@hian: My problem with the Cloud-Zack connection in Crisis Core is that Cloud was indeed pragmatic, arrogant, and quite the sarcastic anti-hero from the start of the game, and that persona really only broke down after Cloud's recovery from Mako poisoning and he realized who he was again. After that, Cloud, while still being a little snarky was way more similar to how Zack is portrayed in Crisis Core. When Cloud finally regained himself, he was a little more goofy, a little more kind, and a lot more optimistic (which completely through me off when I watched AC for the first time).
If Cloud really took on Zack's persona at the end of Crisis Core he would have acted like Zack to begin with, and then changed into his own personality at the end. Instead, it seems Cloud's personality at the end is more similar to Zack in Crisis Core.
Quoted for effing truth. I keep saying the same thing. If anything - in the original, pre-memory fix Cloud has more in common with Sephiroth than with Zack, making the comparison between Cloud and Zack utterly bizarre.
Unfortunately, people who aren't fans of the original game like to claim that Cloud is just an "emo anime character" and Sephiroth is a girly "momma's boy". If anyone actually took the time to play and understand the original without just lazily absorbing all of the retcons from the later entries in the "compilation" they might actually see the characters for the charm they have..
Yeah. FF7 fandom has a serious issue with consisting of a large population of "fans" that aren't actually fans of the FF7, but of all the other stuff that was produced later.
It annoys me to no end how these people, who don't even really like the source material all that much and who's primary love for what they think FF7 is, is based on spin-off material, feel entitled to have the source material be reshaped to fit their misconceived and bastardized view of how it ought to be as an extension of the spin-offs.
This is seriously backwards. If anything, the reasonable thing is for the spin-offs to either take a hike entirely, or be reshaped to actually fit the original narrative.
I always felt that Kingdom Hearts is the original culprit for this, because somehow Cloud ended up being mopey (because Nomura thought he'd be cooler that way I guess) and Squall had the personality Cloud did from the original. When I played that game for the first time I joked that Squall and Cloud had switched bodies apparently, since what I distinctly remember from Squall in FF8 are all of his "I don't care", "Whatever...", and "..." lines. Squall got renamed Leon and generally got a bad@$$ makeover, while Cloud stole Vincent's clothes and went emo for some reason.
This is probably true. Though I also think that a lot of people just sorta forgot what Cloud was originally like playing the game.
Time passed, people played FF8 and FF9 etc. and the only memories that stuck with them from FF7 were naturally the most iconic ones, like the death of Aerith etc. where Cloud is, understandably, very emotional and very sad. Those scenes though, conspire to render their impression of Cloud as being largely emotional and sad as a character when they can't remember any of his other traits.
I'm playing the OG in Japanese on my PS Vita right now, and there, it's more obvious than ever that pre-memory fix Cloud has absolutely nothing in common with Zack what so ever. If anything, compared to the western localization, Cloud is a real jaded a-hole. His speech pattern, and sociolect shows him as often being condescending and mean - like a less slang-ridden Barret and less swearing Cid, but just as abrasive but without "a heart of gold" to compensate for it like the two other characters. It really isn't except when Tifa calls up memories of his old self, or when Aerith starts kicking on his heart-strings that Cloud shows any signs of being anything more than his SOLDIER persona in the beginning of the game.
I'm going to have to stop ranting at some point but I have to get something else off my chest as well. Cloud's obsession with Aerith is waaaaayyyyyy overblown in the compilation. Cloud was sad that he let Aerith die, yes, but he was way more confused and upset with not knowing who he truly was or how Sephiroth could control him. He went crazy because he was trying to figure out who he was, not being depressed Aerith died. In the game he came to terms with Aerith's death and had the resolve to finish what Aerith started, which was to stop Sephiroth and save the planet. AC's entire plot was that Cloud was still sad he saw both Zack (his supposed best friend) and Aerith die in front of him and was powerless to save them, and now he and Denzel (where the F did they decide to pull that character out of? And why was Barrett not taking care of Marlene? I swear AC sometimes....) have FF7 cancer (stigma?) and he is afraid he is powerless to stop it once again. Cloud already came to terms with Aerith's death, did not even know Zack THAT well, Denzel came out of nowhere, and stigma was just a plot device set up to get Cloud to relapse again and rehash the same character development arc from the game. I don't even know what else to say about it rather than point out the absurdity of it all. /end rant
I'm not sure what he was more sad about in the original - because he was obviously quite messed up over the death of Aerith. However, FF7 ended on a positive note, I would say, with Cloud coming to terms with her death to some extent.
As for Zack's death - well, after Cloud gets his memories fixed, Zack's death doesn't exactly seem to feature very prominently in Cloud's mind at all. He makes one mention of it to his team-mates on board Highwind, and then never mentions it again (further solidifying the fact that Cloud probably didn't have a particularly close relationship with Zack - if at all beyond that of the Nibelheim incident).
After all, Zack was not original intended to be a part of FF7's story.
His character was essentially a tongue in cheek easter-egg reference to Cloud's old design.
Zack was what Cloud was first envisioned as, in terms of appearance - and so the entire Zack/Cloud sub-plot is a reference to that incident in the development cycle were Cloud, as we known, was born, and the other (Zack) was scrapped.
The entire identity crisis theme is a silly analogy -
Cloud is actually Zack (because Cloud the character was made out from "Zack"/Black haired Cloud), but he's also essentially just Cloud because "Zack" was never really made, nor fleshed out - and so the entire Crisis Core flash-back and the escape from Shinra Mansion flashback reflects this.
Zack never really has any substantial character worth speaking of for that very reason - Real Cloud is similar to Zack for this reason too - because on the drawing board they were the same character.
The simple, callous and nameless death of Zack in the OG also fits perfectly with how easily and callously the original design for Cloud was scrapped and replaced (which is on par for the course in game-development during the concept stages).
This is why essentially CC as a game and as a story spits in the face of the original game, the original creative vision, and the meaning and purpose behind the original Zack story, and why I could never really like it despite the fact that the game has decent game-play and a pretty entertaining story in and of itself.
As a part of the compilation, it's just another stain on the legacy of FF7.
