Qhimm.com Forums
Project forums => Team Avalanche => Topic started by: BlitzNCS on 2009-11-14 22:45:42
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Right, i figured the earlier discussions about this kinda stuff were kinda just in other threads, and it was a topicless topic of discussion. Now it has its own thread :lol:
So yeah, at any rate, i've been playing around with it a little bit, and i can get perfect camera angles, and accurate models.
The only problem is, unless somebody has an autodesk 3DS Max subscription, UV maps will have to be entirely custom mapped, if we're to export into 3Ds Max. i'm not sure about blender, but i dont think its possible in that either. You do, however, get seperate textures for each face you create in sketchup. so anyway, Here's a screenshot of a really rough taster of the things we'll end up being able to do when this is done.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/LOLRENDER-2.jpg) (http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/LOLRENDER-2.jpg)
EDIT: I just noticed Photoshop snapped the original picture way too high, and threw the new/old sync out a bit, that's why it looks way too high.
to be honest, we don't even need perfect precision with geometric-unfriendly areas. even if we just model things based around what we see, we can just change the walkmesh so it lines up decently. it's not like you can interact with the scenery anyway.
Oh, and i'm not the best texturer in the world, either, so, I might need a few recruits. the plan is, people with sketchup find the perspective and camera angle with the "match photo" tool, and create the necessary 3D references. The sketchup files are then uploaded somewhere, and the 3D artists go in and model a pretty high-poly scene with what they have. Texture artists collaborate, then the model and textures are rendered with the exported camera sketchup provides. At present, most of these people will probably end up being the same guy, which will obviously make this the slowest project in this forum's history (yes, even Qgears and FF7voice)
But more to the point, we need people with experience and the will to help out with this. i'll also eventually need someone to share what they know about the how the walkmesh camera is changed over time in cutscenes that include realtime rendered field models.
uhhh. i hope i've covered everything. if i forgot something, i'll edit this post with what info i missed.
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Looks promising. The other thing we need to look into is procedural textures. Im not sure if anyone knows how to make them but this is how square did it, and if it is easier to do then regular textures it might be an avenue to explore.
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This is a free procedural texture generator, i've used it before(for HL2 mapping) and it's a good program. I prefer PS or GiMP since i'm more familiar with them, but it's a great way to get natural looking textures. One word of warning though, you need a fairly decent computer(at least dualcore with 4GB RAM), otherwise it takes FOREVER to render you results. Also it's completely free.
http://www.mapzoneeditor.com/?PAGE=HOME
You results so far look very good, the best we've seen so far. The only flaw i see with this method is the sheer amount of time it will take to do all of the field background, but you've taken this into account.
lee
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This is a free procedural texture generator, i've used it before(for HL2 mapping) and it's a good program. I prefer PS or GiMP since i'm more familiar with them, but it's a great way to get natural looking textures. One word of warning though, you need a fairly decent computer(at least dualcore with 4GB RAM), otherwise it takes FOREVER to render you results. Also it's completely free.
http://www.mapzoneeditor.com/?PAGE=HOME
You results so far look very good, the best we've seen so far. The only flaw i see with this method is the sheer amount of time it will take to do all of the field background, but you've taken this into account.
lee
Quad core, baby :D
aight, that's texturing seemingly almost completely avoided (in these kind of situations, things like this never work out properly). i dunno how this works, but it looks promising, so i'll play around with it.
and yes, i have taken this into account.
Also, I forgot, unless you're playing in windowed mode or have stretching disabled, the original backgrounds are just stretched over the entire screen. what we want is the thing in my screenshot, a widescreen field of view (i.e walkmeshes scaled, but not stretched). i don't know how to accomplish this, but maybe it's a question for Aali?
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If you can, send me the exported model/textures, so i can play around a bit. also, I'd suggest against procedurals... thats what square used, and thats why the backgrounds look dumb.
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O.o what is this? A new project or something? lawls.
If so then it'll be interesting! :mrgreen:
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Yeah, that's it. eventually, I'll be able to re-shoot some FMV's with this, as well as get every single field background re-done - Although nobody seems too interested in helping out, which is kind of a shame.
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Is my sketchup files working out for you?
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yeah, it works great :-D. the only problem is, we'll never be able to get total 100% accuracy. I mean, images when changing views don't always line up perfectly, but we don't really need to get stuff 100% perfect anyway.
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but but but 100% perfection would be the best
i would help if i had the free time/knowledge to having to jobs has its bonus' but you lose free time if you sleep
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I've been practicing because I need to do this for something else, so I'm improving nonetheless.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/knifethesky/Untitled4.jpg)
Anyone wanna take a stab at what that says?
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north? I know "north gate station" is written all over the place
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"North Edge Station" actually.
It looks like you aren't using my model. You have my permission to have it. You are going to find that rooftop really hard :)
I worked so hard aligning everything too. The model doesn't seem level and you can erase those cross members edges. Sketchup works much better with quads.
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where is your model halkun?
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where is your model halkun?
on my computer at home. I should probably upload it, huh :) I sent it to NeoCloudstrife.
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Hey guys, actually you can view the actual 3D walkmeshes of these backgrounds by using the meteor program. However you will be very dissapointed because those walkmeshes are very poorly done, almost looks 2D. For example this is the Wutai walkmeshes. With meteor you can view the orthographic camera, perspective camera( although this may not show in all backgrounds) and field camera which is the game camera. The green square objects are coordinates of field models which will appear in the game. The top joint-2-box is the game camera. Meteor is still in alpha version so it definitely can be better. I think you guys should contact the guy synergy blades who developed this program. Maybe he will be able to export those walkmeshes into editable and importable format in google sketchup. They look horrible but you can extrude the vertices to create the temple meshes as in this background, and their positions will be almost 100% accurate. If not this can still be used as references.
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/refoopseman/ScreenShot002.png)
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/refoopseman/ScreenShot004.png)
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/refoopseman/ScreenShot003.png)
(http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/refoopseman/ScreenShot005.png)
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I know this, in fact, i'm sure i even made a reference to walkmeshes earlier in this thread. The walkmeshes won't help very much/at all though. for one we can't export them, and it's probably just easier to build from scratch.
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Actually the walkmeshes are not precise. they are the boundaries of play, the limit to which you can move, but that isnt right up to a whall or something, its actually short of it, and the outlines are vague. The actual floor/walkmesh is fairly easy to do in sketchup, so its not a big worry.
EDIT: just thought of something - one thing we could do is retextured the projected textures n render, but another possibility is to get the exported model, and drop it into a program like zbrush or mudbox. I'm not very familiar with these, but i do have zbrush and do need to learn it. They are used for 3d sculpting, and could greatly help get all the details into the environments. for example in the first scenes of midgar the rough metally texture of the train could be bumped in, the cobblestones moulded etc, then you apply a simple texture, mainly color, and render with good lighting. still, - i need the models and need to learn zbrush. :P
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I took one of my practice models from sketchup and converted it to .obj with blender with texture maps
I dont know If i did it right, but whatev.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7R17HHQR
You can play with it or something, until someone posts a real model.
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Neo what have you ever completed or released? I find it hard to get on your band wagon. You talk allot, but do very little for the public. You seem to suffer from " look at me" syndrome.
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he sent me what he had done, and it gives me hope. the textures project nicely, givein opportunity to redo them properl. combined with sculpting we could get some great results.
