Author Topic: n00b query: My FF1 cartridge keeps losing its save. (Read 8363 times)

macksting · « **on:** 2003-12-24 07:34:16 »

n00b here, not too tech savvy.
It's not as if the battery's dead; I know, ostensibly, what is causing the problem. But please bear with me.
The first time, I jostled the top-loader NES I've been playing on for years, and apparently it killed the power to the memory, because I lost my four white wizards just as we were about to take on the water shrine.
The second time, I was just starting in the air shrine, same party, trying to save up enough cash to finish out their spell lists early; I'd saved in a nearby town, and I put the cartridge in to make more headway. The cartridge didn't go in *quite* right, much to my dismay, and as I feared, although I immediately hit reset when the static, screwed-up misread text blobs hit the screen, I was much too late; the memory had been killed again.
I never had to be this delicate with Zelda, but I haven't played it in a long time, and frankly, these batteries are way past warrantee, as are all NES cartridge batteries. However, I just thought I'd ask: is this level of delicacy normal? I never had this problem terribly often before, and I'm wondering if my odds of maintaining data integrity would improve if I were to replace the battery.
Or should I just be really bloody careful from now on?

And yes, I know I can just get Origins for the playstation, and that would also give me FF2... but damnit, I love that little NES in my room, and its 80-some games.

Aaron · « **Reply #1 on:** 2003-12-24 12:11:10 »

In my experience with the NES, you gotta be careful with it for it to work right. I don't think there's really anything you can do to fix yours, besides just be very careful. You could consider playing the game on an emulator, as then the saving would work flawlessly all the time

macksting · « **Reply #2 on:** 2003-12-24 12:24:24 »

Yes, but without the physical representation of the cartridge, I feel a certain lack of personal belonging, of beloved property. I can't find the beloved glamour, the chimera, in the computer data that I do in my cartridges.

Threesixty · « **Reply #3 on:** 2003-12-24 16:30:46 »

Guess, there is always FFOrigins...I imagine that you "do" have a PS2?

a PS1?

Aaron · « **Reply #4 on:** 2003-12-24 18:40:24 »

FFOrigins does have some nice graphics and music ^^

Cyberman · « **Reply #5 on:** 2003-12-24 20:37:51 »

Yes that's a good alternative..

The problem with the carts for the NES and SNES is the cartridge system they used coroded a lot and turned green over time.. this created a lot of problems you could say.

You could take apart the NES and take a clean pencil eraser to it and the cartridge connections as well and try again.

Cyb

Smurgen · « **Reply #6 on:** 2003-12-25 00:50:49 »

Nintendo does still offer repairs to the NES and the games. Maybe you can do that

macksting · « **Reply #7 on:** 2003-12-25 05:11:39 »

They do not repair Square games. They were very deliberate on that. I checked.

And no, I don't have a PS2. If you've got a problem with that, donate.

Smurgen · « **Reply #8 on:** 2003-12-25 09:58:04 »

Final Fantasy 1 is published by Nintendo. They should repair it.

macksting · « **Reply #9 on:** 2003-12-25 12:13:24 »

I agree. They should. They don't. I looked at the site, and they service basically anything but Square stuff.

Sucks, eh?

Goku7 · « **Reply #10 on:** 2003-12-26 00:04:17 »

What type of battery do NES carts use for this anyway? Watch Batteries?

If possible, you might be able to track down a replacement battery for it. Then, armed with a single screwdriver (and a lot of luck), you can open the cart and figure out how to replace the battery with a new one....

Speaking of experiences with NES cart batteries, I'm fairly surprised that the batteries in my NES Zelda1 cart, and the Zelda2 cart (non-gold editions of both), are still working perfectly.....I haven't had them fail on me once....and by all means they should be dead by now, unless each time you boot the game the batteries are recharged....

macksting · « **Reply #11 on:** 2003-12-26 12:52:48 »

They're a standard piece of electronics backup battery, although it's an older standard, as that goes. At the least, there isn't a part of the cartridge, s'far as I know, that can't be purchased in an electronics shop, except, of course, for the shape of the board.

Cyberman · « **Reply #12 on:** 2003-12-26 17:48:59 »

The are likely lithium magnesium battlery they have a low capacity and can back up a 8K ram for 12 or more months. These batteries rarely go bad.
The other possibility is they are ni cad. These batteries go bad when they are discharged to much or when some cheap idiot overcharages them with too much trickle current. I get more irritated with 'cheap' designs and nicads than you can imagine. Essentially the battery can last several thousand charge cycles and still be as good as the day it was new. However some people 'save' a few cents by making a crappy charger that eventually destroys the battery. The battery is often far more expensive. It reminds me of the $10 transistor blowing to save the 0.01 cent fuse that was the wrong kind and size for the circuit.

The last possibility is a standard lithium coin cell. CR2032 is the cheapest and most common. Even though walmart sells them 'discount' for $2.99 (jerks) they are really only $0.45 each in reality if you buy them from an industrial supplier. Common as dirt and can last 10 years easily they take very cheap circuitry to use as a battery back up. the CR2032 is 500ma most SRAM's draw about 200na to 15ua of power. that means technically a 500mah lithium cell can back up a 8K ram drawing 15ua for roughly 4 years. More typically it's 5 to 10 years.

