Author Topic: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?  (Read 29466 times)

Shard

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Those of you in the US who are eligible to vote and currently support Clinton or Trump, I honestly want to know what the fern is wrong with you.

What is the appeal of Hillary Clinton? Are you just so stupid and tunnelvisioned that you don't remember anything she says 5 minutes after she says it? If you tell me one thing she said that you agree with, there's a 95% chance I can find a video of her saying exactly the opposite. She's a chronic liar. She's just good at telling stupid people what they want to hear.

What is the appeal of Donald Trump? Ok, what I really mean here is, even if you think Trump is a good candidate, are you willing to risk putting Sarah Palin in a position of power? Voting for any ticket with her name on it should be considered treason because it will undoubtedly cause the government to collapse. I'm being completely serious. The only people who would ever vote for her are people who want to see the country fail. She's had 8 years of practice since the last election and she still can't complete a sentence.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. Most of the people in this community are pretty bright.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-29 03:55:06 by Shard »

nfitc1

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #1 on: 2016-01-29 04:36:59 »
I don't like any of our options this term. It's not just the celeb frontrunners, I mean the competent ones that are trailing behind in the "poles".

Celebrities have the potential for being decent pres. Reagan managed it. I don't think know Trump would be a terrible Pres. His foreign policies would disgrace our country for decades after his impeachment.

I'm also not against a female pres. But I don't want THAT ill-tempered ultra fem b**** in control of our military!

Sanders, Cruz et al aren't impressing me either. That actually might be the media's fault. They focus more on Clinton and Trump because they're the front-runners. Yahoo clearly wants us to hate Trump and love Clinton (or maybe there really IS nothing redeemable about Trump) and I've left several comments on their Trump articles about how they always pick the dumbest pictures of him, but I digress.

Actually, I'm going to refrain from saying more. I have nothing positives to say about any of the candidates and it's hard to type out long diatribes on a phone while partially propped up in bed. Man, I really need sleep. %( Maybe more tomorrow.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #2 on: 2016-01-29 17:46:52 »
They are all liars Shard, they are all playing to win. For most people, the most likeable personality gets their vote because that is their only metric for comparison. I imagine the majority of people who actually vote and hold very strong opinions toward one candidate or another don't actually know each candidate's true stance on most issues. It's kind of stupid. Part of Trump's appeal is that he just says whatever he thinks, there isn't a thick lawyer-esque facade covering everything, even if what he says is pretty racist and ridiculous, he sounds honest-ish in his ideas.

Edit: If my only options are sociopaths, my vote goes to Frank Underwood. The deep southern accent is endearing.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-29 17:53:40 by KnifeTheSky77 »

obesebear

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #3 on: 2016-01-29 18:01:21 »
People like Clinton because they recognize her name.  There are also more than a few people that think "It's time for a woman president"

People like Trump because he stands up against the establishment and he doesn't play games like other politicians (If he wins, I'm actually very curious to find out how much of what he says is just pandering to the right demographic so he can get votes)

You know what the real problem is though?  Education.  We're so damn uneducated and gullible that it's likely one of these two will be president.  It's a god damned disaster.  Just look at the other options in the republican party if you really want to see how pathetic things have gotten.

White Wind

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #4 on: 2016-01-29 19:55:59 »
Politics.. I feel we're all in the same boat anyway, American or not. Each time, we're given a "choice" between 3 or 4 puppets, all planning to head towards the same horizon.. be it puppet n°3 or puppet n°1 or whichever, they all do the same things just not the same way, and the result is the same anyway. Countries are multinational companies and politics have no other desire than leading them as that, and they're not gonna listen to anyone. They've been preaching change for ages now, they do every time, and either people trusting it or not they won't stop the masquerade.

nfitc1

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #5 on: 2016-01-29 21:20:43 »
You know what the real problem is though?  Education.  We're so damn uneducated and gullible that it's likely one of these two will be president.  It's a god damned disaster.  Just look at the other options in the republican party if you really want to see how pathetic things have gotten.

This is the fundamental flaw in any democracy. If EVERYONE is allowed to vote then even the uninformed weigh-in on important decisions. If I were a rocket scientist (which KSP is constantly teaching me that I'm not :) [RIP, Jebediah...again]) then I wouldn't want lawyers "voting" on where to put my engines. Theoretically the information on every candidate is out there, but unless you are equally and unbiasedly (that's apparently not a word) informed on each candidate or side of every issue then you're voting incorrectly.

