BATTLE!!!

[Mako]

Ahh good ol' DLPB.


You repeat yourself sir without any new or real relevant information to the subject. No, it's not better to me. To me broken mini games and blocky backgrounds are just plain not worth it. Might be to you (obviously) but I do not sacrifice so much just to have a slightly sharper character. Here's hoping a second try with PC will be better.

If the designers today had access to the original data and could make higher resolution versions of the graphics, they would not have left FF7 PC with the PSX low res data.  Why would anyone want that?

Dunno why this statement is here, my cat sneezing has more relevant information to the topic at hand then this.

[DLPB_]

I repeat myself because what you are saying is bat shit crazy... it makes no sense at all.  At least it doesn't top "I prefer all the mistakes in VII because I grew up on them."

I wasn't just talking about backgrounds... I was talking about models and the like...  aside from the original backgrounds being blocky, what other LOGICAL reason is there for not wanting a better all round experience with PC?  And as I said before, the nature of CRT isn't "Better" than on PC monitors, it is the same data just more blurred/filtered with a smaller resolution.

Are you really saying that 1 thing is a deal breaker compared to everything else? 

[Mako]

That the game looks better on a CRT? Yeah... that sure is crazy. 

[Vgr]

Mako, your cat sneezing has nothing relevant, while that statement you quoted has rights.

About you, DLPB, I say I like the mistakes because I grew up with them. However, would a full remake come out, I'll gladly take it over the old one unless it changes too much. I have nostalgia, and as such, want something good, but fidel to the original.

Mako, I cannot express myself as I did not test it, but there is one thing I can assure you : The game was meant to play at x resolution. If you try to play at x*2 resolution instead, it will look blurred.

[DLPB_]

Well I agree... if the remake kept the same story but enhanced the graphics, fmv and translation, maybe added more minigames, thats what I'd call a good remake.  But I have said my piece, not like it will make any difference anyway.

[Mako]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAwWPadFsOA


^Bring it!!!!

  But I have said my piece, not like it will make any difference anyway.

Well that sucks... I was hoping for a bit more. Anyhow did you know dan plays FF7 on his CRT. it's a rumor I hear.

[PitBrat]

I still keep a CRT hooked up as a 3rd screen on my computer.
Heck, I like the look of round pixels.

People need to repeat themselves here . . .
It's not like there's a readme or a faq that contains all the information in an easy to read format.

Even if they completely ripped FF7 apart and released it as a FPS they'd probably still make a fortune.
But FF7 is a darling child.  They'll most likely leave it mostly unchanged, mistakes and all.

[Mako]

Ok! Since Dan doesn't bring up any good points, I shall debate my greatest foe yet! Myself...

1: Mako you know the PC version isn't all about looks... you can use your own music, as well as import some great remix's into the game.
2: Darn that's a pretty good point Mako... I guess sound goes to the PC.

1: Mako the damage calculations are fixed regarding the armor!
2: Really!? That's pretty neat. But hey! The mini games are broken so it's a tie.

1: Mako how much time do you really spend on the sub game? or even the snowboard game? aren't you just nitpicking?
2: No I'm not! I don't play them much but I still get cool stuff!

1: Oh yeah? what stuff?
2: Tickets... you know, stuff.

1: You spend all of your time on the chocobo game getting tickets. You don't need them.
2: ... I hate you.

2: Ok smart ass what about my blotchy backgrounds!?
1: Oh shut up Mako, save your lies for dan. We all know you have a computer that cranks a pretty nice smartbloom filter out, making everything look nice.

1: .... I hate you. -_-
2: Likewise.

***
Pretty sure I just competed in the first ever 'self debate' and lost. =/ Where's Dan I need someone I can beat.

[Vgr]

*sits and watches, and cries in pain* (those who can get the reference here get a cookie).

[Prince Lex]

Dude, the PSX games look massively better on a CRT. Arguing that is totally pointless. It's the difference between magnification and resolution.

The data is the same, so increasing the resolution (which is what happens on all modern HDTV's on PC or on PS3) causes pixellation. Since old TV's magnify it and the resolution stays the same, it doesn't look pixellated. Hence the image looks just as good on an old 32" TV as it does if your window size on PC is 320*240. You can literally see the game on a huge screen and there will be no noticeable pixellation. Can't do that with modern-day screens.

There is obviously no increase in detail, but the image is much smoother and sharper because there's no pixellation. It's not blurred, nor is it upscaled, hence is looks far better.

Also, no one is expecting the HD port of FFX to look like FFXIII. NO ONE. They're expecting it to look like the original game. For the same reasons I've just mentioned, FFX looks horrible on the PS3, which is why they're doing the HD version in the first place.