Cyb

Goku7 · « **Reply #13 on:** 2003-12-27 00:51:35 »

Quote from: Cyberman

The last possibility is a standard lithium coin cell. CR2032 is the cheapest and most common. Even though walmart sells them 'discount' for $2.99 (jerks) they are really only $0.45 each in reality if you buy them from an industrial supplier. Common as dirt and can last 10 years easily they take very cheap circuitry to use as a battery back up. the CR2032 is 500ma most SRAM's draw about 200na to 15ua of power. that means technically a 500mah lithium cell can back up a 8K ram drawing 15ua for roughly 4 years. More typically it's 5 to 10 years.

Cyb

It's most likely this one. On the original boxes that both games (Zelda1, Zelda2) came in (I still have the boxes in decent condition!), they said that the "battery-backup" would allow you to save your game "for up to 5 years".....so go figure.

If the FF1 box says the same thing, then its probably that type of battery as well.

J* H***** · « **Reply #14 on:** 2003-12-27 03:14:10 »

Message

macksting · « **Reply #15 on:** 2003-12-28 00:51:31 »

Still, I'm not gonna open up either cartridge until I have to. Probably drops the resale value, and I do intend to sell one of them. Eventually.

Caddberry · « **Reply #16 on:** 2003-12-31 18:24:55 »

Probably this is a dumb question.. but why not just emulate?

Oh and while were on the subject of opening NES carts.. a friend of mine used to rent a video game then swap the guts.. He would rent something cool like River City Ransom (badass game) and swap it with mario 1.. I never tried, but i believe it to be possible..

Smurgen · « **Reply #17 on:** 2004-01-01 05:56:24 »

Well a friend of mine has a SMB1 case with a Contra cart inside so i guess it is possible ^_^

macksting · « **Reply #18 on:** 2004-01-07 11:27:57 »

That is the sort of thing I'm talking about, yes, except that all we'd be swapping is the EPROM. This apparently requires just the right kind of guts within the cartridge, as those guts form the backbone on which the data runs.
S'far as I know.

Why not emulate? Because I own an NES, and I'm playing Ultima on it right now. *grins* Sounds like reason enough to me. In other words, I still use the lovely thing, and I still love it... I'm already emulating, and it's just not the same as hardware.

Question B:
So where does one get Flash carts for the NES?

Cyberman · « **Reply #19 on:** 2004-01-07 16:21:44 »

Quote from: macksting

That is the sort of thing I'm talking about, yes, except that all we'd be swapping is the EPROM. This apparently requires just the right kind of guts within the cartridge, as those guts form the backbone on which the data runs.
S'far as I know.

If memory serves the NES like the SNES and the N64 had a chip in them that enabled the machine to run the game. The EPROM was not enough to get the game working one had to have the right 'access' chip. This is where I end my description of it. Have fun finding the info

[quote="macksting"
Why not emulate? Because I own an NES, and I'm playing Ultima on it right now. *grins* Sounds like reason enough to me. In other words, I still use the lovely thing, and I still love it... I'm already emulating, and it's just not the same as hardware.

Question B:
So where does one get Flash carts for the NES?[/quote]

You make them my guess, even then I'm not sure it will run even. Flash is tricky stuff. First you have to be able to program them, second it's behavior has to match the system you are stuffing them into. NES is very slow so that shouldn't be a big deal. However...

You might be better off using something completely different, it's called a ROM-U-LATOR. What is it? It's an EPROM emulator made in static RAM. You dump the ROM image to the cartridge and then run the program. You still might need to get around the protection chips (see above). A ROM emulator is not a trivial persuit. I have one I use for developing embeded systems (big wooping 512Kx8 of 35NS memory). If they are using standard 27CXXXX EPROMS in the NES then you remove the ROM from a cartridge you dispise and put a socket in it, get a ROM Emulator plug it in and use should be doing just fine. Multiple ROM cartridges would make this really a pain.

Cyb

macksting · « **Reply #20 on:** 2004-01-08 18:41:18 »

Actually, I think the NES has the largest prevalence of unlawful, bootleg, or unsanctioned cartridge games to date. It certainly was known for being a favorite for pirates and offbrands at the time. Do you suppose this means it might not have had a protection chip? Or just really easy ones to get around?

Cyberman · « **Reply #21 on:** 2004-01-11 23:16:17 »

Quote from: macksting

Actually, I think the NES has the largest prevalence of unlawful, bootleg, or unsanctioned cartridge games to date. It certainly was known for being a favorite for pirates and offbrands at the time. Do you suppose this means it might not have had a protection chip? Or just really easy ones to get around?

Hmmm Ok.. might work then, ROM-U-LATORs are available at HAM fests all over however http://www.tech-tools.com/er3.htm. Yes they are expensive I agree

tech tools I use a lot, they have good support and there stuff works well.

Cyb

ltrob · « **Reply #22 on:** 2004-01-12 05:47:57 »

Quote from: macksting

Do you suppose this means it might not have had a protection chip? Or just really easy ones to get around?

Probably didn't have any... I mean... As far as computer emulators were concerned, they were pretty much non-existent, and likely wouldn't have been able to push those cutting edge games

And they probably figured the average person didn't have the necessary facilities to make cartridges in their homes.

macksting · « **Reply #23 on:** 2004-01-12 07:58:21 »

Yeah... Between the plastic casing and the board architecture, it sounds like still the most practical means is to cannibalize less important games and remove their EPROM's.

Author Topic: n00b query: My FF1 cartridge keeps losing its save. (Read 8363 times)

J*** H*******

ltrob

J* H*****