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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Luis Aviles on 2009-07-11 16:41:11

Title: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Luis Aviles on 2009-07-11 16:41:11
Mirroring the success of Final Fantasy VII International overseas, the release of FFVII to the Playstation Network at the beginning of June has seen tremendous download growth in two weeks since its launch. The game has been downloaded over 100,000 times, making it the fastest-selling PS1 game on the Playstation Network thus far. The following press release outlines some of the other PS1 games Sony's planning to release over the rest of the year, including Wild Arms 2, Mobile Light Force and Spec Ops: Stealth Patrol, that will round out what will supposedly be dozens of releases before 2010. See below for the full press release.

http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=0F2D22B9-1A64-6A71-CE8CFFE150009B38 (http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=0F2D22B9-1A64-6A71-CE8CFFE150009B38)

Now this doesnt include the number of people who download the game through torrent and rapidshare. I guess people still havent forgotten this game. Perhaps theres no need for a remake.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-11 18:23:29
And I think that was just in North America; throw in Europe, Japan and the rest of the world and the sales will probably be over 200 000.  :wink:

It's just a pity that it can't be legally downloaded for the PC AFAIK. :cry:

Apart from stopping greedy sellers trying to flog it for £100, it might reduce the number of questions we can get from people who can't make their Ultima edition work...

I guess people still havent forgotten this game. Perhaps theres no need for a remake.

Oh, I don't think this game will be forgotten for a long time  :wink: The popularity of these forums (FF7 isn't an easy game to mod) is evidence of that. I don't think there's any need for a remake either; I wonder if Square will feel the same way  :?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Sefurosu on 2009-07-15 06:43:53
I still want to have a remake, even though I still play the original on my PC, PSP, and PS1...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-07-15 07:15:44
I'm with sefurosu, the original is great but a remake would make me sh*t myself...in a good way(?)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-07-16 00:48:12
I want a remake too, but I'm scared of what they'll do to it.

I'd want it to remain exactly the same with just updated graphics, but I don't think that's ever gonna happen. It's too likely they'll try to work in tidbits of what they've introduced in the other compilation titles for the sake of continuity and that would just p*ss me off. Maybe I wouldn't mind if they expanded the dialogue or something, kinda beefed it out a bit and made it better - as long is it remains true to the original game. I don't want loads of extra crap that doesn't need to be there. I also don't know how I'd feel about a completely different battle system, I mean lets face it, how can it be kept the same?

In short, maybe I'm too picky. I just don't want them to screw it up!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Gutts on 2009-07-16 00:54:56
words

You know, this is exactly the kind of thinking that Square is afraid of. They want to remake but they are afraid of "disappointing" any fans, thus they don't do it. I think I even read this on an IGN interview with some of the FF7 top brass. If people really wanted to get this remake they should should just shut up and say BRING IT Square.

Anyway, I know that I sure as heck won't be disappointed! No matter what they do with it, as long as I GET it, I don't care.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-16 01:46:18
>Square
>Afraid of disappointing any fans

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1941/kagamilaugh.jpg)

Well, it's pretty good that you don't care what they do with this remake everyone is absolutely certain they're going to make (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking), because everything Square have done since they became $quare €nix (especially with the Compilation of FF7) suggests that most of the changes won't be for the better in the eyes of most fans. Reactions to Square's more recent games have generally been negative.

In the unlikely event (they're a business, after all, and they care about the bottom line more than anything else) that the top brass actually are worried about fans instead of wanting to cash in on the FF7 name, that's a very good thing. Perhaps they're questioning their belief (and, to be fair, a lot of companies do this with their biggest franchises when they're low on ideas) that they can defecate in a disc case, stick a FF7 logo on it and expect it to sell millions. I'd much rather see no remake than a bad one. It'll save me money, as well as my memories of the game (since I'm the kind of idiot that still buys FF shovelware just because it's Final Fantasy - just the kind of person they rely on, in fact).

Anyway, why do we need a remake? Srsly, the only things that FF7 needs are a graphical update, some translation and bug fixes and a difficulty tweak, and we've done or are doing all of that. What the people who really want a remake should actually do is think about whether FF7 really needs one.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-07-16 01:49:19
words

You know, this is exactly the kind of thinking that Square is afraid of. They want to remake but they are afraid of "disappointing" any fans, thus they don't do it. I think I even read this on an IGN interview with some of the FF7 top brass. If people really wanted to get this remake they should should just shut up and say BRING IT Square.

Anyway, I know that I sure as heck won't be disappointed! No matter what they do with it, as long as I GET it, I don't care.

I see your point, but I'd rather they didn't remake it if they were going to change too much of the storyline. I won't be happy with just "anything" - maybe that makes me a fussy person but I don't really care ^_^

I think I read something similar - and to be honest, I'm GLAD that's the way they're thinking. This way, if they DO decide to do a remake, they'll take care.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Gutts on 2009-07-16 02:12:47
I see you guys point too, maybe its just that I'm so desperate to play FF7 again that I'll take anything lol! I was telling my friend the other day that if they DO remake it, I already know what it'll be like. Crisis Core!  :-D (Minus the battle system of course). I mean think about it. They already got a good field engine down, nearly most of the areas in FF7 were done in CC, like the church, Nibelheim, Midgar, Wutai etc etc.

Guess there's nothing to do but wait :\
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Covarr on 2009-07-16 03:13:47
If they were to remake it, I suspect they'd give it a fresh translation or a new script, but not change the story too much. Any changes they make would be to fix obvious problems (touph), fix continuity (Cura, Curaga), or improve flow. It'd be faster, cheaper, easier, and better than completely rewriting it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: obesebear on 2009-07-16 05:21:33
I say we don't even need a remake.

Squeenix could:
A) Update the models  (LGPTools + Kimera + Biturn + PCreator + skilled modelers)
B) Update the battle scenes (Biturn + skilled modelers)
C) Update the field background (Palmer + Photoshop)
D) Update the music (FF7Music + mp3s)
E) Update the graphics (OpenGL driver)
F) Update the script (Loveless)
G) Update the AI (Wallmarket + ProudClod)
H) Update the FMVs (OpenGL driver + Advent CHildren scenes + people with the time to animate higher poly models)

You get the idea.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-16 05:22:43
To the last one, if someone remade all the scenes like that, I would worship them.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-07-16 05:35:09
dont forget better camera angles and voice overs  :-D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: InuRa on 2009-07-21 04:28:49
I say we don't even need a remake.

Squeenix could:
A) Update the models  (LGPTools + Kimera + Biturn + PCreator + skilled modelers)
B) Update the battle scenes (Biturn + skilled modelers)
C) Update the field background (Palmer + Photoshop)
D) Update the music (FF7Music + mp3s)
E) Update the graphics (OpenGL driver)
F) Update the script (Loveless)
G) Update the AI (Wallmarket + ProudClod)
H) Update the FMVs (OpenGL driver + Advent CHildren scenes + people with the time to animate higher poly models)

You get the idea.

Yeah, i guess this is the general desire towards the game. If SE just updates the graphics everything is gonna be fine and people will be happy.
Honestly i think the best aproach would be the release FF7 on STEAM (since they already have 'The Last Remnant' there) then make small updates with improvements to the graphics every week\month, that way they can check the feedback each time one of those is released and undo the changes if the critics are very negative. When the whole thing was updated all they had to do was pimp it up a little more and port it to the PS3 (and maybe Xbox360) and sell some more units.
Ok, maybe some huge changes to the Gold Saucer amusement park would be something good idea so they can double or triple the number of minigames and improve the duration of the game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Covarr on 2009-07-25 17:54:13
My wifi is crappy and my PS3 keeps disconnecting after approx 2%. Is it possible to download this from my PC and then transfer it to my PS3?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: hotdog963al on 2009-07-29 12:04:10
dont forget better camera angles and voice overs  :-D

No voice overs please :|
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-29 17:57:37
dont forget better camera angles and voice overs  :-D

No voice overs please :|

Yeah, English voiceovers are often pretty bad. If it must have them, I hope that they'll be an optional, or that there will be a choice of languages so that we can listen to the Japanese.