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Neo what have you ever completed or released? I find it hard to get on your band wagon. You talk allot, but do very little for the public. You seem to suffer from " look at me" syndrome.
this is a VERY large poject. Much more than WMRP and 2DO. i decided to take on WMRP alone so things would be consistant between transisitions, but this is completely different. I applaud neo for his effort, he has willfully chosen the hardest project for remaking this game (x100). I only hope a few folks can join him so this doesn't fade into obscourity!
Lee
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Neo what have you ever completed or released? I find it hard to get on your band wagon. You talk allot, but do very little for the public. You seem to suffer from " look at me" syndrome.
this is a VERY large poject. Much more than WMRP and 2DO. i decided to take on WMRP alone so things would be consistant between transisitions, but this is completely different. I applaud neo for his effort, he has willfully chosen the hardest project for remaking this game (x100). I only hope a few folks can join him so this doesn't fade into obscourity!
Lee
Psst its not 2DO anymore :P
I am following what is going on in this thread and it does have some great potential, unfortunately I have way too much other stuff to work on for the game to attempt this. I have already figured out how to get the files back into the game without seams between layers, and thats all I can do at the moment. I am having a hard enough time to find the motivation to work on the stuff I already started.
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I know this, in fact, i'm sure i even made a reference to walkmeshes earlier in this thread. The walkmeshes won't help very much/at all though. for one we can't export them, and it's probably just easier to build from scratch.
Actually I have all the walkmeshes exported as .obj files
All of them
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Neo what have you ever completed or released? I find it hard to get on your band wagon. You talk allot, but do very little for the public. You seem to suffer from " look at me" syndrome.
...oh, thanks. That's nice. :-P
Seriously though, I know I've never completed anything I've started, and that kinda run's into my real life, and my projects on other forums, too... I guess the reason for this is that i always lose motivation for some reason or another. But this is something i'm gonna strive to complete, whatever happens. it's not as if i do stuff just for the "fame" or whatever. well, at least, not on this forum - that's the old me. Don'cha think it's a little harsh to jump to that conclusion? I really don't mean to seem like that, so, sorry if i do. [/off-topic]
I know this, in fact, i'm sure i even made a reference to walkmeshes earlier in this thread. The walkmeshes won't help very much/at all though. for one we can't export them, and it's probably just easier to build from scratch.
Actually I have all the walkmeshes exported as .obj files
All of them
It'd probably be quite helpful for you to send them over :P
and guys, thanks for the support. I'm currently trying to get more references, and i've been playing around with Crisis core scenes. they seem to modelled based on the originals, and some of them would probably be a massive help towards some places. Theoretically, it looks like we could actually USE the Crisis core model for costa de sol. (of course, obviously not going to)
I'll probably have an update next week or something
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Sorry to be so harsh towards you Neo. I was in a very foul mood and it came out in a rude way. I really think this project has great potential and hope everyone working on it much luck. When I finish some other modding projects I do want to help you guys out in finishing this.
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Seriously though, I know I've never completed anything I've started, and that kinda run's into my real life, and my projects on other forums, too... I guess the reason for this is that i always lose motivation for some reason or another. But this is something i'm gonna strive to complete, whatever happens. it's not as if i do stuff just for the "fame" or whatever. well, at least, not on this forum - that's the old me. Don'cha think it's a little harsh to jump to that conclusion? I really don't mean to seem like that, so, sorry if i do. [/off-topic]
This is why my original Sketchup experiment was labeled an experiment. I knew I was stumbling on some cool technology, but didn't want to be committed to it.
It'd probably be quite helpful for you to send them over :P
and guys, thanks for the support. I'm currently trying to get more references, and i've been playing around with Crisis core scenes. they seem to modelled based on the originals, and some of them would probably be a massive help towards some places. Theoretically, it looks like we could actually USE the Crisis core model for costa de sol. (of course, obviously not going to)
I'll probably have an update next week or something
Some of the CC assests were pretty sweet, but I already did a comparison and they are "re imagined". The train, however is pretty close (Except that it's missing it's left side)
But sadly, PSP ripping is a no-no now. :(
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halkun can you send me your sketchup work?
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Neo, this is a great project, and it needs to be done just as much as everything else. But you might not want to commit so fully to it. In order to finish this you're going to have to spend hundreds (dare I say thousands?) of hours on it. I really hope you get another 19 people on your team to cut into this massive amount of work you've undertaken.
Good luck, man. I'll keep my eye on this thread to see what kind of progress you can pull off. And if it's still going on once I finish some of my own personal projects, I'll definitely do what I can to help. Maybe post up a tutorial or two?
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halkun can you send me your sketchup work?
I'll get it to you when I get home
=== UPDATE ===
Sent
Anyone want the walkmesh .obj exports?
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Anyone want the walkmesh .obj exports?
yeah, might be handy. send 'em over :P
Neo, this is a great project, and it needs to be done just as much as everything else. But you might not want to commit so fully to it. In order to finish this you're going to have to spend hundreds (dare I say thousands?) of hours on it. I really hope you get another 19 people on your team to cut into this massive amount of work you've undertaken.
Good luck, man. I'll keep my eye on this thread to see what kind of progress you can pull off. And if it's still going on once I finish some of my own personal projects, I'll definitely do what I can to help. Maybe post up a tutorial or two?
Thanks for the support man, and yeah, I really could use some help. I guess i could make a tutorial at some point, but that would have to be in a few weeks time.
Sorry to be so harsh towards you Neo. I was in a very foul mood and it came out in a rude way. I really think this project has great potential and hope everyone working on it much luck. When I finish some other modding projects I do want to help you guys out in finishing this.
No worries dude, and thanks :D
*gets back to work*
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The walkmeshes are still online at the original URL: http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/walkmesh.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/walkmesh.zip)
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Now I'm interested to see how my experiments turned out.
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Can this be done on xp
having isues opening software
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yup
===EDIT===
Because of a lack of background WIP screenshots, I decided to play with my model on my side.
Picture (http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1521/clipboard01p.png)
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wow. looks good halkun
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Don't tell me I'm the only one working on it :P
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Not at all, i've just been busier than i thought i would have been, so i don't have much to show for myself.
the only problem i'm seeing now is linking this place to the back of the wall, you know where i mean? there doesn't seem to be a definative edge, and i'm pretty sure it's slightly curved as well.
also, i'm curious to know how you got the "gate" part (near the door to the reactor) to look right. have you adjusted the angle since giving your file to me? i've been having a LOT of trouble with angles.
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when you're done with the area, email it to me in .obj or something w/ textures plz, i'll start work on it when the scene is done
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Not at all, i've just been busier than i thought i would have been, so i don't have much to show for myself.
the only problem i'm seeing now is linking this place to the back of the wall, you know where i mean? there doesn't seem to be a definative edge, and i'm pretty sure it's slightly curved as well.
also, i'm curious to know how you got the "gate" part (near the door to the reactor) to look right. have you adjusted the angle since giving your file to me? i've been having a LOT of trouble with angles.
No angles, the lines just "snap" along the axis. when you pull "up", the pencil tool will follow the blue axis. Look at the youtube tutorials.
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i know, wha ti meant was matching up the camera right, with the 4 axis lines, you know what i mean? with such low res pictures its hard to get accuracy
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Don't worry about accuracy. If you are a half-foot off, it's not going to kill anyone. No need to kill yourself over an error of a few degrees. When I have some time, I'll make a video for you all.
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I'd like to see someone try a screen thats less partial to cubes such as ancnt1 or loslake3.
