What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?

[Nightmare799]

Why does FF15 look like a Third-person shooter? I mean did they forget that this franchise was originally an RPG?

[Covarr]

I dunno, if anything it looks like a God of War clone. The combat, at least from what I've seen in trailers, is predominantly melee-based. I think they were aiming for an action RPG, a faster yet more strategic/less buttonmashey variant on what Kingdom Hearts did.

I can forgive the experimentation as long as they keep some key RPG elements intact. A thorough weapons/armor equip system, spells, items, and a lot of visible numbers.

[DLPB_]

Why does FF15 look like a Third-person shooter? I mean did they forget that this franchise was originally an RPG?

No, they just realized that they can get away with easier design aimed at the masses. 
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=12677.0

[Nightmare799]

No, they just realized that they can get away with easier design aimed at the masses. 
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=12677.0

Hmm I see.

The one thing I have to disagree with is the FFX-2 bashing.

I saw it as being laid back and fun, and I gotta say I enjoyed it pretty much (mainly the combat, Eject with Alchemist ftw).

The one bit that I didnt like about it was the Brother, and overall stupidity of the gullwings crew,  there was no guarantee they wont go full retard very few minutes and I cringed times.

Still I liked it. It has blitzball (albeit not the same as in x), customization (I cant remember seing this many classes in rpg for a long time) great combat system, story is solid, (except for few points)

It also has good lenght, lots of sidequests and relatively decent ammount of freedom, and a few story points are really "holy shit" phrase worthy, like den of woe.

[StickySock]

This game receives WAY too much hate from people assuming it is related to FF13 and therefore suffers from the same mistakes. Everything I've seen from this game seems to be envisioned in an exact opposite manner from 13. We can all agree (most of us anyway) that 13 was at least a little disappointing. You don't, however, have to like 13 in order to be interested in 15.

Quick note: the design argument does not hold because FF15 is said to have a world map, open and expansive environments, airships, and automobiles so obviously this game doesn't have the same linear tropes that plagued 13. Will it be as open as say FF1-9? Who knows, but it's ridiculous to count it out since most of what we seen shows large areas and ridable vehicles.

As for the combat...

FF15 is obviously going for a KH style combat system and it's not a horrible idea in of itself. Battles, as weird as it may sound, don't need to be turned based to be strategic. It's a horrible misconception that the only games that can be strategic need to have a combat system that resembles a board game.

What's my point?
I love turned based games. I have enjoyed every final fantasy 1-13 (with 4,6,7,9, and 10 being obviously much better than the rest), but to dismiss something for innovating is ridiculous. There is nearly as much strategy in action based games as there is in turn based games, and when combat is in realtime it gives pressure (another layer of strategy) and excitement. That's why the active time battle system was introduced in the first place. If the game turns out to be a mindless button masher, than okay, critique it for involving no strategy and being a poor representation of action-rpgs. But I think that saying every FF needs to be turn based is ignorant and not very helpful. Dark Souls and Demon Souls are third person action-rpgs that require a lot of strategy and patience, and your decisions are under pressure. So don't bash FF15 for trying something different, bash them for not doing it well if that ends up being the case.

Edit: The reason it looks like third person shooter is because you must have watched a trailer showing the ability to switch between characters in battle (something missing from ff13 and highly requested in KH games when Cloud or another fan favorite joins your party). It would be like being able to swap between controlling Vincent or Barret (people with guns) and Cloud or Tifa (people who use melee attacks) in real time.

[Covarr]

FF15 is obviously going for a KH style combat system and it's not a horrible idea in of itself. Battles, as weird as it may sound, don't need to be turned based to be strategic. It's a horrible misconception that the only games that can be strategic need to have a combat system that resembles a board game.

The thing is, if it's that different, it really shouldn't be called Final Fantasy. It can be the best damn action RPG in the world, but the Final Fantasy name implies that it's turn-based. That's what happens when you create a tradition by keeping the same core mechanics intact for ten games in a row. If you're gonna break from that, don't give it a number. XI through XV have all annoyed me in this respect.

[StickySock]

The thing is, if it's that different, it really shouldn't be called Final Fantasy. It can be the best damn action RPG in the world, but the Final Fantasy name implies that it's turn-based. That's what happens when you create a tradition by keeping the same core mechanics intact for ten games in a row. If you're gonna break from that, don't give it a number. XI through XV have all annoyed me in this respect.