A lot of people think that voiceovers make a game better. They don't.

Good voiceovers make a game better. Mediocre voiceovers make them slightly worse and bad voiceovers can ruin everything. Unfortunately, there are a lot more bad English voiceovers in games than good ones. See the MGS and Legacy of Kain series for some awesome exceptions  :-D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-07-29 18:55:37
What do you think of the english voices for ff7 AC?

I swear everyone hates on english voice overs for no reason, wheatheri ts movies, anime, or games, its all the same.

i think the english voices sound fitting for their characters, and i prefer them as i can understand what they are saying as well as the inflection they give.

i can never tell what inflexion is implied when a japanese speaker has dialogue

cant use spell check so bear with any errors...my computer seems to have this issue with opening second windows....it just doesnt do it for some reason
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: jin_kazama on 2009-07-29 19:03:25
from what i've seen of some remakes, they tend to be worse than the original.

though i would appreciate it and play it, no matter what.

but i think there's not a great margin for error, once ff7 is a great game. only thing that could be made better would be the graphics and the voice overs.

i played DQVIII and square knows how to get voice overs done. it's remarkable. as for the graphics, well... we're always improving. :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-07-29 19:05:13
well....wait, how can a remake be worse than the original?

maybe a loss of its charm?

it couldnt be changes or story because those should be the same...

meh, i dunno.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Covarr on 2009-07-29 19:10:07
FF7AC was mostly good voicewise, but they wrecked Cait Sith by giving him an idiotic accent, and Rachael Leigh Cook brought down the whole movie with her unnatural and stilted performance.

On the other hand, Quinton Flynn was spectacular, the new child actors in AC:Complete were good, and everybody else was competent.

It's true that there are a ton of terrible English dubs of things. People often see the terrible ones, and then project their bad feelings about them to ALL dubs. Like, just because Sailor Moon's dub was genuinely awful, they ignore the really good ones like Cowboy Bebop, or the pretty good ones like Dragon Ball Z (which had more problems with English script rather than acting).

Kudistos Megistos, I hope you're not including MGS1 when you say the MGS series. About half of the voice acting in that game was phenomenal, but a lot of it (namely Naomi and Mei Ling with their terrible fake accents) was plain atrocious.

Of course, the reason things get bad dubs is because they don't have Andrea Romano acting as casting director.

For an example of a remake being worse than the original, look no further than FFIV DS. Maybe it's the fact that they really slowed down the game, maybe it's that the 3D graphics actually look WORSE than the original 2D graphics, or maybe it's the horribly acted cutscenes, but there's virtually nothing better about it than the original.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-29 19:39:10
What do you think of the english voices for ff7 AC?

I swear everyone hates on english voice overs for no reason, wheatheri ts movies, anime, or games, its all the same.

i think the english voices sound fitting for their characters, and i prefer them as i can understand what they are saying as well as the inflection they give.

i can never tell what inflexion is implied when a japanese speaker has dialogue

The English wasn't terrible but I don't think it was good. This is with the exception of Cait Sith's voice, which was on a par with Dick Van Dyke's "cockney" accent in Mary Poppins. Urgh...  :|

What I've noticed about English voiceovers of Japanese works is that most of them aren't really really bad, as in Bible Black bad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAb3soNjrA4), but they seem a lot more amateur and the dialogue often sounds forced and lacking in emotion, as if the actors are reading the dialogue for the first time. Japanese voice acting usually sounds a lot more lively and more natural; even when the English acting is OK, it still tends not to be as good.

What I've always inferred (I'm not sure whether this is right, but the wikipedia article on Seiyuu implies this) is that voice acting is less respected and high profile in the West than in Japan (we certainly don't have many voice actors who are household names or objects of fanboy love like some Seiyuu). If so, then voice acting for video games and such may well be the kind of work you do when you when you need a job and will take anything, not something that you take seriously and something that more talented actors will pass up in favour of live action roles. I'm sure that if Halkun reads this he will confirm or deny it  :-P

Kudistos Megistos, I hope you're not including MGS1 when you say the MGS series. About half of the voice acting in that game was phenomenal, but a lot of it (namely Naomi and Mei Ling with their terrible fake accents) was plain atrocious.

I most certainly was! Let's just say that the many brilliant actors make for a very few bad ones.  :-D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-07-29 19:42:30
but they wrecked Cait Sith by giving him an idiotic accent,

There are far worse accents out there than Scottish I assure you and yes, I do take a little offence to having my accent called idiotic.

Remember the characters are from all over the planet, giving them different accents adds a little variety to the mix

I do agree about Rachael Leigh Cook though, yet strangely in Kingdom Hearts she wasn't as bad.

I did laugh at David Boreanaz as Squall in the First Kingdom Hearts, holy shit did he sounds bored and un-interested, no wonder they replaced him with someone who has a shitload of VO work on his resume for the second game.

Steve Burton always struck me as an odd choice for cloud, mostly because he speaks in a soft voice for him, making Cloud seem a bit girly at times.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-29 19:44:48
but they wrecked Cait Sith by giving him an idiotic accent,

There are far worse accents out there than Scottish I assure you and yes, I do take a little offence to having my accent called idiotic.

Er, I don't think he was calling Scottish accents idiotic; he was calling Cait Sith's ridiculously bad attempt at a Scottish accent idiotic.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-07-29 19:51:04
It was actually pretty close to a northern accent, a wee bit over excited sounding, but close none the less.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-29 19:54:57
lol really?

Was it a deliberate attempt at that accent or was it an attempt at a Glasgow or Edinburgh accent that went wrong and coincidentally sounded like a real accent :-D

Actually, the mythical creature Cait Sith is supposed to be from the Highlands, so maybe a northern Scottish accent is more appropriate.

Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-07-29 20:04:20
Cait's accent is more of an Highlands and Islands accent, I was a on a course a while back with a guy from up in the northern Islands and his accent sounds like the one Cait has.

At least they gave him some of he dialect too, wouldn't sound right saying "Girl, shut your mouth" in the accent, but saying "lassie, shut yer gob" sounds so much better.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-29 20:07:07
I'll have to listen to Cait Sith's accent again  :roll:

If he sounds like someone from the Shetlands, for example, I can see why people would think he doesn't sound Scottish
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-07-29 20:08:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHDPrEkkCnE&feature=related
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-07-29 20:10:41
....

do you.....do you just happen to carry that url address around?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-07-29 20:13:21
No, I went to look for a clip to remind myself of his accent.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-29 20:20:11
....

do you.....do you just happen to carry that url address around?

Hey, I always keep a list of urls to random youtube videos. You never know when they're going to come up in conversation; then who's the one who's prepared?  :-P

And I haven't heard an accent like the one in that video before (but I'm sure DragonNinja knows more about the less well-known Scottish accents than I do  :roll:). Still sounds a bit non-Scottish at times, but maybe not.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: hotdog963al on 2009-07-29 22:48:25
Has anyone seen the Monkey Island special edition?
Now that's what I call a perfect re-make. :)

If only we could get something this faithful with FF7...
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-07-29 23:49:35
Has anyone seen the Monkey Island special edition?
Now that's what I call a perfect re-make. :)

Except for some bad use of Comic Sans.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-07-30 01:03:30
I'm from Glasgow and have family from all over Scotland (and England. Some in Canada and Australia too... it's a big family).

