Author Topic: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!  (Read 533 times)

DLPB

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Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« on: 2017-08-14 16:48:34 »
Any GoT fans around?  Well, here are my thoughts - posted on imdb.

Contains spoilers.

Quote
Season 1 to 4 = 10/10.

TVW = TV writers.

Since the TV show left the books behind (around S5 on), the show's writing has gotten worse and worse. I think the first poor episode was probably the one where Arya is being pursued by the T- 1000. It was utterly absurd. But this season (s7) has been by far the worst.

Aside from the odd decent moment, and the awesome spectacle of the dragons, it has been average at best. Melodrama has replaced a proper narrative. Contrivances have replaced logic. Let me give you some examples:

1. Daenerys has spent her entire time planning to invade Westeros. And when it was finally time to do so, the dumb TVW threw a spoke in the wheel. Out of nowhere, she suddenly can't hurt any bystanders, so holds off the attack on King's Landing (Yeah, 'cause she hasn't had to hurt any innocent people in order to get to the position she is in now, has she!?) This silly little contrivance is designed to prolong Cersei on the throne (itself a really dumb idea) as long as possible in the most artificial way possible. The TVW are completely strawberriesting on logic in order to force this demented Mexican standoff. The latest episode goes even further... A proposed alliance between Cersei and Daenerys and Jon - to defeat the Army of the Dead. Jon and co have to prove to Cersei that the army is real by capturing one of the living dead. Just think about how DUMB that sounds. As if Tyrion, or Daenerys, would be entertaining anything of the sort, especially at this moment in time. Tyrion would never even advise it, because he isn't stupid enough to trust his sister for ANY REASON.

2. The long awaited reunion of characters was handled in a really clumsy way. It was dreadful. Where was the real emotion with Sansa- Arya or Bran-Sansa? It was non existent. It was like these people were just ordinary buddies who chanced upon a meeting. I was really looking forward to seeing the reunions, because we have been waiting since SEASON 1 for it. What a complete let down that was.

3. Characters are everywhere at any time, as if they have a teleportation device. Daenerys hears that the Lannisters have taken Highgarden - and the next minute, her army is right there with Jaime in the thick of it. The continuity has gone out of the window. Whatever the writers want to happen happens. Magic wand, LAZY writing.

4. Melodrama / soap opera nonsense. In the last episode (S7E4), I had to suffer watching jaime being saved by Bronn in the most ridiculous way there is. The cliché and brainless 'last second save'. And then, as I fully expected, we open episode 5 to discover they haven't been captured and have miraculously managed to escape unscathed, floating in deep water while WEARING ARMOUR and A SWORD! Holy crap. That's what happens when you run out of actual genius (Martin's work) and have to work on your own crappy, limited brain (TVW).

5. Characters aren't behaving like they should be. I've already mentioned Daenerys in regards to this, but it extends across the board. Bran "OOooo I am suddenly not Bran anymore... but I can feel who he was" or some slop. He still hasn't explained ANYTHING to anyone, even though the world is about to do battle with a mortal threat that he understands better than any other person on the planet. Sansa's turned into some awful caricature, totally alien to who she is as a person. And don't give me the Ramsay bullstrawberries, since that was a dumb TV move in the first place and never happens in the books. Cersei is somehow queen and ultimate ruler, and making logical tactical decisions. But, here's the thing, it's already been established long before now that she is a useless tactician, and a naive, childish brat, who has no leadership qualities. But that's all out now, because they need her to be a main antagonist on the show. Speaking of Cersei, her one remaining child died and her emotion to it was zero. That's after it being well established that her only reason for carrying on with life was her children. Oh, but let's just switch off our brains again. The TVW said it's all OK! Whoopi-doo.

6. Contrivances. For example, Jorah Mormont needs a cure. Suddenly, he's managed to trek to some sort of hostel hundreds and hundreds of miles away, seemingly to just die - where he meets up with Sam - who not only finds a cure in a random book, but manages to pull off the delicate procedure, explained within, at the first time of asking. Then Jorah is back with Daenerys super-quick time. It's just so damn lazy and transparent.

7. Dialogue. This has taken a big hit as well. It's always been the case that the writers think swearing is uber-cool and shoehorned it into as many places as possible - but now they are out of Martin's material, a lot of the meat is gone. Tyrion stands out the most. The TVW are in over their heads. They are out of their depth.

Does anyone think Martin will be remotely THIS incompetent? The TVW have always made a mess when changing things (very often for no sane reason) from the books. For example, army numbers and population numbers being exaggerated to absurd levels; ridiculous and unrealistic events, like Sansa marrying Ramsay; over the top swearing, sex, nudity - for no other reason than to appeal to the mindless, lowest common denominator. But this is worse.

