Author Topic: Final Fantasy VIII (Modder's Awakening) (Read 78287 times)

Prince Lex · « **Reply #75 on:** 2009-07-25 11:54:46 »

I agree. I noticed this immediately when I first played FF8 for PC, having been used to the PSX version for so many years.

Why is the world map on PC so graphically inferior? It's irritating. I can't play the PSX version anymore because of the low-res text. It doesn't look like low-res software rendering text, it's much much worse!

seifertemp · « **Reply #76 on:** 2009-07-25 12:00:32 »

I didn't notice this but yes there seems to be a definate drop in quality from the psx version. Hopefully the textures will be restored. How difficult would this be?

BlitzNCS · « **Reply #77 on:** 2009-07-25 12:08:20 »

hopefully not too difficult.

anyway, this is what i meant by the difference in software and hardware rendering

Software:

Direct3D:

Prince Lex · « **Reply #78 on:** 2009-07-25 12:47:27 »

I see what you mean about the textures being smoothed out when they really shouldn't be, but i'd still prefer to play in hardware mode as I think it looks better regardless. Do you have an example that isn't the world map?

Colly · « **Reply #79 on:** 2009-07-25 13:24:04 »

Quote from: NeoCloudstrife on 2009-07-25 11:20:46

Those screenshots are both from the same mode (hardware). trust me, i know, i REALLY hate that look. I'll get a screencap of proper software mode later, I'm not on my laptop right now.

Exactly. Software mode looks OK for me and if you set High resolution fonts in the ff8config, all the game looks better than in the PSX version (textures on the world map is a little uglier, but no very). Background maps are all the same.

Quote

but actually, you're right. seems the textures in the PSX version are at a MUCH higher resolution than in the PC version.
and all i meant my "smoothing textures" is just blurring low-res textures to cover up loss of detail. which is the effect you see in the Direct3D rendered FF8PC's world map.

Hardware mode on FF8PC is stupid.

I always choosing Software mode, even if there is more "pixelize" graphic (but this game is from 1999, pixels are in standard

)

Textures in the PSX version aren't in the higher resolution - it's all the same. What's more, textures for menu, buttons, etc. are in higher resolution in the PC version. 'Unfortunately', our computer monitors have higher resolution than our old TV's

But look on font in the PC version - it looks really better than in the PSX version (high res of course).

Quote

...but now that i've seen the PSX FF8's world map textures, i agree we should find the texture file(s) from the PSX version and somehow transfer them, they have to have at least double the detail the PSX version has.
and actually, i probably wont be able to play FF8 again until we do.

I found all textures and there is no difference between versions, all textures are the same. You can ask Eidos, why the same textures looks uglier in the PC version hardware mode (and even software mode).

It's only rendering fault. Launcher (published on this forum) resolves some problems.

Really sorry, but transferring textures is useless

Prince Lex · « **Reply #80 on:** 2009-07-25 14:26:46 »

How do you know the textures are the same in both PC and PSX for world map? Surely they'd render the way they were supposed to, at least in software mode, if this was the case.

Colly · « **Reply #81 on:** 2009-07-25 15:00:25 »

Quote from: Prince Lex on 2009-07-25 14:26:46

How do you know the textures are the same in both PC and PSX for world map?

I translated FF8 PC into Polish, including graphics, for example textures in the battles, backgrounds, etc. Now I'm converting this translation to the PSX version and I know how to get all textures. See here if you can't believe:
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8461.0

Translated background in the PSX version:

I saw all textures in the PSX version and PC version, so I know what I'm saying. 95% of the files are the same for PC and PSX version

Quote

Surely they'd render the way they were supposed to, at least in software mode, if this was the case.

Only Eidos know, why PC rendering is worst than PSX rendering.

BlitzNCS · « **Reply #82 on:** 2009-07-25 15:14:44 »

wow. i see. it's just that screenshot rinoa posted really looked much better than any results i can get. that is really weird that they would do that O.o

EDIT: yeah, you're right. i've seen both versions of those textures now, and they're no different. that's REALLY weird.

Quote from: Prince Lex on 2009-07-25 12:47:27

I see what you mean about the textures being smoothed out when they really shouldn't be, but i'd still prefer to play in hardware mode as I think it looks better regardless. Do you have an example that isn't the world map?

yeah, hang on.

Makubex (Mendelevium) · « **Reply #83 on:** 2009-07-26 02:25:41 »

Any one know where I should start looking for a fix then?
-.-

Cause I WILL make this game better... I am not giving up Until I get it the way I can enjoy the game visually..
The story line is good as is!