        Cait Sith does sound kind-of Northern Scottish, but it's off in some places. Scottish accents can be confusing to someone that's on the outside. The accent and dialect used depends completely on where you stay, and varies from region to region (sometimes these regions can be really small). For example, Glaswegians (me and other people from Glasgow) have a Glaswegian accent. It sounds a bit rougher than most other Scottish accents (we swear a lot more when we talk also). Edinburgh is a 40 minute train journey away, and sometimes Glaswegian's can experience some hostility when they go there. The common nickname for Glaswegian's around Scotland is "Ouija's" (as in, Oujia Board) because of the "Wegia" part of "Glaswegian". You sometimes find it being used in an offensive way (especially in Edinburgh, while there are lovely people there, a good few in my experience seem to think that someone from Glasgow is the shit on their shoe. This attitude is encountered a lot).

My point is, the Scottish accent is very varied. The Motherwell accent (though not very defined) is very different from the Glasgow accent, which is very different from Edinburgh, very different from Aberdeen, very different from Inverness etc etc. The Scottish Islands (i.e. Arran, Bute, Cumbrae, Stornoway, Orkney, Shetland etc) all have their own accents too. Hell, literally a 20 minute walk from my flat and you're in Paisley - they have a different accent.

Example:-

Written - (My father's having a party on saturday night)
Spoken (Paisley) - (Ma fai-thurs huv'n uh pair-eh oan sai-urday nigh')
Spoken (Glasgow (slang)) - (Ma da's huv'n a par-eh oan sa-ur-day night)

The point is, when people try to sound Scottish on the media and they're supposed to be from a specific region (See Desmond from Lost and a character from Alias that was in one episode. My god that was awful, tbh, Desmond's accent is quite well done, however I remember in this particular Alias episode the brother and sister were supposed to be from Glasgow. The guy had an IRISH accent and ties to the IRA. How the hell is that Glasgow!? Grrr. The girl sounded like she was from Aberdeen.)

Sorry about the massive speil, I just need to vent my frustration about this. They always get it wrong. In the case of Cait Sith, I don't really know. It's definitely Scottish, but it doesn't sound like any region i've ever been to. And yes, I've been to the highlands.



Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-30 01:33:08
Sorry about the massive speil, I just need to vent my frustration about this. They always get it wrong. In the case of Cait Sith, I don't really know. It's definitely Scottish, but it doesn't sound like any region i've ever been to. And yes, I've been to the highlands.

Perhaps what's going on here is what often happens when Americans try an English accent; they hear people from different regions and end up with an accent that is a kind of mish-mash of cockney, scouse, Yorkshire and god knows what else. Said mish-mash is definitely English and it may even resemble features of one region more than others, but it still doesn't sound like any specific English accent. (I'm sure one of our novomundane cousins will pipe up and tell us that English people often do this when putting on an American accent  :-D)

Or maybe that isn't it. I did also think that he often sounded quite English at the end of sentences. Not at the end of all of them, but at the end of a few. Dunno whether I'm right about this.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Opine on 2009-07-30 19:38:53
I thought Steve Burton did a good job for Cloud. I always kinda pictured Cloud as having a somewhat immature (soft/youngish) sounding voice when I played it. Probably due to all his shoulder shrugging. I think it would have been weird if Cloud had a rough or deep voice.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Covarr on 2009-07-30 20:09:54
but they wrecked Cait Sith by giving him an idiotic accent,

There are far worse accents out there than Scottish I assure you and yes, I do take a little offence to having my accent called idiotic.

Er, I don't think he was calling Scottish accents idiotic; he was calling Cait Sith's ridiculously bad attempt at a Scottish accent idiotic.
Actually, I was mostly trying to say that the fact that he had it was idiotic. It seemed completely random and arbitrary, especially since Reeve, who controls (and presumably voices) Cait Sith, sounds nothing like that.

Of course, if you want to see a lousy attempt at a Scottish accent, look no further than the Demoman in TF2.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-30 23:59:48
Cait Sith is named after a mythical creature from Scottish mythology, so it's not exactly a random choice of accent. Oh, and there might be a reason why Cait Sith doesn't sound like Reeve; he was originally meant to be a spy, so he would have been programmed to have a voice that Cloud and his friends wouldn't have recognised. Presumably Reeve couldn't be bothered to change it after he was found out  :-D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-07-31 01:03:37
Of course, if you want to see a lousy attempt at a Scottish accent, look no further than the Demoman in TF2.

The demoman is meant to be cheesy to the point of parody though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-31 01:14:37
What about Rowdy Roddy Piper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ot46WmL9hY)?  :-D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-07-31 09:24:33
Well, he wasn't Scottish at all.

From the wiki page

Quote
Roderick George Toombs (born April 17, 1954) better known by his ring name "Rowdy" Roddy Piper, is a semi-retired Canadian professional wrestler and film actor currently signed to World Wrestling Entertainment. Despite having no actual connection to Scotland.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-07-31 12:24:38
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Cait_Sith

and on dialects:

http://www.blueshinra.com/reeve/encore.shtml
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-31 15:39:41
Well, he wasn't Scottish at all.

I think that's obvious to anyone who listens to him  :-D

http://www.blueshinra.com/reeve/encore.shtml

Wait, they think he was meant to sound Irish?  :-o
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-07-31 15:52:38
I am asking my japanese buddies their opinion on it and will get back to you :P

he speaks with kansai dialect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai_dialect

in jap version....  but the myth Cat Sith is known as irish/scottish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Sith

When I get to translating Cait I may use Irish dialect as the alternatative.  We will see
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-31 16:02:47
Seeing as he seems to be more prominent in Scottish mythology than Irish (at least according to that article) and it's said to haunt the Highlands, I think it would be best for him to have a Scottish dialect instead of an Irish one.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-07-31 16:29:27
 :lol:  possibly but we had one of those on final fantasy 9

But yeah

 :-D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-08-01 00:39:34
Quote from: Mystery Moogle
but for Cait, an Irish accent was given to him (the Japanese Cait speaks in a Kansai dialect). Although this was probably done due to the origins of Cait's name, seeing as how Cait didn't sport an Irish accent in the original game, this particular choice of dialect is especially bizarre.

Supreme arse-vomit.

This is what annoys me. It's obviously some moron thats written that up. His accent is DEFINITELY NOT Irish, nor is it supposed to be Irish.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-01 03:02:04
Quote from: Mystery Moogle
but for Cait, an Irish accent was given to him (the Japanese Cait speaks in a Kansai dialect). Although this was probably done due to the origins of Cait's name, seeing as how Cait didn't sport an Irish accent in the original game, this particular choice of dialect is especially bizarre.

Supreme arse-vomit.

This is what annoys me. It's obviously some moron thats written that up. His accent is DEFINITELY NOT Irish, nor is it supposed to be Irish.

I thought that as well. I'm constantly surprised at how many people can't tell the difference between Irish and Scottish accents. Well, Northern Irish accents can be easily mistaken for one of those two, but if you're a native speaker of English you have to be pretty ignorant to get southern Irish accents mixed up with Scottish ones. It's only slightly less moronic than not being able to tell the difference between English and Australian accents (apparently some people can't).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-01 03:11:50
http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Cait_Sith

I do need to know if this is scottish mythology only, because I cannot find any sources to say it is purely scottish.  Accent wise, kansai is just another dialect is it not?  And any other dialect would be good enough for Cait in FF7, all it has to do is to show a difference between reeve and cait, though come to think of it, seeing him speak like an irish person etc might look weird.

