can demonstrate these things.  They are not my imagination. One of the most laughable things I have seen people doing is making excuses, such as: 'Oh well, I didn’t really like towns' , 'I didn't really care for NPC' and 'I didn't even play mini-games'.  Am I the only person who realizes how useless that argument is, and how stupid it sounds?  Senix are turning an RPG series into a dumbed down shooter-type series.  The player is becoming an inconvenience to their graphic orgasms.  They are selling out the same fanbase that got them where they are in the first place.

And it isn't just Final Fantasy that has this problem-  Resident Evil, Command and Conquer, and Metal Gear Solid, have all gone worse in recent years.  They are all about dazzling the audience with graphics, and to hell with quality game-play or decent pacing.  Who cares, right?  It sells.  I despair at the number of people who have been sucked into this and buy these games on the back of nostalgia.  They are deluding themselves like a religious fanatic would his religion.  Nothing changes when one votes for the same political party, and nothing changes when one continues to buy a game on the back of graphics, hype, fanboyism, or nostalgia. 

I know there are a number of people who genuinely like Final Fantasy XII, XIII, MGS4, Resident Evil 4/5.  They can like them all they want, but those games are a shadow of what came before.  They are lacking in the very things that MADE them what they are.  When one tears out engaging puzzles, suspense, and a haunting soundtrack from Resident Evil- it isn't Resident Evil.  When one makes a game a heap of nostalgia with 100 lengthy cut scenes,  rips out all the fun sneaking aspects, and makes it a near first person shooter- it is no longer Metal Gear Solid.  When one sacrifices tactics and brainpower, for graphics and explosions- it is no longer Command and Conquer.  And when one f*cking well rips out what makes a jRPG a jRPG, it is no longer what I fell in love with. 

People can like these 'new' games all they want, but don't tell me I should accept it, or see it as normal, or god-forbid- an 'innovation'.  It isn't.  It is just a simple, easy way for them to make money, and your enjoyment comes second.  Now, the usual response to this is to point out that all companies care about money, and whilst that is true, there used to be a decent balance.  There used to be a striving for creativity and quality.  That balance has firmly shifted to the money side, and it is as plain as a pair of tits.

I have also realized that the next generation consoles have had a huge effect on the quality of games being released today.  Once upon a time, graphics could be a talking point, but not usually a game seller.  The media the games came on, and the power of the system itself, restricted what could and could not be done.  Final Fantasy came on three CDs because of the FMVs.  Those FMVs had to be carefully chosen for specific places, and the game had to have more going on than just video sequences.  The graphics could not carry the game, they could only enhance it.  Likewise, a DVD did not allow the game designers to do as they pleased with Final Fantasy X. 

But then 50GB Blu-Ray discs and powerful processors arrived.  Now you have a company that can do as it pleases-  Amazing sequences can be so frequent that they end up thinking less about design.  The term here is 'art from adversity', and this is a key factor in what is lacking in today's games.  A company has to have responsibility when it is given that much freedom.  It isn't as easy as you might think.  It takes a balanced individual to realize that, sometimes, more is less.  Hideo Kojima certainly doesn't realize that.  He thinks that when you have a 50GB Blu-ray disc, it's really just a challenge to see how much of it you can fill up, even if the end user has to then spend half of their time installing compressed data from the disc.

Finally, we come to the 'professional reviewers'.  When I saw that Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XII had gained so much praise, I naturally wanted to know why the professional reviewers missed massive, glaring issues with the games.  Frequently, I see a tactic of completely ignoring the story in a story-based game, or filling up the review with verbose waffle.  The only conclusion I can make is that either these companies are infested with fanboys themselves, or are scared of a negative backlash, or are in the pocket of big business.  Possibly all 3.

What reviewer can gloss over the story like it doesn't matter to an RPG?  What reviewer can give a game 40/40 or 10/10 when there is so much wrong with it?  Very few games are '10/10', but most of these 'experts' don't have the balls to mention any of the issues, and the fanbase parrot along nodding. It seems that graphics, and the brand name, will get you far even with the professionals.  Just slap in dazzling graphics, call it Final Fantasy, and watch it sell like hot cakes.  Don't bother giving me a full, impartial break-down of how you arrived at those insane scores, instead, crap out verbose waffle about graphics, innovation, style and presentation.