Mostly I end up voting AGAINST a candidate, which is equally as valid, but I'll never exactly get what I want in a president.

Relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90RajY2nrgk

JamesGoblin

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #6 on: 2016-02-09 12:43:46 »
I see the question as ironically pointless.

Namely, I am not judging candidates based on their verbal appearance, education, passion or charisma - and if you remove that, there is basically no difference, thus no choice.

Cupcake

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #7 on: 2016-02-10 01:15:30 »
I see the question as ironically pointless.

Namely, I am not judging candidates based on their verbal appearance, education, passion or charisma - and if you remove that, there is basically no difference, thus no choice.

You could always judge candidates based on their historical stances on key issues.  When it comes down to that, Sanders is quite different from all the other candidates, and then becomes the obvious choice.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #8 on: 2016-02-10 01:42:04 »
Bernie seems pretty likeable, but he's also 74 years old. He would be closing in on 80 after his hypothetical first term. He should have ran two or three decades ago

obesebear

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #9 on: 2016-02-10 01:53:55 »
True, he's old. But him getting elected can show the population that we do still have some say in politics and can change things.

As well as he and trump are doing, I think at least by next election we will start to see a real change in government.

I'm not saying I like trump, I'm saying people like him because they perceive him as anti establishment

yarLson

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #10 on: 2016-02-10 03:56:28 »
The problems in the political institutions are mirrors of the problems of the human institution and therefore will not be resolved until the underlying driving motive of this species shifts.  I can argue effectively that the core human motive in the majority of this world is a perverted type of greed. I'd like to note that, in my opinion, greed in it of itself is actually a positive driving motive.  In the truest sense of greed and individual would realize that by doing best for his species he is doing best for himself as well, and harming others can only create conditions in which he is at greater risk of also being harmed. This is not philosophical or mystical but simply mathematical.  However the kind of greed that drives this species is not pure, it is more of a desire to position oneself over others than to really do best for oneself. 

In other words a person in this society is willing to sacrifice even their own best interest in an effort to fulfill their underlying base desire to dominant others and/or gain material advantage.  This takes into account that a human being can often act in conflict to what would actually be the best outcome for them in any given situation.  A simple hypothetical; a billionaire who is grossly obese.  Obviously it is not in his best interest to be grossly obese however his pursuit for power over others is far more motivating and dominating in his psyche than his own physical well being, and furthermore there is no force in his life strong or influential enough to convince him that he urgently needs to change his will.  In fact its quite the opposite, since he is a billionaire most of his actions are rewarded with material gain regardless of his underlying intent, and the behaviors that drive his obesity are reinforced positively.  This is just a surface level example and the reality is even more frightening as all of us have deluded ourselves in one fashion or another regardless of social status or position. Its probably the one thing I have noticed that we all share.

To fully understand the complexity of the issue you have to have the ability to observe the system completely neutral to your position within it.  Which is impossible for a single human being to do, as we will inevitable become blind to our own bias at one turn or another and not even realize when we have entered the realm of ignorance.  Therefore no one person is fully aware as to the full extent of the "human" problem and so there can be no one person who can fully realize and therefore fully formulate a solution.  That's not to say that brilliant minds cannot formulate technological solutions to core human problems such as energy or hunger.  However, implementing those technologies is out of the individuals hands and requires a collective desire to solve each problem in the best possible way, regardless of short term gains or position.  Unfortunately, the solution lies in reaching out and comparing our differences and accepting our individual disparities between one another and using that knowledge to fill the void in our competencies against our biases.  That type of practice is in direct contradiction to a system that promotes dominance as the core human virtue. 

We live in a system where it is okay to be ignorant so long as you are also rich.  It is considering respectable to commit despicable acts of human violence so long as the shareholders stock increases.  Essentially this system actually promotes and rewards criminals so long as they are never actually caught.  In others words con artists rule the world.  People who are best at covering their tracks.  That is hardly the kind of person who should have sway over the most important decisions facing our species.  And we see the consequences of this every day we draw breath.  These situations are so plain, and so overwhelming that most of us simply chose to blatantly ignore what is in front of our face and deny the intellect we inevitable are given.  People are not stupid.  They are choosing not to act on their intelligence out of an underlying fear of change.  One that has been coding into our very DNA.  After all, from an evolutionary standpoint, change presents a very real risk of extinction.