Will have to mull it over.  He definately needs a new dialect in the game though
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-08-01 03:42:41
       All the sources I've read say it's a Scottish/Irish myth - but the creature is said to come from the Highlands. The Highlands are in Scotland, so the creature would have a Scottish accent. It doesn't matter where the myth originates from - the creature in the myth still comes from the Scottish highlands.

Therefore, I wouldn't give him an Irish accent. If you must, give him a Scottish one, but please have a Scottish person look over it before it's completed so it isn't badly done.

Of course, you could just give him a made up accent. The Condie Petie mountain folk in FF9 are supposed to be Scottish and their accents aren't done too badly (written-wise) for some northern parts of Scotland.

Another thing to note is that this may be being referred to as "Scottish/Irish" mythology because of the confusion in the difference between the Scottish and Irish. It's humungous, but on the outside it wouldn't look like that if I'm being fair. I can tell the difference between someone from New Zealand and someone from Australia, and the difference between someone from the USA and someone From Canada, but some people might have trouble with that. I made the effort to learn so that I wouldn't offend anyone. From personal experience, one of the most annoying things is when people abroad (and usually only outside of Europe) say "Oh!, You're English!". They never say British. Or Scottish. Both of which are correct - English isn't. Say you live in the US and you're from California. It's like someone saying to you, "Oh! You're from Texas!" You'd be like... errr... no I'm not. The United Kingdom is actually "Great Britain" and "Northern Ireland" Great Britain being Scotland, England and Wales. They're kind of like states, except not. They used to be countries in their own right, until England... well, no need for a history lesson when you have Wikipedia.

Well, Northern Irish accents can be easily mistaken for one of those two, but if you're a native speaker of English you have to be pretty ignorant to get southern Irish accents mixed up with Scottish ones. It's only slightly less moronic than not being able to tell the difference between English and Australian accents (apparently some people can't).

Northern Irish accents sometimes get mixed up with ours because they're harsher than proper Irish accents. (For those that don't know (most likely only those not in Europe) Ireland is about 80% of the land it's on, Northern Ireland is the rest of it to the north. Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland is.) The southern Irish accents and much softer. Frankly, both are very sexual, so I'm not complaining.

English and Australian accents... I can't imagine getting those mixed up. However, I've always thought of the Australian accent as being a kind of strange mix of English and American. It sounds halfway between the two in my head. Again, I would say the New Zealand accent is slightly harsher. 
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-01 03:46:03
I agree :)  Although I wouldnt want to touch dialects and would of course need someone else to modify the literal translation.

Thats a while away anyway.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: titeguy3 on 2009-08-01 04:30:08
I'm happy I've only ever watched the Japanese version of AC.

日本語万歳! :-D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-08-01 04:32:14
I'm happy I've only ever watched the Japanese version of AC.

日本語万歳! :-D

I can't watch the English dub. I always watch it with English subs.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: titeguy3 on 2009-08-01 04:42:39
Old post but I just read it and REALLY have to comment on it.

>Square
>Afraid of disappointing any fans

(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1941/kagamilaugh.jpg)

Well, it's pretty good that you don't care what they do with this remake everyone is absolutely certain they're going to make (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking), because everything Square have done since they became $quare €nix (especially with the Compilation of FF7) suggests that most of the changes won't be for the better in the eyes of most fans. Reactions to Square's more recent games have generally been negative.

In the unlikely event (they're a business, after all, and they care about the bottom line more than anything else) that the top brass actually are worried about fans instead of wanting to cash in on the FF7 name, that's a very good thing. Perhaps they're questioning their belief (and, to be fair, a lot of companies do this with their biggest franchises when they're low on ideas) that they can defecate in a disc case, stick a FF7 logo on it and expect it to sell millions. I'd much rather see no remake than a bad one. It'll save me money, as well as my memories of the game (since I'm the kind of idiot that still buys FF shovelware just because it's Final Fantasy - just the kind of person they rely on, in fact).

Anyway, why do we need a remake? Srsly, the only things that FF7 needs are a graphical update, some translation and bug fixes and a difficulty tweak, and we've done or are doing all of that. What the people who really want a remake should actually do is think about whether FF7 really needs one.

First off Kudistos, I nominate you for an "Awesomest Post Ever" award.

Second off.. I was thinking about this the other day.... the slums are a place where there's no sunlight, only artificial light due to the fact that theres a giant metal plate intermingling with a haze of smoke blocking away the outside world. Imagine living there. Can you? It's strange, foreign, and really makes you feel helpless and melancholy. I'd like a remake of FF7 to make you feel those things. Really immerse you in the world of FFVII. That's not something the original game could do due to technological limitations. Hell, it's not something we could do either without making a new game ourselves from scratch (which would make Halkun and the omniscient Square-Enix lawyers very upset), but a remake of FF7 with modern graphics/modern technology could really make you feel what it's like to be there.

Of course, it IS wishful thinking, but it calms the soul to discuss.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-01 17:45:29
First off Kudistos, I nominate you for an "Awesomest Post Ever" award.

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3922/hownice.png)

Second off.. I was thinking about this the other day.... the slums are a place where there's no sunlight, only artificial light due to the fact that theres a giant metal plate intermingling with a haze of smoke blocking away the outside world. Imagine living there. Can you? It's strange, foreign, and really makes you feel helpless and melancholy. I'd like a remake of FF7 to make you feel those things. Really immerse you in the world of FFVII. That's not something the original game could do due to technological limitations. Hell, it's not something we could do either without making a new game ourselves from scratch (which would make Halkun and the omniscient Square-Enix lawyers very upset), but a remake of FF7 with modern graphics/modern technology could really make you feel what it's like to be there.

Of course, it IS wishful thinking, but it calms the soul to discuss.

I think that Square did an admirable job of capturing the atmosphere of Midgar in the original, given the tools they had; the wonderful soundtrack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlnk5ThilSo) more than makes up for the poor graphics most of the time. Then again, how brilliant would the game be if the songs were all fully orchestrated (with Uematsu composing, of course), and they were in addition to the graphics rather than compensating for them? :-D I'd be much happier if Square announced that the FF7 soundtrack was to be fully orchestrated by Nobuo Uematsu than if they announced a remake.

And I think it might be more a case of the lawyers seeing a chance to make more money for themselves or to justify their jobs by making silly claims (I'm not sure how they're paid), than a case of them getting upset  :roll:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-01 17:48:49
I'm happy I've only ever watched the Japanese version of AC.

日本語万歳! :-D

I can't watch the English dub. I always watch it with English subs.

me neither....its just so damn poor.  Esp sephiroth and I agree on VII remake mostly.  The things I would like to see are:

Updated graphics
Same story, NO modifications to core story
Translation fix
Things they did not add, sorting out, such as 1:35 soldier collectables which were abandoned really...
More minigames and squares at gold saucer (there is room there in that main hall)
Choice of music, including orchestral pieces and pieces from Black mages


Unfortunately, what we would end up getting is a bloated graphic fest where we have sephiroth and cloud engaged in 20 minute matrix battles where you sit there wondering where it all went wrong (like I did with Twin Snakes remake of MGS1).

If they don't intend to remake it BETTER by making sure they don't ruin it by changing things that aren't broken, they should not remake it at all....

Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: obesebear on 2009-08-01 18:21:46

Unfortunately, what we would end up getting is a bloated graphic fest where we have sephiroth and cloud engaged in 20 minute matrix battles where you sit there wondering where it all went wrong (like I did with Twin Snakes remake of MGS1).

If they don't intend to remake it BETTER by making sure they don't ruin it by changing things that aren't broken, they should not remake it at all....


Agreed fully.  Though I found Crisis Core to be a great game, Dirge of Cerberus was terrible as a story.  I wouldn't mind them touching up the original's story to ..slightly.. barely.. almost unnoticeably.. include Genesis.

But as you said, it would most likely be a "bloated graphic fest" like every other game to come out this generation
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-01 18:44:36
Though I found Crisis Core to be a great game, Dirge of Cerberus was terrible as a story.  I wouldn't mind them touching up the original's story to ..slightly.. barely.. almost unnoticeably.. include Genesis.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

Unless they include Genesis to have him dying in a fire, they should pretend he never existed; the FF7 universe would be better off without him. In fact, for this reason I think that CC would have been better if it had been a stand-alone game without any references to FF7. It's a great game, I agree, and one of the few things that Squeenix have done right, but it messes up the FF7 storyline.

I've always felt that Genesis and Hollander demean Sephiroth and Hojo somewhat; the original villains suddenly become a lot less special now that we see that there's another apocalypse-causing villain and another mad scientist of similar skill. And this is before we talk about Genesis going around in the reactor and completely undermining Sephiroth; suddenly, Sephiroth seems like nothing more than a pawn in Genesis' great plan, and Genesis becomes the real bad guy of the FF7 series.

Personally, I think that the game would have been a lot better off if Genesis had been killed for good in Modeoheim and had no further part in the story; that way there would be no real deviance from the main FF7 story and it would also have shown that Sephiroth was a step up. It would be as if the game were saying "OK, you've dealt with Genesis; now it's time for the real crisis". Not only that, but it would fit in well with the FF tradition of having a small-time bad guy early on in the game who gets replaced by someone much more dangerous later on (like Gestahl and Kefka, Shinra and Sephiroth, Edea/Galbadia and Ultimecia or Brahne and Kuja).

But yeah, it will be a bloated graphics fest full of androgynous men (the girlishness of Cloud and Sephiroth in the compilation has given the oldskool FF fanboys no end of trolling material).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-08-01 18:54:57
A graphics update would be amazing. But yeah, If they "Dirge of Cerberus"d it with cutscenes for walking down a hallway (or cutscene, walk down a hallway, cutscene...) i wouldn't be to happy. though with the progress we're making we might not need one haha

With Seifer getting a good translation and dialog fixes.
Timu, Hoomer, and APZ with models
APZ and Millenia with textures.
FF7Music (although needs a good rewrite/replacement)
All the people who made the tools (sorry gents don't know all of ya haha)
and last (but certainly not least) Aali with his Graphics Driver, new LGP tools, and Palmer.

Who needs a remake at this point? All we need is something to work on camera controls, and make the backgrounds 3D (i drool at the thought) and we'd be good as gold! :D

EDIT: Oh i forgot! Also someone to painstakingly remake every cutscene. though i think i am dreaming there haha
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: obesebear on 2009-08-01 18:57:55
I've always felt that Genesis and Hollander demean Sephiroth and Hojo somewhat; the original villains suddenly become a lot less special now that we see that there's another apocalypse-causing villain and another mad scientist of similar skill. And this is before we talk about Genesis going around in the reactor and completely undermining Sephiroth; suddenly, Sephiroth seems like nothing more than a pawn in Genesis' great plan, and Genesis becomes the real bad guy of the FF7 series.

Personally, I think that the game would have been a lot better off if Genesis had been killed for good in Modeoheim and had no further part in the story; that way there would be no real deviance from the main FF7 story and it would also have shown that Sephiroth was a step up. It would be as if the game were saying "OK, you've dealt with Genesis; now it's time for the real crisis". Not only that, but it would fit in well with the FF tradition of having a small-time bad guy early on in the game who gets replaced by someone much more dangerous later on (like Gestahl and Kefka, Shinra and Sephiroth, Edea/Galbadia and Ultimecia or Brahne and Kuja).


Actually, I agree. I would have liked it more had Genesis been a big deal and you kill him just before the events at Nibelheim.   But that wouldn't have left an opening for a Dirge of Cerberus sequel where
Spoiler: show



Genesis is the ultimate good guy!!!! and has to defeat Sephiroth once and for all!!!!!!!



which of course I will also play... because I can't help myself  :-(
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-01 19:06:14
a Dirge of Cerberus sequel where
Spoiler: show



Genesis is the ultimate good guy!!!! and has to defeat Sephiroth once and for all!!!!!!!



which of course I will also play... because I can't help myself  :-(

Bloody hell, don't give Squeenix ideas!  :-D

They aren't very good at sequels (we knew this already; FFX-2), so imagine what a sequel to a bad spin-off would be like? :-o

It would be the worst game evar; worse than Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde for the NES (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M_4Yqk65f8), even worse than Dark Castle for the Megadrive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPsf-81N8YQ).  :cry:

And we'd still buy it  :roll:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-01 21:18:38
I mentioned this to someone else....how it always irritates me when they think more graphics and more spectacular fight scenes are for the better.  Graphics should never be a substitute for plot or intelligent design.

When you see something which is realistic given the physics of the world, like say sephiroth struggling with tifa before slashing her, that has much more dramatic effect than a 5 minute battle and then a slash.

Sometimes , more is not better and I fear as I said, that this is what a remake would end up being....  which is a pity.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: titeguy3 on 2009-08-01 22:00:44
Exactly Seifer. KH and KH2 were such stupidly popular successes because they were beautiful *while* you played. I remember at that scene towards the end of KH2 when you team up with all the FF characters to fight off legions of heartless. I was literally *mesmerized* watching Cloud hack and slash 20 heartless per second. I didn't even do anything. I just watched him do all the work in a far cooler manner than Sora could ever perform.

I also fought Sephiroth 5 times in each game (even after beating him) just because his fighting style was so magnificently done in either game and loyal to his original movelist. (although I admit fighting a Lance Bass voiced Sephiroth kind of pissed me off, Sephi is the ultimate villain of all time, not the gay member of NSync)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-08-01 22:36:04
lance was the one who voiced him in kh1 right?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: titeguy3 on 2009-08-01 23:08:10
Yeah, In KH2 he had his proper AC voice actor.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Covarr on 2009-08-02 00:24:16
Graphics should never be a substitute for plot or intelligent design.
Unfortunately, a lot of people take this to mean that a game SHOULDN'T have good graphics. There's no reason why a game can't have both, like Metal Gear Solid 4.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-02 00:53:12
MGS4.....I won't even get started on that game....I will just say that I would use that as an absolute example of how graphics got in the way.  Cut scenes lasting over 40 minutes is not intelligent game design and the plot was god awful imho.

But you are right, a game can have both if it is done properly.  But there should never be a subsititute.  The first thing that made me wary about a remake was Advent Children.  It is a decent movie overall but there is WAY too much fighting in place of plot.... and then we have cloud performing feats he could never ever do in the actual game such as near flying and being smacked into walls at 100 mph.  I understand some leniency has to be taken to make it entertaining but AC was a typical example of what not to do.  One doesn't need 1 hour battles and ridiculous far fetched (fantasy or not there are limits in a given world) feats which go against the set out laws to make a film interesting.    I have been watching the old twlight zone episodes recently, and I would take some of that acting and scripting over anything that has been made since.