Makubex (Mendelevium) · « **Reply #84 on:** 2009-07-26 18:37:34 »

I took another look... to see if i wanted to play the game in software mode.... it looks worse in my opinion..
take a look

Software:

Hardware Mode:

Here is the PSX version:

The textures look very gritty..
and only half smoothed.. less than half..
-.-

Maybe Aali's drivers will solve the problem.. when/ If they come out that is.
XD

BlitzNCS · « **Reply #85 on:** 2009-07-26 18:50:07 »

this is REALLY weird. what on earth could be causing seemingly random pixellisation of the world map textures? the textures are EXACTLY the same in both versions, i know they are.
....hmmm

Makubex (Mendelevium) · « **Reply #86 on:** 2009-07-26 18:54:20 »

I know..
I makes me sad... I am conversing with a few of my friends..
and they said that i may have to re-code the whole game....... which i am not sure i believe..
and i don't think i am willing to do something so tedious..
-.-

And its their guess not a certainty... I hope aali's new driver's come out and fix the rendering issue..
hopefully......

well i think i am just going to work on something else at the moment...
xD

titeguy3 · « **Reply #87 on:** 2009-07-26 19:06:05 »

Hrm.. well. The textures on the PC version do look pretty awful, but short of recoding the whole game, another solution would be to try to find out where exactly the textures are stored, and redraw them one by one so that they look great without smoothing.

That's ideal if you ask me. You can make 'em look better than the PSX version.

EDIT: does it seem to anybody like the texures are zoomed/magnified in the PC version vs PSX? take a look at the dock...thing on the left in those screenshots. The struts are visibly separated in the PSX cap, but they look scrunched together, almost magnified in the PC caps.

Makubex (Mendelevium) · « **Reply #88 on:** 2009-07-26 19:34:44 »

Quote from: X-Dina on 2009-07-26 19:24:42

Quote from: NeoCloudstrife on 2009-07-26 18:38:00
Hell yeah!
Epic as always, Aali. perhaps this will fix the rendering problems as described here?

I see what's happening in that tread, the PC FF8 seems to be failing to load the hirez textures on the worldmap.

The world map uses 2 sets of textures, low and high, for long distance and short distance rendering. You can see it easily in a PSP port of PSX FF8, as soon as you enter the world map the low rez textures are preloaded, and a split second later they're updated to the hirez. I think that process is failing on the PC version.

Hope that helps.

If this is indeed the case, Where do i find the process that loads the hi-res texture....
Because if that is the problem.. then it would be easy to fix the code...
well much easier than re-coding the game or replacing all the textures.. one at a time..
-.-

Aali · « **Reply #89 on:** 2009-07-26 20:01:21 »

The same scene without all that nasty filtering;

As you can see, the texels are HUGE, and much of the detail from the PSX version simply isn't there.

Makubex (Mendelevium) · « **Reply #90 on:** 2009-07-26 20:02:46 »

So there is no way to fix it?
O.o

I am confused.
hahah.

Aali · « **Reply #91 on:** 2009-07-26 20:09:46 »

Of course there's a way to fix it.
Where are the worldmap textures stored for the PC version?

Timu Sumisu · « **Reply #92 on:** 2009-07-26 20:19:29 »

those are some mighty big pixels texturing balamb... i figure either its the textures might have been downscaled for pc (unlikely) or they get downscaled on their way onscreen.

Makubex (Mendelevium) · « **Reply #93 on:** 2009-07-26 20:20:51 »

I am not sure .. where the world map textures are stored in FF8 PC..
-.-

I only did the avatars.. i will look for you tho

And I am on the verge of figuring out how to replace the char models in FF8
i got Squall out of the game... in 3Ds. format...
he looks so blocky in blender/3ds max

xD

The only problem..
is i am uncertain as of how to save the format as MCH (Macromedia Xtra Cache File ?)...
i can get it out..
hahah..
i will tinker with it.

ACK! Problem... I am trying to find a program that can save in MCH.. there has to be one out there, right?
They did make FF8 after all

when i open the model in max..
and apply the texture..
both the model and the texture look srewy

here are a couple of screenies

BlitzNCS · « **Reply #94 on:** 2009-07-26 21:07:31 »

Quote from: Aali on 2009-07-26 20:09:46

Of course there's a way to fix it.
Where are the worldmap textures stored for the PC version?

