Author Topic: Remake Inquiry (Read 17894 times)

ficedula · « **Reply #25 on:** 2002-04-04 21:50:00 »

Oh, that was the picture Mirex was talking about; no problem with the post. Just saying that the picture doesn't really change anything...

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #26 on:** 2002-04-04 22:02:00 »

Well, I'm just trying to think of anything I could be helpful with, which is kind of hard since this is a bit new to me.

mirex · « **Reply #27 on:** 2002-04-05 10:35:00 »

I dont know, http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/graphics/location/worldmap/wmap04.jpg looks similar to what i remember; But i remember it was white wireframe on black background; I thought that picture that Saint posted was created by him, i remembered only picture, i dont remember what he said about it.
Sorry

The SaiNt · « **Reply #28 on:** 2002-04-05 17:12:00 »

Quote

On 2002-04-05 06:35, mirex wrote:
I dont know, http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/graphics/location/worldmap/wmap04.jpg looks similar to what i remember; But i remember it was white wireframe on black background; I thought that picture that Saint posted was created by him, i remembered only picture, i dont remember what he said about it.
Sorry

That picture you are refering was posted by halkun

Sephiroth 3D · « **Reply #29 on:** 2002-04-05 21:14:00 »

Skillter: I WAS moving it to c++, but it's been a tad-bit too difficult to learn it. I already know a ton of VB, I was just going to c++ for the better 3D support.

Fice: Correct. 3D is the next step. The background wil be the same (if I can help it.) The reason for the 3D is for making the 3D-planes, and positioning the camera & objects. It'll also help with the Kefka Script Editor I plan to add into Alpha 4. Why for the script editor you say? Just a little thought I had... You'll see when I get it up.

mirex: Really? Hmmm... I just named it after the bad-guy of FF6... Who knew?

re: World Map: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the world map simply a height map of some kind? If so, we don't need a mesh... we take the height map and apply it to a mesh of proper size, and we have it.

Oh, the wmap04.jpg is the same as the b&w one, if you desaturate the colors from the bottom image. I have that image, if you want me to post it...

Sephiroth 3D

"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within

Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]

ficedula · « **Reply #30 on:** 2002-04-05 22:34:00 »

World map: Well, it's not exactly a height map. More specifically, while you *could* generate the terrain from a height map,
a) The height map would need to be fairly detailed. Anyone got a detailed heightmap handy? and
b) Still doesn't tell us what textures to apply!

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #31 on:** 2002-04-05 23:30:00 »

Quote

b) Still doesn't tell us what textures to apply!

Uh, I've been browsing all the various LGPs with the various different tools and whatnot. I could probably figure out which World-Map textures went where fairly easily (same with other textures, really), but I'm probably interpeting the post wrong again. x.x

On a similar note, I've been browsing the Audio.Dat file with FF7Sound (Some friends of mine are working on a CS Mod for the ShinRa Building, and I'm basically providing them with the raw data and interpetations. The shot he sent me of 60f was jivetastic.), And I figured I might as well jot down what the sounds were to make finding them again easier...Not sure if it would be of much use, but Here's a HTML'd version of it:

http://members.aol.com/acaiitoarms/ff7snd.html
And yes, I did use the FF7sound.txt file from Fidecula's site, and I hope that he doesn't mind, and is satisfied with the crediting I put on. If not, let me know and I'll revise/trash it ASAP.

Sephiroth 3D · « **Reply #32 on:** 2002-04-06 00:21:00 »

SI: Fice wants to know the specific code that tells FF7.exe what textures to use for this section of the map. It's probably some sort of tag or attribute, which is what he wants to find out.

Sephiroth 3D

"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within

Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #33 on:** 2002-04-06 00:40:00 »

Ahhh... I get the impression that you can't find that code for *any* of of the Models/Meshes... Dumb suggestion, but that seems to me that they'd probably be similar routines or tags or whatnot (since the same function is performed), wouldn't figuring out the least complex of the models that has texturing (Which would be Field Sprites, I think. Or the World Map's models? I'd think a lot of them would be a simpler than anything else, such as the Weapon Seller's house)

phaeron · « **Reply #34 on:** 2002-04-06 02:29:00 »

Although there's no way to tell for sure until someone pops open the files enough to render them, I think it's unlikely that FF7 is using a plain height map since the meshes you get from them have a lot of polygons, and the tesselation to triangles is nontrivial. The easiest way to tell would be to watch FF7 PSX -- the Playstation can't do subpixel coordinates or texture filtering, so you can figure out where polygons are by the jittering.