[DLPB_]

It is still stretched (a lot since the orig res is 320*224).  And the quality is not increased it is simply displayed differently.  I hate CRT, it is personal opinion, but saying you won't update to a PC version solely due to that doesn't make a lick of sense.  I don't find CRT appealing at all, I prefer blocks to that horrible blurry image.

Not to mention we now have upscales of the fields which are better than CRT ever could be.

[Prince Lex]

CRT isn't blurry at all, and I already said that. And once more, it's not "stretched" either, it's magnified. Stretching is displaying a low resolution on a higher resolution, which isn't what a CRT monitor or old TV does. It projects the image.

No one said they wouldn't "update" to the PC version. Also, the original PS version and the current PC version with mods from here are two completely different games. No one is arguing that the mods have the capability to improve it. But when it comes down to it, the original, unmodded PC version is visually inferior to the PS version when it's played on an old TV.

It's the same with any game released on PS and PS2, they look better on old TV's. Try outputting them on HD and all you have is a shitty pixellated image.

[dkma841]

Haha the debate between DLPB and Mako was a joy to read

[DLPB_]

I was talking about TV (which she was originally) and that was most definitely blurred and inferior (and interlacing is hardly amazing).  But this is side tracked anyway, the bottom line is she refuses to use the PC version for nothing more than nostalgia.  The upscaled versions of the field backgrounds along with the better rendering of 3d elements and enhanced FMV make PC version far superior to PSX.  You would agree there, surely?

I repeat from before, what LOGICAL reason is there for sticking with PSX?

Anyway lex, bugger off...     How is new Anxious Heart I released?

[LeonhartGR]

...and released it as a FPS...

As "First Person Shooter" Reminds me of something similar... not really sure to laugh or cry to this statement... What about this year's E3... hmm... so truthful in many aspects...

Oh... and... "Still good"

[Mako]

CRT>HDTV (Or monitor)


Dan's just mad cause I got the CRT in the divorce.

Anxious Heart

Off topic! I'm reporting you to ummm someone.


Dan, can you ever be wrong? I thought you said your piece?

Haha the debate between DLPB and Mako was a joy to read [/size]

I bring excitement to Qhimmzees before it was so... plain. LMAO


*dances*

[DLPB_]

CRT>HDTV (Or monitor)

Your quotes keep getting more ridiculous... I hope you are just trolling for your sake haha!

[Mako]

Your quotes keep getting more ridiculous...

Hehe dunno how my quotes keep getting more ridiculous since it's the same message I've been saying all along.


Where you fail to understand is the game looks better on a CRT. Who cares about stretching, resolution, blurring, it's all made up, or just irrelevant. All these are, are words. The picture is better on a CRT. The models themselves are better on PC. However, the PS3 'smooth' filter takes care of that. So the models don't even look as bad. Overall the PSX is bug free, last time I played the PC version (last year) the game was a crashy mess on PC.

[BloodShot]

Though I do understand why you might like to play it on a CRT, I don't see how you could call it a crashy mess on PC, considering it almost never crashes unless you install mods that conflict with each other, in which case it's your fault in the first place that it's crashing.

And I ESPECIALLY don't understand how you say you can't stand the pixelation on the PC version and you use a CRT on the PS3 - since you can do the exact same thing on the PC and have it look identical to the PSX version, and you can even turn on texture smoothing to take away any pixelation - which btw comes from the textures being low res and DESIGNED to be pixelated , and has absolutely nothing to do with the platform it's running on, at all. ( In fact, many games back then including FF7 used unfiltered, pixelated textures to give the illusion of more detail, and smoothing them out takes much of that away) The game was originally designed to be run at 320 X 224. So either A. you need a really tiny CRT or B. you'll have to sit back further, considering PSX games were made for regular TVs of the time - which you would typically sit pretty far away from, and it was clearly pixelated if you ever tried to sit closer.

[Mako]

Though I do understand why you might like to play it on a CRT, I don't see how you could call it a crashy mess on PC

No mods at all... cept' aali's driver.

And I ESPECIALLY don't understand how you say you can't stand the pixelation on the PC version and you use a CRT on the PS3 - since you can do the exact same thing on the PC and have it look identical to the PSX version, and you can even turn on texture smoothing to take away any pixelation - which btw comes from the textures being low res and DESIGNED to be pixelated , and has absolutely nothing to do with the platform it's running on, at all. ( In fact, many games back then including FF7 used unfiltered, pixelated textures to give the illusion of more detail, and smoothing them out takes much of that away)

Yup I fully understand what the 'smooth' filter does on the ps3. However, there is no scanline filter on the PC version, you cannot do the exact same thing, you cannot get it to look less pixelated, you can blur the image on PC. It helps a bit... However, there IS a scanline feature (not really a feature) built right into the PSX itself.


