[FF7PC-98] Beacause - FF7 Retranslation (Merged into Reunion, use that instead)

[DLPB_]

Okay people... need your help.  We are left with a tricky decision to make.

Do we stick to accuracy here.  The game calls the hole down into the planet a "Great Cavity".  The "North Crater" or sometimes just "Crater" is the opening to the hole, the part you see on the world map.

An accurate and none literal sounding way around this is to call the hole "Great Chasm" and also keep the crater.  The full title would then be "Great Chasm, Crater" as a field name.

"North Crater" and "Great Chasm" would be seen in dialogue.

The bad thing about this is the confusion it may create for people.  My option would be to call all references to that area "Great Crater"

What say you?

[obesebear]

I like Great Cavity.  Gives the feeling there's a hole where there shouldn't be.

[DLPB_]

Here

This is the completed (or as near to it as it ever gets) documentation.  It would be good if a few people could go through this, point out anything they don't like, ask questions, or make any other comments.  I understand it may take ages, but I am the poor sod who had to make it and research it.

oh and Intelligence > Intellect.  Intellect is much better in game too.

[DLPB_]

I am now running through entire game up to where we are at...  (Junon)...  I have made extensive changes to the earlier dialogue... which I made when I was naive.  Sounds better now and the beginner's hall is a vast improvement.  It is lookin' f*ckin' good. 

[knightsoftheround]

I'm only going into this much detail because you asked for it very specifically. I super duper respect what you guys are doing, and I'm afraid I'm sounding a bit like a squeaky wheel cause 90% of what I say are potential corrections and such. So uh, just thanking you again for doing this awesome thing before I go into this. XD

Meena Wallace - Unless there's a specific reason for romanizing her name as Meena, I'd go with Mina. That spelling looks more natural and maintains the pronunciation. I recognize you might have gone with Meena to maintain a more "exotic" feel though, as much of the names in Squaresoft/Enix games attempt to carry.

Tifa's Father - I recommend changing this to Tifa's Dad. Papa is rather informal - not keeping it exact makes sense because of how childish "papa" is in English, but Father carries a more formal feeling. I'd only have used it if the Japanese said "otosama" rather than "papa" - or even "otosan", but not "papa".

Pagoda of the 5 Masters - I'd go with Sages or Wise Men - I agree that Mighty can be dropped, but looking at other translations of this sort of thing, Sages or Wise Men feels more accurate.

All W/Double with the "Double" Lost - Did you remove the "Double" due to space constraints? I feel like too much is being lost if you lose the double. W is used to mean double in Japanese slang, which I suspect you know. If you can put it back in, I think it would be better. But I may be arguing too strong for literal over context with this.

Wheelie Advance - I think Attack should be kept instead of a change, but that's total opinion. XD

As for the Cavity, Crater, Chasm thing... I actually think you should keep Cavity. There's an implication with Cavity, an implication of not only a hole/chasm but of an infection. Given the game, it might do to keep that implicaton.

[DLPB_]

Thanks for your input!

Meena Wallace - Unless there's a specific reason for romanizing her name as Meena, I'd go with Mina. That spelling looks more natural and maintains the pronunciation. I recognize you might have gone with Meena to maintain a more "exotic" feel though, as much of the names in Squaresoft/Enix games attempt to carry.

Yeah, Mina is probably right...  I changed to Meena to avoid the confusion with "Elmina"

Tifa's Father - I recommend changing this to Tifa's Dad. Papa is rather informal - not keeping it exact makes sense because of how childish "papa" is in English, but Father carries a more formal feeling. I'd only have used it if the Japanese said "otosama" rather than "papa" - or even "otosan", but not "papa".

Luksy also flayed me for this one... but seeing "Dad" in a dialogue box telling you which character it is strikes me as odd.  Tifa does call her father dad, but these are the dialogue box headings.  It would be like seeing a dialogue box of "Granny" instead of "Grandma".

Pagoda of the 5 Masters - I'd go with Sages or Wise Men - I agree that Mighty can be dropped, but looking at other translations of this sort of thing, Sages or Wise Men feels more accurate.

Mighty was dropped only because of space limits.  There is a character limit.  Sages... not so sure. The people in the pagoda are masters of various techniques and Sage is usually changed in western games.  In FFX Sage was changed to Maester for example.

All W/Double with the "Double" Lost - Did you remove the "Double" due to space constraints? I feel like too much is being lost if you lose the double. W is used to mean double in Japanese slang, which I suspect you know. If you can put it back in, I think it would be better. But I may be arguing too strong for literal over context with this.

If you mean like "Double machinegun", yeah the weapon I removed to just machinegun.  In menu, Double Item etc are maintained.  I have not changed the materia names (although I did consider using "dual").   Which ones do you mean specifically?

Wheelie Advance - I think Attack should be kept instead of a change, but that's total opinion. XD

I will look at the move some day... when I get some time haha

As for the Cavity, Crater, Chasm thing... I actually think you should keep Cavity. There's an implication with Cavity, an implication of not only a hole/chasm but of an infection. Given the game, it might do to keep that implicaton.

