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Off-topic forums => Completely Unrelated => Topic started by: DLPB_ on 2015-04-15 00:57:40
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I kinda rushed this out. The plan was to do a full review for IMDB but I got bored almost from the word go. Just the thought of this film sucked all the passion out of me. Instead, I did a brief overview and left out any spoilers.
I am being generous giving this abomination a 2. It's getting 2 because the characters were portrayed more or less like in the game (which was, for the most part, a well written fiction), and the graphics were nice.
Everything else about this film is wrong. Like with reviewing all terrible things, it's hard to know where to begin.
1. Localization is BAD
Let's start with my title: "Dilly Dally, Shilly Shally". This is a symptom of a terrible localization. You'd think that after the original game's problematic localization that at least THIS would be up to scratch... but no. I won't waste your time telling you what the Japanese was meant to convey - just Google it and find out. The nonsensical phrase above indicates the localization team was either on drugs or mentally deficient. The whole localization is poor. It's actually a slight improvement to watch this film in Japanese with English subs, but that won't fix the crap script, plot, pacing, or anything else, sadly.
2. The plot is a joke
The plot makes absolutely no sense. Part of the reason is that Final Fantasy VII is a massive game with a huge story and, any sequel, even if well scripted, would likely need to be three hours long to tell a coherent tale. No effort was attempted. I watched the "Complete" version of this film and timed the amount of scenes dedicated to meaningless, out of control, and totally implausible battle sequences; from memory, it came to around 1/3 of the film. When you see things like this, you should instantly be aware that the writers are compensating for a lack-luster story. In this case, they are also appealing to FF7 fanboys, who will buy anything Final Fantasy as long as it has cool graphics. Square Enix has churned out a lot of Sequel-Prequel cash-ins since 1997. And fans just keep biting.
3. The pacing is dire
The film is so busy trying to disguise its short-comings with battle sequences that it forgets to tell a story or have a proper narrative. No sooner are your characters in a setting where some meaningful dialogue can take place than something happens to thrust you into another coma inducing battle sequence.
4. The film is written like it is a game
Sigh... the genres are completely different, but some morons at Square Enix (including some of the original staff) thought that it would be a good idea to use game elements in a film. As a result, physics, gravity, logic, and reason are thrown out of the window. Characters are smashed into walls at 100 mph without a scratch... Look, I'm getting fed up with this review already. Just like the film, it's boring me. Needless to say, if you are intelligent enough to understand why believability matters to a fiction, you are too intelligent to watch this insulting film. In the game, battle elements are often treated as non-story elements because that's desirable; a player uses logic to decide how to interpret the battle in the wider scheme of things. The story in the game maintained the suspension of disbelief and didn't go too far, too often. This pile of rubbish doesn't care. Unfortunately, I have had the misfortune of debating this issue on a fan forum, and the overwhelming majority agreed that logic doesn't matter and that any and all things that happen in a story are acceptable. Little wonder, then, that these same people praise and defend this garbage.
5. The characters
Apart from Cloud (who is now an emo), the characters were well designed and acted like their game counterparts. Unfortunately, that's where the similarities end. The game versions had proper motivations and lengthy conversations. This film just wants to get you to the next battle sequence. It doesn't help that the fanboy servicing required numerous retcons (like dead characters returning - itself a sign of lazy, crap writing) to take place, and for almost every main character from the game to make an appearance, no matter the justification.
I am one of the biggest FF7 fans. I have recently finished a complete relocalization for the original game, but, unlike some fans, I am not deluded by fanboyism. I know the short comings of the game and of this movie (if you can call it that). This film was made for the sole purpose of exploiting mindless fanboys - to make a quick buck. And on that front, it worked. If you aren't familiar with the game, I dread to think how much worse this film will be for you.
This film is an ABSOLUTE example of what NOT TO DO.
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This movie went through some rough development. As I understand it, the intent was originally to adapt the game into a movie straight up, but they couldn't condense the story into two hours, so it was changed into a sequel fairly late into development. Really, the whole movie reeks of last minute changes. So many elements in this movie feel reused, both story and battle, which would totally work in an adaptation but feels cheap and lazy in a sequel. Kinda like how Back to the Future Part II wasted time by repeating all the most famous stuff from the first movie, even though what made it special the first time was how original it was.
The only thing I will disagree with you on is the over-the-top-ness of the battle sequences. Yeah, they dragged on WAY too long, which made them super boring, but they're not remotely intended to be realistic; I find it difficult to fault them for being choreographed like anime, considering that was the whole purpose. If the fighting was cut to like 15 minutes total (or 10 minutes in the original, non-Complete version), I think it would've been a lot more tolerable. Might've also been better if they saved the more ridiculous stuff for the Sephiroth fight instead of using it for every single fight, because it really diminishes the impact when they all do that. And really, Tifa battling like it's DBZ? That combat style doesn't mesh with her more slow, deliberate style in the games, nor with her more grounded personality in both.
