Author Topic: [FF7PC-98] The Reunion (OLD THREAD, SAVED FOR POSTERITY)  (Read 1264613 times)

Covarr

  • Covarr-Let
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 3941
  • Just Covarr. No "n".
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2250 on: 2013-10-16 20:54:06 »
That's fine. If there's a way to make it work, I'll figure it out myself if need be :P

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2251 on: 2013-10-16 23:39:38 »
In other news:

I've created a small tool to rip relevant text out of the game and so forth, so it will be easier for Lex to check entire Cait dialogue.  This leads to some interesting findings about how much dialogue there is in the game without formatting. Note, even with all the precautions I have taken, this will be out by a little.  Only a little though.

Total: 135321 words / 773646 chars / 465 occurrences of the word "Sephiroth"

Code: [Select]
Cloud: 14331 (10.57% of total)
  Tifa: 8807 (6.50% of total)
    Barrett: 8426 (6.22% of total)
      Cid: 6066 (4.48% of total)
        Aerith: 4850 (3.58% of total)
          Cait: 4048 (2.99% of total)
            Red: 3958 (2.92% of total)
              Yuffie: 3238 (2.39% of total)
                Sephiroth: 2063 (1.52% of total)
                  Vincent: 1861 (1.37% of total)

                    Total for all chars:  57648 / 135536 (42.53% of total)

So FF7 is around 135,000 words (773000 chars) total when formatting and all the other non dialogue is removed.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-17 15:24:51 by DLPB »

luksy

  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2252 on: 2013-10-17 00:21:29 »
For reference that's about the same as The Return of the King  :-D

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2253 on: 2013-10-17 00:49:07 »
I didn't expect Cait to be that high up given he was likely shoehorned in like Vincent, but I guess that's more down to the fact Cait does actually get some story aboard the Highwind interwoven with Reeve, and at the Temple. 

The only story Vincent gets is minimal.  Although that isn't a totally bad thing because his character is supposed to be quiet and mysterious.

ps when you remove the duplicate text, ff7 is around 130,000 words.  Still very impressive.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-17 04:22:41 by DLPB »

ProtoX

  • Guest
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2254 on: 2013-10-17 04:36:41 »
The only story Vincent gets is minimal.  Although that isn't a totally bad thing because his character is supposed to be quiet and mysterious.
Thus Dirge of Cerberus was made. I didn't mind the games story with Deep Ground and more into Vincent's History, its when they decided to have Genesis from the secret ending be put in Crisis Core. In Crisis Core I didn't mind Angel telling Zack that the Buster Sword was passed down to uphold his family's honor and then passed down to Zack due to certain events. But adding Genesis to the story from Dirge of Cerberus secret ending and then adding it to Crisis Core was a bad move on Square Enix's part.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
FF7TextTool 1.0
« Reply #2255 on: 2013-10-17 13:51:18 »
OK here is my simple FF7TextTool.  What does it do?  Well, it extracts all text from touphScript format files.

It takes a few options.

1. Name filter (For example {CLOUD} will only dump those headed by Cloud).
2. Count Text (Will search the dumped files for this text and report number found).
3. Contains text (Will dump only lines that contain text.  For example ize would dump lines with "Realize")
4. Display format (Will display all formatting like {NEW}.
5. Display titles (Will display map titles)

Place all files (whether in folders or not) into a folder called "IN" in the same place as this program.

If options 1,2,3 are left blank they will be ignored.  To dump ALL text leave 1 and 3 blank.

A report will be given in the command window, and all dumped text will be placed in "output.txt"
« Last Edit: 2013-10-17 14:23:32 by DLPB »

Bosque

  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2256 on: 2013-10-17 16:23:48 »
Hey DLPB, if you have the time/patience, could you make a simple memory patch to disable exp growth that can be turned on/off, please? I know it isn't exactly a priority, but when the retranslation is released I'd like to play through the game but with Gjoerulv's mod, and I'm going to try and do a low-level run of it.

(or would the retranslation remove the terrible script on Tenko's mod?)

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2257 on: 2013-10-17 18:18:22 »
The mod won't be 100% compatible with Gj's mod until I know he is finished updating it, and then I can provide full compatibility.  As for the EXP thing... have you looked at Otyugh?  That can do a lot of stuff?  Or do you need it to be specific?