It's still entertaining, but the quality slide after S1-4 is larger than people are admitting. Some cool scenes with dragons isn't making me blind and dumb to all these issues.

also see http://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a10385746/game-of-thrones-season-7-flaws/
« Last Edit: 2017-08-14 16:56:39 by DLPB »

hotdog963al

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #1 on: 2017-08-15 21:20:32 »
They're compressing an awful lot into a limited number of episodes, I quite like it having some pace for once.

If you want proper detail, stop watching it and wait for the books to be finished.

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #2 on: 2017-08-16 04:54:16 »
It's not "proper detail" I want alone.  As I note in that post, it's simply S1-4 quality, which we are no longer getting in any shape or form. In fact, we aren't even getting near to s5-6 quality in places.

gjoerulv

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #3 on: 2017-08-16 11:05:02 »
Even though I don't agree with everything, you're right. The quality has dropped significantly.

From the top of my head these are the root reasons of an inevitable downfall of series such as GoT:
1) Adapting a piece of fiction that is not yet completed.
2) Adjusting said piece to mainstream audience.
3) Increasing polarity => more attention from shareholders/etc. => Even more dumbed down content to please mainstream due to influence from more parties.

Also, I'm kinda pulling this one out my ass; haven't done any research, but I think they have a tighter budget now for GoT. Why else only seven episodes for this season?

I like fast-paced shows, but GoT is currently way too fast-paced for my liking. Ep5 is worst one yet.

All this being said, GoT is still one of the best shows out there imo. Damn shame it couldn't keep the quality up.
« Last Edit: 2017-08-16 11:08:45 by gjoerulv »

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #4 on: 2017-08-16 12:11:12 »
My biggest gripes are: the number of last second saves there suddenly are.  Characters that should be long gone, but survive like a brainless Hollywood movie; the pacing (teleportation device); and the cheap injection of stupid plots out of nowhere... like Sansa suddenly being at war with her sister.  All manufactured very quickly and unbelievably.

And, if you think Ep5 was bad with the rush job cop outs... just wait until Episode 6 (it was leaked). I just watched it and I gotta tell ya... it has the MOTHER of all cop outs.  It makes Jaime's survival seem realistic lmao.  The only word I have for it is Biblical.  It's a cop out of Biblical proportions!

Edit.  Yeah, I'm not sure what the TV writers are smoking to be honest.... they are clearly WAY out of their depth.  As bad as it can get that latest episode.
« Last Edit: 2017-08-17 00:20:03 by DLPB »

Triggzy

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #5 on: 2017-08-19 06:35:10 »
Wait isn't the IMDB boards down? How did you post it on IMDB? Off-off topic question.

I'm not as big of a fan of the recent episodes where the writing seems weak and a bit outlandish, but I understand it needs to lead into an end-game for the story. Curious to see what it really will be.

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #6 on: 2017-08-19 15:17:47 »
Blue eyes white dragon.

gjoerulv

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #7 on: 2017-08-21 10:39:15 »
Episode 6... smh, what the actual fern...

It have to be the worst written episode yet. Teleportation confirmed.

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #8 on: 2017-08-21 16:12:50 »
I did warn you.  HAha.   But even worse was the way Jon got away... I mean..  it's just the very very worst abracadabra bullstrawberries there is.  And a HOMING HORSE to go with it.

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #9 on: 2017-08-21 17:42:17 »
http://www.imdb.com/user/ur38586606/comments-expanded?order=date

Some of these dudes have actually switched vote after episode 6.  It was also 8-1 against me or something at one point.

hotdog963al

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #10 on: 2017-08-21 23:45:31 »
Perhaps you should have a go at re-writing the season, I'm sure it would be a good read.

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #11 on: 2017-08-22 00:33:01 »
I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not (judging by your other post - it is), but in a serious answer - yes, it would certainly be better written if I did it.  It would take an enormous amount of my time for nothing though.  A better solution is to simply get annoyed at being short changed, try to enjoy what we've got (as much as possible), and be happy in the knowledge that Martin is on the case, and I'll soon be able to read what he's made, which is far superior to anything I can - and far far superior to what the lazy ass TV writers can.

But your two responses so far have basically amounted to telling me I have no right to criticize a work of fiction, and if that's the case, I can't help you. If you don't like it that people have the right to criticize poor writing or lackluster storytelling, that's your problem. I won't be stopping any time soon.  Ask the Star Trek fanboys.  :)
« Last Edit: 2017-08-22 03:42:19 by DLPB »

-Ric-

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #12 on: 2017-08-22 09:01:55 »
Well as far as "teleportation" while it does bother me, I kinda understand it. They had a ton of stuff to get done and only 7 episodes to do it... So yeah, I kind of expected that there would be a lot of time-skips in this season before it even came out.