It is ironic then, that the only way we can prevent extinction is by overcoming our evolutionary impulses and choosing to act on our highest ideals.  In other words to evolve we have to embrace the intelligence that lies dormant in most everyone.  You can't turn off your brain, you can only ignore its output.  Its a very profound and beautiful struggle for our intelligence to assert its dominance over impulse and lead us to an era where unlike other animals we are truly guided by our best thought rather than our first one.  However nobody really knows if we can or will reach this point before we have crossed the proverbial "point of no return".

I'm not trying to frame this as if I know the solution to this system because I definitely do not.  I am just cutting it as plain as I can try from my own bias point of view.  However I definitely know enough to know that their are better systems of voting in other countries that are more effective at representing the point of view of all the different groups of interests in a society than the system that we have.  I just get frustrated when people put so much stock into the political system when that system is never going to be the one where the change sparks.  In fact the political institution will undoubtedly be the last stronghold of ignorance on humanities path to intellectual maturity.  Its seems to me as the last place to look for change, at least certainly not the first.
« Last Edit: 2016-02-10 04:01:34 by yarLson »

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #11 on: 2016-02-10 04:36:24 »
True, he's old. But him getting elected can show the population that we do still have some say in politics and can change things.

As well as he and trump are doing, I think at least by next election we will start to see a real change in government.

I'm not saying I like trump, I'm saying people like him because they perceive him as anti establishment

Don't get me wrong, if I absolutely had to pick one of them I'd go with Bernie, but he'd better pick a young and like minded VP if senility or nature strikes. If he won, wouldn't he be the oldest active U.S. president? 84 ish years old after two full terms, I don't know if anyone could do that job at that age

obesebear

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #12 on: 2016-02-10 21:32:16 »
Should he get elected, I'd be surprised if he served two terms.  My guess is he would get down to business in that first term and not have to worry about trying to get reelected

Cupcake

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #13 on: 2016-02-11 13:18:58 »
1) Bernie may be old; but he is in pretty damn good health, especially considering his age

2) The problem even if we do manage to get him elected, is not whether or not he will get down to business, but whether or not he CAN get down to business.  Same thing happened with Obama; the Republicans stonewalled him every chance they got, in the hopes that he'd be viewed as a failure and become a one-term president.  That only half-worked, he's viewed as a failure, and I feel that's a bit unjust.  It's not that he didn't bring change, it's more that he couldn't.  Unfortunately, people view them both as the same thing.

nfitc1

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #14 on: 2016-02-11 13:38:44 »
the Republicans stonewalled him every chance they got, in the hopes that he'd be viewed as a failure...
This is so true. So many blatant LIES were spread about the affordable health care act by Republicans that most of my "intelligent" friends are completely against it. However, I know loads more people that only have health insurance now because of it and can actually afford the medicines and supplies they NEED to survive now.
Repubs were also so anti-Obama that they allowed the government to literally stall for days over budget issues rather than come up with some temporary compromise. I can't trust Republicans anymore, but I don't like Democrats either. USA politics really suck. :P

obesebear

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #15 on: 2016-02-11 15:50:40 »
I think the good thing about Sanders is he gets people involved and excited. He realizes for him to win, mass amounts of people have to vote. That could in turn result in establishment senators losing their seats in following elections

StickySock

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #16 on: 2016-02-11 17:23:02 »
I will get a lot of hate for posting this, but I mean no ill-will, I am just passionate about these topics and some of it gets a little close to offensive. I've tried to make sure all of the offensive bits aren't directed at anyone in particular, but are more of rant towards ideas that bother me.


Young/naive people fall in love with Bernie Sanders, because his messages apply to people who have not yet been exposed to real life, for one reason or another. It's easy to go into a campaign promising all these great things (free this, free that, etc.) expecting that it will help everyone and not hurt anything. It's borderline idiotic.