Also, hakun, can you send me your model. I wanna see how the pros do their work :roll:
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i dont think sketchup doest irregular shapes that well (not sure exactly which scenes those filenames refered to) It can do curves and all sorts of intersting things, but i imagine its a little less accurate.
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probably the forgotten city... likely where all of the ginormous seashells are. it has been a while since i looked at those files, but that is where i am guessing knife was referring to :-P.
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No news for us, NeoCloudstrife?
How is your work proceeding? :-)
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Sorry, i've been Trying to get as much done as i can with this. Unfortunately, about 2 weeks ago, I had totally forgotten I had this long strong of exams. I've been pretty much revising every night, and in the time I had free, I've been just testing out which places would be best to start at and stuff. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, however, and usually when i get an angle that i think looks pretty much perfect, an hour later i hit an angle snag that requires me to totally move the point of origin, and everything just looks out and i start over. I think a lot of this will have to be guessed at, too. While testing out junon, there's really no way some of this stuff can be perfectly done. We may have to actually edit the Camera positioning in the field files also.
So, sorry, i have pretty much nothing to show you guys. Perhaps if i had a little help...
Oh, and there's that little matter of no longer beong able to save sketchup files into a format 3Dsmax can read. Maybe i'll have to use blender as a bridge.....again....
Nevermind that, Found a way around it. ;)
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Is there any way to use the walk meshes in google sketchup itself to use as a guide?.
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Yes, there is, and in fact, i have a dump of all of the walkmeshes. But apparently, they arent much help. admittedly though, i havent experimented with them yet, so i'll see what i can do with them. they actually might help out with junon and it's majorly long road thingies.
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Thank you for your update, NeoCloudstrife!
I wish you success and I hope some competent person can step in and help you with this ambitious project! :wink:
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So there is no other way? would ripping the background files of the psx version work? or using some advance filtering, there has to be another way sorry for the newb post. But I honestly think that the blurry backgrounds are the only thing holding the PC version back.
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Ripping the PSX backgrounds has been suggested before, but the results were disappointing. The PSX backgrounds are actually no better than the PC ones (you can see this if you play the game on an emulator). The reason they look better is because televisions tend to smooth out the pixelation better than computers do.
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A very promising project it is.
Also, have a Happy New Year 2010! (:
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Well you could always redo them in 2d.. as matte paintings. Takes some serious talent but hell its worth a try
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Ripping the PSX backgrounds has been suggested before, but the results were disappointing. The PSX backgrounds are actually no better than the PC ones (you can see this if you play the game on an emulator). The reason they look better is because televisions tend to smooth out the pixelation better than computers do.
Is there anyway to put in similar software that the tv uses in aali's driver?
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Ripping the PSX backgrounds has been suggested before, but the results were disappointing. The PSX backgrounds are actually no better than the PC ones (you can see this if you play the game on an emulator). The reason they look better is because televisions tend to smooth out the pixelation better than computers do.
Is there anyway to put in similar software that the tv uses in aali's driver?
You could just run a filter on the video files for the same effect. But it doesnt look pretty
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Ripping the PSX backgrounds has been suggested before, but the results were disappointing. The PSX backgrounds are actually no better than the PC ones (you can see this if you play the game on an emulator). The reason they look better is because televisions tend to smooth out the pixelation better than computers do.
Is there anyway to put in similar software that the tv uses in aali's driver?
You could just run a filter on the video files for the same effect. But it doesnt look pretty
Well were almost there I am currently reading up on how to code my own openGL shader plugin. Having some success (Making it more blurry) BUT its some thing right...I'll get it I am very tenacious.
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Sorry for the shameless double post but I've been messing around with skechup myself and I can't seem to get the geometry right every scene is a bit off has anyone found a good way to line that up?
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It's the thing that puts me off spending time on this project time and time again. What'll happen is, I get it almost accurate, then try to draw along some axis, and it's just completely off. When i finally fix it, the rest of the scene looks weird, and by the time I come to adding another angle, I'm too sick and tired of messing about with sketchup to bother continuing. The fact is, there's no 100% accurate way to get it right. There is a trick, however. just makes the lines as long as possible, and fit them over the entire axis reference line on the picture.
Oh, also, walkmeshes do help. A LOT. Because you know that they're exactly the right scale for the BG images. I've got junon perfectly matched up now, I think.
I'd say Crisis core maps would be a BIG help if we could get our hands on 'em, too. I have a few, but none of any use really.
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Wow at the pace I'm moving with this I could redraw the whole backround (if I was that good) I wish there was another program to use to render these backrounds in 3D.
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Are you at all interested in helping me out with these? All you'd have to provide are some basic references (I just need blocks and lines really) and I can do the rest in 3DSmax. It'd really be appreciated.
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Sure I do have to warn you thou I'm not very good I'm still new at skechup. Just tell me the scene and I will try.
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uh, do whatever you want, it doesn't bother me. I just need to practise doing anything I can in max, since I've never actually gotten that far. Maybe make it a square-ish one to start, just so it's not too difficult to do.
EDIT: I'm even more excited than I thought I'd be :P I finally have a little help with this project!
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uh, do whatever you want, it doesn't bother me. I just need to practise doing anything I can in max, since I've never actually gotten that far. Maybe make it a square-ish one to start, just so it's not too difficult to do.
EDIT: I'm even more excited than I thought I'd be :P I finally have a little help with this project!
Got it! all send you over some soon.
EDIT:How am I doing do I need to change the way I photomatch?
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/Mako_07/Untitled-1.png
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/Mako_07/Untitled2.png
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My sincere thanks to Mako and NeoCloudstrife for joining forces! :wink:
Keep it up!
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uh, do whatever you want, it doesn't bother me. I just need to practise doing anything I can in max, since I've never actually gotten that far. Maybe make it a square-ish one to start, just so it's not too difficult to do.
EDIT: I'm even more excited than I thought I'd be :P I finally have a little help with this project!
Got it! all send you over some soon.
EDIT:How am I doing do I need to change the way I photomatch?
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/Mako_07/Untitled-1.png
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae246/Mako_07/Untitled2.png
Nope, they're perfect. Don't need the stuff on the right hand side though, since i'll model the train seperately some time.
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Ok I'll post a link soon do you just want the skechup file correct? Also I'm at work so unless I have another background pic I won't be able to make any progress until tonight.
EDIT: Also what is a good free file hosting site?
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Megaupload or mediafire is good. And yeah, sketchup file's fine.
Also I'm at work so unless I have another background pic I won't be able to make any progress until tonight.
Chill out there, This project's been alive for a good while now, and progress is next to nowhere. I'm sure I can handle a few hours of waiting :lol:. Just do whatever you can, whenever you can. :wink:
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Here you go glad I could be of some help> :-) I will get better with more practice also feel free to offer any suggestions.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FZYXYAC7
EDIT: Second try with a little cleaner image plus step's
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HXUYKQLE
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I'm curious if any of you fine fellows have seen this
http://www.cs.uiuc.edu/homes/dhoiem/projects/popup/
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No I haven't tried that program yet looks promising I'll try it when I get home. Hey Neo how goes it any progress?
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Not much, but more recently I have been doing stuff. I think I might save midgar for near the end, actually, reconstructing the entire city is going to be a mammoth job. I've been Doing part of Junon, actually. Currently modelling the buildings (shops etc.). I'm modelling at quite a high poly count, so it might take a while. so far I've got the door and bottom window done, the rest should only take me a day or so, and I can just copy stuff when I'm done, so it won't take too long after that. That's if I'm not being lazy though, which I probably will be. But perhaps soon we'll have the first remade, usable background!