As for the RPGamer picture, it's a hexagonal grid instead of the usual rectangular, and you can see obvious grid artifacts in the mountains in the lower left of the rendered shot. Those definitely don't show up in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if the game model is a polygon-reduced version of the picture's model, though.

ficedula · « **Reply #35 on:** 2002-04-06 16:52:00 »

SI: Seph3d has the idea. Even it is a heightmap - where's the heightmap stored??! Except we don't think it is.
Plus, d'you want to try positioning textures for however many tens of thousands of polygons make up the world map...
And no - the world map isn't stored in the same format as the other 3d models - nothing like it. Dammit.

The SaiNt · « **Reply #36 on:** 2002-04-06 17:13:00 »

It's not a heightmap.
I can confirm that.
[edited] 1 2002-04-06 18:13

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #37 on:** 2002-04-06 17:53:00 »

I think I might have been misunderstood...

Quote

SI: Fice wants to know the specific code that tells FF7.exe what textures to use for this section of the map. It's probably some sort of tag or attribute, which is what he wants to find out.

What I was saying, is shouldn't the tag or attribute used to apply the textures be the same, or at least similar, regardless of what exactly they're being applied to? Be it one of the simple models applied to the world map (Towns, Junon's Cannon, etc), a field sprite, battle sprite, or the base World Map mesh? I'll try a HTML'ing analogy....

Whether you're applying an alignment to an Image, an embedded media file, a Paragraph, header, or just about anything in HTML, the basic coding for it is to put ALIGN="{left/center/right}" in the tag, whatever it may be. Maybe that'll make more sense...

And, uh, if I'm starting to be a nuisance or anything, feel free to tell me to STFU or whatnot.

ficedula · « **Reply #38 on:** 2002-04-07 10:45:00 »

You'd think the file formats would be similar, wouldn't you? They're not. The world map is stored in a *complete* different format to any other 3d data in the game that we know of.

Sephiroth 3D · « **Reply #39 on:** 2002-04-08 23:58:00 »

Quote

On 2002-04-06 13:53, ShinRa Inc wrote:
What I was saying, is shouldn't the tag or attribute used to apply the textures be the same, or at least similar, regardless of what exactly they're being applied to? I'll try a HTML'ing analogy....

Whether you're applying an alignment to an Image, an embedded media file, a Paragraph, header, or just about anything in HTML, the basic coding for it is to put ALIGN="{left/center/right}" in the tag, whatever it may be.

I'm not sure how "in the loop" you are, but from everything I've heard from Fice, Alhexx, Qhimm, Saint, and just about anyone else who's trying to decode FF7 formats, the FF7PC team was NOT the smartest people in the world. They did a lot of stupid stuff with the code, as many of us could testify to...

More than likely, they have those functions, however, my guess is that they have 3-26 functions for the same operation of applying textures to models. That's how screwed up FF7PC is...

Sephiroth 3D

"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within

Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #40 on:** 2002-04-09 00:05:00 »

Quote

I'm not sure how "in the loop" you are

Not at all, really. I've been trying to browse the older forum threads to get a grasp on what's been discussed already, but I'm better at Hands-on learning than book-learning, if that makes any sense.

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #41 on:** 2002-04-09 07:52:00 »

...And I *think* I've browsed just about everything tech-related to FF7PC on the forums. It al pretty much makes sense to me....in a vauge, extremely abstract way...

One thing that made one of my logic alarms sound was a post I found in the "Tech Issues" Thread, or more easily found at:
http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?topic=407&forum=4

Quote

Quote of what I said earlier

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One more thing, they also defined these file extentions(i think) for flevel.lgp
.mim (map backgrounds)
.map (This is some PSX format I believe)
.ate (script files)
.bsx
.sta(status files)
.inf
.enc (encounter rate???)
.fcr (i believe the f in the following
.fda files stand for field something)
.fpl
.fcc
.mcc

Might .fda be in some way related to the Battle Model's da files?
Long shot, and probably something already looked into, but I didn't find any posts along those lines, so I figured I'd say something on the thousandth of a percent it's usefull.

Also, I sat down and browsed through a whole bunch of the Audio.dat file with FF7Sound, and I've gotten a *lot* more jotted down than Ficedula's original document, If anyone's interested.

In fact, it's probably better to make a new Topic for it...
::Drifts::

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #42 on:** 2002-04-11 05:56:00 »

From Skillster's Page:

Quote

Cosmo version 0.93 IS OUT!!! VERY large download, about 900K, which is quite large in comparison to the rest, its a BIG bug fixer though, I'm looking for artistic talent myself to help in recreating artwork for FF7, like backgrounds and battle scenes. If u want to help out, email me a sample (the original FF7 background - as extracted by Cosmo but at twice the size- and your retouched version, or new version) ONLY at [email protected] , ok?