"Increase minimum wage to $15 per hour!" One of the dumbest sentiments I've heard in the race, quite possibly stupider than Trump's Muslim immigration ban. People don't seem to understand that areas with low wages tend to have products for sale at lower costs (a lower cost of housing, in particular). Some people make around $15 per hour in those areas now, and have some sort of a living going for themselves, but as soon as minimum wage is increased to $15, the difference between their wage and the bottom is eliminated. Now, suddenly, their $15 per hour has the same value in terms of local purchasing ability as the person who was making $8-$9 per hour minimum wage before, which is nothing. Will the businesses raise the pay of all their employees to reflect the increase in minimum wage? Hell no, business are not going to pay out more from the bottoms of their hearts, they will try to save money any way they can. Even if they did adjust, just follow me here: Say minimum wage is $10, then it is increased to $15, now someone making $20 per hour  had a purchasing power of 200% minimum wage which is now 133%, and if the business raised their wage to $25 per hour it would only be at 166% the minimum wage. You would have to have your wage increased to $30 per hour to have the same type of purchasing power as you used to, and no business is going to do that. The people hurt the most by increasing minimum wage are the people who managed to get a decent job making money over it.

Not only that, but business's are going to start looking to cut lazy workers, because since every worker must be valuable to a business to be employed, all the slack-jaw lazy ass people who are wanting the government to increase their pay will be fired because they aren't worth $15 per hour in terms of productivity. The market will eventually work itself out, but businesses sure as hell are not going to be the ones who take the hit, it will be all the hard working people who tried to get ahead in life, being slowed down by the people demanding they get paid more for nothing.

Then he also wants to tax the rich more, which, I'm not even going to argue against at this point, but you're going to trust a POLITICIAN and the government to do something good with money they stole from people who earned it? There is definitely corruption in corporations and with all the strawberries they pull with lobbyists, but acting like imposing a high tax on high income people is also completely moronic. You're effectively insuring you will never in your lifetime, and possibly the lifetime of your entire lineage, will never become wildly rich and successful. It's easy to take from people who have when you don't, but when you have an opportunity to make money, don't complain when someone comes and takes it all and donates it to charity because they thought you had more than you deserve.

I don't like either the democrats or the republicans as they are both completely and totally corrupt. But everyone (especially college students and the jobless losers from places like Portland Oregon) need to get Bernie's 90-year-old wrinkled knob out of their throat and think about how all of his magical promises might actually come true.

This is so true. So many blatant LIES were spread about the affordable health care act by Republicans that most of my "intelligent" friends are completely against it. However, I know loads more people that only have health insurance now because of it and can actually afford the medicines and supplies they NEED to survive now.
Repubs were also so anti-Obama that they allowed the government to literally stall for days over budget issues rather than come up with some temporary compromise. I can't trust Republicans anymore, but I don't like Democrats either. USA politics really suck. :P

I've also had first-hand experience of people who COULD afford health insurance who now have to wait until November to get health insurance, because the idiocy of Obamacare has it so people can only sign up for Obamacare during open enrollment. (Yes, I understand risk and special enrollment periods, but its still absolutely retarded that there is no way to actually sign up, even with a penalty or something, once you have missed open enrollment). That's just one example. In the area where I live, if you have insurance 100% free, nearly every office in the area will have you waiting from 6-8 months just to see specialist or dentist or just about anything. Not to mention the fact that these places often have the worst customer service, and are pretty awful all around. Some aspects have been "okay" revolving obamacare, but in terms of it being a substantial improvement on what we had before, it is pretty terrible (don't get me started on how hospitals and other health services are being reimbursed by arbitrary "value" measures that don't have clear definitions and are instead in place in a way that leads companies to "game" the system to prop these numbers up as much as possible to get the highest reimbursement). We definitely needed reform, and it could have even been public healthcare, but Obamacare failed to do anything that great. We could have just copied Canada's healthcare system for Christ's sake.