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Don't forget that this movie was suppose to be like 15 minutes initially.
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The dilly dally shilly shally line overtook me in cringe convulsions. I prefer the Japanese audio because:
a) the voice tones actually match the characters and
b) since the plot is so bad, the Japanese-alienspeak provides me with an emotional context and I can just make up the dialogue in my head to create a better story.
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There really was no story to begin with. I was suppose to be a short with Cloud delivering something and maybe some context of running and orphanage but that was it until they decided to extend the length of the feature. Plus this movie was probably made to cater to a more variety of people since this also got a theatrical release. The biggest mistake I find people making is they fail to take into account what other types of people get dragged to movies. You expect only gamers to see these things? Not by a long shot they also have to account for other peoples tastes. This is why I believe Devil May Cry will never get an official movie release. Do you honestly expect many people to sit through two plus hours of hack and slash and shooting things and maybe even people? Of course you wouldn't half of the people would leave if not more. Some that play the game would go I can do this and stream and get money for. I could go on but I think you get my point maybe hopefully.
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I refuse to watch this animation in English. I got an early copy from eBay that was independently subbed and almost every line made me think "How would anyone translate that for an American audience?" Most of the lines in Japanese don't make sense. Especially Tifa's. She says some of the dumbest stuff. All the generic "I believe in my friends, but my man isn't my man yet" kind of lines.
If they wanted a story out of it they should have made a series. Namco gets this and have made some of their Tales series into animes (I LOVED Abyss's anime). But then again, those games were better written to begin with. I bet SE realized how poor FF7's script was once they started adapting it to an animation.
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I actually enjoyed watching this animation :P (well, what does that make of me, now?)
Although, to be fair, maybe I enjoyed it because I didn't really treat it as a movie, and what I mostly liked was the awesome visuals of a world and the characters "we all know and love". Graphics can deliver tasty bits of story here and there, and this animation had quite a few of these (all the details put in the decoration of the new 7th Heaven, for instance).
Regarding the fighting scenes: while I agree they're too long, I don't mind the fact that they're "over the top" because they're in line with "superhero movie fighting scenes", in my opinion. If I had to go for realism here, there would hardly be any room for the Buster Sword to begin with.
However, I can understand how DLPB gave it a 2. I appreciate that it's mostly a CG fest with little substance. It has no sensible plot, and the fact that it was originally a 15 min CG demo which Square's executives decided to transform into a movie shows a bit too much. My main gripe with the "story" is that Cloud's state nullifies his whole character arc from the game. "Conflicts" were created out of the blue in order to drive a story, and these were poorly written and executed. It actually gives the feel of an "official bad fanfic" :S
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Do you even remember who he turned out to be originally? His true persona came out to be a man with an inferiority complex. Zack was originally the confident one until he got shot and Cloud's memories got messed up. I see manly people forget how fragile he was and how fast it can come back.
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Do you even remember who he turned out to be originally? His true persona came out to be a man with an inferiority complex. Zack was originally the confident one until he got shot and Cloud's memories got messed up. I see manly people forget how fragile he was and how fast it can come back.
Precisely. Originally Cloud is a good guy plagued with insecurities, feeling he would never live up to (his own) expectations. His character arc in the game comprises most of the elements of the Hero's Journey (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHerosJourney). He wears the mask of the "cocky Soldier 1st class" during half of the game, until the Reveal ("you're a puppet!"), Death (giving the black materia and all hell breaks lose), and Rebirth (Lifestream episode with Tifa). After his symbolic rebirth, he comes to terms with who he really is and is able to move on. At the end of the game, Cloud is not the same person as when he started (almost literally). This evolution/growth was nullified by AC's plot.
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Precisely. Originally Cloud is a good guy plagued with insecurities, feeling he would never live up to (his own) expectations. His character arc in the game comprises most of the elements of the Hero's Journey (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHerosJourney). He wears the mask of the "cocky Soldier 1st class" during half of the game, until the Reveal ("you're a puppet!"), Death (giving the black materia and all hell breaks lose), and Rebirth (Lifestream episode with Tifa). After his symbolic rebirth, he comes to terms with who he really is and is able to move on. At the end of the game, Cloud is not the same person as when he started (almost literally). This evolution/growth was nullified by AC's plot.