As for how they survived in episode 6... Honestly, I believe that the Night's King simply let them go. The way he took out Viserion... He could have done the exact same thing to any of them. Easier in fact as they were sitting ducks. I sincerely believe that this "battle" wasn't about killing or being killed, it was simply about obtaining means to get through the wall which the Night's King definitely accomplished.

Also I read rumors that the last season might be delayed until 2019... I did not research it deeply but if that's true, please shoot me now.

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #13 on: 2017-08-22 14:40:12 »
That makes absolutely no sense.  They wouldn't just let them go - and Jon would not have made it back after landing in the ice and being alone. In freezing cold weather. On a horse. How did the horse survive? Game of Thrones was always level headed, especially in the books. ANd that just isn't. It's lazy and totally breaks the suspension of disbelief.  And if they left it until the last 2 seasons to get everything in place, that's their fault.  They've had since season 5.  If the next season is the last one... then it's a total rush job.  All this to set up a one season war with the dead?  It's a shame that Martin didn't get Winds of Winter out in time.

Also, even how the dragon was captured was lazy. Typical bullseye shot with a spear. Then the white walkers became smiths... because they forged their own chains from nowhere to pull it out.

One final point... we have no idea of the bad guys' motivations. Nothing. They are invading for some reason and we just don't know what it is. There is nothing at stake except boogeyman of the week is coming to get you.
« Last Edit: 2017-08-22 14:46:25 by DLPB »

EQ2Alyza

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #14 on: 2017-08-22 16:33:00 »
It's taken the White Walker army 6 seasons to get where they are now, and yet the distance traveled by Gendry, a raven, and the dragons did all of it in a fraction of an episode. I still love the show and the in between action, but some of the recent writing has had me scratching my head.

Article calculating an approximate distance that we saw traveled in EP 6: CLICKY CLICKY

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #15 on: 2017-08-24 00:45:43 »

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #16 on: 2017-08-28 02:53:47 »
At least the final episode is very good—like the first episode of this season.  At least it didn't end with the slop we've been served since ep2.  9/10.

Mostly good.  Still a bit of rushing - but nowhere near what it has been of late. Everything is in place for the Great War, which is, of course, what the TV writers wanted for season 8. I'm still not happy with how the TV writers lazily rushed all the pieces in place at the last minute in the most obnoxious way a writer can, but I can look forward to season 8 now and hope the bad pacing and ridiculous contrivances won't be repeated.
« Last Edit: 2017-08-28 21:17:27 by DLPB »

-Ric-

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #17 on: 2017-08-28 11:03:22 »
And now we wait.....................................................  :-(

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #18 on: 2017-08-28 21:18:05 »
C'est la vie.  :'(

olearyf2525

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #19 on: 2017-08-29 10:33:30 »
The two producers/writers have no idea what they're doing. The only reason this show did well was because it followed the books so closely. Now that they have to do the writing themselves and only work based off of outlines/notes from Martin the show has taken a steep dive in quality and pacing of the writing. David Benioff and David Wise probably got their jobs through nepotism like most of hollywood, after looking into their backgrounds. Honestly, when they made Stannis kill his own daughter, I was pretty pissed because as someone who can relate to Stannis' personality type, I and all of my friends who were fans of Stannis know that he wouldn't just overnight decide to kill his daughter especially by burning her alive.

I've only watched 5 out of 7 episodes. This is a first for me. Usually I can't wait to see the next episode right away. Goes to show how the quality has dropped off.

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #20 on: 2017-08-29 15:48:12 »
There are numerous issues with how the TV writers do things and this has been the case since Season 1.  But, yeah, it's turned real poor since the books were left behind - parts of Season 5, and all of S6 and 7.  My gripes with the show as a whole are:

1. Swearing, Nudity, Sex, Gore for no other reason than shock value.  When these things are used in a realistic way and for emphasis or to compliment the story, that's fine.  But too often this isn't the case.  I've lived on 2 council estates with the thuggiest losers for neighbours you can imagine, and even they don't swear like the characters on GOT do. The biggest culprit is Bronn.  I mean, imagine you were with someone who continually spoke like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-6bx8pAmGg

It's just used obnoxiously.  People don't talk like this.  Even the lowest retard you can imagine has restraint with language.  They won't ALWAYS use "fern" instead of "shag" or "sex" or "at it".  There are numerous variations, but Bronn is a one man  factory of "carnation" "twat" "fern"... It's like a bad fan translation... when a giddy teen has the power to make his favourite character swear.  Ooooooo how clever!  And that's exactly what the TV writers do with GOT... not just with swearing, but with sex and violence and nudity.  It isn't clever.  But you can see from the youtube video above how it appeals to mindless dumbasses. To anyone with any brain, it just ruins the character and breaks suspension of disbelief.  I've been known to swear a lot... so when I complain about characters doing it, it HAS to be bad.