---------------------------------------------------------------
A question everyone forgets when it comes to making sure EVERYONE has health care, is whether or not it is morally ethical to force charity on someone. If there was a world where no one had any taxes, or any obligations, and made money completely independent of each other, is it right to force the successful ones to care for those who are not? Maybe the end justifies the means for some people, but I'm not entirely sold. At the end of the day, the crushing inevitability of death that will engulf EVERY SINGLE HUMAN LIFE EVER means that making sure people have access to healthcare may not be the most important thing in the universe. Maybe making sure we aren't actively hurting some people's lives in order to prop up others with no attempt at fairness or consent might be a bigger issue. Personally, when I eventually end up on the low side of life I don't want to feed off of others like a leech on life-support, I'd rather find use for myself, be self-sufficient, or be dead because death is something we all have to accept at some point. We can't force others to make sure we stay alive, especially because of how futile it is.
« Last Edit: 2016-02-11 17:36:15 by StickySock »

DLPB_

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #17 on: 2016-02-11 18:06:07 »
Socialism works until the money (tax payers') runs out.  As for Obama, he is a weak president who armed IS and brought about the situation in Egypt.  Blaming the Republicans for his failed leadership is non constructive and, imho, excuse making. Obama can't even bring himself to say "Islamic terrorism"  - he prefers workplace violence.

For all Trump's "ills", he is at least a realist who says what he thinks.

As for his Muslim ban - I don't that's idiotic at all.  Foreign Muslims coming to the US should be under far more scrutiny.  There are 130 French families who would agree.  Obama wants to allow thousands of Syrians and other "refugees" into the US that cannot possibly be checked. That's criminal negligence, and Merkel did the same with Germany.  Nobody will care about "hoooooman rights"  when arms and legs are flying.  They'll just wonder why these people were even allowed in.

Do you think Japan would allow it?  No.  And no one expects them to, because they'd be laughed at for even suggesting it.

But it's all a waste of time anyway.  I don't think republicans stand a chance, because certain sections of America - especially black people, welfare claimants, and women - will vote democrat, even if the Democrat candidate were a self-confessed murderer.  Most of the electorate vote based on personal greed and emotion. This will change, of course, as soon as things get far worse, and America is driven into the ground with rampant socialism.  Europe is falling to bits, btw, for the same reason.

So many like to bang on about how "ridiculous" the Republican Party is - but the Republicans are not stupid enough to have Hillary as president.

So Democrats can enjoy their victory - but it won't last long term. That's not to say the republicans will fix all the issues either.  They have their own types of silliness to contend with.
« Last Edit: 2016-02-11 19:50:24 by DLPB »

obesebear

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #18 on: 2016-02-11 21:18:21 »
I'd like to first give my credentials for not being young and for having definitely been exposed to "real life".
The highest minimum wage (adjusted for inflation) was something like $8.50 an hour I think.  So while 7.25 is on the low side, it's not too far off the norm.  I think a lot of people demanding huge increases in minimum wage simply don't know how to live within their means (most likely due to a poor education/upbringing).
I don't understand the problem with businesses cutting lazy workers?  Do you want income? Do you know you'll be fired for being lazy?  Solution: quit being lazy.

There is a TON of corruption in politics.  That's basically Sanders slogan.  No one else up there is preaching about the rich getting richer by pushing their agendas in Congress. 

I'm not trying to straw man your argument, but I think you're linking money with happiness saying people will never become wildly rich and successful.  Recent studies have shown that people who make around 60k are the happiest.  I would argue that being happy in life is far more important than making millions.

The problem with the Affordable Care Act is that it was originally crafted so that it could get through a corrupt Congress.  It didn't work.  So it had to be cut and cut and bastardized to the point that it's barely helpful at all.  That's why it's not some great magical healthcare reform.  It can't be.  There's too much corruption for something like that to happen.  But there's hope.  One candidate is running on a platform to battle all that corruption.

As far as everyone having healthcare, the US is arguably one of the most powerful and influential countries in the world.  Why in the hell can't we take care of our own citizens?  Yes everyone will die, but if you get a bad cut on your leg, and don't go to the hospital because of lack of insurance/healthcare, it gets infected and you die because you couldn't afford it, there's something wrong there.  We aren't some third world country.  We need to realize that the extremely rich are taking advantage of the system and us, and put a stop to it.  We need to quit putting a fucking price on everything.  A man shouldn't have to choose between feeding his family or getting his bad hip replaced so he can continue to work/live.