This is how I feel too. I love the CG, 95% of the characters and the voices to them with the exception to cloud and the three new bad guys and when your film revolves around the main hero and villains being whiny and why me it drags the film down.
At the end of the game cloud is no longer a loner he's a leader and know the his path.
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That's precisely it... they basically threw out all of Cloud's development as a character like it never happened. And we ended with this whiny guy who wants to commit suicide.
There simply was no thought going into things... I'm really not sure how that happens. If I was creating something of this magnitude, the first thing I'd be doing is planning the characters.
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You honestly think it is that simple? Things like what he experienced before don't leave some damage. Plus afterwards even after his time in the lifestream he still had his self doubt and inferiorities. It is a bit more subtle in the games but you can tell in the game he still has issues and problems that affect him. Towards the end before the final battles he had to get picked up my Barrett.
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You honestly think it is that simple? Things like what he experienced before don't leave some damage.
Yes, it is that simple... especially from a fiction point of view. Cloud had overcome his problems, he does that at Midhir. You have a whole section of the game designed to show how he has reconciled his past. And after that, not once does he lapse into any self doubt or self pity on anywhere near the scale of the film. In Advent Children, it starts with all that development null and void. You can always claim that something "can happen". I could wake up tomorrow and suddenly feel suicidal, but it's extremely unlikely and not at all believable. Why? Because there is nothing leading up to such a drastic and fundamental change in my character, even considering some really bad S**t that HAS happened to me in the past. And the same goes for Emo cloud.
Plus afterwards even after his time in the lifestream he still had his self doubt and inferiorities.
When? At what point does he show them? Give me some dialogue to demonstrate he is anything like Advent Children portrays.
It is a bit more subtle in the games but you can tell in the game he still has issues and problems that affect him. Towards the end before the final battles he had to get picked up my Barrett.
Picked up by Barrett? When? If you are referring to the ending sequence, that has nothing to do with feelings of being guilty or anything else that would lead to Advent Children's portrayal.
Advent Children actually portrays Cloud as WORSE than what he was at the start of the game. He's actually even more destroyed. It's unrealistic, unlikely, unbelievable and there is nothing at all to go by to make that plot development workable. It was added simply because they had no plan for the film and needed to manufacture some sort of plot, no matter how ridiculous. They needed Cloud to be back to square one (actually, worse) so that the showdown with Sephiroth (who is now magically alive again) would pay off like it did in the game. But the film does it in the most contrived and rushed way possible, with the minimal of plot development.
Which also brings me to the stupid "Geostigma", another shoe-horned plot device designed to buff up an almost non-existent story. The writers can get away with the idea that Mako or Jenova has caused some sort of disease, but it's contrary to everything we know about the game. Where was this disease for the last decade or so before? I'm debating this like the film had a justification to be made - it didn't. The game completed almost every arc and had a proper ending. No sequel was in mind, which is why making one to a tale that has ended falls flat on its face.
Cloud kills Sephiroth and the other Remnants of Sephiroth are felled as well. The spirit of Aerith Gainsborough brings down healing rain from the Lifestream, which cures everyone in contact with it of their Geostigma. Others can go to Aerith's church where a spring of water infused with pure energy from the Lifestream cures anyone
Now, ask yourself... is this a well written film? The answer is no.
The spirit of Aerith Gainsborough brings down healing rain from the Lifestream, which cures everyone in contact with it of their Geostigma
bwahahahaha! That's also a retcon, by the way. Everything we learn about the Lifestream in the game indicates that it is energy used to create other life. It is not a party of dead people. Sephiroth makes this clear also when he talks about Aerith "Living on as a part of me" as in her energy. Not her sodding soul. The Lifestream does not contain conscious souls that can manipulate events in this way. I am not even sure it contains conscious souls at all. But in Advent Children, what they hey, even she's back! And that ruins her death in the game, too.
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Did you forget his hole speech and his being terrified of Sephiroth? He was actually worse off at those points then in AC. When I get home I'll open the script and site some pretty good examples there plenty of them around disc two.
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Did you forget his hole speech and his being terrified of Sephiroth? He was actually worse off at those points then in AC. When I get home I'll open the script and site some pretty good examples there plenty of them around disc two.
I am pretty sure he killed Sephiroth in the game and ended his final torment. Why would this cause Cloud to be suicidal in Advent Children (if anything, shouldn't that actually be a GOOD thing)? And he wasn't terrified of Sephiroth at the end of the game. That was part of what I liked about the ending - the party and Cloud had grown into believable characters (aside from that lumbering fat b-stard) that now bravely faced their biggest challenge. The characters don't expect to live, but they confront Sephiroth anyway. I know what you are going to do already... you're going to rifle through a few quotes, string them together and try to squeeze some justification for the plot of AC... but it simply can't be done. The same as Rufus being resurrected cannot be made believable. People actually tried to do that by using dialogue from an NPC in Kalm who still appears to think Rufus is alive, but even that was wrong because it turned out to be a translation error.