Most people seem to enjoy all the excess violence....but i don't.  I think it is crummy excuse for proper intelligent writing.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-08-02 02:19:57
At the risk of sounding immature, i loved Advent children. the fight scenes were amazing imo. but yes i agree there could have been more plot.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-02 02:57:29
They were amazing graphically, but they were overdone, totally unrealistic even for the world which was originally set out and they were too long.  It could never rank as anything other than a fan flick and that is because its plot is wafer thin.  They try to please graphic whores at same time as pleasing die hards of the series that they leave out the reason for a film.  The story.

I personally feel a film should be about plot and that fight scenes and the like should remain true to the original vision and at least have a sense of realism.  I don't think being smacked into walls and surviving it like you are Wile E. Coyote is good for any fantasy like VII.   It immediately breaks the most fundamental law of story telling, to be able to suspend disbelief.

On VII, tifa struggles with Sephiroth , she is slashed and wounded severely.  Almost dies.  The action is realistic and is over in a matter of seconds.

On AC the fight lasts all year (hyperbole) and has cloud being smacked into walls and flying here and there defying the Gravity, the same gravity which appears identical on Gaia in VII to our planet Earth.  It has boulders flying it at him.....  it is a giant mess imho.  Although a small edit job would do a lot to change that and I may do :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Lionfist on 2009-08-02 13:26:50
Just for the info:

Genesis is a good guy in the end of FF7:DoC
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Covarr on 2009-08-02 15:09:48
MGS4.....I won't even get started on that game....I will just say that I would use that as an absolute example of how graphics got in the way.  Cut scenes lasting over 40 minutes is not intelligent game design and the plot was god awful imho.
While I agree that the cutscenes were too long, that wasn't graphics getting in the way, that was Kojima's storytelling getting in the way. Looking at the actual gameplay segments, they played well AND had remarkable graphics.

Advent Children Complete didn't shrink any of the overly long battles that I noticed, but it did fix the plot to make more sense and be much more engaging. I'm impressed that they managed to do the opposite of a George Lucas, by fixing the movie instead of just adding a bunch of robots in the background or changing characters' motivations and the sequence of events to break things.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2009-08-02 16:12:43
I bought my PS3 for MGS4, guess where my PS3 is now?


No longer in my possession anyway, I was very disappointed in MGS4, the controls didn't feel like an MGS game any more, the Octocamo made the game too easy in all honesty.

They spent too much time on making it cinematic and instead could have refined gameplay a bit more, did we really need the huge weapon list, and the weapon buying system was a bit silly.

Even MGO was dull, full of campers, buggy, laggy and had a couple of exploits here and there.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-02 20:54:27
I wrote a huge review on MGS4 but it is very....aggressive.  I would have to tone down my anger of the time to show it to you.

Controls:  Not MGS. and very awkward
3D: Ended up shoot em up rather than clever game play
Graphics:  Took over story and over game play.  Cut scenes were ridiculous and the fight scenes went on forever in Matrix style.
Plot:  Out of the window.  Total retcon City and other fanciful elements and deus ex machina.  Totally an dutterly ruined the series imho
Gameplay: Sub standard.  100 guns to get and yet they all do the same.   Shoot em up rather than clever.  AI was poor.
Side quests:  As dull as "get 20 game overs and win a medal"  wow.

All in all, I can't find anything aside from graphics that I could praise about MGS4 (not even its music)....and that is the point.  They blew a 50 GB blu-ray disc so much that they couldn't even have many codec people.  And 40 minute cut scenes is a joke.

MGS1 was a masterpiece and imho MGS4 isn't fit to clean its arse.

Maybe I will dig out a link to my review on it sometime.

Getting back ontopic, MGS4 is pretty much the example I would use for what not to do.  That and advent children are examples of what I would avoid.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: The Skillster on 2009-08-02 23:28:46
Is this available on the UK PSN for PSP or has to be done via a PS3.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-08-02 23:37:09
Yeah its available for PSP in the UK.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: titeguy3 on 2009-08-03 07:28:34
MGS4.....I won't even get started on that game....I will just say that I would use that as an absolute example of how graphics got in the way.  Cut scenes lasting over 40 minutes is not intelligent game design and the plot was god awful imho.

That's how MGS games are. Since the beginning it's been 50% gameplay, 50% cutscenes/codec conversations. If you don't wanna watch cutscenes and listen to people talk, why would you play MGS to begin with?

I personally think all four mgs games are marvelous games, and that Hideo Kojima and his Konami team are the cream of the crop when it comes to video game design and development. None of them were perfect, but they were all great games as in they all had their strongpoints (MGS1:Story, MGS2: Controls, MGS3: Fight Sequences, MGS4: Originality).

I personally think it would be impossible to REMAKE ff7 and sacrifice plot for graphics...since the plot's *already there*. All you need to renovate is the graphics. Although I wouldn't hold it past Square-Enix to do something really stupid like make a battle system that emphasizes appearance rather than technique/enjoyability.

EDIT: and it just occurred to me, sometimes over the top flashiness is a good thing. Look at attacks like Omnislash and Supernova. Now don't even try to tell me that Supernova is less over the top than cutting a boulder in half or jumping super high in the air. Hell it even said in the original FF7 manual that cloud's sword "can cut almost anything in two" so I don't see where that's deviating.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: The Seer of Shadows on 2009-08-03 09:18:51
Now, if they ever do remake FF7, one thing that must be done imo is to shorten the Supernova sequence.  That Safer Sephiroth battle can get so frustratingly boring if you don't kill him quickly enough.  Though I realize that to many people, that would be low priority.

When it comes to a remake, I would not imagine that the dialogue, or at least the style of the dialogue, will be very faithful to the original.  It seems a little out of Sephiroth's character to laugh evilly, which he did a little too much in the original FF7.  What I imagine they'll do is simply have him smile instead or alternatively change his attitude to make him appear more contemptuous and loathing.  They're also likely to tone down Barret's and Cid's dialogue, as although you can easily censor swear words when they're written down, it's not the same when there's voice acting.

Certainly, if they do create a voiceover for FF7, I'm praying that they take out Heidegger's "stupid horse laugh" (as Rufus calls it) and Scarlet's signature laugh as well as Palmer getting the hiccups while laughing during battle, because really, what kind of voice actor could imitate that in a way that doesn't sound ridiculous?  Nevertheless, I'd be interested in seeing what kind of voice actors they get.  I'd also be interested in hearing spoken dialogue from Bugenhagen and, more than anyone else, Jenova.

The worst thing they could do with a remake is incorporating a FF7AC-like battle style.  Simply because that just wouldn't look right in many battles (the boss battle against Palmer comes to mind).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-03 09:42:28
Now, if they ever do remake FF7, one thing that must be done imo is to shorten the Supernova sequence.  That Safer Sephiroth battle can get so frustratingly boring if you don't kill him quickly enough.  Though I realize that to many people, that would be low priority.

But the Supernova sequence is legendary! OK, what they could do is shorten it after the first time you see it. They could also give the player the option of watching a shortened versions of the summons, as they do in some other FF games. In the mod I've been meaning to get working on, Supernova is changed slightly, so you'll only see it once in battle  :wink:

When it comes to a remake, I would not imagine that the dialogue, or at least the style of the dialogue, will be very faithful to the original.  It seems a little out of Sephiroth's character to laugh evilly, which he did a little too much in the original FF7.  What I imagine they'll do is simply have him smile instead or alternatively change his attitude to make him appear more contemptuous and loathing.