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Hmmm it seems I misunderstood how this process works I thought we were just using photomatch to render the scene's in 3D...It sound like your trying to model the whole scene from scratch into 3D. Maybe you could explain the process and steps you are using to complete a scene so I may be of some help.
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You can get far better results by building out the scene in 3d with proper materials and lighting.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_02.jpg)
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our main concern was lining everything up right, how did you go about keeping everything properly positioned?
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Oh wow that looks amazing.
How long did that take?
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Well, to get to that point took me an hour. A good chunk of the time was spent with learning how to use the camera matching tools in Max.
Took the original image into sketchup, lined up the perspective lines with the cage, then drew out the ground floor shape.
Imported the shape into max, and went from there building placeholders for all the objects needed.
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might do well to whip up a tut, spread the load :P
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looks very good, and not as tedious as trying to do the whole thing within sketchup. How are you planning on texturing the whole thing? That is the only problem i see with your method, you will need to unwrap the UV model and texture it in order to finish the scene.
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My question is can I stay in skechup do I need max? Because I am very broke and max is VERY expensive...
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we'd have to texture them anyways, though with scetchup we'd have the original as a reference
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we'd have to texture them anyways, though with scetchup we'd have the original as a reference
right on, just wondering what kinda workflow you may have been planning on. I'm glad that this project is opening up, this is the last large hurdle to refinishing FF7 as a whole. I wish you guys luck, and i can chip in if you need any help texturing.
And mako, i assume you can still proceed in SU, just get a 3DS exporter so you can hand your model off to someone else once you are finished, and they can polish and unwrap it for finalizing.
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Right thanks all...I'll post skechup file soon I think my question is answered so I need to recreate the scene in 3D shape for shape...COOL. So NOT just creating a flat surface and splashing the photo on it...thanks guys I will try.
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this is great, cant wait for a scene to get done and get to test one out :)
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this is great, cant wait for a scene to get done and get to test one out :)
Yeah. That was one of the reasons I picked that screen. Simple shapes, minimal layers, minimal animations. Wanted to get a good test piece done to see how much time it took, and if it looked good enough.
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Uh, not sure if everyone realised, but this was the actually the point of doing this. You didn't all just think I wanted to do it in sketchup did you? *shudder*
Perhaps I didn't explain very well/ at all, i tend to get caught up in the moment sometimes and not check what I actually said. Anyway, whoever you are, Xenobond, you seem to have gotten the point, and what's more, you are instantly better than me at it. (I find this happens to me with about 99% of the things I do.) But what I want to know is, how the F@!# have you managed to get the camera EXACTLY right. And we're talking EXACTLY here. It looks EXACTLY like what i wanted to acheive with this project.
...I don't suppose you'd actually be willing to help out with this, would you? We could definately use you, no doubt.
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I would have to agree. I would also like to know how you got the camera angle correct?. Also Neocloudstrife you can stop shuddering I only have skechup I dont have 3ds (yet) so yeah I'll have to do most of my work there...But I am still trying modeling 3D is hard work (apparently not for xeno).
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Well, you don't have to learn modelling or get max at all. Getting the shapes and camera angles done properly in sketchup is a MASSIVE help for the modelling part.
In other news, here's a picture of junon so far.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/TESTJUNON-2.jpg
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Very nice on junon neo! keep it up.
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Another update, which shows a more "finished", but very unfinished junon. I still need to do a lot of work here, and then start texturing. Thank God i don't need to think too much about UV mapping or poly count optimisation, or this could take forever. anyway, take a look.
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/TESTJUNON-4.jpg
Now put the original (http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/junonF.jpg) in a different tab, and flick between the 2. Please tell me what has to be done differently, thanks (besides the lighting). Would really like some criticism. Oh, and ignore the second building for now, I know the door's not the right size or shape, it's still the old one.
Rember, it's nowhere near done yet. It's just a rough guess at what things might work and what might not
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Other then the piller in the back above the tunnel being a tad to large, it's perfect! :D
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Why is it higher thsn the original ? It seems your new background starts where the old doors finished ?
And I also have a question.
How will making new models improve the textures ? This might be a silly question but I was under the impression it was because the original backgrounds were too low a resolution that they're of such low quality. How is making models and reapplying those same textures on new modelled backgrounds through sketchup going to solve that issue ?
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How will making new models improve the textures ? This might be a silly question but I was under the impression it was because the original backgrounds were too low a resolution that they're of such low quality. How is making models and reapplying those same textures on new modelled backgrounds through sketchup going to solve that issue ?
Yeah, I thought this was the case as well. No matter how good the models are, if the textures are still low res, there isn't going to be much of an improvement.
Or does remaking background models make it easier to upgrade the textures?
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How will making new models improve the textures ? This might be a silly question but I was under the impression it was because the original backgrounds were too low a resolution that they're of such low quality. How is making models and reapplying those same textures on new modelled backgrounds through sketchup going to solve that issue ?
Yeah, I thought this was the case as well. No matter how good the models are, if the textures are still low res, there isn't going to be much of an improvement.
Or does remaking background models make it easier to upgrade the textures?
Of course we're going to use new textures here! The backgrounds are going to be completely re-done. Totally new! This paired with more modern rendering techniques and sleek lighting, and of course some photoshopping will create the effect I'm looking for. Now does everyone get it? :P
The reason we need sketchup and to model this entirely by hand is that apart from the walkmeshes, which arent much good, we don't actually have 3D models of the scenes, all we have are pictures, and It's going to be a lot harder painting these entirely by hand for me, and I seem to be the only one really interested in this thus far, so I'm doing it the way I can get it done fastest.
Why is it higher thsn the original ? It seems your new background starts where the old doors finished ?
I did say to ignore the second building, didn't I?
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Xeno what was the name of the file that u grabbed that background from. I want to see what your render looks like in game, well timu does but he owns a mac :roll:
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I understand the process now. Even more involved than I thought but I guess it has to be done ...
As for help, you might get a few more bites if you posted a thread in the Game Tweaking section. I'm unsure how many people actually look at other forums.
As for your second door, I thought you meant your second model, not the one already in-game.
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That room is mds7_w2
Here's the 4x version from where I left off over the weekend.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_03_thumb.jpg) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_03.jpg)
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That room is mds7_w2
Here's the 4x version from where I left off over the weekend.
Xeno would it be hard for you to give me another image with just the fence area? I want to try this out in the game and see how it looks
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I'm sure you can figure something out.
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I think backgrounds should be rendered out at 5x, as the high end resolution rihgt now i beleive is 1600x1200, 5 times the original 320/240.
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That is definitely something that needs looking into.
At what point does the resolution increase negatively impact performance & not make that much difference. As videos/other assets will also have to be made to this same scale.
Should find the largest background, and rescale it to see how it performs and how the animations perform (as well as the file size).
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I think that Timu's suggestion of 5x the old resolutions is a good one. The point at which a resolution increase's impact on performance is too great to justify making it is the point at which hardly anyone's monitor will be able to show the difference. As he said, 1200 vertical pixels is the highest of the "normal" monitor resolutions nowadays. There are higher resolution monitors out there, but very few people have them. 1920x1200 seems to be the standard for a "good" monitor ATM.
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With the age of the game and lack any major action during the scenes with the rendered backgrounds it would have little to no performance hit at all really, yet it may still cause some slight hitches on hardware from back when the game came out. .
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However, there is also the issue of file size: it might not be worth it to make huge textures that take even longer to make and to download, as well as taking up more hard drive space, if only 1% of the people using the patch will have a sufficiently high-res monitor to make use of it.