As for Tenko's mod... I don't support it at all. Apart from the crap script, it uses Aerith revival which is in clear violation of the original material regardless (and there's no easy way of changing the text, there will be a lot of mismatches).  Menu Overhaul supports it, but it looks like he has included that anyway.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-17 18:24:53 by DLPB »

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2258 on: 2013-10-18 01:59:29 »
Alexander O. Smith answers my questions on localising games.

Quote
Hi Dan,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Some answers!
> 1. Do you provide localisations in basic text, or do you have to update the files as well?

Quote
Back in the day there was a lot of direct updating of files. Once things got organized to the point where loc teams and dev teams could agree on standards, it was much easier for loc to work in excel, and have dev convert that into the code they needed for their compiler. Almost everything on the loc side is handled in excel now across the industry.

Excel is preferable to plain text because you can display original text and translation side-by-side, as well as comments/editing/etc. It's also very useful for generating voice scripts from text, and the filters can be helpful for checking a particular character's lines, etc.

> 2. Do you relocalise the non-dialogue text, such as weapon names?

Quote
Sure, though that's at the discretion of the loc team.

> 3. Following on from that, are you asked to keep the "canon" names?

Quote
This is also at the discretion of the loc team.
>
> For example, certain things in the series have become "canon" , such as "megalixir" [Last Elixir]
> and certain FF7 things, though mistakes made by Michael Baskett have become "FF7 canon", such as "Mideel" [Midhir]

Quote
At different times, different loc teams have been more zealous about fixing earlier translation problems. I think the general rule followed at Square is, if there's an embarrassing error or a "bad" translation necessitated by word length restrictions on older games, those are all free game for updating. If there's a translation that's arguably an error, but works well enough, and is loved by the fan base, those tend to stay. It's not an exact science, obviously, and there's less oversight than you might imagine (though certainly more now than there was). Another instance of 'mistakes' that won't get fixed: Ochu, which is based on a pronunciation of the D&D monster "Otyugh." That won't be fixed because WOTC has a copyright on Otyugh.

> 4. Do you get full cooperation from the original writers?  Part of the issue we had is that sometimes there is no way to work out what the writer desired.  We still can't be 100% sure that Zack is Zax, for example. The only reason we know it is Midhir is because of the internet, and good research into other mythology.

Quote
Sometimes, though that usually comes down to who is drinking with whom, or going on cigarette breaks with whom, at the time. There was very little official communication between writers and loc back in the day, so it was all back-channel stuff. Oftentimes, the original wasn't written with anything significant in mind at all, so loc ends up having free reign anyway.

In short, it's chaos, man, chaos!

Alex

I have replied to the above.  I never realised Otyugh was changed because of Copyright ;) I just assumed it was an error.

Quote
And a clarification from my side: Ochu was (likely) originally just an error. It hasn't been fixed because of copyright concerns.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-18 14:45:47 by DLPB »

luksy

  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2259 on: 2013-10-18 02:32:26 »
Being forced to use it on a daily basis, IMO using excel for translation work is possibly the worst ad-hoc standard in translation today. Csv files I can get behind as a storage format seeing as it's trivial to import them in pretty much anything, but using excel directly for editing is clunky and frustrating for anything except simple definitions like names and menus. Once you have more than two or three languages the problem is compounded.

Translation memory software is either horribly designed and convoluted (Wordfast), or horribly designed, convoluted AND ridiculously overpriced (Trados). Other editors are mainly geared towards apps and are just as bad for editing projects with actual conversations and story.

The gaming localization industry really needs some kind of usable standard.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2260 on: 2013-10-18 02:33:38 »
Yeah, excel was how we first started and it became clear that we would be there til 2050 using that method. 

Bosque

  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2261 on: 2013-10-18 02:54:38 »
The mod won't be 100% compatible with Gj's mod until I know he is finished updating it, and then I can provide full compatibility.  As for the EXP thing... have you looked at Otyugh?  That can do a lot of stuff?  Or do you need it to be specific?

Since I don't actually have FFVII installed right now on this computer I can't test Otyugh, but all I want is a simple EXP on/off switch. I'd just turn it on for forced encounters/bosses.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2262 on: 2013-10-18 14:44:50 »
Since I don't actually have FFVII installed right now on this computer I can't test Otyugh, but all I want is a simple EXP on/off switch. I'd just turn it on for forced encounters/bosses.

I'll make it later today.

Bosque

  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2263 on: 2013-10-18 17:41:09 »
I'll make it later today.

Thank you!