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I think you misunderstood I was going to point out the fact that people seem to neglect and toss aside. Plus peoples minds are very different from each other. How they develop and cope with things are influenced by upbringing. I don't know if you are a psychiatrist or something but you can't really know how his mind can react to external factors. I have no interest in defending the plot of the movie I myself don't find it all that bad.
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Before I say anything, I'd like to preface everything by saying I don't think AC as a movie was particularly good. If I paid for it in the theater and knew nothing of the game, I'd probably not feel like I got my money's worth. I'd maybe give it a 4. However, AC is clearly created as fan service. The characters aren't given any background in the movie except for the occasional, brief flashbacks that would make no sense to anyone who hadn't played the game. That being said, even as fan service the best I can probably do is a 7.5. It didn't really feel like anything was accomplished at the end of the movie. There wasn't really a great "THEY DID IT!" moment.
As for geostigma, I thought geostigma had to do with Sephiroth having such a strong will that he influenced the lifestream to cause it? Much in the same way that Aerith influences it in the game to try to stop meteor. It has been a while since I've seen the movie or played the game, but I'm pretty sure this is accurate. Concerning Kadaj and... whatever the other two's names were... I'm sure there being 3 of them has some significance (probably along the lines of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit), but I personally think the movie would have been better off without them, or only having the one. Three seemed a little overkill.
As for Rufus living, it's not the first time in a movie or TV show where a character has clearly been killed only to be brought back a few episodes later with a flashback showing how they miraculously survived. Not saying I approve, but there's definite precedent.
Over the top battles and action sequences... In the game Tifa bodyslams giant monsters that are 1000x her size. Cid jumps some 80ft in the air and repeatedly dive bombs enemies. And Barrett summons laser beams from satellite dishes or something. It's not outside of the FF7 universe for the battles to be excessive.
If I remember correctly, AC takes place 2 years after FF7. With all the crying gamers did in real life over Aerith's death, it's not too far fetched to assume that someone close to her would feel depressed. Is 2 years too long to be depressed? God no. Especially when you start taking into account diseases like PTSD.
I know this is going to come off as grasping at straws, or even rabid fanboyism, but really the majority of the things taking place aren't out of the ordinary for the game world or even the real world. The only real fault of the movie is the story/writing (i.e. dilly dally shilly shally), and character development
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Two things I want to reply to there:
1. Yes, there is a precedent to retcon deaths... and it's nearly always a bad decision and / or poor writing. Just because a writer can make anything happen, doesn't mean he should. That severs the audience from the fiction. Bringing back clearly dead characters for no other purpose than fan service has no defence. I wouldn't have minded as much if there was a better reason, or better writing, and if it was only one character being retconned. I can't see any reason for Rufus to even be in the film, he didn't need to be there at all.
2. Game and Film are two different genres. If game battles were ultra realistic, there would be no game. What happens in a cutscene always takes precedence over battle in terms of plot. For example, Cloud falls through a church roof and is rendered unconscious. We accept this in the fiction because he was not left unscathed and because he is a super human. But the fiction does what is necessary, it gives us a justification for why he survived. Flower bed and roof broke his fall, he was lucky, and he is (we later find out) a super human. In Advent Children, he is slammed into a wall at 100mph, floats in the air, and is shot in the face (yeah, really!). No justification is given - it's these two things that are diametrically opposed to one another. We know that Cloud is a humanoid and it wrecks all believability.
A game battle is not meant to be taken literally (and nor is collecting balloons on a random slope)... if it was, houses would come alive (Hell House), and Cloud would survive shot gun shells (against Rufus, for example). In the cutscenes, we see Aerith die from a single stab, Cloud rendered unconscious from a fall, Tifa in a coma (almost died) from a fall, Dyne dead from a fall, Rufus dead from an explosion, Heidegger and Scarlet killed in battle (and note the death happens in a cutscene afterwards), Tifa almost killed by Sephiroth "I thought you were a goner" by a single slash, President Shinra killed by a sword to the back....and so on and so on.
It's far far more believable and better written in the game. These may sound like small things, but they aren't. They set a precedent that the characters can be killed, that they are not immortal. So you CARE about them. When you have tons of battles and anything can happen in them and your characters can survive clearly impossible situations with absolutely no justifications given, the suspension of disbelief fails and the fiction fails. This is also the reason why Game of Thrones works absolutely for the most part and why people can really absorb themselves into it.