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well, I play ff7 at 1600x1200 (cant play widescreen :P) so for myself, i'd like that. Would multiple resolution downloads be an option? ex a 5x dload, and a 3 or 4x for smaller resolution monitors. Because, I agree that there is no point in having images higher resolution than the screen can show, but its also optimal to have the best that it /can/ show.
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I am currently redoing md8brdg, the scene right after you meet Aeris, when you're surrounded by Shinra soldiers directly before the cutscene that shows you jumping down onto a train.
The problem is the BG image, like all the other Bg's, is it's just a render of a 3d scene, moreover some of the "3d objects" are nothing but 2d textures for the rendering. See the "stairs" between the two light posts in md8brdg this means that the pictures own perspective doesn't make any sense because the length of brown curb to road never changes as it should angling around from the tan/dirt/concrete? path to the cobblestone road. Now in Aeris goto md8brdg2, notice that the stairway has disappeared.
While this doesn't make it impossible in anyway to remake I need permission to not recreate it exactly, either the stairway is going up to the cobble stone street and the back pathway needs to be dropped or it's lowering slightly to the cobblestone street. The perspective/camera shot will remain the same.
I know it's pedant, but you never know who's going to get pissed off by it looking slightly different and not understanding why, and it will because it currently makes no sense and in a high resolution render with modern gfx it'd stick out.
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Sorry, i cant' recall the scene in much detail, you mind uploading a pic of it?
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(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7092/md8brdg24bit.jpg)
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1586/56484237.jpg)
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Im not sure what you mean about the curbs, but i have a solution for your missing stairs - the tan area is lower in elevation than the cobblestone, and thus cloud goes up stairs before jumping to the train, and in the scene with the scaffold, the perspective hides the stairs behind/under the cobblestone. Make sense?
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Yeah, sounds good to me, just checking in before I devote a lot of time to it.
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Go for it! I look forward to some Wip scenes
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Watch out making the backgrounds very large. Palmer crashes on large images. Cant remember the exact size though.
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QQ can aali fix that?
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QQ can aali fix that?
He wrote the program so i assume he would be able to fix it. :-P
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I'm quite sure I already fixed it.. That may not have been in any release yet though. Does it happen in the latest version?
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I am using palmer 0.3a and it has that problem, is there another version out there?
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Alright, might want to give this 8x render a go, then. :D
Modeled the Crates out and applied a simple wood texture.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_04_thumb.jpg) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_04.jpg)
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Excellent, Xenobond! :-)
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for the final versions (once the scene is absolutely complete), it'd b best if you do several renders, (references the layers) so that the masks of the different layers are as good as possible. in this scene for example, the cage, and i think the edge of a box or two is on a layer.
EDIT: sorry for being picky, but some of your boxes are aligned the wrong way :P (in regards to the top planks)
EDIT2: oh yea, there is also an extra box at the bottom :P
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honestly, as long as the walkmeshes line up, you can probably get away with a lot.
Of course, when I see these attempts to make backgrounds, I always hear in the back of my mind....
"Oh do the Forgotten city next! Hurr hurr hurr... :P"
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The extra box does have to go though. U walk right through it.
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You guys are blowin my mind right now
especially you xenobond, oh my lanta that looks great
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Any progress Finaltide?
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Xenobond, You are amazing, the extra box does pose an issue. remove that and it's perfect (well close to. needs the chain link) I can wait to see this added to TA
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Alright, might want to give this 8x render a go, then. :D
Modeled the Crates out and applied a simple wood texture.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_04_thumb.jpg) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_04.jpg)
compliments for your work! The speed and accurancy of your work makes this actually seem feasible within our lifetime! I can't wait to see the next version of this
lee
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But, that extra box adds so much charm to the room.... whatever.
Forgot to remove that box as that was what I made all the others from.
Added the chain link fence, and already rendered out layer masks for the fence & foreground crate.
Rendering a test image out at full-res for testing in-game. Going to take a while. -,-
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_05.jpg)
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Xeno, you are god! what program do you use? Maybe my college has it, if rendering can be done on any PC i have a quad core. so if i can get that software i'd love to help :-D
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... :-o
Two Questions, Xenobond.
1. The boxes - is that a bump map, a texture, or have you actually modelled all the detail into those boxes?
2. How long did it take you to model an ENTIRE chain link fence!? And how did you do it!? Did you just copy and paste one link over and over and then vertex weld at the end?
But very well done, man. I feel pretty damn small now - my work's nothing compared to this.
Also, Hellbringer, The program looks like it's 3Ds max from the render window, but i'm not sure how much maya looks like max, so I can't say for sure.
Anyway, I've been really busy recently, but I've managed to get the windows done on the Junon buildings. I'm not gonna bother with a picture because frankly it doesn't really count as an update, and the pace I'm working at is laughable to say the least, compared with Xenobond's work.
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could someone please write me a short tutorial explaining the process of extracting a field background with what program to use, how to convert them into a compatable format for 3ds max and then how to implement them back into the game. i have the spare time to lend a hand in this (college isn't very demanding) and i would definately like to take a shot at it.
great work so far everyone
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Firstly, you'll need Aali's Palmer to extract the field backgrounds
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8450.0
Save the background as .png
From here, you can either use google sketchup to make the 2d picture 3d with the photomatch tool
or, recreate the entire scene in max like xenobond(this would be better methinks)
you bros should try to contact this bro right here
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58
he is a bro, dont get me wrong, but it seems as though he has already completed alot of the midgar-cityscape areas
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Save the background as .png
From here, you can either use google sketchup to make the 2d picture 3d with the photomatch tool
or, recreate the entire scene in max like xenobond(this would be better methinks)
To recreate the entire scene in max, you need to have already photomatch'd the images in sketchup to provide reference models and most importantly, a camera, so it's not an either/or thing - we're doing both, unless Xenobond is some sort of dark magician who can guess at camera angles, which to be honest he probably is :-P.
And I'm currently sending an email to that guy - perhaps he'll be willing to help, perhaps not.
EDIT: email sent! Let's hope we at least get a reply *crosses fingers*
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Amazing work xeno also i just realized that you hail from polycount :D
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A possible easy way to help with getting a camera in your scene to work from would be this-
1) Replace Cloud with a perfect cube
2) Take screenshot
3) Create cube in 3ds Max
4) Camera match the cube to the scene and you should have a good start on the camera.
In theory, at least. I used sketchup to provide me with the base shape of that room and the cage. Then brought it into max and did camera match.
Crates- just a bump map(normal map) on them, atm.
Chainlink- made a spline into a zig, rounded the edges and bent them so they'd overlap properly, then replicated them like mad. Then set the spline to be renderable with thickness and facecount settings.
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Just out of curiosity what are your computer specs and how long will that scene take to render?
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Core2 Duo @ 3.16 GHz
8GB Ram
Win7 64-bit
Though running under XP as Max 8 doesn't like to be installed on Win7. Will probably install Max2010 on there instead for rendering to take advantage of extra ram (although not as necessary for renders as it is more cpu intensive)
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I can use the 30-day Max trial and aid in rendering if you'd like. i have a phenom II X4 965 BE @ 3.8ghz and climbing
EDIT: oh, i also have win7 x64.i'm sure the 64 bit will help with rendering as well
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Got a Reply from that guy, turns out he's too busy with other stuff to help out, and he doesn't have the time to help. It's a shame, really.
