Author Topic: FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?  (Read 20871 times)

ficedula

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #25 on: 2001-02-06 15:19:00 »
Seriously - how many people would want a WinMM layer to play mp3's? I've got a simple version working on my PC (plays an MP3 version of the overworld theme), but it'd be a bit more work to do it for every midi, especially given the shitty way I identify which midi is playing...

The Skillster

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #26 on: 2001-02-06 18:35:00 »
I dont know really :O , I would perfer to have BETTER midi quality then have buggy MP3 quality (not to say that it will be, but you still have to have the mp3s tho dont you?).
But seeing how now ones bothered to make better midis, there seems to be much better mp3 remixes/remakes of ff7 music, so i guess the volume of better media is really the deciding factor. Unless someone (maybe?) makes a new collection of FF7 music, or someone finds some great FF7 music on the internet (theres gotta be some somwhere?).
Until then i dont care if its MP3 or MIDI, i just want better music with more instruments and more like a live orchestra....

dagsverre

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #27 on: 2001-02-06 20:40:00 »
You do know the concept of MIDI right? MIDI is the scores, MP3 is air waves transformed in to numbers and compressed...even comparing them like the way you do is madness really...

If you want MIDI, there will have to be a composer behind them. A real, human composer, who can plot down the scores. Also you'll need a decent soundfont, which takes some work if you want it for free and in the quality you're talking about. But if you can't get a composer to write down the scores and the 'directing of the orcestra' (adding volume and pressure finesses etc.) then the best you can do is what we have done in FFSF.

The question about MP3 quality is moot however, if you own the soundtracks just compress them at 300 kbps VBR and if you still care about quality loss I'll suggest something else for you than playing video games...like getting back to listening to that $5 000 sound system you must have to be able to pick that difference up...


Sir Canealot

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #28 on: 2001-02-06 21:12:00 »
Oh god there is a difrence. I have mp3s in 128kbs 196 and 256. The 128s still sound nice(about 10 times better than that midi) but the few I have in 256 sound lovely more or less what you get on a cd. Now I dont have a $5000 sound system but I t probley wieghs in at several hundred pounds. I know a FTP with the FFVII MP3s on it but it currently only has FFIX mp3s onit(Its under reconstruction)


The Skillster

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #29 on: 2001-02-06 21:25:00 »
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGVGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :x  :oops:
! MAN, DONT TELL ME THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MP3 AND MIDI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAA! Theres a big difference between wave quality and midi composition, I just want better midi thats all, if i can find some then thats great, it saves u guys goin to the truoble to remapping the midi calls to mp3s etc (what about making it to WMA?).
Dont think I dont know whats what in the deep end of multimedia....
 :x  :oops:


Srethron Askvelhtnod

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #30 on: 2001-02-07 06:59:00 »
Ficedula: I'm all for it.

ficedula

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #31 on: 2001-02-07 16:34:00 »
Right ... don't expect it anytime very soon, coursework has loomed its ugly head once more. Unless Dag wants to volunteer for the task?

Srethron Askvelhtnod

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #32 on: 2001-02-07 21:40:00 »
Alright. Good luck then. I'm starting to see an increase in my own coursework, so I might be forced to come less frequently as well.

Aaron

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #33 on: 2001-02-08 19:41:00 »
Why use MP3 though?  WMA is 1/3 the size.  A 64 kbps WMA  has the same quality as a 192 kbps MP3  - I converted all mine and I'll have to say myself that it is true.

Sir Canealot

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #34 on: 2001-02-08 20:25:00 »
Corse work?  Corse worked has been rearing its ugly head in my life for over a year. And every time its appears I kick it back down. I have about 3 peices of english corse work to hand in 2 peices of media studies. 5 peices for science and 2 for RE. Im soding the lots except for english and media studies.


ficedula

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #35 on: 2001-02-08 22:07:00 »
That depends entirely on the encoder. The encoder that came with my MP3 Player encodes 96KBps Mp3's that are better quality than the 64KBps WMA's that the MS WMA encoder produces. In fact, at 64KBps VBR MP3 it still sounds just as good as the MS WMA's... the fact is that most freeware MP3 encoders aren't that good...

Reznor007

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #36 on: 2001-02-09 02:21:00 »
I can't stand MP3's under 256KBps stereo. They loose several high and low level sounds. This is very apparent when you burn them to an audio CD. I prefer 320KBps stereo though.  :)

halkun

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #37 on: 2001-02-09 16:33:00 »
as much as I would enjoy MP3s for music, loops would be difficult. And wma as just stupid. I don't trust a music format to has licence restrictions.