If Tifa had summoned dolphins from thin air during a cut scene, I'd have a problem with it. But this only happens in battle. The balance of game mechanics v plot mechanics is correct and they hardly ever cross over for good reason. Fast forward to Advent Children and they broke that wall... and it makes the film absurd. Watching Cloud perform a limit break in a battle with Sephiroth in the film genre looks absolutely ridiculous, which is why a clever writer would have stayed well clear of it.
On Geostigma, I went online and the explanation given is that it was caused by Mako or Jenova cells (possibly your explanation is also valid, but it still sucks). The very fact this main plot point is in dispute only adds to the evidence that the narrative was crap.
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I found this gem from someone who hadn't played the game, and it kinda sums up the issues here. And worse... this film reinforces the stereotype people have of games having bad plots.
This *movie* proves two things. 1. It is the SUPREME poster child for the phrase all style and no substance,and 2. As long as the title Final Fantasy is slapped on something it will be hyped and adored to high heaven by SquareEnix's walking dollar signs A.K.A. fanatics no matter if the actual contents are complete and utter B.S. Ahhh I'm glad I rented this and didn't buy.
Plot: There isn't one. No seriously there isn't. There are these clips from the atrocious looking video game this *movie* was based on to try to explain what will be going on in the *movie*. Good luck trying to figure THAT out. Then when the actual crap begins there's a 1&1/2 minute storytelling bit from one of the characters in the game who still tries to get you to understand what you are about to see. Note to Enix if you must try THAT hard to get people to understand something maybe you shouldn't have marketed this as a movie in the first place. It seems that only people who have played the game will get this,but from most of the reviews I have read even THEY don't understand it. That's not good Enix. Anyway,hear how the loyal p*ss is gold fanatics tell it this is in fact a masterpiece of a movie. Yea..and I am the creator of the universe. No.. In truth this is a 90 minute CUTSCENE that was marketed as a movie so fans of the Final Fantasy games could slobber at the mouth at it. The one's who's brains have not been fried by the *Gods* known as Square- Enix know better.
Characters: Well It doesn't have plot so of course it doesn't have character development either.I mean really it's not like PLOT and CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT is important in a movie. Isn't that right Enix? Cloud: The main character in the literal sense of the word. He fights all of these long and BORING to watch battles all by himself while his friends sit in the sidelines watching. I'm serious. Tifa: Er..she was there for something. Um I guess she was there for the eye-candy factor Oh.. she said some things(That sounded like a whole lotta nonsense) to Cloud to make him feel better. Marlene and Denzel: Two orphans living with Cloud and Tifa. Do they have a point? No. Does this *movie* have a point? No. By the way they both get kidnapped by this clones of Oh I stabbed a girl through the back so I am the biggest baddie in gaming history a.k.a Sephiroth. For what reason? I have no idea. And now to the clones in question: Kadaj,Loz,and Yazoo. Three effeminate looking guys(This seems to be and ongoing theme in the Final Fantasy games. A man NEVER looks like one, and from looking at the character creator on the special features I can see why they never do) who have SERIOUS Obediah complex tendencies. They are looking for their mother and trust me you will NEVER forget that fact. They say it for ohh about a good TWENTY times. Their mother is this green goo in a box,and they are so royally p.o.ed they that can't find her so they infect every one in this city with this geostigma which can only it seems be cleansed by this powerful WATER(Rain?) from the sky. I have to mention that the stigma looks like DIRT. Seems to me all they needed was SOAP and WATER. Areith: A dead girl. Seriously. Who keeps showing up in Cloud's mind and even helps lift him in the air to fight this monster(Who also serves NO purpose). Did I mention she was DEAD. She had more screen time then some of the living characters. Reno and Rude: From the way they acted I suppose they were supposed to be the comic relief and yet they failed miserably on that. Very useless and unfunny characters. All the characters in this mess were useless. They were just more useless then others. Rufus Shinra: A man who I hear DIED in the game( In such a way that you were in NO doubt he was dead) just like Aerith and yet magically appears ALIVE in the movie. Okkay. Sephiroth: The supposedly ultimate baddie. He shows up at the end of the movie in all his 4 minute cameo glory just to die yet again. He'll be back though. I mean they killed him in the game,the *movie* and he still came back. Final Fantasy characters just don't STAY dead. There was some other characters to. Supposedly some of Cloud's friends we were suppose to care about,but they were in the movie(after showing up LITERALLY out of NOWHERE)for about 1&1/2 minutes so they don't bear mentioning.
Music: I liked most of it. It had this epic, creepy tone to it. Too bad the scenes this beautiful music was playing in didn't match it.