Those are the main reasons I see for the demise of Final Fantasy and other game series.  The phrase now is 'Quick buck. Don't give a f*ck.'  Final Fantasy has become a victim of its own success.

DLPB

« Last Edit: 2015-12-15 01:19:59 by DLPB »

ultima espio

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #1 on: 2011-12-27 21:17:59 »
Feel better? :)

DLPB_

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #2 on: 2011-12-27 21:23:17 »
Kinda... but FF has been dead to me a long time, so not really all that much.

dkma841

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #3 on: 2011-12-27 21:41:21 »
I actually enjoyed reading all that thanks for sharing!, but i thought you said in another dated old thread about you never bought final fantasy 13 and said just be watching some youtube vids (i think) you decided not to buy it?.
Final fantasy x-2 lol i did the same thing pre-ordered with so much anticipation played it got angry didn't play it for like an year then decided to give it a go again and got stuck somewhere at the near end boss then didn't bother so just read,watched spoilers.
Akso i think the newer ff series is getting ruined because of what i think is to blame sakaguchi leaving, greed with money  and this generation people what they all think about which is graphics and new features/technology etc.
« Last Edit: 2011-12-27 21:46:41 by e1sunz »

DLPB_

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #4 on: 2011-12-27 21:46:08 »
That is true, I extensively researched, including videos :)  I have never bought it, although since I have played a bit on cousins PS3 (and I hated it).  I no longer have a PS3, I sold it after MGS4.  After FFXII, Advent Children and FFX-2, I made sure never to be fooled again by FF. 

I haven't played any of the FF spin offs either... dirge, crisis core, before crisis or any other crap.  I can see another one coming soon too.

Also...  have you seen the state of this cash machine?  No wonder quality has taken a nose dive.

Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Final Fantasy XIII-3
Final Fantasy Versus XIII (only just started proper production)
Final Fantasy Type-0

Known as
ファブラ ノヴァ クリスタリス ファイナルファンタジー
Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy

スーパーアルティメートウオーゴッドスプリームカッシュイン
Super ultimate war god supreme cash in!
« Last Edit: 2011-12-27 22:44:16 by DLPB »

blueknavish

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #5 on: 2011-12-28 00:09:54 »
this is why im not buying ffxiii-2. in the teaser, it actually says something like "multiple paths to explore!" lmao

DLPB_

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #6 on: 2011-12-28 00:12:31 »
That sums up where this great series has ended up... a talking point is now getting something even an idiot would have expected from a RPG once over.  Imagine that multiple paths to explore has become a selling point...

blueknavish

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #7 on: 2011-12-28 00:46:59 »
i know this is random but i wish they had a ff7 mmo with similiar gameplay style to gw2

Vgr

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #8 on: 2011-12-28 01:35:14 »
Dan, you have been flamed around the forums for saying such stuff without clear arguments. I, though, have been following you since the beginning in this, and I totally agree.

Good example of Blu-Ray discs is the fact that it can be as few as 1 Gb, or even less, and still be awesome. I'm constantly watching some Vocaloid stuff that occupy around 7 Gb on a Blu-Ray disc. That leaves a big empty hole, doesn't it? They do not even need to fill it all for it to be good.

What's the point of the so-called FFX HD? Money. Only the f*cking money. Would Sakaguchi come back, this would change back for the best.

Any of you ever watched Tron : Legacy? At one point, the main character is in his father's old building. His father disappeared, but the company still runs. At one point, the new president says that :

"The idea to freely distribute our software disappeared with Flynn. Now we're just trying to get money."

That sums it up. Congrats for making this post dan :)

Err, I began typing this post right after you made it but had to leave...

Furzball

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #9 on: 2011-12-28 03:10:21 »
It is a wonder that now a lot more smaller and more independent game companies catch my eye then big companies. Heck only big companies I watch anymore are Bethesda and blizzard. I think at this point the unreal engine owns independent games pretty well. I think that the game industry may be moving into an era where simple works best. I mean, look at the success of alot of iPhone and iPad games. Dark meadows, infinity blade, angry birds, and other quick scoring games are the success. Nowadays, enjoying a good rpg is like reading a book. With work, family, and other daily life, it is hard to get the time to enjoy such things.

Rather, the few of us that have the time to enjoy it, it is hard to find new stuff to suit our tastes. So now a lot of us have turned to modding, programming, graphics, and use of free game engines to try and create games that are good works in our eyes. Just like when only elite few were artists and writers, slowly being the elite few of game development is coming to an end where even kids are putting out award winning works, or people use wysiwyg game builders and make a quick buck.