Your vote is so counted.  Obesebear also agrees with that.  I and luksy... not so much   Although I do agree the choice of Cavity may very well be as intended as you say.  This is a tough one!

[knightsoftheround]

On the Double thing, I actually totally just checked on the machinegun and then decided to cover any other omissions that apparently weren't there. Dual would be a good compromise, in my opinion! It feels wrong to lose it completely.

If you do end up changing it from Cavity, I'd go to Chasm so that it remains separate.

[DLPB_]

Japanese apparently does not even need to be literally grandma grandad, it just means old.

Code: [Select]

Honeybee Manor
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heeh…”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heeeh…”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“What's wrong?
You keep sighing…”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heh…
It's just…”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“It's not about the
room again,is it?”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heh… well,
I know our son must have spent
a bomb renting all this for us,but…”{NEW}
“…A Big round bed… gorgeous tub.
I'm just not used to it,that's all…”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“Oh,stop it will you?
It doesn't get much
better than this below city.”{NEW}
“People would bite your
hand off to come here.”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Oh yeah…
What's the name of that
company our son works for?”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“You've not forgotten
again,have you?”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heeh…
I'm surprising myself these days …”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“It's the Shin-Ra Company…
Shin-Ra!
The biggest company in Midgar!”
------------------------------
Old Man
“…It must really be something!?”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“Of course it is!”{NEW}
“He's doing really well.
Told me he'd been made
head of a whole department.”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“It's thanks to him
that we're here.”{NEW}
“You should be grateful.”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Aye,you're right.”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“Should we go bed?”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Yeah,we need the sleep.”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“Night,love.”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Good night.”
------------------------------
Old Man
“…Zzz…ghh…Zzzz”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“…Zzz…Zzz…”
This will be sent to Lex now.

Oh and for a laugh... the original:

Code: [Select]

Honey Bee Inn
------------------------------
“…wheez…”
------------------------------
“Phew…”
------------------------------
“What's wrong, Grandpa?
You keep sighing.”
------------------------------
“…wheez…puff…
You know, Grandma…”
------------------------------
“Is this the room?”
------------------------------
“…whew…
I know our son rented this
for us and all, but…”{NEW}
“It's too nice for us.
Big round bed, gorgeous tub,
I just can't get comfortable.”
------------------------------
“Don't worry about it.
It's a high class neighborhood,
in the Big City.”{NEW}
“You keep complainin' and
we'll get in trouble.”
------------------------------
“Hey Grandma.
What's the name of the company
our son works for?”
------------------------------
“Oh, Grandpa.
Did you forget again?”
------------------------------
“…heave…
It's getting worse…”
------------------------------
“It's Shinra, you know, Shinra, Inc.?
It's the biggest company in the city.”
------------------------------
“If it's the biggest company,
it must be something.”
------------------------------
“Yeah.
It IS really something.”{NEW}
“He's doing well, and he told me that
he's been promoted to department head.”
------------------------------
“Oh…thanks to him we're
able to stay in a room like this.”
------------------------------
“Yeah, I'm really grateful.”
------------------------------
“Well, you wanna go to sleep?”
------------------------------
“All right…”
------------------------------
“Good night.”
------------------------------
“Yeah, good night.”

[Livesey]

I always make it a point to read the originals before I read your re-translation, every time I do this I catch a glimpse of how hard this project must be, Its like cracking the damn Da Vinci code, anyway brilliant work so far, looking forward to playing the game and understanding what the hell half the people are talking about.

Just out of curiosity can you explain to me how the hell the translation for the guard scorpion got so messed up? Attack when the tails up? ummm... OK *BOOM* -.- my first Final Fantasy 7 experience.

Also to join in on the vote I also agree with Cavity. As mentioned before this implies that it is not supposed to be hear and actually sounds like damage has been dealt.

[DLPB_]

I have no idea how they got the "attack while the tails up" , more than likely they were rushed.  The Honeybee Manor quite clearly is rushed and the translator had no context to go on.  Most of the game was rushed it seems, and not read through or amended.

As for Cavity... I agree it is a much more faithful description, but seeing "Great Cavity" all the time in dialogue may end up sounding very unnatural.

"Everyone, let's head for the Great Cavity"

"Everyone, let's head for the Great Crater"

If I were a person referring to the north crater (the entrance is called crater) I would be inclined to say crater and not refer to the actual hole that exists within the crater.

[Covarr]

I assume it was a typo. If you replace that exclamation point with a comma, it makes far more sense: "Attack while its tail is up, it's gonna counter attack with its laser!"

Although given the one-line-at-a-time limitation they have in battles, they really should've sacrificed the character and personality of the original dialogue for the sake of clarity: "If you attack while its tail is up, it's gonna counter attack with its laser!" Not quite as fluid, but far better for the player.

[DLPB_]

The Japanese isn't ambiguous either.  I used something like

"Watch out! If you attack when the tails up, it'll counterattack with a laser"

[Livesey]

Well I suppose Great Cavity does sound a little off if you use it in a conversation, could you not change the name of the entrance to Great Cavity Entrance? I mean sure it may not be as accurate but I think it has a nicer ring to it.