Dialogue. NO. Just NO. The phrase Dilly Dally, shilly shally (I'm Serious) is just one of the nuggets of incomprehension that will be uttered in this *movie*.
Visuals: Supreme Eye-candy. Very beautiful and mostly realistic looking. Now if only these beautiful visuals had some substance(Plot and Character Development)to make it complete.
Lastly Cloud and Co. can fly without wings for LONG periods of time.Cut through MOTORCYCLES with a sword. Get thrown through buildings without any kind of injury,get hit with buildings again with no injury. Get SHOT in the face, again you guessed it. No injury and so on and so on. I know it's called Final FANTASY,but come on. Even Fantasy have rules. At NO time will you be given the impression that Cloud and everyone else are anything but HUMAN and yet they can do all this stuff(The flying REALLY got out of hand) without no injury whatsoever.
Bottomline: This movie was a in actuality a cut-scene to satisfy Final Fantasy Fanatics around the globe wet dreams.
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This is also why I have no hope for a live action Devil May Cry movie there is nothing there at all. It's all action I've seen someone state something so true. For a DMC movie all you do is get all the combo clips together and then bam movie.
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Just some details:
Was it really mentioned ever in the game about Rufus being dead? Just some obscure FMV was shown.
Reminds me a little of the case of Tseng. Everyone thought he was dead too, for no reason.
Didn't Ifalna explain to Dr. Gast Faremis about the disease that Jenova spread among the ancients turning them into monsters?
Maybe the geostigma was inspired by that as it's suposed to be the alien lifestream of Jenova melted with the Planet's lifestream.
:wink:
Anyway, I don't think AC was ever meant for non FF7 fans, or FF fans in general. I myself don't consider it a movie or film, more like an OVA, maybe.
The Spirits Within was a good movie, but you know how it ended: forcing Sakaguchi to leave the company. :cry:
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Zeng was thought dead because the original localization said he was (wrongly translated). Japanese gamers were not confused in the slightest. Rufus, on the other hand, is blown away in his office. Not only can you see him lurch forward as his office explodes, but numerous characters say he is dead. The game was intended to be a standalone story. In Advent Children, they retcon the explosion and show Rufus bombarded with fire instead. It's still a joke, even there. But there is literally no doubt whatsoever that Rufus was killed.
Short of a close up of his heart stopping or his head flying off, I am not sure how much more obvious they could have made it. Which reminds me, when debating MGS with this rabid fanboy before, he actually suggested that Big Boss was never dead at all because the gamer did not see his heart stop. And he was serious.
As for Jenova, she infects the Cetra clans directly. In Advent Children, people she was never near are affected. As I said before, AC itself has dialogue suggesting that it may be Mako causing it. But nothing makes sense there anyway. Trying to make sense out of AC is an exercise in futility because even the writers don't know.
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The Spirits Within was a good movie, but you know how it ended: forcing Sakaguchi to leave the company.
I was pretty disappointed when my friend and me saw it in the cinema. The main question was 'Where is the connection to FF?'. The film is OK but has nothing to do with FF.
AC, as all the pre- and sequels, abuse the universe of FF7 and tells a lame story only to show as much familiar faces as possible to provoke nostalgic feelings. And none of them do respect the lore of FF7. And they say they are surprised how well it all fits together. :-\
I currently read the Nordic tale of Beowulf and if q-gears gets to an point where we can make a game with it, I will use this tale (btw. FF7 use the tale of Ragnarok) and make story which has an meaning full impact to FF7. Because the Elemental Crisis (only to go with SE's nomenclature) wasn't told at all:
As for Jenova, she infects the Cetra clans directly.
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Spirits Within was a badly written disaster, which is why it currently ranks as the number 7 box office bomb. That is not a tag ANY film wants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_box_office_bombs#Biggest_box_office_bombs_adjusted_for_inflation
I have no idea how 100 million or more can be thrown at a film and it ending up with such a useless plot and script.
Think of how many terrible films there are out there with large budgets and then think how bad Spirits Within had to be in every department (including publicity) for it to fail THAT badly.
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In regards to the Stigma it was Sephiroth still using his will in the lifestream corrupting it. Not sure exactly where is was stated but is somewhere when you look it up.
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Im glad im not alone to realize how fashion-emo ff7 movies(and sequels) are, for me the most important difference was with zack death ( not the movie but similar ) his death was sad to watch, no music, just the sound of the bullets killing a dying zack, he looked pathetic at this moment and that made his death even more awful, two guys shooting a young man full of dreams and projects.