I don't know if that is a bad or good thing. I mean think about how much any community opened up with the Internet. The art community with deviant art. Flash developers with new grounds. List goes on. And because of that people get to share, experience, and enjoy new ideas. Often for free now. So why not games.

luksy

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #10 on: 2011-12-28 03:30:32 »
Personally I think that developers that "lose" their way only appear to do so, the sad truth of the matter is that they were always this way, except 10-20 years ago they were limited in their vision by the hardware (and software) and so had to innovate elsewhere. CGI was expensive, creativity was cheap.

Just look at some of the biggest franchises that were born in the 80s and 90s, how many of these have ended up in the shitter in the constant push for "cinematic gameplay". Video games are not bloody films! I'm looking at you Kojima! That isn't to say that all film/game hybrids suck, but I sure as hell don't have the patience anymore to sit through incessant cutscenes unless they are the opening or ending (yeah I know, 30 year old gamer stereotype).

Which brings me to my second point: we are getting older, we will always be biased towards what we grew up with, you are always wearing rose-colored glasses, not matter how much you like to think you aren't. This always needs to be taken into account. This year game-wise has been one of the best in history, and yet if I think back to the late 90's it almost seems like every year was like this, which just isn't true; that's just how adolescent memories are, vague and naive.

It's no coincidence that gameplay-wise the real innovation is in the indie scene (oh god I'm a hipster gamer), the video game market has simply reached it's inevitable mass-market goal. There will always be the occasional gem even in the big-budget titles, but otherwise they will always cater to the lowest common denominator, because that's just how things are in mass-market business.

DLPB_

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #11 on: 2011-12-28 03:34:34 »
That is depressingly true...

Furzball

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #12 on: 2011-12-28 04:45:00 »
Only cinematic games I tend to like are the old final fantasies we like(7,8,9,10) and metal gear games.

Yeah at this point I agree. Rose colored glasses seem to be the the in style for us oldie retros.

Ishtaria

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #13 on: 2011-12-28 12:07:39 »
It's not just role-playing games but games in general which are lacking in creativity and originality. Your fps map design pic summed up the general state of things perfectly.

Jaitsu

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #14 on: 2011-12-28 13:46:10 »
Not going to agree, but not going to argue. you like what you like.

dkma841

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #15 on: 2011-12-28 17:46:22 »
Hmm still not sure if i should pre-order Final Fantasy Versus Xiii it's nothing like Final Fantasy Xiii and 2 its a bit like Kingdom Hearts as far as i can see in youtube videos

DLPB_

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #16 on: 2011-12-28 20:17:22 »
There is never any rush...  you just wait for 2 weeks, look at real youtube videos and read reviews (make sure to put onus on reviews that are scored 5-8, as they are generally fairer).  Then make your decision.  If after that you end up not liking the game, at least you can say you researched it.  There is nothing worse than having an expectation that gets shattered.

dkma841

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #17 on: 2011-12-28 20:37:38 »
Hmm that makes sense yeah i'll wait and see, thanks

Giullio

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #18 on: 2011-12-28 21:25:17 »
I agree with most of your arguments, with only one exception.

I believe Resident Evil 4 has evolved, sure it's not scary anymore and may have a poor history and poor puzzles, but the gameplay is much better than the past series, in fact, RE4 for me was so much fun that I completed it six times, one friend of mine done it twelve times. So i agree that the games are becoming shallow but in the case of RE4 you need to agree that the gameplay system is better.

Final Fantasy X-2, was one of my first PS2 games, I used to play PS2 at a friend house until I bought my own ps2, I played FF10 with him, so I did the same shit you did, bought without thinking, in fact, I played nearly 30 hours expecting to somewhere in the game to improve, I was very young then and heartbroken :,<. I bought FF12 and, well comparing to the X-2, the 12 were much better but... not good as X. So I lost my faith around there, after 12 I realized that the sequell that i once loved was dead.

Squarenix is not listening to the fans anymore, or they did some sort of brainwash... On the other hand, nintendo Shigeru Myamoto ALWAYS listen to his fans. when he did Zelda wind waker the fans complained about the graphics, so what he did?
Twilight princess, with the old N64 graphics...