That ship sailed a long time ago, as you've noted. But this game was indeed intended initially not to be a numbered entry, and I thought the smart move was to name it FF Versus, to remove the connection from 13 (which it only has in names of the mythos) and give it the distinction from the main series. They decided to make it a numbered entry though, for whatever reasons they saw fit (probably for more money and less time to develop a new game). However, none of this is actually determines that the game is crap, only that Square Enix seems to have no guidelines to distinguish which games should be considered flagship titles.

[Mcindus]

The thing is, if it's that different, it really shouldn't be called Final Fantasy. It can be the best damn action RPG in the world, but the Final Fantasy name implies that it's turn-based. That's what happens when you create a tradition by keeping the same core mechanics intact for ten games in a row. If you're gonna break from that, don't give it a number. XI through XV have all annoyed me in this respect.

I agree with Covarr.  I think there should be a new way to implement a 'turn-based' system for the FF series, and SquareEnix just hasn't delivered that to us.  I really do believe that Squaresoft would have.  This game should have been a "Seiken Densetsu" game - especially since "Dawn of Mana" was such a horrible travesty (plot-wise, translation-wise, graphics-wise, and gameplay-wise).  I would have loved for the Mana series to have this kind of modern gameplay reboot... but for a Final Fantasy it falls flat.

What I find funny is that the actual SNES "Mana" series action system almost felt turn-based without being turn based.  I think even going to that system would feel more "Final Fantasy" over what they've done.
That's my 2 cents.

[Nightmare799]

I agree with Covarr.  I think there should be a new way to implement a 'turn-based' system for the FF series, and SquareEnix just hasn't delivered that to us.  I really do believe that Squaresoft would have.  This game should have been a "Seiken Densetsu" game - especially since "Dawn of Mana" was such a horrible travesty (plot-wise, translation-wise, graphics-wise, and gameplay-wise).  I would have loved for the Mana series to have this kind of modern gameplay reboot... but for a Final Fantasy it falls flat.

What I find funny is that the actual SNES "Mana" series action system almost felt turn-based without being turn based.  I think even going to that system would feel more "Final Fantasy" over what they've done.
That's my 2 cents.

Tbh The way I see it, they just want to attract the TPS crowd, because they lost half of their playerbase by their stupid decisions. They truly have no fucking dignity.

[DLPB_]

Tbh The way I see it, they just want to attract the TPS crowd, because they lost half of their playerbase by their stupid decisions. They truly have no fucking dignity.

Course not.. now they are a pure out and out business.  Whereas before they at least had some passion and care.

[Nightmare799]

This game receives WAY too much hate from people assuming it is related to FF13 and therefore suffers from the same mistakes. Everything I've seen from this game seems to be envisioned in an exact opposite manner from 13. We can all agree (most of us anyway) that 13 was at least a little disappointing. You don't, however, have to like 13 in order to be interested in 15.

Quick note: the design argument does not hold because FF15 is said to have a world map, open and expansive environments, airships, and automobiles so obviously this game doesn't have the same linear tropes that plagued 13. Will it be as open as say FF1-9? Who knows, but it's ridiculous to count it out since most of what we seen shows large areas and ridable vehicles.

As for the combat...

FF15 is obviously going for a KH style combat system and it's not a horrible idea in of itself. Battles, as weird as it may sound, don't need to be turned based to be strategic. It's a horrible misconception that the only games that can be strategic need to have a combat system that resembles a board game.

What's my point?
I love turned based games. I have enjoyed every final fantasy 1-13 (with 4,6,7,9, and 10 being obviously much better than the rest), but to dismiss something for innovating is ridiculous. There is nearly as much strategy in action based games as there is in turn based games, and when combat is in realtime it gives pressure (another layer of strategy) and excitement. That's why the active time battle system was introduced in the first place. If the game turns out to be a mindless button masher, than okay, critique it for involving no strategy and being a poor representation of action-rpgs. But I think that saying every FF needs to be turn based is ignorant and not very helpful. Dark Souls and Demon Souls are third person action-rpgs that require a lot of strategy and patience, and your decisions are under pressure. So don't bash FF15 for trying something different, bash them for not doing it well if that ends up being the case.