Hmn... Would putting a Non-blown up Mako Reactor in Gongaga be something along these lines? ::Bored, fiddles anyway::

mirex · « **Reply #43 on:** 2002-04-11 11:42:00 »

Quote

On 2002-04-09 03:52, ShinRa Inc wrote:
Might .fda be in some way related to the Battle Model's da files?
Long shot, and probably something already looked into, but I didn't find any posts along those lines, so I figured I'd say something on the thousandth of a percent it's usefull.

I dont think so... imho ??da files are animations for battle models ... and i dont think that there is much to animate on the world map. I mean not much skelets to animate.

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #44 on:** 2002-04-11 19:01:00 »

From what I've read, I agree that ??da files seem to be like .a files for the field sprites, but I thought .fda was part of the Field files, not World map, and the Field has quite a bit of animation that I don't think has been entirely figured out yet. I don't know if this is just a bug I've encountered, or a general problem, but None of the tools seem to display any of th backgrounds that had animation in them (ie, the Highwind's cockpit and Deck with the ground rushing under it). Like I keep saying, I'm just throwing out oddball ideas in the unlikely event I might stumble across something usefull.

Speaking of, I haven't said anything about it before, because I don't want to come off as a complaining ingrate, or whatnot, but about half of the programs that I've downloaded from the various sites don't work (Namely Gast, Ultima, Jenova, Jenova-Birth).. And yes, I've downloaded the various libraries, DLLs etc...several times, and tried just about everything I could think of to remedy the problem myself.
Also, there are a bunch of sprites in Char.LGP that Ifalna won't show, but I'm not sure if that's a general limitation, or a problem on my end. If the former, apologies if it sounds like I'm complaining; I seriously don't want to seem that way. If these problems aren't something wrong on my end, then maybe there's some way I could be useful, at least by providing infromation on what's going wrong, or whatnot.

ficedula · « **Reply #45 on:** 2002-04-11 21:14:00 »

None of the field backgrounds tools currently available do animation or transparency. However, I *do* know how to do that - figured it out for the Remake engine - but since I only finished adding that code into Remake last week (and it's still not 100% complete) it hasn't been added into anything else yet

BTW, which models does Ifalna not display properly for you? Tell me, then we can say whether it's a problem on your PC or not

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #46 on:** 2002-04-12 00:24:00 »

Without going through the entire list, offhand I remember:
Hojo's hair is screwy (Same with the battle sprite, too...same/similar problem?)
These throw errors at me whenever I try and view them
Wagon (Which I think is the Chocobo Cart)
Heri2 (B2 'chopper, the one with the stage welded on the side, I'm assuming, since Heri is the normal 'chopper)
Erm... That's all I can think of, offhand. I'll jot down a list next time.

La~~~~ Been working on it here and there today, while doing all the other pointless things I usually do.
As extracted by LGPtools (Size doubled):
http://members.aol.com/racingthenight/gongaga1.jpg
As of 0240 EDT:
http://members.aol.com/racingthenight/gongaga2.jpg

Not finished, just figured I'd put up what I had before I start considering sleep.

Alright... I got sidetracked from finishing the Gongaga graphic due to another project someone asked me to do....Which may also be useful.

http://members.aol.com/acaiitoarms/gren.jpg

Based off of a character a friend of mine Roleplays (Gren Darkwolf).
It's a Direct Screenshot, not edited aside from cropping.
[edited] 135 2002-04-14 04:02

Sephiroth 3D · « **Reply #47 on:** 2002-04-14 03:00:00 »

Oh god, it there's one thing I can stand, it's someone posting 3 times in a row...

Cleanup! Page two!

Sephiroth 3D

"I don't understand..." "You don't have to understand." - Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within

Sephiroth 3D.com
[email protected]

ShinRa Inc · « **Reply #48 on:** 2002-04-18 07:08:00 »

ShinRa Fleet Yards Type B1 iota "Warhawk" Gunship
http://members.aol.com/acaiitoarms/b1iota.jpg

Can't do anything too innovative until I can mess with the Polys and Colors directly...And aside from Character weapons (which are either too small to really use...or a sword) those are the only real weapon polys in the Char files I could find... Which is the Proud Clod's spinal-mounted Mako Cannon, and the Airbuster's waistguns mounted on the same joint.

...And, uh...It's been almost three weeks since I asked about the Remake, should I interpet that as a "No"?

ficedula · « **Reply #49 on:** 2002-04-18 10:45:00 »

Erm ... good question.

*I'd* posted my response, but it's possible SaiNt's waiting for someone else to respond - you should always get told one way or the other. I'll check and see who hasn't responded...