Although I hear if you have a really high end receiver you can convert the signal to look better.


http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

( In fact, many games back then including FF7 used unfiltered, pixelated textures to give the illusion of more detail, and smoothing them out takes much of that away)

True, but that's not the game in question.

[Tekkie.X]

After reading some of this, I loaded up PS1 FFVII on the CRT I keep around for my older consoles, even unmodded, PC version does actually look a bit cleaner, in the end though, it's personal opinion.

Also, FFVII on PS3 looks like ass regardless of using the scaling or not.

[Mako]

Also, FFVII on PS3 looks like ass regardless of using the scaling or not.

Dunno what kind of setup you have but the PS3 is literally a PS1. At least it uses that same hardware. (I could be wrong on this) but the way I understand it was a ps1 was literally built right in, it switches to it when a ps1 game is loaded up.

After reading some of this, I loaded up PS1 FFVII on the CRT I keep around for my older consoles, even unmodded, PC version does actually look a bit cleaner, in the end though, it's personal opinion.

Yeah I kinda figured a majority of people on here feel the same way, this is a FFVII PC modding site after all. Heck, the game could load to a blue screen and you still get people claiming it looks better. It's like me going to a Xenogears site and saying the game looks garbled., I'll get shot down, but does it? yes.


However, popular opinion on the interwebs believes FFVII PC looks like crap. But they are giving it a second shot! YAY thats rare.

[BloodShot]

It goes both ways...If you go to a FF7 PSX forum they would say the opposite. It's just how people work.

Difference is here you have some technologically savvy people who actually can test it and see the difference, while most other people just post an answer and don't care to check it or do anything to confirm it, thinking they are right just because it's the end of their fake little world when they aren't

[Mako]

It goes both ways...If you go to a FF7 PSX forum they would say the opposite. It's just how people work.[/size]Difference is here you have some technologically savvy people who actually can test it and see the difference, while most other people just post an answer and don't care to check it or do anything to confirm it, thinking they are right just because it's the end of their fake little world when they aren't

My thoughts exactly. What's going to be very interesting, in the future, is when you have TWO versions of the same game. FF7 PC vs FF7 PC Re-release. You will get the old modders vs the new (presumably moders) claiming one version is better then another. (regardless if it is or not)


me I have set the bar very low for the SE team for the new FF7PC... Adjustable resolution, fix the bugs, and make the background's decent. I think they are, any PC game found on the market today has adjustable resolution.

[Hellbringer616]

I've not once had an issue with FF7 PC crashing, Not ever. I honestly will blame the computer before the game. And mine is modded out very nicely with all the graphics mods/fixes (magic Defense fix is really the only one to be honest)

I just wanted to point that out. Moving on.

The PS3 is not anywhere near a PS1, different CPU architecture for starters. i could go into specifics but no-one wants that cause my post would be HUGE.

Scanlines aren't a PS1 "Feature" it's a "feature" of old CRT's, well the interlaced ones (you can get progressive scan CRTs) as it's a side effect of interlacing.

Basically everything i could say has been said by either bloodshot or DLPB.

Now, Unmodded, au natural, PC vs PSX? I'd give it to PSX just all around better. BUT, with the mods we have here, PC was kind enough to get some vaseline for the PSX's poor anus, as it sodomized it.

Want scanlines? http://www.razyboard.com/system/morethread-quest-for-scanlinesporting-question-pete_bernert-266904-6093715-0.html
There you go, You'll have to package it in a format for Aali's driver. But thats the code of a scanline filter.

I have solved one issue. Next is the blurriness added by a CRT, add in a blur filter to the above code, and add a nice low setting to it.
http://www.geeks3d.com/20100909/shader-library-gaussian-blur-post-processing-filter-in-glsl/
Here i found on for you.

As for crashing, scan with Malwarebytes (malwarebytes.org) and remove any infection, next update your graphics driver (that will help with any gaming you may do anyway) If need be reinstall FF7 with mods of your choice (if you'd like i can just send it all to you in a prepackaged ZIP, just lemme know the resolution of your monitor)

i have broken down your points made. The final thing is yes, two minigames are broken, And sadly only Aali can fix that, and i know he will. After that you have no complaints about the PC(modded) vs PS1. and the PC(modded) is by far, superior.

This is from someone who still has, and plays occasionally. FF7 on an original fat PS1.