2. The TV writers often substitute reason and realism for mindless shock value.  The best example I can think of is when the Mountain crushes Oberyn's head.  This was so fantastically stupid. It was so overdone that it broke the realism entirely.

3. Other issues are the changes they've made for no good reason whatsoever - and which work against the fiction.  Some things that spring to mind:

Brienne is everywhere (Probably because they caved to whining feminazis).  She is kicking ass everywhere.  Taking on Jamie Lannister, like it's nothing.  Beating the Hound.  Killing Stanis.  She is literally everywhere being a badass because "we need strong woman."

Stanis wife keeping her stillborn babies in jars.  WTF?  How absolutely stupid.  I read that this awful addition was added because one of the TV writers liked the idea.  He then asked his wife if it sounded far fetched.  Reality check: If you are asking your wife if a major plot change from the books is absurd, then it's absurd.  Stop changing things thinking you know better than the frickin' author. It makes Stanis' wife come across as totally tapped in the head... and Stanis too.

Population numbers / army numbers exaggerated from the book numbers.  Why?  Because 1 million sounds badass compared to 10,000  or 100,000.  It's like the TV writers just forgot or didn't care that this isn't 21st century Earth!  I can't remember what the total numbers are for the Wildling army... but I'm sure the TV writers went with an absurd number that never materializes on screen when the war is over.  Where are all these Wildlings housed or fed?  All this lack of believability because they wanted the number to be larger for "drama".

Littlefinger:  Littlefinger in the books is a smart person. He comes across as likable when in fact he is utterly ruthless.  In the TV show, he has a sinister look and a sinister voice.  He's OBVIOUSLY bad.  There is no subtlety.  The writers want the audience to know he's BAD by making him into Jafar from Aladdin.  I half expect his eyes to start twirling in their sockets.

The King of Dorne being murdered in the way he was... just to wrap up an arc they couldn't figure out.  Pathetic.

Generally, every single time those TV writers have changed something from Martin's novel, it has led to huge inconsistencies or problems.  Oh, yeah, I forgot... Sansa being sent to the Boltons (what nonsense). No doubt this was done simply so we could see Sansa degraded and raped for yet more shock value.  Yeah, she's 18 now... So let's bend her over.  If I ever get time, I am going to do my own edit of this show and fix the over use of all that shock nonsense. I'd love to recommend it to numerous people, but they'll tune out as soon as they see the brothel in season 1.  They aren't prudes, they just aren't going to tolerate over use of what amounts to porn. If I want porn, I'll go watch it on a porn channel.  That brings up a very important point... TV can never be as shocking as the internet.  If you want to see shocking things, there are real beheadings, hardcore porn, terror attack victims (you'll see this all the time on Twitter) you name it.  It's all there. So adding it in to GOT for "shock" is redundant to begin with and ruins the show.

GOT TV show is still a solid 9/10, but it has some glaring faults - nearly all of which are caused by the TV writers being WAY out of their depth and treating the show like their own personal playground, rather than respecting the author, the books, and intelligent viewers. 





« Last Edit: 2017-08-30 10:42:23 by DLPB »

destroyedweapon

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #21 on: 2017-09-10 15:32:38 »
Ok there may be negative elements but can we not be like most humans and also foccus on the positive things? there are lots. Also season 7 has not ended yet, we are in half season. They have pretty much cleared the path for what comes, sometimes that is necessary.

I also think that the over expectation and the anxiety of waiting 1 week for the next episode and years for a season may leave you with a let down, when in fact wasn't that bad.

Also I love the scene where Jon comes back from the frozen lake. The look that Khaleesi gives really got to me.

DLPB

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Re: Game of Thrones Season 7. Not Happy. SPOILERS!
« Reply #22 on: 2017-09-10 15:59:35 »
I'm not here to blow smoke up the ass of a show that is already critically acclaimed and which I obviously like.  I am pointing out the bad parts, because I expect multimillion dollar TV shows based on a very solid set of novels to have a high standard. A much higher standard than season 7 did - which was terrible. And Season 7 was THAT bad (apart from ep1 and 7, which were decent) - for all the reasons I mentioned. It was lazy. It was cliche. It was full of the worst parts about Hollywood movies. It was everything Martin isn't.

It has nothing to do with waiting or anything else.  It was objectively badly written.
« Last Edit: 2017-09-10 16:01:51 by DLPB »