Author Topic: The truth and other lies...  (Read 34885 times)

meesbaker

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #25 on: 2014-11-15 20:26:45 »
@Kaldarasha

Yeah, that's very well possible. There are many possibilities but the cnn footage is definately a lie just like the clarke or the fox chopper broadcast where the nose comes out lol.

What do you think about the police car :D I mean it isn't important but another hint that all media broadcasts were in the hand of the conspiracy. Maybe someone having fun?? I mean how does a backward playing police car come into a news cast? :D

I mean this isn't like a technical mistake someone really made quite an effort to cut that car in just the car layer playing backwards :O It's not someone riding backwards like hell fast there is a car cut in which is playing backwards, the sirenes spin the wrong direction.

Why would anyone do this? Probably having fun while no planes had to be smacked into broadcasts?

http://youtu.be/0Yl0K6kC4B4
« Last Edit: 2014-11-15 20:32:59 by meesbaker »

dkma841

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #26 on: 2014-11-15 22:58:01 »
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« Last Edit: 2021-10-28 16:34:34 by dkma841 »

meesbaker

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #27 on: 2014-11-16 02:14:54 »
Sure xD

EQ2Alyza

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #28 on: 2014-11-16 03:06:17 »
Can we please close this thread? PLEASE?

Shard

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #29 on: 2014-11-16 09:42:00 »
Yeah it's getting to the point where people are just ignoring facts and ignoring evidence. This isn't going to go anywhere useful.

meesbaker

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #30 on: 2014-11-16 10:35:54 »
Yeah it's getting to the point where people are just ignoring facts and ignoring evidence. This isn't going to go anywhere useful.

True, I was bringing evidence to you and you ignored it. You ignored that the nbc chopper 4 I linked in my first post here shows no plane. You ignored that the cnn video I linked multiple times is full of rendering errors. You think just because you made up an absurd explanation how the wing could get behind the red building you have facts?

I examined the video further and found many more glitches with the wing inside the smoke. The most obvious one is at 0:23. The  right wing is behind the fassade of the tower! You may have to play/stop 0:22-0:23 two or three times to see it and you will eventually see how the white boarder of the wtc is completely in front of the airplane's wing. Have fun ignoring that and closing the thread.

http://youtu.be/LSDfbm8OhCg

Kaldarasha

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #31 on: 2014-11-16 12:49:54 »
Can we please close this thread? PLEASE?

I look how this unfolds, but, except of dispute between meesbaker and Shard, I don't understand your demand for closing it.

Yeah it's getting to the point where people are just ignoring facts and ignoring evidence. This isn't going to go anywhere useful.

That's the problem with media these days, it is hard to prove with it facts and evidences, because we are able to manipulate it.
Honestly I haven't read all the comments and have only clicked at the video link, and my first was that the airplane do look very constructed, but the video looks so bad that I can't tell if it is or not. The impact does look OK for me, we have thanks to Hollywood a fairly wrong imagination of how a crash do look.
But this is a good example of placing some other theories out, to let people look stupid.

This is an officially used video by the media, but no media does talk about what you can see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge_f4OEsV9I
I knew that this film exist from a book from 1994.

I would more like to here other 'theories', instead of debating 'if or if not' without come to a point. Elsewhere we should really close this... :|

Shard

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #32 on: 2014-11-16 13:12:02 »
True, I was bringing evidence to you and you ignored it.
50 videos showing the same plane crashing into the same building in the same way IS NOT evidence that nothing happened. You're taking one video, saying (wrongly) that it's fake, ignoring 50 other videos of the same event, and ignoring 10,000 eyewitnesses who were there. Who's ignoring evidence?

You showed me a video, said wrongly that something special was in it, and cited it as evidence of something unconnected even if it were there. That's like saying "Look at the Mona Lisa. You can clearly see she Jesus behind her. Therefore aliens exist."

You know what? Let's say the video's fake. Let's say it's a 3d plane shopped into the video on top of a missile or whatever you think it actually was (I mean, you think its simultaneously a 3d model and a real military plane at the same time. I'm humoring you at this point). If someone were going to fake a video, why would they make a mistake like that? It takes MORE WORK to hide the wing (which isn't hidden, but I'll go along with your horrible pattern recognition) than to let it sit in the frame. Why would someone take a video, fake it perfectly, then ADD IN a mistake like that? You have to assume so many nonsensical things to believe what you actually believe.

People like you are the reason nothing gets done about anything. You're too busy making up imaginary problems in a fake reality so you can apply nonsolutions to them instead of actually helping people in the real world. The terrorists won that day, and you're not helping.
« Last Edit: 2014-11-16 13:33:56 by Shard »

meesbaker

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #33 on: 2014-11-16 14:59:24 »
@Shard
They made a mistake because they had to rush. Now I'll give you the point that you said that I am basing a lot on a single clip that's true :)

But that's just because you said it wasn't fake. I thought it was a clear fake and then I planned to go on with other videos(you still haven't commented the nbc chopper, why even argue if you can't explain that?) but you really take that shaded low res 3d model for reality so it gets longer than I wanted it to.