-Halkhun


Aaron

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #38 on: 2001-02-09 19:03:00 »
Well, I read on Microsoft's site, that with most encoders, a 192 kbps MP3 is CD-quality audio.  Most on Napster are 128-192 kbps.  With Microsoft Media Encoder 8 you can encode 192 kbps MP3s to 64 kbps WMA without losing quality (and 128 -> 44).

Anyway, loops would be difficult if you're using an external player, but if you're using one you make you could have it when it gets to the end, jump back a cerian number of bytes and start playing some more.  This is similar to what the MIDIs do.  But to do this, you wouldn't be able to use MP3s ripped from the CD, you'd have to do some editing.  And everyone would have to use the same set of MP3s or make up there own loop thing, or the loops might be a couple of seconds off.


ficedula

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #39 on: 2001-02-09 20:06:00 »
Frankly, those stats are bull. MS have obviously selected very carefully which MP3 encoders they're comparing against.

Most freeware encoders (at least that I've tried) ARE bad unless you crank the bitrate >128KBps. So what? Get a good one, and 128KBps is (to me) CD quality. 64KBps WMA is not. I've got a lot of WMA's I encoded myself at 64KBps, and believe me, they aren't as good as my MP3's.


Aaron

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #40 on: 2001-02-10 00:45:00 »
Well, I've been using WMEUTIL 8 to encode em to 64 kpbs and I cannot tell the difference, even with headphones.  I showed them to my cousin, he couldn't tell the difference either, even playing the MP3 first and then the WMA and vice versa.

So... if there's a quality difference, it isn't enough for most people to be able to tell.


The Skillster

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #41 on: 2001-02-10 02:51:00 »
fice: the util is exactly what the doc' ordered  :D
Uh, but i cant quite remember what i was planning to do with it :O. (duh!)
oh well itll hit me eventually, but thanks anyway  :D

Sir Canealot

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #42 on: 2001-02-11 15:47:00 »
One thing that should be added is when you gointo a battle on a scene(world map mako reactor ect) Now usely after the battle the song will just start again. How ever I just found out that on the PSX version after the battle its will go to the point before the battle. EG 1:23 minuutes into the song. Get what I mean?


ficedula

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #43 on: 2001-02-11 16:31:00 »
So you mean when a tune starts, it should start where it last finished, not necessarily at the beginning?

That's possible, but not as easy to do as MP3 playback.


dagsverre

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #44 on: 2001-02-11 17:03:00 »
Well...it's easy if we find our own MP3 decoder. Like, using WinAMPs in_mp3.dll directly instead of going through the exe. Same goes for looping.

Anyway, the reason I'm replying is that this souns like so much better than the way the PC version does it...I got seriously bored of listening to that half minute intro which really aren't all that melodical over and over and over again without ever getting to the real parts of the song...


ficedula

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #45 on: 2001-02-11 21:43:00 »
Oh, I see what you mean. I was thinking about that instead of MP3 playback ... not as well as.

Yes, it would be easy for MP3's. Not so easy for MIDI's though, since FF7 streams the MIDI's itself.


dagsverre

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #46 on: 2001-02-11 22:50:00 »
Well it loads the MIDI data from disk, but I would think the MIDI parsing is done by MCI. So it's easy to change...call GetPosition in an overrided StopMidi, restore it in a PlayMidi (I haven't worked with MCI yet so I made up the names).

BTW I remembered this great site again some time ago and thought some of you people would have great use of it: http://www.wotsit.org" TARGET=_blank>www.wotsit.org

Remember to seek out the MIDI specs there...


ficedula

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #47 on: 2001-02-12 16:09:00 »
That's not what I found ... it calls functions in WinMM like midioutStreamOpen, midioutSendMessage (trying to remember names here) and dumps raw midi messages into WinMM. Did you find that its using MCI to decode them to this point?

dagsverre

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #48 on: 2001-02-12 20:47:00 »
No, you're probably right. I just assumed stuff because doing things the way you describe would be...insane! Looks like we can expect anything from those Squaresoft programmers in terms of idiocy.

Sir Canealot

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FF7 - Part 1: Is it even possible?
« Reply #49 on: 2001-02-12 22:42:00 »
What ever your doing hurry it up!
Lets see you only have to
Get MP3s to work.
Rerender the prerendered bacgrounds(I would prefer em rerendered at 800/600 so I can play it on TV-out)
Rerender the FMV
Rerender all the textures
Get rid of all the bugs
Increase res over 640/480 every where
Add more parts to the story

hmm any thing else?

On prerendered backgrounds how would they be rendered?
Would they be drawn?
I have a freind who a pretty dam good drawer
he might be able to help with pre rendered back grounds. Hes no miricle worker though.