He does laugh a little, but I never thought of it as an evil laugh; it always seemed to be a laugh at the craziness/futility of the situation. So yeah, no evil laugh please  :roll:

They're also likely to tone down Barret's and Cid's dialogue, as although you can easily censor swear words when they're written down, it's not the same when there's voice acting.

Pfft, Americans  :-P

That's a possibility if they want a low age rating, but I hope they don't do it.

Certainly, if they do create a voiceover for FF7, I'm praying that they take out Heidegger's "stupid horse laugh" (as Rufus calls it) and Scarlet's signature laugh as well as Palmer getting the hiccups while laughing during battle, because really, what kind of voice actor could imitate that in a way that doesn't sound ridiculous?  Nevertheless, I'd be interested in seeing what kind of voice actors they get.  I'd also be interested in hearing spoken dialogue from Bugenhagen and, more than anyone else, Jenova.

But those things that Heidegger, Scarlet and Palmer do are parts of their character! Really, what would they be without Gya-ha-ha and Kya-ha-ha? Well, I suppose they'd be like a clean mouthed Cid or Barret  :|

The worst thing they could do with a remake is incorporating a FF7AC-like battle style.  Simply because that just wouldn't look right in many battles (the boss battle against Palmer comes to mind).

ZOMG but the less time the fighters spend on the ground the better the fight is!

I'd say the AC style fights wouldn't look right in any of the battles. It's a fantasy game, but the FF7 world seems to have the same physical laws as ours ('cept for the magic and ability to swing huge swords). Higher and crazier isn't always better.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: The Seer of Shadows on 2009-08-03 10:33:39
When it comes to a remake, I would not imagine that the dialogue, or at least the style of the dialogue, will be very faithful to the original.  It seems a little out of Sephiroth's character to laugh evilly, which he did a little too much in the original FF7.  What I imagine they'll do is simply have him smile instead or alternatively change his attitude to make him appear more contemptuous and loathing.

He does laugh a little, but I never thought of it as an evil laugh; it always seemed to be a laugh at the craziness/futility of the situation. So yeah, no evil laugh please  :roll:

With the character of Kefka still quite fresh in their minds while they were working on the original FFVII, they probably intended Sephiroth to be insane and laughing evilly, though not so much as Kefka.  At least, that's how I see it.  I mean, they pretty much copied the final boss battle of FFVI for reuse in FFVII, with a few alterations.  It just seems to me that they liked Kefka so much that they wanted to take him and make him into something even better, the product being Sephiroth.

Nowadays, Sephiroth actually seems sane, though still ill-intending and dark.  That's the kind of villain I prefer.  It's scarier to see Sephiroth looking at the camera with hatred than with a creepy smile that makes it seem as if he has completely gone off his rocker.  And both of these approaches to his character have been seen through various remakes of that Nibelheim scene where there is fire all around and he slowly looks up at the camera.

What I'm saying is that over time, Sephiroth's evil character seems to have evolved.  I watched AC not long after playing FF7 for the first time and Sephiroth really struck me as being completely different.  In the game, he seems like he is out of control, and merely desiring the destruction of everything just for the sake of becoming more powerful.  In AC, he seems to be perfectly in control of himself, and wanting to create a future of his own while killing the planet in the process since it'll further his plan.  I've noticed it through the differences in his battle quotes between the two KH games as well (though he was abnormally out of character in the first.  "No more games.  Show me what you've got!"  Sephiroth saying that?  Really?), not to mention the change in voice actors dramatically changing his persona (and that was undeniably for the better.  Even Lance Bass knows that, I'm sure).

It's also interesting to note that at the end of FF7, when he fades away, you briefly see an expression of sorrow and devastation on his face, but every time he is defeated from the release of KH onwards, he fades while bearing an expression of anger.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-03 15:36:21

That's how MGS games are. Since the beginning it's been 50% gameplay, 50% cutscenes/codec conversations. If you don't wanna watch cutscenes and listen to people talk, why would you play MGS to begin with?

No.  You miss the point.  MGS1, most of the talking was optional.  You had more codec people, same as in 2 and 3.  The gameplay was 50/50 and the story didn't suck.  In MGS4, you are forced into multiple cut scenes and it is ANYTHING but 50/50.  It is more like 80/20 in favour of bloated meaningless cut scenes.  MGS1 and 2 are two of my favourite games.  MGS4 is imho, a huge waste of disc.  If MGS4 had a decent plot which wasn't a far fetched retcon, fair enough, but it didn't.  It was a rather bloated ego masturbation for Hideo and fanboys.  MGS1 was a masterpiece in both story and gameplay.  MGS2 was a masterpiece in game play.  And even 3 had something to offer.  But most of us don't want forcing into 40 minute cut scenes.  Cutscens in MGS1 were seldom if ever as long as the ones in MGS4 and they were nowhere near as frequent.  If I want to watch a bad movie I will find one in a film shop.


EDIT: and it just occurred to me, sometimes over the top flashiness is a good thing. Look at attacks like Omnislash and Supernova. Now don't even try to tell me that Supernova is less over the top than cutting a boulder in half or jumping super high in the air. Hell it even said in the original FF7 manual that cloud's sword "can cut almost anything in two" so I don't see where that's deviating.

Actually it is shortened down in the japanese version by a lot, and yes it is over the top and since there is no way to skip it, it becomes irritating after the first time you have seen it.  But it is in the battle.  The battle is not the field and should not be taken literally as part of the story.  Also, this is a fantasy.  It has laws like any other world.  It can allow a sword to cut almost anything in 2 without it being far fetched, but once it has made the rule that a human can easily die (tifa vs sep for a starter) and that a lot of its laws are based entirely on those of Earth, it can no longer allow fight scenes that go on for ages and DEFY BIOLOGY.  A story has its limits and so many people fail to see this.

You cannot have tifa being slashed once and almost dying to then have people smashed into brick walls without a scratch on them. That isn't how good story telling works, now or ever.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: titeguy3 on 2009-08-03 15:59:22
You cannot have tifa being slashed once and almost dying to then have people smashed into brick walls without a scratch on them. That isn't how good story telling works, now or ever.

They're at higher levels.  :-P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-03 16:02:26
You cannot have tifa being slashed once and almost dying to then have people smashed into brick walls without a scratch on them. That isn't how good story telling works, now or ever.

They're at higher levels.  :-P

 :lol: :lol:  :-D

Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-08-03 16:11:42

That's how MGS games are. Since the beginning it's been 50% gameplay, 50% cutscenes/codec conversations. If you don't wanna watch cutscenes and listen to people talk, why would you play MGS to begin with?

No.  You miss the point.  MGS1, most of the talking was optional.  You had more codec people, same as in 2 and 3.  The gameplay was 50/50 and the story didn't suck.  In MGS4, you are forced into multiple cut scenes and it is ANYTHING but 50/50.  It is more like 80/20 in favour of bloated meaningless cut scenes.  MGS1 and 2 are two of my favourite games.  MGS4 is imho, a huge waste of disc.  If MGS4 had a decent plot which wasn't a far fetched retcon, fair enough, but it didn't.  It was a rather bloated ego masturbation for Hideo and fanboys.  MGS1 was a masterpiece in both story and gameplay.  MGS2 was a masterpiece in game play.  And even 3 had something to offer.  But most of us don't want forcing into 40 minute cut scenes.  Cutscens in MGS1 were seldom if ever as long as the ones in MGS4 and they were nowhere near as frequent.  If I want to watch a bad movie I will find one in a film shop.