Hiya,
Well, first I commend you and your team for undergoing a massive project and the quality of the models being working on, quite impressive stuff there.
But to be blunt, I'll have to politely decline your offer. I simply don't have the time to join such a project as most of my free time right now is being taken up by cosplay (I'm attempting Judge Gabranth this year so I'm gonna have my hands full).
So yeah, sorry I can't help but best of luck with your project, hope it all goes well!
-NoenGaruth
Anyway, I've got the junon buildings looking Very nice now. Just a little more work, and I'll show you all a screenshot.
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Have done some experiments last night and today and palmer doesnt like 4x the res. So we need to keep it below that for now, Xeno is it going to be difficult to have different resolutions or is it just a matter of rerendering the scene for each different resolution?
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Oh good ol' noen, he hasn't worked on his midgar model in ages, leastways not in any heavy loads, but as he says, were without him on this one unfortunately, pity, he makes great environment models.
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Have done some experiments last night and today and palmer doesnt like 4x the res. So we need to keep it below that for now, Xeno is it going to be difficult to have different resolutions or is it just a matter of rerendering the scene for each different resolution?
Can you provide the images you used to trigger this problem? I assume it is the same crash you were talking about earlier.
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Isn't it possible to edit the waklmeshes within a scene?
Is it simply not possible or has no one figured out how to yet?
honestly, as long as the walkmeshes line up, you can probably get away with a lot.
Of course, when I see these attempts to make backgrounds, I always hear in the back of my mind....
"Oh do the Forgotten city next! Hurr hurr hurr... :P"
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I just had an idea. I was watching an episode of numbers and they briefly talked about the predictive algorithm used in the police image enhancements on still frames of security cameras.
I was wondering if anyone knows of similar software and if they've tried it on these backgrounds. That seems the most feasible and realistic way to get this done: just to re render them.
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Fractals works quite nicely. But IIRC, Palmer has trouble accepting them for some reason
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I just had an idea. I was watching an episode of numbers and they briefly talked about the predictive algorithm used in the police image enhancements on still frames of security cameras.
I was wondering if anyone knows of similar software and if they've tried it on these backgrounds. That seems the most feasible and realistic way to get this done: just to re render them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk
Never believe what you watch on TV.
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A background that i resized to 1280x1600. Just a basic resize for testing purposes. Crashes palmer at this size.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8UVTZP3B (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8UVTZP3B)
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Okay, 0.3b crashes or behaves badly on anything larger than original size. I have fixed this on my end and I will make a 0.4b release soon.
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Okay, 0.3b crashes or behaves badly on anything larger than original size. I have fixed this on my end and I will make a 0.4b release soon.
Excellent news. Thanks Aali!
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Aali you are my hero :-D
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Aali you are my hero :-D
He should be everyones hero. Without all his hard work the avalanche mod would not exist along with many others. Thank you from all the members of Team Avalanche Aali :-D
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Well i figured i should get the ball rolling a bit since things are a bit slow. I am trying to redo a scene right now, here is a bit of what i have done. Check it out. Status updates from everyone else would be nice
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4009/mayav.png) (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/mayav.png/)
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lookin nice sl, Are you using sketchup and a 3d program? Or just sketchup?
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Maya
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Sorry about the whole "not updating in forever" thing. I've been really busy with school work and stuff, and on top of that, FFVIII just came out on PSN and I forgot how awesome that game actually is if you sit down and play it properly :P
anyway, nice to see some progress is happening here without me, small as it may be. I can't really tell yet which scene it is though, probably because I haven't played FF7 in a long while. If memory serves me correctly though, I think it's the inside of the midgar train, the cargo carriage. Am I right?
At any rate, keep up the good work :wink:
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Here's my latest and greatest :P
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2314/picture212.png)
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Here's my latest and greatest :P
oo! oo! I know! That's the slums materia shop!
Looks good, Timu!
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yea... I've gotta finish my portfolio for university application in like,... a week so no updates for awhile :P
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Yeah it is the train section where cloud makes his entrance.
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Moar updates
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5977/maya.png) (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/maya.png/)
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Lookin very nice! Lets see some doors!
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Lookin very nice! Lets see some doors!
(http://www.spdoors.com/images/doors.jpg)
(http://img2.timeinc.net/toh/i/a/exteriors/front-doors-00.jpg)
(http://www.meojbiz.com/home/appstorage/product/0000000342/pvc%20door.jpg)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/adaptiveblue_img/music/very_best_of_doors/the_doors)
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Lookin very nice! Lets see some doors!
some doors
Nonono, I think this is what timu meant:
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/1117/doors.png)
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Thx covarr, at least SOMEONE understands me :P
P.S.
Nice one bosola
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No no, like this.
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9563/doordoordoor.png)
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Uhm... ???
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Got an update for you guys...actually i'm not really sure if it can be called an update to be honest, last time i posted an update, progress was at pretty much the same stage. But I have added windows now. Also everything is a lot more perfected than it was before.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/Test-3.jpg)
I know the last 2 buildings arent right, I just copied the second one to show what it'll eventually look like
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Looks great man! Keep up the grat work!
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Fun stuff looks like, a question however, I assume these are all custom models? IE basic scene made up from the scene with each building and object uniquely defined?
Just curious because that is a lot of work. Not to say there is an 'easy better way'. Just thinking about it makes me twitch a bit.
I assume you are all using different modelers? Do you have a unified output? (IE a single output format for the models).
Also have any of you seen this image (http://news.povray.org/*/attachment/%3C4b86f964%40news.povray.org%3E/reentry.jpg)?
Cyb
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Model formats arn't much an issue, if anything it'll bt getting the lighting and textures to match between artists.
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Model formats arn't much an issue, if anything it'll bt getting the lighting and textures to match between artists.
Have you considered a 'style' method? IE each artist has a section of the game and uses a particular style for all objects within that part?
I think the Shinra Mansion would be a lot of fun to work on for example.
However tempus fugit I have car motors to control
Cyb
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WOW awesome!!!! :o
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IE each artist has a section of the game and uses a particular style for all objects within that part?
Thats probably a good approach! Ultimately we just want it to match the original game in terms of style, but splitting people by section is probably a good idea, at least sections that are similar. For example not all of midgar is the same. The inside of HQ is highly different from the slums, etc. So far Xenobond and I each have a scene frmo sector 7 slums, but apart from that I think we'll manage.
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IE each artist has a section of the game and uses a particular style for all objects within that part?
Thats probably a good approach! Ultimately we just want it to match the original game in terms of style, but splitting people by section is probably a good idea, at least sections that are similar. For example not all of midgar is the same. The inside of HQ is highly different from the slums, etc. So far Xenobond and I each have a scene frmo sector 7 slums, but apart from that I think we'll manage.
Yeah. Taking all the easy stuff
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hey, start small! :P
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Fun times start once it comes down to the Forgotten Capital.
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You might see someone attempt that in 10 years or so at the rate we are going
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I only took that training room because it would be the easiest to re-create. Also as a test case to see what is the best resolution multiplier to use on these, and if they'll even work at those resolutions. Since it was also such a simple scene *cough*, I'll probably just put the whole thing up to help others that are interested and able to help.
Maybe I'll put some work into it this weekend. I've only got a couple props and then the gate to make. Then I can add some clutter around the edges of the room. It's just too even and clean for something in the 'slums'.