In crisis core, he is smiling vs 65456776555 soldiers shooting at him, where is the sadness in this trash scene? they totally ruined one of the most epic moment, it was like watching a japanese remake of 300.
I remember a pessismist story, musics and background for most of the game, if the movie was supposed to be fan service they failed
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nobody ever thought about this, ac was only supposed to bring back the ffvii cast in some cheap dead or alive fighting scheme.
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Spirits Within and Advent Children are both so poorly written nobody besides die-hard fans (I am one, but even I had my troubles explaining them to others) has any idea what is going on in either of them. They are both technical marvels for the time and absolutely gorgeous animations for sure, but I don't think I really have any other praises to give other than that. For AC I will put up some pros and cons:
Pro: More Cloud!
Con: They ruined his character development and helped create the alternate universe where Cloud is emo and Squall is badass in Kingdom Hearts (I claim it all started with KH1 anyways).
Pro: Tifa, Aerith, and Yuffie are very attractive!
Con: Can't tell them apart from each other or Kadaj or Cloud. They all look like fairly bangable chicks.
Pro: Fight scenes have cool action!
Con: Action drags on too long and some scenes cross the line into absurdity.
Pro: New villains!
Con: The villains are extremely lame and in the worst way possible.
Pro: Sephiroth is awesome!
Con: He has no reason for being in the movie than the other villains sucking so hard.
Pro: The movie has some cool things in it!
Con: For every cool thing there are many more terrible things to bury it.
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In crisis core, he is smiling vs 65456776555 soldiers shooting at him, where is the sadness in this trash scene? they totally ruined one of the most epic moment, it was like watching a japanese remake of 300.
That goes right back to how good storytelling works. Less is often more, and realism often has a far bigger impact on you than crazy, over-the-top scenes. It's why the battle between Vader and Luke in Jedi is 1000000X superior to the prequel fights. If you watch it, Luke is just smashing him, there is no choreography nonsense that doesn't end. It's believable and feels real. Spinning around with super light sabres (think back to that stupid General Grevious) comes across as lame, tiresome and unnecessary. It doesn't make you feel anything.
Seeing Zack shot dead like a piece of nothing in the original game had far more impact. So many people fail to see this. It's why I have long been against a remake of VII... because I know they'll completely mess this up, just like when Metal Gear Twin Snakes added all those stupid Matrix stunts.
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just like when Metal Gear Twin Snakes added all those stupid Matrix stunts.
As bad as this was, it wasn't remotely the biggest problem with The Twin Snakes. Far worse was porting over the AI and new moves from Metal Gear Solid 2 without tweaking the levels to compensate. At least one boss became far too easy, and most of the carefully crafted stealth segments from the original simply didn't work right anymore. You can't design levels for a dumb AI and then stick in a smart one, y'know?
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Totally agree with luke fight, intense, short and realistic, I never had this feeling in the prequels, ( It looked more like a cartoon movie with all theses retarded androids and jarjar), and its sad because i really liked the idea of retracing the story of such interesting characters like vader, and obi. I personally think that movies follows the same path than videogames, tons of visual and empty story/backgrounds, Of course there is still exceptions..
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The mistake with the prequels starts with the word 'prequels'. The idea to maximize profits to tell a story that wasn't THAT deep and wasn't really needed (in the case of FF7 Preq-Seq they are totally redundant). A 3 hour film showing how Anakin turned to the Dark Side would have worked wonders (and it SHOULD have been done as a side story to a bigger story, NOT as the MAIN story). But, you see... they wanted maximum profits, not maximum storytelling. The same problem occurred with the Hobbit prequels...where they made a small book into 3 long CGI battle fests to compensate. Exact same reason, exact same outcome. The drive for money way, way outdoing the drive to make good art.
And it's being done again with the Star Wars sequels. Same mindset will only lead to same outcome.
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Totally agree on what you said DLBP. Prequels are mostly an excuse to get more money out of a popular plot and if the story as already finished you just go back in time and make up some nonsense story about any detail that wasn't fully explained yet (probably as you said, because nobody cared).
There are good prequels though, the third underworld movie for instance :-D
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As far as I'm concerned AC never happened and is not canon. It's a fanservice fanfic. Turn your brain off and it's cool to look at. That's all it got imo.
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Thats pretty much what I say whenever people bring up AC references or use it as a source on a ffvii discussion. For me that goes for the whole compilation, though. Genesis and all this nonsense wasnt there either.
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Thats pretty much what I say whenever people bring up AC references or use it as a source on a ffvii discussion. For me that goes for the whole compilation, though. Genesis and all this nonsense wasnt there either.
