Yes, it's now my turn to ask for advice on a major system up

[Reznor007]

On 2001-12-10 22:40, Jari Huttunen wrote:
So, there we are, waiting for new $150+ CPU to be delivered because $10 fan failed. _If_ we are getting replacement CPU at all.

Sure it is better choice in every way... *cough*

Or just a simple trip to the computer store you bought it at

But if you have a good fan, it probably won't fail for a few years. And a fan on a P3/4 has just the same chance of failing and taking the system with it. A P4 will usually survive. P3 can, but will die alot of times.

[ficedula]

Remember, an Athlon might actually survive a dud fan. The big heat failure tests that Toms Hardware did (who I'm inclined to trust on hardware matters) did show the Athlon's going up in smoke in about 2 seconds, but that was when you removed the *heat sink*. They didn't test a fan failure but speculated the Athlon's thermal diode might have been able to deal with that.

I'm just waiting for motherboards with Athlon thermal protection on them anyway. Won't have to wait too long, then my Athlon wouldn't go up in smoke...

[The SaiNt]

On 2001-12-13 08:15, ficedula wrote:
The big heat failure tests that Toms Hardware did (who I'm inclined to trust on hardware matters) did show the Athlon's going up in smoke in about 2 seconds, but that was when you removed the *heat sink*.

I remember watching the video clip for that one.
Amazing how they can throw money down the drain like that.
I wish I could do that.

[Threesixty]

Well I have a secondary config.....probably be better for my Dad, It's not like he's going to use it to play games, right?

Epox EP-8K7A+
MSI TNT2 M64
AMD 1.2 266fsb
Crucial 256 DDR 2100 unbuffered
Teac 1.44 Floppy
IBM 40gig 7200 ultra 100 (two)
Microsoft 114key 10 hotkeys
Micorsoft Intelli-mouse optical
Plextor 16x10x40 (I'll probalby keep it...and give him my Creative4x2x24)
Vantec CCK-603D

Total = 700.83 (includes shipping)

[ficedula]

If he's not going to be using it for gaming, you do realise you could halve most of those specs, right?

[vvalentine]

I was just looking at the Koolance water cooling system.  Oh man, it looks tempting to buy, but right now I don't have any reason for.  I'm thinking of making my own computer with an AMD Duron, and if I'm going to overclock it then I'm definatelly will buy a water cooling system.  Kinda make it look like a car, heh .

-vvalentine

[Goku7]

Water Cooling System?  That sounds like an oxymoron, considering that normally electrical components short-circuit when it comes into contact with water.

[ficedula]

No; it's a great way for overclockers to keep the temperature down. Mostly because water conducts heat *very* well so it's an efficient way of moving heat away from the CPU.

Essentially you have a pump which pumps water through a pipe system in the PC. The water first goes into a block sitting on top of the CPU, then gets piped into a radiator with a fan on the top (like a hollow heatsink). The advantage is that most of the heat dissipation happens through this heatsink, which isn't on top of the CPU any longer. Water cooling is essentially the best CPU cooling system a home user can get; you can take an Athlon down to not much above room temperature.

Not as cheap as a fan, but you get an awful lot for it.
Dreamcast is water cooled too, IIRC.

[Goku7]

Wow.  So, I assume there's no condensation that could form on the outside to where it could interfere with the comp hardware?

Also, I don't know if I've asked this before, but what does "IIRC" mean?

[ficedula]

The water system is totally sealed, as you'd hope! so no liquid can escape and fry your hardware

Condensation...? Hardly going to form in any PC, water cooling or not.

IIRC, IIRC stands for "If I Recall/Remember Correctly"

[J*** H*******]

Message.

[Threesixty]

If he's not going to be using it for gaming, you do realise you could halve most of those specs, right?

Umm yeah.....but it's like a guy thing, you know?

Besides:

Duron 800's are going for 35 dollars, but the 266fsb 1.2's are going for 83 dollars. What's 50 bucks these days?

I don't want to skimp on the Heatsink.

I could lose the CDRW for a CD-rom...save about 50 dollars)

I want to use a motherboard, that I know that will work with no problems and Raid is a nice feature to have built in. I could save about 130 dollars going non-Raid. Have to buy an extra Harddrive, and the Raid motherboard is about 20 dollars more. (Can't skimp on the "Motherboard". My conscience just won't let me. I just can't bring myself into putting an unkown, generic, Motherboard in the shopping cart...probably be a 40 dollar savings....and maybe a 10 dollar savings on Sdram...Durons are 200FSB....but I already discussed the price difference on that and a 266FSB 1.2).