The truth is what everybody already knows, Square enix don't give a damn, they only care about money. So, i sugest, try to find  another games, don't rely in one franchise... Play what you like not what have a nice name. It's trully a shame to watch such an amazing game to die, but it happened.

DLPB_

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #19 on: 2011-12-28 21:44:51 »
My point was that it is no longer Resident Evil.  Call it something else, I am all cool with it.  I hated it, because I expected a survival horror with great puzzles... and that is what the game tells you it is going to be.  They are using the name to sell it, and that is deceitful.  All my favourite franchises have gone same way, so after FF7 mods, I will be going back to older PS games and PS2 games.  There are  a lot of good games back then I never finished :)
« Last Edit: 2011-12-28 22:03:26 by DLPB »

KaidenJames

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #20 on: 2011-12-28 22:23:38 »
DL, I agree with you about Resident Evil to a degree. It was presented as a Survival Horror game and wasn't really one. BUT, the game was A LOT of fun to play as Giullio said. It's one of my favorites next to the first two games. Also what Giullio said about Nintendo is true as well. I started playing the Zelda series with A Link To The Past on SNES. And I have enjoyed every Zelda game since then, and the ones before it (except The Adventures of Link. A side scrolling Zelda? lol) I wish that Square could take a page from Nintendo's book but I don't think that they would. Side note, I just found my copy of Dragon Quest VIII for the PS2. I think i'm going to pop that bad boy in and give it a whirl again.

luksy

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #21 on: 2011-12-28 23:54:31 »
I'll agree with RE4 on some points, but for me it was an excellent game in its own right and it was a gamble for Capcom that paid off in the end, and a breath of fresh air in a series that desperately needed it. Change is not necessarily a bad thing, look at the latest Batman trilogy for example, I think very few people would say that it isn't Batman because there are no "SOCK!" & "BIFF!" screens during the fighting. Similarly, if you're a fan of camp 60s Batman, The Dark Knight doesn't retroactively ruin the older series for you.

Having said that, as you say it really doesn't feel like classic Resident Evil: the story is god awful, even by RE standards, it's far too linear, and I really don't remember feeling particularly scared. What it was though was entertaining, and while I'm not going to say that the absolute essence of gaming is to have "fun", I think it plays a pretty important role.

kicker

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #22 on: 2011-12-29 00:47:14 »
If you think about it since square-soft turned into square-enix the final fantasy quality dropped a lot. The thing is that they managed to buy -off other smaller or going-bankrupt companies and made much more money that they were used too. Now they just sit back and relax while final fantasy is turning into a 80 year old lady with cancer and syphilis.I can still remember the first trailers of final fantasy XIII and i can tell you that for some reason i didn't like it one bit and that's why i never bought it. A friend of mine lend it to me and told me that in the beggining is bad but later it gets good. When i was at the final boss i called him and told him were i was and asked him if i was now in the middle of the game and it would get good....He told me i was in the end...Imagine the shock!!lol. Call me stubborn but still for some reason i still have a little tiny bit of hope for ffversus xiii. I think they're going to put more effort into it 1) because final fantasy xiii was such a disaster and final fantasy xiii-2 a much bigger one and because the fans have been waiting for the game for so long that if it turns out bad i think it will be the worst selling rpg game of the last 10 years..As fore resident evil 4 i think it was really good and a little bit scary and kinda difficult in contrast with rs5(which was boring as far as i am concerned) although you can't compare it with resident evil 1 and 2. I mean come on!A freakin door opening slowly doing all that noise. Sudden zombies and crows around. OUT OF BULLETS AND HERBS!! That was epic. These games actually had you scratching your head thinking how to solve riddles puzzles etc. Games now are pretty obvious. You know where to go cause there is only one path lying ahead of you. They lack the 'What if i go from that route first. Maybe a secret character lying inside a coffin or a thieving little tomboy". They used to say that playing computer games etc enchanced your reflexes,senses etc. Right now i only see a lot of kids getting damper every year. I do agree with you in everything you said DLPB and i like the fact you are passionate enough about this to speak your mind about it evey so often.

DLPB_

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #23 on: 2011-12-29 00:57:57 »
Aside from missing a paragraph or 2, that was a great post, Kicker!  8-)

StickySock

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Re: What Went Wrong?
« Reply #24 on: 2011-12-29 01:04:35 »
RE4 was a great game, albeit not being as much like previous resident evils, but something took a step backwards in the series from that game that went unnoticed by most, and that is the unnecessary intro cutscenes for every new enemy type. The old resident evils would just have an enemy there or randomly pop out at you and it gave you a sense of uneasiness through the entirety of the game. Eliminate the cutscenes and those feelings could return.