As for Trump, I like to think that the President should represent the best of us.  That isn't Trump.  Trump is an expression of our anger at the system.  Yes things need to change, but Jesus Christ, if Trump gets elected that's just one more step (leap) towards Idiocracy
« Last Edit: 2016-02-11 21:21:16 by obesebear »

Cupcake

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #19 on: 2016-02-11 22:39:35 »
I'd like to first give my credentials for not being young and for having definitely been exposed to "real life".
The highest minimum wage (adjusted for inflation) was something like $8.50 an hour I think.  So while 7.25 is on the low side, it's not too far off the norm.  I think a lot of people demanding huge increases in minimum wage simply don't know how to live within their means (most likely due to a poor education/upbringing).
I don't understand the problem with businesses cutting lazy workers?  Do you want income? Do you know you'll be fired for being lazy?  Solution: quit being lazy.

It's not even a matter of not knowing how to live within your means sometimes.  Let's say I work at minimum wage in NJ, where I live, which is $8.38. and say I work 40 hours a week, every week of the year.  This gives me a grand total of $17,430.40 before taxes.  Where I live, you're lucky if you can get a single bedroom apartment for less than $1,200 a month.  That alone comes to $14,400.  This leaves you with $3,030.40 for food, utilities (if they're not included in your rent), transportation, and other necessities (such as toilet paper) for the entire year.  This is without even factoring in taxes.  It is literally impossible to support yourself on minimum wage here, and I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no reason that any person in this country should not be able to support at the very least, themselves, on minimum wage.

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There is a TON of corruption in politics.  That's basically Sanders slogan.  No one else up there is preaching about the rich getting richer by pushing their agendas in Congress. 

I'm not trying to straw man your argument, but I think you're linking money with happiness saying people will never become wildly rich and successful.  Recent studies have shown that people who make around 60k are the happiest.  I would argue that being happy in life is far more important than making millions.

This is part of what makes Sanders such a great candidate.  He's also very upfront in saying that he alone will not be able to change anything, he is but one man...  but he can get the ball rolling, so to speak.

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The problem with the Affordable Care Act is that it was originally crafted so that it could get through a corrupt Congress.  It didn't work.  So it had to be cut and cut and bastardized to the point that it's barely helpful at all.  That's why it's not some great magical healthcare reform.  It can't be.  There's too much corruption for something like that to happen.  But there's hope.  One candidate is running on a platform to battle all that corruption.

As far as everyone having healthcare, the US is arguably one of the most powerful and influential countries in the world.  Why in the hell can't we take care of our own citizens?  Yes everyone will die, but if you get a bad cut on your leg, and don't go to the hospital because of lack of insurance/healthcare, it gets infected and you die because you couldn't afford it, there's something wrong there.  We aren't some third world country.  We need to realize that the extremely rich are taking advantage of the system and us, and put a stop to it.  We need to quit putting a ferning price on everything.  A man shouldn't have to choose between feeding his family or getting his bad hip replaced so he can continue to work/live.

Let's not also forget that the original Affordable Care Act was written by republicans.  However, the Republican party's distaste for Obama was so great, they essentially forced him to gut the bill, and fill it with crap that changed nearly nothing in the health care system of the United States, which I'm sorry to say, is a very poor model of health care.  Health care shouldn't be reserved for the wealthy and the wealthy alone.  It's something we all need, and something we can absolutely make a reality; but not if the right wing has anything to say about it.

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As for Trump, I like to think that the President should represent the best of us.  That isn't Trump.  Trump is an expression of our anger at the system.  Yes things need to change, but Jesus Christ, if Trump gets elected that's just one more step (leap) towards Idiocracy

Trump is.... I don't even want to get started on Trump, so I won't.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #20 on: 2016-02-12 17:02:30 »
Tin foil hat time: does anyone feel like things would generally not change much no matter who gets elected?

There is so much money floating around, that it seems nearly impossible to curb its influence. I remember the Obama campaign, it was all about making change. He had my support because he made it seem like he was going to pop the artificially inflated industries caused by the war on drugs. In actuality, when he got into office the budgets for those programs actually increased. I'm not sure if that can be attributed to systematic lying or a real lack of influence that the president actually has.

obesebear

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #21 on: 2016-02-12 20:06:06 »
A drastic change?  No.  But I think if we keep pecking at it here and there, making tiny baby dents, eventually something will give.

DLPB_

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Vgr

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #23 on: 2016-03-02 13:12:34 »
100% relevant:



Or yeah, not really.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Trump & Clinton supporters: What is wrong with you?
« Reply #24 on: 2016-03-02 16:35:49 »
That is even better than the lightning_cloud mashup