I can't figure anyway to save on memory; it's already dirt cheap. I could get a cheaper case; it's about a 50 dollar savings, if I do (currently planning on getting an Antec1030 or 40).

I'm already picking a low end video card for 30 bucks.

I think an 1.2 Athlon DDR system running Raid for less than 1,100 dollars is real good price (still need a case, monitor, and little stuff, like, maybe some speakers and a powerstrip...reason the 400 dollar increase).

He could buy a prebuilt one, complete with printer, monitor and a other extras, cheaper than I could ever build. Of course quality and upgradeablilty are in question if he goes that way. No reason in me making a bottom end computer, if he can just pick up a complete Dell system for 800 dollars.

I could give him this old P200mmx......for nothing......... (but.....I'll miss seeing it

He won't have any braggin', rights. That's very important among co-workers, you know.

Guess it comes out to be about 300 dollars cheaper for basic system. (Guess I'll just run a price check and show it too him....lets see just how much he want to impress the guys at work.)

---------------------

OH...and water doesn't conduct electricity.....it's the foreign elements inside the water that do. Distilled water won't conduct electricity. Not that it matters in the real world.
[edited] 65 2001-12-15 02:29

[Goku7]

On 2001-12-14 21:27, Threesixty wrote:
OH...and water doesn't conduct electricity.....it's the foreign elements inside the water that do. Distilled water won't conduct electricity. Not that it matters in the real world.

Yes, yes, I know its not the water itself.  (That's what you get when you've been reading high-school Physics books since 7th grade!  ).

Anyway, not many people would have thought of using distilled water.  While in theory it would work without the danger of short-circuiting the system, impurities like dirt could be on the place where you pour in the water, thereby contaminating the distilled water, bringing you back to square 1 (no, not that Square! )

[Threesixty]

Gee you learned that in 7th grade?.....I didn't know that until I took Chemistry in College. She even did a demonstration  

-----------
I hate when I misspell stuff....that's why you see just about all my posts with:

[edited] 65 2001-12-15 07:04

[Goku7]

No, I didn't learn it in 7th grade, at least not during school hours.  I'm talking about the books I read at home.

Now, before you all think I'm some sort of "Steve Urkel" class nerd, I do read other stuff, like the novels "This Present Darkness" and "Piercing the Darkness" by Frank Peretti.
[edited] 239 2001-12-15 23:09

[Darkness]

i take that class next year.

goku> dont peirce the darkness.........

[Goku7]

LOL.

Don't worry.  It's talking about a different darkness.  Frank Peretti is a Christian author, and those two books are about a fictional spiritual battle between God's angels, and Satan's demons.  It's really cool.
[edited] 239 2001-12-15 23:45

[vvalentine]

Goku7:  Condensation will probably not occur because the water temperature is usually above room temperature.  If you install it well, and you don't mess with it so much, it should be safe.

-vvalentine

[M0T]

I just watched that video of the the processors overheating, and it looks.... interesting. But I still wonder why they did it with no heat sink, isn't failing fans more common? I have had 2 failed fans but never a heatsink falling off.

[J*** H*******]

Message.

[M0T]

I did the same thing with a matrox G220, Glued on the heatsink only to watch as the glue caught fire then falling into a pci slot therefore rendering it useless. To this day I still can't be bothered to get the charred remains of that glue out of the pci slot.

[Darkness]

hehe my glue got all soft and the heatsink (or whatever it was) slid off.

[Goku7]

Ok.  My dad had me talk with this store rep that he knows, and now the current new machine specs we've settled on are:

CPU: Pentium4, 1.4Ghz

Mobo:I forget the exact model number onhand, but they are offering a Jetway board.

Memory:Still the same, and that is 256megs of DDR RAM.

Total Price of components:$410

These specs are still hypothetical, but this is what they're willing to give me, since my dad has worked with this particular store for a few years. (READ: he's a valued customer)

[PurpleSmurf]

wish my dad was a valued anything some where, besides goodwill(if it wasnt a major corpate company nw he prorably would be,not kiddin) like for instance he got me a "new" bike there, it cost $7. it was an old itialan pos roadbike. blew a flat on it the second or thirs day i had it. and he has botten atleast $1000 worth of records there. i hate goodwill for being coroporate

[Darkness]

just a little random irrelevance one post up......

you can get a 1.9 athlon, gigabyte mobo, and 512 meg of ram for about 50 dollars more.

btw: pentiums and ddr dont mix