RE5's problems come from the fact that it is basically RE4 with HD graphics. I mean all the levels from RE5 are in RE4 except in Spain instead of Africa. Village > Swamp > Ruins > Facility. Salazar and Irving look and sound almost the same. RE4 was better in every way except graphics and Co-op.

If they would have made the ideas for the plot and environments a little more original, and took out those stupid intro videos, the game would have been much better and much more horror-filled. Playing the dlc inside the mansion is a perfect example like a demo of the what the game could have been. Play it on the hardest difficulty and the enemy's will spawn in randomized places, breaking into a room you thought they wouldn't be able to enter, and your ammo feels increasingly sparse like the old games. If they would have put more enemy types and actually made a game that way, it would have been awesome.

FFX-2 was horrible. Pretending it never happened is the only way I can live with myself after playing it.

FFXII had a terrible battle system, and the main character was a homo. Penelo and Vaan had so little to do with the main storyline they both could have been omitted without any consequence on the story. That actually would save the game in my opinion if it wasn't for the awful battle system. The battle system had no strategy, and no, gambits do not count. Setting some basic commands for your characters and then watching fights is boring and not innovative by any means. The game expected you to grind your characters until they were strong enough to auto battle the next series of enemies, and to make it worse, the leveling in the game was incredibly slow, possibly the slowest in the series. It could take hours to level only a couple times.

That being said the background story for the game was actually quite good, and most of the other characters are quite likable. The environments are large and there are quite a bit of extra items, dungeons, enemies, and espers to collect.

FF13 usually has polarized opinions either hating or loving the battle system, which I think most revolves around the auto battle function, which is horrible or great depending on how you use it. The paradigms are the most strategic part of the battle, setting them up before battle and knowing when to switch them. For common enemies, you should, although you can spam auto battle, try all different types of attacks, paying attention to what enemy it is, and find there weakness. Once you know an enemy's weakness, either by fighting or by librascope, the auto battle is helpful in quickly selecting attacks you would do and saving you time of actually hitting them one by one while your atb gauge remains dormant. Basically people bash the battle system probably because the rest of the game was so awful that they could not push on to pulse, where the battles become interesting and complex. The battle system for 13 may not be the best but it is good and way above 12's.

That being said, the story is also hit and miss. The background story for the game is great, with interesting relationships between the falcie and the lcie, but the plot for the characters is quite the opposite. All the dialogue in the game is boring and amateurish, and all the emotions the characters feel seem unnatural to the situations and forced on them. This is especially true when they encounter their eidolons, which basically happen around the most ridiculous soap-opera drama moments in the game. Every character's motives seem unrealistic or ambiguous which only furthers breaking the immersion. It gets to the point where reading the data logs is way more interesting than watching the cutscenes.

The linearity of the game is a huge problems, and there is little to no exploration until you get to pulse, which some claim is booming with it, but really it is just how the entire game should have been from the beginning. Too little too late is the best phrase to sum up how the game's exploration is.

FF12 was an okay game with a lot of good things going for it, but was held back by two characters and a shitty battle system. If you have beaten the game, imagine it without vaan and penelo and with a battle system like ff10's and the game would have been a lot better.

FF13 was also an okay game with a good battle system, but the game just seemed like a miss. It's like there were a lot of great ideas that were ruined by linearity and poor story telling in an actually pretty interesting setting.

In conclusion, 12 and 13 may not be as good as 7-10 but there is enough there to give hope that they still could potentially make another great, and as long as they have that potential I wouldn't count out the brand just yet. FFVS13 looks like the game that will tell whether brand has truly died or not.

P.S. When I think about it, there are a lot of characters that break the experience somewhat in Final Fantasy in general. It's like, nearly every game has some glaring flaw with some character that is extremely annoying. FF7 has cait sith, FF8 has too many to count but Irvine, Selphie, and Laguna are prime examples, ff9 has the big toad chef thing and zidane's character design (personality not included, Zidane is an awesome character in the story he just looks retarded), ff10 has wakka's stupid blitz ball as a weapon, ff12 has vaan and penelo, ff13 has hope and vanille. Change those things about those games and the people who didn't like them would probably like them a lot more.