Why the mistake happens is actually not important but at 0:23 the wtc  building is in front of the right wing of the plane so it must be a 3D plane. Doesn't happen with a real one.

Now on your question, what if I spoke the truth and the plane was 3D rendered and faked? Well this means that any other video of that impact is likely be faked as well. Imagine there was a real boeing flying into the tower. Then all videos that have the explosion should cover that, right? So if a video has the explosion/smoke etc. perfectly synchronized with all other videos it MUST also show the real plane right?

Unless you say the whole thing is animated but that is really hard to do. At least in a few hours. So it is more likely that the original of a video that shows no plane during the impact instead of a fake one probably didn't have any plane at all. Or something smaller like a missile that is hidden behind it.

The reason I came up with that last idea is just because all videos that look very fake are very well synchronized. And that is very hard to do in a few hours. No one has the time to create some 3D simulation that covers all plane perspectives from any point precisely. So I assumed that there must be some guideline which also minimalizes the effort of drawing the plane.

Again on the nbc live footage. I linked it in my first post, probably you better do the research yourself. It is the nbc chopper 4, searching this will give you numerous results. None of those show a plane, though. How? Why? The only thing that can hardly be recognized is a very small object flying towards the tower. Some say it is faked and didn't appear in the live shot. Others say it is a small missile or so but it is sure no boeing.

So that fits quite nicely does it not?

Covarr

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #34 on: 2014-11-16 16:05:29 »
i reley dont wan to say this, but i have to now.

I'd been hoping to stay out of this thread, but I can't ignore this one.

The most obvious one is at 0:23. The  right wing is behind the fassade of the tower!

In CGI land, Z-sort errors:
1. only happen with 2D assets or post-processing effects
2. happen with the entire 2D asset.
3. Are related to shortcuts made for the sake of running things in real-time, and would never happen in anything pre-rendered.

So why does it look the way it does? Because the wing is the same color as that part of the building, the video simply is not as high resolution as it needs to be, and the scaling algorithm used to blow the footage up has made a mistake. I've seen things like this all the time, and they're pretty much always scaling errors.

Among other things, we know the building really did explode, and all non-plane footage is clearly real. Of all the errors that could have been introduced adding a CGI plane, Z-sort errors are not among them unless they cause the plane to be in front of something it should be behind, not the other way around.

Just to be clear here, I am not intending to debate any other point in this thread except for the plane supposedly being behind something it should be in front of. This is a scaling error, not a z-sort error, and isn't really evidence of anything.

Also, here's the second crash from 43 angles. Do with this as you will.

sl1982

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #35 on: 2014-11-16 16:57:40 »
Can we please close this thread? PLEASE?

The thread stays as long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks. At which time it will be closed and everyone involved will get warnings. I don't want to prevent free speech and everyone is allowed to have their own beliefs.

Cupcake

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #36 on: 2014-11-16 17:51:32 »
Just wanna say, I can guarantee the planes really did exist, and really did hit the twin towers.  I saw it with my own eyes, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just plain wrong and/or crazy.

meesbaker

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #37 on: 2014-11-16 19:40:40 »
Possible that it is a resolution glitch. Still I find the plane to look very constructed and unreal actually ;)

Well, whatever you believe I think it is always good to question your version and research again. I'm currently doing the same. I'm still sure that the cnn vid is fake but that may have multiple reasons.

Anyway I'm outta here. Whatever course this will have I just have more fun getting back to modding than making up weird conspiracy lol :D

The thing is I just can not deny what my eyes tell me and I always found all those planes to look rendered, hence I can't buy the governmental version and go searching for evidence. Have fun guys ^^
« Last Edit: 2014-11-16 23:39:40 by meesbaker »

Shard

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #38 on: 2014-11-17 02:34:22 »
@Shard
They made a mistake because they had to rush.
If you had bothered to actually read my post, you would have picked up on the fact that it takes more time and effort to put that mistake in the video than it takes not to have the mistake in there at all. If they were in a rush or lazy, that "mistake" wouldn't be there. Of course, this is going along with your delusion (or perhaps misperception) that the wing is ever behind either tower. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you actually see it disappear because there's a lot of grey-on-grey, or maybe your monitor's color fidelity is poor. I promise you, I've watched those few seconds about 20 times, and it's very clear the wing is always visible.

It's nearly impossible to fake an image of the world, mostly because you have to match the quality and the lighting of the original (both of which are pretty hard to do). Faking a video is even harder. Faking 50 videos is even harder, especially when 50 different random people own the originals. Which seems more likely to you:
1) The government found, confiscated and doctored 50+ different videos from private citizens and organizations before they uploaded any to youtube, doctored them to put a 3d plane in the video, added mistakes to the video on purpose by accident, gave the videos back to the original owners (because multiple people upload their versions to youtube), and made 100 people on the flight disappear, all within five minutes of the event (because many of those clips were broadcast live), then within the next year they convinced every new yorker on the street to lie about what they saw and 100% of them complied, or...
2) A plane hit the building.