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That message wasn't really directed at you. More for timu who i asked for help aligning the camera for the scene he is doing and he decided that he would just do the whole thing himself
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I know. I was mostly replying to what timu had mentioned. I wasn't planning on doing any more of the sector 7 slums. At some point when I get Tifa done I'll probably hit up one of the more organic areas (maybe one that has animations). Just need to get to the point where it actually works properly and we can easily test it.
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Well i can test for functionality right now, just not resolutions. But since everything will be rendered we can always change the render size when palmer is able to handle larger files.
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In that case i guess i'll take care of the slums :P
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Does this mean I have to do Junon in it's entirety!?
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Does this mean I have to do Junon in it's entirety!?
Yes, yes it does. Have fun :D
edit: Hmm i guess that means i have to do the inside of the train. Not too bad i suppose. Someone else will be texturing it though. I are not good at that sort of thing.
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Does this mean I have to do Junon in it's entirety!?
lol, i experienced a similar feeling when i began WMRP!
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Someone else will be texturing it though. I are not good at that sort of thing.
If you aren't texturing, you at least have to UV the thing :P. It'll save the texturer over 9000 hours of time (It's really, really tedious IMO. moreso than actually modelling, I'm dreading UV'ing the Junon buildings :'().
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I dont know UV mapping. And from the way you make it sound im not sure if i want to learn lol
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I dont know UV mapping. And from the way you make it sound im not sure if i want to learn lol
Well, I've never succesfully unwrapped a models UV's either, but I'm still gonna give it a go. You don't learn unless you try ;)
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Note the 'want to learn' in my previous post.
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I dont know UV mapping. And from the way you make it sound im not sure if i want to learn lol
Well, I've never succesfully unwrapped a models UV's either, but I'm still gonna give it a go. You don't learn unless you try ;)
You are using Maya correct?
This is one thing I dislike about most modelers is the need to use texture maps instead of generated maps.
By a generated map I mean such as you would use in POV ray ...
example need a grainy stone texture? You can make it in POV. The nice thing is you can apply it over a huge area and randomize the texture per brick for example. Then you can define your walls using a simple macro (IE you have a brick wall macro) and add the base matrix of data. Add window treatment information to insert at proper locations. IT sounds tedious but if you compare it to manipulating a UV map to stick onto a surface it's childs play by comparison. Mostly because it's just programming once you have the base set of macros done everything almost completely self generates based on that.
I've hated UV mapping since Quake (1 that is Doom didn't have UV mapping on models).
Although POVray supports UV mapping very few people use it because it's tedious and difficult. It's much easier to spontaneously create the surface color affects for objects than to paste them on. In addition you can tweak the way light reflects off surfaces with relative ease (randomly or what have you).
The big problem with such an approach admittedly is no one uses things like POV for such things, still you can get with a very simple scene extremely impressive results without a huge effort.
The biggest drawback I've noticed is you have to understand PROGRAMMING to use POV effectively. :D
That I have no problem with but other people I am certain would. I may take a look at Shinra mansion. Is there a particular output format you gents/ladies using?
Cyb
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You are using Maya correct?
Actually no, I use 3Dsmax. but from what I understand, POV ray is a seperate program, right?
This is one thing I dislike about most modelers is the need to use texture maps instead of generated maps.
By a generated map I mean such as you would use in POV ray ...
example need a grainy stone texture? You can make it in POV. The nice thing is you can apply it over a huge area and randomize the texture per brick for example. Then you can define your walls using a simple macro (IE you have a brick wall macro) and add the base matrix of data. Add window treatment information to insert at proper locations. IT sounds tedious but if you compare it to manipulating a UV map to stick onto a surface it's childs play by comparison. Mostly because it's just programming once you have the base set of macros done everything almost completely self generates based on that.
I've hated UV mapping since Quake (1 that is Doom didn't have UV mapping on models).
Although POVray supports UV mapping very few people use it because it's tedious and difficult. It's much easier to spontaneously create the surface color affects for objects than to paste them on. In addition you can tweak the way light reflects off surfaces with relative ease (randomly or what have you).
The big problem with such an approach admittedly is no one uses things like POV for such things, still you can get with a very simple scene extremely impressive results without a huge effort.
The biggest drawback I've noticed is you have to understand PROGRAMMING to use POV effectively. :D
I'm definately for this idea. I agree it would be a lot simpler than manually making textures Although, I hardly know any programming at all, so this could be a problem for me.
I may take a look at Shinra mansion. Is there a particular output format you gents/ladies using?
Cyb
None, just as long as you can render it, it shouldn't matter at all. If you plan to send it to people, make sure it supports cameras, and that's all really. .3DS is a good one
EDIT:
Here's an image of junon right now. Just need to customize those last two buildings on the left and then I can start working properly on the smaller, less important things in the scene
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/ModellingJunon.jpg
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see, its projects like this that make me wish I could actually do the art side of this stuff. Rather than just use the stuff and understand how it works (not that I could do the coding side either).
Oh well. I also wish I could use this efficiently (EeePC + OpenGL = no happy, so I've gotta not use things like the new spells)
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Oh well. I also wish I could use this efficiently (EeePC + OpenGL = no happy, so I've gotta not use things like the new spells)
Well I guess we could also release these images in the original resolution, but then that's pretty pointless since Square's are probably much better at that resolution anyway.
EDIT:
Got a question to ask everyone which may help me finish junon quicker.
This is how I currently have junon mapped out in my head. (http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/Thought.jpg) Basically 7 "streets" on each side. What i'm wondering is if each street is just one row of 5 buildings (one of which is slightly smaller than the rest), if that made any sense at all. The reason I ask is that there seems to be a lot of inconsistencies with junon, and I can't really tell. From Here (http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/propaganda/junon.jpg) and Here (http://pspmedia.ign.com/psp/image/article/860/860515/crisis-core-final-fantasy-vii-20080318013003068_640w.jpg), it looks like the buildings are more random, and there are more than five on each side. But from Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oECMDimi8os&feature=related), Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VvYboYjtA), and the field images, it looks like there are only five on each street, and that they're a lot more uniform.
I'm just thinking ahead since once I finish modelling this one scene, I'll have to move on to Junon on a larger scale.
Also, I forsee a problem. Copying my nearly finished Junon street 14 times and viewing it realtime puts a massive strain on my laptop. Then I tried a (very simple i.e no lighting at all) render just to see what would happen, and now Max isn't responding. Thank God I saved it, since I knew it would happen. Am I going to have to make a lower poly version of the streets as well, so that I can render scenes like This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8VvYboYjtA) without it taking 4 years?
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Neo, if you send the files to me i can render it (might need to be told what settings to use) have a phenom 2 x4 and two gpus
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@ cybrman, I think the format we'll use when sharing scenes is .fbx or fbox er whatever its called, kinda autodesks scene format, works between max n maya i beleive, and i think includes cameras and even anims too. I'd love to see yer work on shinra mansion. no cinematics for you to render :P.
Concerning materials, i dunno bout POVray, I'll look into it, but it sounds like custom coded procedural textures. I've played with procedural textures in blender, n they're kinda messy but the concept is very usefull for this kind of work. I'm learning maya as we speak, and when i get to the chapters on material n stuff i'll be sure to share. (animation is next, n i think materials are some time after that, srry peeps, but going in order).
@neocloud, Go with the info available in ff7, as every peice of the compilation changes how things look :P. If you followed Noen's making of midgar, you'll notice how he went through a bunch of references, and they were all different, every version of midgar changes the scale, for the sake of wtv. I'd go with 5 even buildings. Its a shinra structure, n between midgar and junon they're fairly simmetrical. (8 identical reactors, junon is very simmetrical). plus in CC they have all the buildings at random heights, but that would mess up the system of the armor plates flying up to cover them, I'd think they've make it easy on themselves to mass produce those shields, and have them all the same :P. As to the viewing 14 copies, were they wireframe? in maya at least you can choose which objects are shown shaded, solid, or wireframe.