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2264 on: 2013-10-18 18:53:09 »
I have added it to Otyugh. See tools.  Remember to place any trainer queries there :)  It's likely I won't be adding any more requested options to it for a long while.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-18 18:58:33 by DLPB »

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2265 on: 2013-10-20 01:31:12 »
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnKl04es5qkqdGdUWHktN09WRXNheHJ4NFhrakl6Vnc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

Yup. I still missed a map.  And I still had to add more questions, but I really do think that's the last of it now.  Anything else SHOULD be from Covarr alone.

So here's the plan:

1. Questions answered, files updated. [COMPLETED]
2. Prepare installer. [IN PROGRESS]
3. Update Menu Overhaul [IN PROGRESS]
4. Make sure minigames update is working properly.
5. Prince Lex proof read of Scottish dialect. [IN PROGRESS]
6. Wait for Covarr's grammar check and update files. [IN PROGRESS]
7. Hopefully touphscript further updated (1 or 2 things I think...)
8. 1st Release of the Reunion.

Ideally, Aali's new driver (been waiting over 2 years), will also be released.  Because there are a few things that will fix.

Hopefully this will be ready for release by Dec 1st.  That's the date I am giving.

mugenginga is working on the new PSX buttons, and I will see what they are like before using them.  They are definitely going to be better than I can make or most other people.  They may be used permanently or temporarily (if FeliX makes some that are better, we will see in time.) Either way, there will be something used.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-20 19:58:35 by DLPB »

Salk

  • *
  • Posts: 609
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2266 on: 2013-10-21 04:11:28 »
Sounds real good.

My only concern is your faith in seeing another version of Aali's driver. I wouldn't count on it. What fixes in particular were you referring to?
« Last Edit: 2013-10-21 04:29:42 by Salk »

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2267 on: 2013-10-21 04:40:13 »
1. oggs for music.
2. screen flashes and colour transitions extending to bottom of screen

If he wasn't going to release the new driver, I'd code ogg into it myself.
« Last Edit: 2013-10-23 01:49:29 by DLPB »

Salk

  • *
  • Posts: 609
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2268 on: 2013-10-22 04:04:54 »
Yeah, re: screen flashes (2) it does bother me a lot as well.

Nice to know that you could still take matters in your hand when it comes to .ogg files though.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2269 on: 2013-10-23 01:48:25 »
Funny thing to note too.  Each character has a "bad" or joke weapon.  The weapon does not have any slots.


Aerith: Umbrella
Barrett: Rocket Punch (a giant fist)
Cait: Triton Trumpet (Triton Shell Trumpet)
Cloud: Nail Bat
Cid: Mop
Red: Hairpin (ordinary hairpin)
Tifa: Work Glove
Vincent: BB Gun (lit. Silver ball gun)
Yuffie: Bouncy Ball (in japan a Super Ball)


« Last Edit: 2013-10-23 02:44:00 by DLPB »

luksy

  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2270 on: 2013-10-23 02:55:41 »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Ball

It's one of those things where the trademarked name stuck as the general term in Japan, like hoover in the uk.

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2271 on: 2013-10-23 03:35:45 »
Reminds me... my character for replacement of Cait uses orbs...  the best weapon will be the Palantir, but his worst will be a marble haha.

In other news, I am having to give Covarr updated files for the second time.  I did a full check with Word... and well, despite going through the whole thing 5 times manually (including a play through) there were still around 70 mistakes found with it.  The sheer scale of this project is frightening even me.

Such gems included:

Quote
“This is what what it
looked like five years ago.”

and

Quote
“Don't worry, i'm okay.”
« Last Edit: 2013-10-23 04:42:37 by DLPB »

luksy

  • *
  • Posts: 375
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2272 on: 2013-10-23 05:19:18 »
I had to read the first one three times before I saw what what was wrong  :|

If your going with orbs his best should be the Death Star  :-D

DLPB_

  • Banned
  • *
  • Posts: 11006
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2273 on: 2013-10-23 14:35:00 »
When I cut and paste to edit a passage I sometimes dupe the word... and judging by your trouble to see it, I'd say the human brain is very crap at noticing duplicate words.

Lex Tertia

  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #2274 on: 2013-10-23 16:50:24 »
When I cut and paste to edit a passage I sometimes dupe the word... and judging by your trouble to see it, I'd say the human brain is very crap at noticing duplicate words.

Damn you autocorrect!!