There's nothing more annoying than "debating" with someone who actually takes that badly written garbage seriously and as part of the story. It ain't. There's only one story in FF7 and that's the original game. It happens with Trek fans a lot too... they'll defend a badly written story by referencing something in the future... or debating episodes prior as if the future episodes were all preplanned. It really is absurd. It gets worse when people start to debate what characters would or would not have done. Like these characters are real people.
I've seen funny threads like "Who did Cloud like more, Tifa or Aerith?" The answer is... the characters are not real, therefore "he" could not "like" anything. The story doesn't even go into any real detail on that because it's just childish bullstrawberries. What matters is that you can understand and relate to the characters and that they are believable in the fiction. There is no "What did X think / do / feel" because they aren't real. It's what YOU feel and how YOU would react in those situations that has meaning.
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As far as I'm concerned AC never happened and is not canon. It's a fanservice fanfic. Turn your brain off and it's cool to look at. That's all it got imo.
Thats pretty much what I say whenever people bring up AC references or use it as a source on a ffvii discussion. For me that goes for the whole compilation, though. Genesis and all this nonsense wasnt there either.
https://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/They_Changed_It,_Now_It_Sucks
https://allthetropes.orain.org/w/index.php?title=Ruined_FOREVER_%28Darth_Wiki%29&redirect=no
https://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Fanon_Discontinuity
https://allthetropes.orain.org/wiki/Fanon
So anyone feels entitled enough as to say what's the canon or isn't, now? I hate when people think themselves as the owner of a story or series. They sometimes refer to hypothetical inconsistencies, most of the time false.
It's like what's happening now with Dragon Ball getting new content from the original author, Akira Toriyama, and people hating it without even having watched it, sometimes even saying they'd prefer more GT from Toei Animation or that it should have ended after the Freezer Saga on Namek. Similar to Star Wars with the Expanded Universe getting erased and new films being made. lol
This kind of fans are never happy. Never. They are usually the worst kind of fan an author has to deal with.
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In some stories, you may have a point. In FF7, it was designed as a closed story and that's why the additions don't work and retcon. The reason why I and others refuse to accept "ff7 canon" is because it was never designed to exist, is poorly implemented and written, and makes the original story worse when even thinking about it.
It's quite possible, and a lot more sane, to debate a standalone story as standalone. In short, I have absolutely no respect for what the writers did adding the preqs and seqs, and no respect for "ff7 canon". The prequels and sequels should never have happened and they only did because of money. The same with Star Wars and its ridiculous expanded universe, prequels and sequels.
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Artema, Im perfectly happy with ff7 because I love that game, I mod and play it and I just ignore anything else about the “compilation“. How an author of Squareenix has to deal with someone like me is none of my business, I never asked for any extra ff7 canon and especially with the stuff that exists it is most obvious that it is only about money. They shall stop raping good old ff7 just for coin I just dont accept that.
Whats making sense is making newer releases of the original game for modern platforms. I really appreciate the steam port, that was well done.
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@Artema there is truth there. IF you consider fiction as a whole that is. When being franchise specific it can get complicated to pinpoint these terms. Especially when it comes to canon vague franchises such as the FF universe.
Some people say dissidia is canon. Some people say kingdom hearts is canon. Even ATB could be canon.
If AC is canon then I'm proud to display my "Fanon Discontinuity".
Actually I'm not THAT big of a fan. I guess if an outsider was asked, he/she would probably say AC is canon. However, when that same outsider is asked if AC is necessary in the FF7 universe, they would probably answer no.
AC, if taken seriously, imo, makes FF7 worse. And the more spin-offs and other FF7 related media you drag in, the worse it gets. Imo.
That being said, I can't say I really care much. I do care in the sense I wish it was better. At least it looks cool and has good action and stuff.
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If i remember well the original FF7 team is different from the guys who made AC, if that was EXACTLY the same team i would accept that AC is canon , ofc i'll still be mad but i'll accept the fact(just like for star wars)
The guys who have made FF compilation thought FF7 was great because Cloud and sephiroth was cool looking, had big swords and superhuman powers. They dont give a sh*t about the story itself , the pessimist background, the personnallity of each characters,even Caith sith story in the game is more interesting than any AC character's.
I remember these guys in a making of saying things like they spent TONS of time on the mouth's animations, visual is cool sure but theses money makers doesnt desserve the word canon on their work,even if they own the rights
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If i remember well the original FF7 team is different from the guys who made AC, if that was EXACTLY the same team i would accept that AC is canon , ofc i'll still be mad but i'll accept the fact(just like for star wars)
They were both written by Kazushige Nojima, but AC and the rest of the compilation were kinda mandated by Square Enix rather than written because the actual staff had an idea.