EDIT: and it just occurred to me, sometimes over the top flashiness is a good thing. Look at attacks like Omnislash and Supernova. Now don't even try to tell me that Supernova is less over the top than cutting a boulder in half or jumping super high in the air. Hell it even said in the original FF7 manual that cloud's sword "can cut almost anything in two" so I don't see where that's deviating.

Actually it is shortened down in the japanese version by a lot, and yes it is over the top and since there is no way to skip it, it becomes irritating after the first time you have seen it.  But it is in the battle.  The battle is not the field and should not be taken literally as part of the story.  Also, this is a fantasy.  It has laws like any other world.  It can allow a sword to cut almost anything in 2 without it being far fetched, but once it has made the rule that a human can easily die (tifa vs sep for a starter) and that a lot of its laws are based entirely on those of Earth, it can no longer allow fight scenes that go on for ages and DEFY BIOLOGY.  A story has its limits and so many people fail to see this.

You cannot have tifa being slashed once and almost dying to then have people smashed into brick walls without a scratch on them. That isn't how good story telling works, now or ever.

I'm not trying to seek an argument so I'm going to be as polite as possible when I say this.

Be careful. The last time you were here, you aggravated a few people (including myself) by not taking into account the opinions of others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Authoritarian_Personality).

You - yet again - are demonstrating how right you are in every single way. Does the thought never cross your mind that you could be wrong? Is it not more likely that the majority don't care about the limits of a fantasy world?

Some people might have enjoyed the way MGS4 played out, from start to finish. You really can't just encroach upon everyone elses freedom of speech and expression. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying) Seifer, to avoid a scenario like last time, I am asking you nicely to please make sure when posting things like this, to make it CLEAR that it is YOUR opinion, and not fact. Because it's not fact - it's your opinion. And it's this forcefulness, this having to be right all the time, the stubborn, sometimes arrogant nature of your posts that get you so many enemies.

You're writing what you THINK, not what IS. Please be careful, that's all I ask.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-03 16:24:58
I am not replying to that or even reading it;)  because you have failed with the emotional response and ignorance that I no longer have any desire to take notice of.  That kind of post creates problems directly and you know it.  If you didn't want to create an argument you should have gone about it better (all i can see is underlining and the first line put me off) .  If you can't handle what I have to say, don't read it.  Free speech and all that crap

 :-P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Prince Lex on 2009-08-03 16:41:03
Then why did you reply?

I'm not trying to cause problems, I was just trying to give you some advice. You seem to be very self destructive yourself.

EDIT: Forgot to add, I wonder what your post said before the edit?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: obesebear on 2009-08-03 17:40:28
Really???  This sh*t again??

Please, let's just drop this now.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Covarr on 2009-08-03 18:15:35
In MGS4, you are forced into multiple cut scenes and it is ANYTHING but 50/50.  It is more like 80/20 in favour of bloated meaningless cut scenes.
You can skip cutscenes, at least in the 2nd playthrough. I don't know about the first playthrough, because I didn't try to skip any cutscenes, seeing as I enjoyed them.

But the fact of the matter is, it certainly wasn't an instance of sacrificing gameplay for graphics. You may not have liked the gameplay, but it's clear that a lot of time and thought went into every aspect of it. It's polished, and it does what it tries to do. Every feature was put in all the way. Sure the Drebin shop wasn't the greatest idea in the world, and the guns were pretty much the same, but the stealth was very much intact (at least if you go for a zero alert playthrough), and the controls worked well.

For an example of a game that sacrifices gameplay for graphics, look no further than the first three Resident Evil games (as well as REmake). The tank controls were awful, but it's obvious that Capcom didn't care about anything but fright factor.

In a FF7 remake, I'd be just as interested in a shorter animation for Knights of the Round, not just Supernova. It's enough that it takes a long time and much work to actually GET KotR, but then to have to sit through its ridiculous animation every time was quite annoying. Particularly when you abuse materia so that your whole party uses it consecutively. Using that against Safer Sephiroth, with him also using Supernova, makes for just a ridiculous battle.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-08-03 18:42:18
I agree Covarr. Though instead of shorter. Do what they did in FFX, set animations to short for Aeon summons and overdrivers.

Also, i enjoyed MGS4, granted i only played MGS1 and only got half way through, but MGS4 i thought was a fantastic game.

I jokingly say it's an "interactive movie over a game" But still great
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-03 19:56:28
We will just have to disagree on mgs4   :-D

As for KoTR and other long animations, I agree.  FF9 and I think 10 made it so you could reduce the animation times.  We need some way to do that for 7.  Super nova was much shorter in jap version (i mentioned before and i prob learnt that here.  Any case > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWcFUQ0THJ0 )

Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-08-03 23:35:58
is the japanese version of supernova even in the Us game? or did they remove it completely? If it is i would love to put that animation in for a move with wallmarket
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: The Seer of Shadows on 2009-08-04 00:36:58
Seconded.  I actually prefer that version of Supernova.  The US version is over the top.

I imagine it'll have the same modding limitation as the US version, though, that being that it can only be used in Safer Sephiroth's battle background.  It probably can't be found anywhere in the US version of the game anyway.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-08-04 01:00:51
the only reason you can only use it in safer sephiroth's backround is because in the us version the backround breaks away to reveal the beginning of the attack

the japanese version should be usable anywhere as it is just fading into the universe where the supernova happens.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Covarr on 2009-08-04 01:11:15
How difficult would it be, assuming the US game has the Japanese version of the attack somewhere in its code, to swap the animation in so that US players could have the shorter animation?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: The Seer of Shadows on 2009-08-04 01:24:21
It would be as easy as opening the scene.bin with Proud Clod, scrolling down to the file with Safer Sephiroth in it, clicking on "Super Nova" in the attack list on the left, and changing no more than two, possibly three values.  The problem comes in with knowing what to change them to.

The values I'm talking about are the attack animation and the camera angle.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Xelane on 2009-08-04 01:31:24
well to start we need to know if it is still in there at all. if it is then it is probably not listed in any attack index, but i imagine that they just put it somewhere else instead of rewriting the code for the entire move.

so the question comes down to: if i were a game designer.....

where would i put the original attack animation?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: The Seer of Shadows on 2009-08-04 02:12:22
If I were a game designer, and I was to make a new animation for Super Nova, I would leave the original wherever it was to begin with and create the new Super Nova somewhere else.  In other words, if the original Super Nova is to be found anywhere, I imagine it would be somewhere among Sephiroth's other attack animations (I assume that's where they put Super Nova originally).

I wouldn't get any hopes up about finding it, though it is a cool idea.  It'd be a nice attack to put in the Comet materia if possible (if not, then maybe it could get a place in Enemy Skills as a replacement for that stupid Dragon Force thing).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-04 03:01:44
They may have removed it and swapped it with the new one.  Afterall, the new one is not in the jap version I assume, and the new one probably has exact same ref address as old.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: The Seer of Shadows on 2009-08-04 03:33:24
I'm thinking exactly the same thing, which is why I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-08-04 13:00:32
but is it possible to rip it from psx version?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Opine on 2009-08-04 16:54:39
I agree Covarr. Though instead of shorter. Do what they did in FFX, set animations to short for Aeon summons and overdrivers.

I sincerely hope they do this. I hate sitting through KOTR, and then watching it be mimed twice. I appreciated them having a "shortening option" for the summons in X.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VII downloaded 100,000 times in two weeks
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-04 17:02:35
Hey, I said it first (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8636.msg110912#msg110912)  :-D

Anyway... Ja, an option for shorter summons is badly needed (although I hardly ever used summons myself, and no-one should need to use KotR, except against Ruby Weapon).

It has also come to my attention that we are hideously OT  :-P