Edit: The reason it looks like third person shooter is because you must have watched a trailer showing the ability to switch between characters in battle (something missing from ff13 and highly requested in KH games when Cloud or another fan favorite joins your party). It would be like being able to swap between controlling Vincent or Barret (people with guns) and Cloud or Tifa (people who use melee attacks) in real time.

Imo turn based combat is the staple of final fantasy series (excluding spin offs ofc).

When you take it away, you practically got dmc with final fantasy slapped on the cd case. If they want to make an action rpg/TPS, that is fine with me, but for christ sake at least dont call it final fantasy (or at least let it be a spin off instead).

Honestly, if you shown me the trailer on FF15 without me knowing it is final fantasy game, I would ask what have they done with Dante´s hair again, and whats with the universe and setting.

[StickySock]

This game was originally named FFVersus13, to be a "spinoff" title of the main series, and was directed by the director of the KH franchise (and by the same teams who worked on them) hence the different combat system. All they did was take the name, and switch it to FF15. There is no conspiracy; there is no "trying to gain the attention of the TPS and action game crowd".

Honestly, you guys are just feeding off the negativity that Square Enix has gained in its fan base with the release of FF13 and making up ideas of how Square Enix must be so evil. They took a spinoff title, made it a flagship entry, and that's it. Maybe they should have left the spinoff title to appease you guys, but it is the same game (that looks more promising every time I see it).

The fan reaction when it was FFVS13: "Wow, that game looks unique and kind of interesting! I'm excited to see more!"

The fan reaction after it became FF15: "Heresy! Burn Square Enix to the ground for changing its name!"

[DLPB_]

No, I don't agree with that at all.  We are basing negativity on what we can see.  The fact is FF15 is not an RPG by the standards set out for an RPG (nor was ff13).  If the board game Monopoly suddenly changed into Dungeons and Dragons, I am guessing people would take issue at it.  The standard and care at Senix these days is appalling and has been for a while.  Changing names is a symptom of piss poor management.

[Nightmare799]

There is no "trying to gain the attention of the TPS and action game crowd".

I just hope that you are right and that I didnt just witness how my favourite series of turn based RPGs turned into action-adventure/hack and slash crap.

Honestly, you guys are just feeding off the negativity that Square Enix has gained in its fan base with the release of FF13 and making up ideas of how Square Enix must be so evil. They took a spinoff title, made it a flagship entry, and that's it. Maybe they should have left the spinoff title to appease you guys, but it is the same game (that looks more promising every time I see it).

They made it crystal clear they dont give a flying f*ck about their playerbase, in more ways than one.

The fan reaction when it was FFVS13: "Wow, that game looks unique and kind of interesting! I'm excited to see more!"

The fan reaction after it became FF15: "Heresy! Burn Square Enix to the ground for changing its name!"

Because they made the game one of main releases. The moment it was called Final Fantasy 15 it stopped being considered spin off.

It is practically the same as it was with Resident evil 4. Not saying it was a bad game (it was awesome) but the moment they made it TPS it stopped being Resident evil.

[StickySock]

@Nightmare799: You're right, it's exactly like the switch from RE3 to RE4, but RE4 wasn't bad now was it? Hopefully square enix won't abandon the old turn based style in the same way Capcom abandoned the horror genre.

@DLPB: The RE4 analogy fits much closer to what is happening here, but for the most part I agree with you. They have done nothing but piss fans off and clearly have poor management skills.

My point is that this game shouldn't be totally bashed for the ignorance of the executives. I too hope they don't abandon turn based RPGs for the future, but they haven't made one since ffx, and this game looks by and far the best thing to come out of square enix since ffx.

[Tekkie.X]

@Nightmare799: You're right, it's exactly like the switch from RE3 to RE4, but RE4 wasn't bad now was it? Hopefully square enix won't abandon the old turn based style in the same way Capcom abandoned the horror genre.

Square did put out Bravely Default(already in JP in 2012 and EU last year, coming Feb 7th for the US) which is basically a Job/Class and kinda turn based based Final Fantasy game with a different name.