Also they could have said "Don't attack while its tails up, it will counter attack with it's laser".

[DLPB_]

No because then you have a massive contradiction.  What is used must be for the whole game.

Also they could have said "Don't attack while its tails up, it will counter attack with it's laser".

That would still be bad English because that would be:

Don't attack while its tails up. If you do, it will counterattack with a laser"

[Livesey]

Doi, I can be an idiot at times =P

In that case I'll change my vote to Great Crater. Simply because Great Cavity does sound strange in conversations.

[StickySock]

Edit: I'm glad you changed it from grandma and grandpa to old, for if they are indeed Reeve's parents it would imply Reeve has kids, or siblings that do.

I vote for Great Crater, it sounds better.

In my opinion the silliest character in FF universe... because as a main arc character you cannot suspend disbelief to him.  This is the whole reason that one of my mods aims to write him out of the story completely in favour of a human Shin-Ra Spy.

Awesome. Have you gotten very far on it?

[DLPB_]

I haven't got anywhere with it   Simply because I have to finish translation first...  I have removed cait from the FMV and placed new character in (last FMV has new dialogue, other ones simply cut character out).  I had a new model made also... but no one has helped so far to place it into game for me.  That can come later anyway.


This part was one of the hardest...  Cloud is about to ask if Big Bro is a man (he is dressed as a woman, and Cloud realises).  Aerith covers for him.  In the Japanese game she calls him "beautiful bro" but the only way I could make the scene work and let the audience know that cloud is being covered for is this... and I think it has worked out OK.

{CLOUD}
“Hang on,are you a ma…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“…MAGNIFICENT Bro…”
------------------------------
“Well… they call me Big Bro…
   that's about it… Anyway,
   names aren't important.”

The literal Japanese didn't help...

Are you maybe

Beautiful Bro?

What are you talking about at a time like this?

Older Bro...  Older bro
That's...
You, never mind that

And original English:

{CLOUD}
“Are you…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“THE beautiful Bro?”
------------------------------
“What? You didn't know?
   Always running around here
   sayin' Big Bro' this,
   Big Bro' that…”

[Livesey]

It still amazes me just how much context I missed on my multiple plays through this game. Nice work on the cover up, I'm a fan of it.

[DLPB_]

Same here.... I think the human brain is good at ignoring mistakes if the dialogue makes a rough sense...  Sometimes though I realised big mistakes were being made.  Above... is one of them.  I always thought it sounded wrong.

[spy__dragon]

Hello, I have a question. Could I use your translation as support for our translation? Of course, everybody enter in the credits. But I want to be sure before screw it or something.

Thanks

[DLPB_]

Of course, but Make sure you credit us properly.  DLPB and Luksy and link to this thread.   If you plan on using large chunks of our work, then make that obvious in your credits.

What are you planning to do?

In other news, I had a lot of fun with this.  Yes, I have taken a liberty...  Don simply says "Girl" in japanese, but this gives him some character and the scene some humour

------------------------------
Corneo
“Woo hoo!!
   I've made up my mind!!”{NEW}
“My partner for tonight is…”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This spirited filly!”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This slender sex-bomb!”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This burly beaut!”

[DLPB_]

I have overhauled the localisation from top to bottom.  Should have a release soon.  New release will also include fixes and the non literal menu names and so forth.  A major update.

[spy__dragon]

I am planning translation into Spanish, now I am trying to find out how change graphics, in PC and PSX.
I am seeing many posts and many tools for both.

That scene... is when Don Corneo kidnapped  Elena and Yuffie?
Mm... I still don't understand why the translators put "hobby",
that scene I saw in Japanese text, I know Japanase.

Personally, I would translate as "the hotter (girl)", but I don't know if English speakers could
consider as insult because I am Spanish, the culture is different.

Many thanks for your job

[DLPB_]

I have mentioned it to Luksy but you will have to wait for other things until we have done it ourselves   Too busy.

From what we can see the word hobby is OK there. He is prob referring to the fact that he chooses women now based on tying them up to statues etc.  It is just a joke.

[DLPB_]

I'm sorry I keep adding things here but...  I get a little proud of the improvements. 

Old

Code: [Select]

Reeve
“Sir. If you raise the rates,
the people will lose confidence…”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“It'll be all right.”{NEW}
“The ignorant citizens won't lose confidence,
they'll trust Shinra, Inc. even more.”
New
 

Code: [Select]

Reeve
“Mr. President.
Raising the rates further can only add
to the discontent felt among our citizens.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Don't worry.”{NEW}
“The ignorant fools won't lose
confidence. Far from it,in fact.
They'll trust the company even more
old

Code: [Select]

------------------------------
President Shinra
“What about the Promised Land?
Won't it hinder our plans?”
------------------------------
Hojo
“That's what I need to plan.
The mother is strong…
and yet has her weaknesses.”
------------------------------

new

Code: [Select]

------------------------------
President Shinra
“What about the Promised Land?
Won't this delay hinder our plans?”
------------------------------
Hojo
“…That is my conviction.
Anyway,the girl will be a strong mother…
Though… she does have a few frailties…”
------------------------------