The government has spouted enough retarded BS about the issue, you've got plenty to work from without having to make this garbage up. When you say things like "Hey, I know thousands of people saw it and a plane actually disappeared and the people on it actually disappeared and there are dozens of videos showing the same thing, but this ONE CLIP looks kinda sorta fake so I'm going to ignore everything else" you're only lowering your own credibility. It's the same reason nobody takes creationists seriously.

ProtoX

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #39 on: 2014-11-17 10:07:35 »
i didn't care about what cause the towers to fall and even now i still don't care about what cause them to fall. the only thing i care about to this day is the mental and physical damage this event caused to the people, not buildings or the planes, just the people who there or was learning of this incident and still dealing with the aftermath to this very day.

dkma841

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #40 on: 2014-11-17 10:44:42 »
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« Last Edit: 2021-10-28 16:34:26 by dkma841 »

Kaldarasha

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #41 on: 2014-11-17 11:11:00 »
Oh how people make the twin tower thing such a big deal..in other countries they get worse attacks like day by day..

Ditto. But it's actually mechanic with which they have reached there goal, which is pervert.
A lot more people has died after 9/11 and a lot more will die because of it. These day has given terror a face. A face to fear. And what can you do with fear?

Quote
“You can control the hearts of men
  with a little fear. Why waste good
  money on the mindless masses?”
Any idea, who has said this?

EQ2Alyza

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #42 on: 2014-11-17 16:12:11 »
Oh how people make the twin tower thing such a big deal..in other countries they get worse attacks like day by day..

Please name me any country that has ~3000 deaths due to international terrorism on a day by day basis.....

America has accounted for almost 8% of the world's fatalities due to international terrorism for the past 50 years. We're a target and have every reason to treat it with caution.

Not everyone is affected by these incidents, but all it takes is one family member or friend to be involved and it becomes a big deal to everyone they know.
« Last Edit: 2014-11-17 16:30:43 by EQ2Alyza »

dkma841

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #43 on: 2014-11-18 00:51:31 »
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« Last Edit: 2021-10-28 16:33:58 by dkma841 »

Cupcake

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #44 on: 2014-11-22 18:50:52 »
It's crazy that there are seriously still people who believe that planes hit the towers.

I know I'm late here; and I already said this, but I just need to reiterate.  It's not so crazy, I saw it myself.  Not via video, but by going "holy shit a plane just flew into that building, what the fuck.... holy shit it happened again, the fuck is going on"  Planes hit the tower, I can assure you of this.  If you don't believe me, at least believe Covarr who can vouch for me that I saw it.

ChaosControl

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #45 on: 2014-11-23 00:25:48 »
Please name me any country that has ~3000 deaths due to international terrorism on a day by day basis.....

America has accounted for almost 8% of the world's fatalities due to international terrorism for the past 50 years. We're a target and have every reason to treat it with caution.

Not everyone is affected by these incidents, but all it takes is one family member or friend to be involved and it becomes a big deal to everyone they know.
Maybe that's their own fault? I mean, I live in Europe, we got terrorism, yes. But in my country hardly any. Let alone enough to reach a decent amount of families, and we also have a way smaller population. That's because (I think) our country has a neutral attitude towards certain stuff that's not their business (like supposedly WMD's). If our army is on foreign affairs, it's always a help mission, never a fight mission. Even if UN requires us to "fight" alongside some countries like the USA, we're only cleaning up the mess (putting bandages on the survivors of both camps).

If they really were eager to help then where are the armies in North Korea and a lot of African countries? Oh wait, there's no oil there, only in Syria (ok ok that's Africa, but its a really tiny part).

But all that is not taking into accounts half of the "terrorism" over there is probably staged by the government itself. A thought I share with a decent amount of people (even some Americans) is that the USA is hardly a first world country. It's more like the screamy kid from the waaay too rich parents which allow everything and everyone had to sit by and just nod occasional so they don't take in a fit. No offense on any of you here of course, only the American government in general. I mean, I still like Hollywood movies and cheeseburgers and stuff. :P

Shard

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #46 on: 2014-11-24 01:18:42 »
It's not even the government as a whole, it's the individuals who control it (congressman, senators, presidents, chiefs of staff, etc). The actual people who work in government organizations are just doing their jobs; their only other choice is to be fired or arrested.

LeonhartGR

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #47 on: 2014-11-24 12:07:17 »
Gotham all over!

Goth

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #48 on: 2014-12-03 22:01:59 »
meesbaker's posts are really embarassing to read. But I understand him, I was like him for the R=A theory in FF8. LOL, totally different topic but the mechanism behind is the same: you never thought about it, then someone on the internet tells you about it using the right words and attitude, and you just fall in that trap because of some weird psychological reasons.

BTW, this is a video of 43 different angles of the 2nd hit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpUKM0MFNaM

LeonhartGR

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Re: The truth and other lies...
« Reply #49 on: 2014-12-04 05:41:11 »
Fear is what's left in the end out of it... either used by the government nor terrorists! I don't believe the government is completely innocent as far as this particular attack is concerned though. You can't just enter a country and hit 2 huge commercial buildings in such way. Also in no way you can deal such topics with a sense of humor... I'm feeling deeply mournful about this tragedy!
« Last Edit: 2014-12-04 05:50:33 by LeonhartGR »