WMX.obj
Located in the "world.fs" archive

But seriously, Colly is right, the textures are the exact same. scan it for TIM files with PSicture, and then do the same with FF8Discx.IMG. they look identical. and what's more, palletted -.-

Makubex (Mendelevium) · « **Reply #95 on:** 2009-07-26 21:10:33 »

I just realized.. that squall is a pancake... the reason the textures aren't looking right
xD

how do i fix that...
i am not so good in 3D

i scale the z axis right?

actually I can't tell one way or another..

Hey Neo
you said you were good with max

you want to take a look?

BlitzNCS · « **Reply #96 on:** 2009-07-26 21:16:45 »

Quote from: Rinoa on 2009-07-26 20:20:51

I am not sure .. where the world map textures are stored in FF8 PC..
-.-

I only did the avatars.. i will look for you tho

And I am on the verge of figuring out how to replace the char models in FF8
i got Squall out of the game... in 3Ds. format...
he looks so blocky in blender/3ds max

xD

The only problem..
is i am uncertain as of how to save the format as MCH (Macromedia Xtra Cache File ?)...
i can get it out..
hahah..
i will tinker with it.

ACK! Problem... I am trying to find a program that can save in MCH.. there has to be one out there, right?
They did make FF8 after all

lol, it's a lot more complicated than you think. the MCH file is a cutsom development format (developed by square?) and as such, you cant just "convert" to that format with a commercial converting tool. someone's gotta come along, crack the format and make a program, something that only a select few people can do.
and even if you can get a model FROM mch TO a more common form-implement a model would require getting the format EXACTLY right. (something which koral did?)
anyway, what needs to be done is somebody has to decode the MCH formaat, to ret and make a custom converter tool. and that might be harder than the FF7 format considering FF8 uses, at least partically, mesh deformation - type bones.

Quote from: Rinoa on 2009-07-26 21:10:33

I just realized.. that squall is a pancake... the reason the textures aren't looking right
xD

how do i fix that...
i am not so good in 3D

i scale the z axis right?

actually I can't tell one way or another..

Hey Neo
you said you were good with max

you want to take a look?

im guessing you used something like 3D ripper DX to rip that model?
if that's the case, most likely you dont have a Z axiz to scale.
i doubt this is the best way to move forward with FF8 model customisation, but if you want, i'll take a look at it, i guess.

BlitzNCS · « **Reply #97 on:** 2009-07-26 21:19:06 »

@ no auto-merge feature on these forums.

Makubex (Mendelevium) · « **Reply #98 on:** 2009-07-26 21:22:19 »

Quote from: NeoCloudstrife on 2009-07-26 21:16:45

Quote from: Rinoa on 2009-07-26 20:20:51
I am not sure .. where the world map textures are stored in FF8 PC..
-.-

I only did the avatars.. i will look for you tho

And I am on the verge of figuring out how to replace the char models in FF8
i got Squall out of the game... in 3Ds. format...
he looks so blocky in blender/3ds max

xD

The only problem..
is i am uncertain as of how to save the format as MCH (Macromedia Xtra Cache File ?)...
i can get it out..
hahah..
i will tinker with it.

ACK! Problem... I am trying to find a program that can save in MCH.. there has to be one out there, right?
They did make FF8 after all

lol, it's a lot more complicated than you think. the MCH file is a cutsom development format (developed by square?) and as such, you cant just "convert" to that format with a commercial converting tool. someone's gotta come along, crack the format and make a program, something that only a select few people can do.
and even if you can get a model FROM mch TO a more common form-implement a model would require getting the format EXACTLY right. (something which koral did?)
anyway, what needs to be done is somebody has to decode the MCH formaat, to ret and make a custom converter tool. and that might be harder than the FF7 format considering FF8 uses, at least partically, mesh deformation - type bones.

Quote from: Rinoa on 2009-07-26 21:10:33
I just realized.. that squall is a pancake... the reason the textures aren't looking right
xD

how do i fix that...
i am not so good in 3D

i scale the z axis right?

actually I can't tell one way or another..

Hey Neo
you said you were good with max

you want to take a look?
im guessing you used something like 3D ripper DX to rip that model?
if that's the case, most likely you dont have a Z axiz to scale.
i doubt this is the best way to move forward with FF8 model customisation, but if you want, i'll take a look at it, i guess.

I used bit burn to convert mhc to 3ds

I don't think its a pancake..
its just... not rendering right..
or something

check your PM (neo)

Aali · « **Reply #99 on:** 2009-07-26 21:32:22 »

Actually, PSicture doesn't find anything in wmx.obj, however, I did find high-res versions of some textures from wmxset.obj in texl.obj, are these the right ones?

Author Topic: Final Fantasy VIII (Modder's Awakening) (Read 78287 times)

seifertemp