As for Capcom, they're in a bit of bother financially just now, having just spent around $40 Million to make some games for the mobile market(you know, since their previous efforts there did well... mobile version of RE4 was nasty) out of something like $130M of usable money, they're even bundleing up the first 3 Dead Rising titles(1,2 and Off the Record) into a collection for the 360 to make a quick buck.

Capcom would do well to work on a few HD remasters if they want to put at least a little bit of effort in, but the main ones being asked for by pretty much everyone ever either wouldn't make it past the Wii-U or get the go ahead from SNK Playmore, the games in question being RE Remake/Rebirth, RE Zero and Capcom vs SNK 2 which did hit the PSN store recently but that's a derped emulated version from the PS2 and doesn't really count, may have been done to gauge interest in a potential "HD" release though.

[Rundas]

Make more Marvel versus Capcom's so I can hear more of Yipes' tourney announcing.

[Kaldarasha]

If I see it right, Bravely Default was made by the same team, which made Final Fantasy Four Heroes of Light (they made also the remakes of III and IV, if I'm correct with that). The team is good because they follow a reasonable line in style and gamplay. I hope SE let them make more games.

However, everyone has said to Sqaurenix "Please no, don't go this way!" and they have said "Shut up! We know what you want."
And now SquareEnix asking themselves "What the hell is wrong with our customers?"
The main problem from which they suffer now is, that they have abused the name Final Fantasy 'YZ' to sell their games (or experiments). Nobody would had had a problem back then, if they had announced FF XI as FF Online (and FF XIV as FF Online II). But no, they wanted to sell it also to people, who aren't actually interested in online gaming, because these people have started to create a FF collection. The next stupid step was to make a successor to a FF game: FF X-2 (or Final Freakshow X-2). Except of the nice battle system everything was nothing more as a bad joke. Then FF XII had finally split the fanbase, while I think the battle system is the f*cking best in it's genre, many people didn't like the westernization of the gameplay. DQ8 (the best PS2 RPG) has give me some hope, that SE has one good franchise in the JRPG genre at last, but with DQ9 they have teach me a better lesson - multiplayer instead of a story with some charming and lovely characters. Why didn't they implement the multiplayer in FFXIII? The battle system would be great for it. I honestly like the different versions of the battle system, but my problem is that the way of the storytelling has decreased with every FF after IX.
Square Enix is arrogant, they always were. But now, on a time where they aren't the only big company, which makes big RPGs, these arrogance breaking them their neck and they struggle and don't know what to do. Instead of hearing to thier fans, they go their way with half opened ears and looking for the next big moneymaker. I don't know how often I have bought the same product from them, because they have made a small change (I currently have two versions of Deus EX Human Revolution in my Steam library, off course I had to pay again for the bug fixed version).
They still making great games, but the time were the name Square stands for 'High Quality Gaming' is gone. How can I love a game, if the Devs didn't make it with love?

[DLPB_]

There is the other thing...

The merger means there is less competition.  The 2 major companies formed to create Square Enix.  Anytime there is less competition, and especially when one company has a monopoly, there is an issue. Add in the gullible fanbase, and the fact FF is a brand, and it is little wonder they aren't trying too hard.

[Tekkie.X]

Make more Marvel versus Capcom's so I can hear more of Yipes' tourney announcing.

Maybe, maybe if you start blowing the Disney execs for the rest of eternity, Capcom ain't got the rights no mo'.

[Cazador]

I'm pretty pumped for 15. Let's be honest..it's not like 13 had any strategy in its battle system anyway. Hit Auto Battle....Win Game... Plus it looks like it might not be linear as hell like 13 was..I'll give it a shot, it'll be the last one I give a chance to if it sucks though.

[StickySock]

I'm pretty pumped for 15. Let's be honest..it's not like 13 had any strategy in its battle system anyway. Hit Auto Battle....Win Game... Plus it looks like it might not be linear as hell like 13 was..I'll give it a shot, it'll be the last one I give a chance to if it sucks though.

TWEWY alone (just played it recently) is enough to make me excited for this game.

[LeonhartGR]

Top 10 Worst Final Fantasy Games

[Rundas]

Dammit, Disney. What about the Mango Sentinel?

[KaidenJames]

There is a demo for Bravely Default right now on the 3DS. I've played it, and very much liked what i've experienced thus far. I think i'll pick it up when it comes out.