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Oh well. I also wish I could use this efficiently (EeePC + OpenGL = no happy, so I've gotta not use things like the new spells)
Well I guess we could also release these images in the original resolution, but then that's pretty pointless since Square's are probably much better at that resolution anyway.
To be perfectly honest, the only changes I really like, are the new font (if only my computer rendered them properly, lines pop up all over them), and the new materia. simple cosmetic stuff, you know. The new spells I can actually deal without, the WMRP is a little too heavy for my graphics card. It'll run, but it takes forever to load. Just stuff like that, you know?
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Oh well. I also wish I could use this efficiently (EeePC + OpenGL = no happy, so I've gotta not use things like the new spells)
Well I guess we could also release these images in the original resolution, but then that's pretty pointless since Square's are probably much better at that resolution anyway.
To be perfectly honest, the only changes I really like, are the new font (if only my computer rendered them properly, lines pop up all over them), and the new materia. simple cosmetic stuff, you know. The new spells I can actually deal without, the WMRP is a little too heavy for my graphics card. It'll run, but it takes forever to load. Just stuff like that, you know?
I don't really understand the relevance of this post. If you do not like parts of the overhaul don't use them. Pretty simple solution.
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Lookin very nice! Lets see some doors!
Doors:
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2514/maya3.png) (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/maya3.png/)
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Looking great SL. keep up the amazing work :D
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Latest images
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/Untitled-28.jpg)
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/Test-4.jpg)
Buildings are 100% done now, I'll tweak them a little But I think they look ok for now.
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Awesome job Neo! :D
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holy mother of god :o
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now start detailing other things, like the street/sidewalk
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WOW this is great! Awesome Work! :-D
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There you go again making my stuff look like crap
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It's not crap SL.
If you want i can try and model something and show it haha
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Heh i was just jokin, I think you should model something though. Practice
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Seriously Hellbringer, besides you always brag about how awesome your computer is.
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Seriously Hellbringer, besides you always brag about how awesome your computer is.
Yeah, listen to the lady.
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Update:
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1691/trainx.png) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/trainx.png/)
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Woah both Junon and the train wagon looks pretty awesome. As a fellow modeler if you want I could have a go on another background. This is really inspiring :D If someone could give me not a such pain in the ass background I could try model it and texture it :wink:
Btw sl1982, lower the spec value on the material. And change the lamp color, that looks like a perfect clean supernova or blue sun. And because of the materials spec value. The rusty wagon looks like a space station.
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Yeah it is pretty much all experimenting right now. This is the first time i have modelled anything
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Woah both Junon and the train wagon looks pretty awesome. As a fellow modeler if you want I could have a go on another background. This is really inspiring :D If someone could give me not a such pain in the ass background I could try model it and texture it :wink:
Btw sl1982, lower the spec value on the material. And change the lamp color, that looks like a perfect clean supernova or blue sun. And because of the materials spec value. The rusty wagon looks like a space station.
What type of scene would you like to do? Preferably near the beginning of the game
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Update:
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1691/trainx.png) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/trainx.png/)
Holy crap :-o! I'm hardware and tech support guy so it always impresses me when I see what you guys can do with graphics!
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I didn't even know their was a pure pc copy(besides emulator) of FF7... seeing the stuff you guys are doing is amazing though. Like everyone else I always wanted a remake and square refuses to do it, even after teasing us with a software test for ps2 graphics way back in the day with the opening intro redone. So its nice to see that a remake somewhat is happening.
Anyway, this looks amazing and I wish you luck, your doing a great job.
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here's my latest n greatest
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5384/picture230w.png)
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Doesn't look too bad timu, but you gotta work on the lightening. Ok so can someone extract a background? You should put some of them. So people can choose a new one when they are finished. Maybe we could remake them all! We are getting closer to a FFVII remake people :D
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Doesn't look too bad timu, but you gotta work on the lightening. Ok so can someone extract a background? You should put some of them. So people can choose a new one when they are finished. Maybe we could remake them all! We are getting closer to a FFVII remake people :D
Yea i just started using maya recently, n dont quite know my way around. btw, can you post or link some of your work (just wanna see what you're capable of)
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(http://i48.tinypic.com/33at4x2.png)
So can you upload one of those backgrounds ;)
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I dont actually have ff7 installed thus, no grabbing them from me. i'm curious, is that max, or blender 2.5
EDIT:
that T-rex looks awfully familiar....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUSJ-djQGas
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Ohai HemoorInDisguiseII!
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LOL! [/hijackthread]
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That looks a lot like my t rex. But it isn't, I haven't even started on the textures yet. So can anyone upload one of those backgrounds? :D
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That looks a lot like my t rex. But it isn't, I haven't even started on the textures yet. So can anyone upload one of those backgrounds? :D
nice try hermy, I can smell a troll miles away.
On that note, your other account is still active, you can use that one :P
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Hi Herbie. Bye Herbie.
You have an active account. Use it, or stay away.
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LOL, I'm starting to see Hermie as a reoccurring bad guy that keeps on failing terribly. Think team rocket. :P
On another note, @ sl: that's some pretty epic skillz you got if this is the first thing you've modeled. :o Did you jump right into making the train background or you got a little practice on other random objects before?
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LOL, I'm starting to see Hermie as a reoccurring bad guy that keeps on failing terribly. Think team rocket. :P
On another note, @ sl: that's some pretty epic skillz you got if this is the first thing you've modeled. :o Did you jump right into making the train background or you got a little practice on other random objects before?
Nope, i like to jump in head first.
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Romah backwards is hamor, which is not too dissimilar from hermoor. Coincidence?
Okay, maybe.
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Romah backwards is hamor, which is not too dissimilar from hermoor. Coincidence?
Okay, maybe.
I THINK NOT!
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Back on topic,
the materia shop model is done, now you'll all have to be patient as i learn how to light and texture in maya :P
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5797/picture232.png)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/5209/full.png)
and here's the original for comparison.
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Looks awesome! Good work. :D
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Good job timu. Learn up some materials so you can show me how it works.
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If no one else does it in the meantime, I'll eventually try the Sector 1 train platform.
This was just a first attempt to see what I could do in Sketchup:
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6108/traintest2.png)
This one is scrapped since it's just a test (perspective is off, bars are only a texture, negligible work on textures). I've started a proper one but it's on hold until I learn more about how to use Sketchup and finish a side project of mine.
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SL wanted me to do upper midgar, i think largely cuz i'll be animating the fmvs, but feel free to get some stuff done, I've found yer better off just skipping sketchup entirely though :P Its more trouble than its worth. Fix the focal length of yer 3d camera in whatever app you're using and just align the scene using the grid.
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Yeah, to be honest i really don't like the way sketchup works. It was much easier for me to align the camera in maya.
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Look
at
that
original...
It'll take ages to texture that...
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which original?
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Alot of it wont be that bad as long as you model the scene well enough. Some of the little details in the scene if they are rendered as 3d objects instead of texture slapped on a flat plane will help out. For example look at my train scene. All the walls are modeled instead of flat planes. This makes texturing not as bad as you would think. (I think, someone feel free to correct me if this is not the case)
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Back on topic,
the materia shop model is done, now you'll all have to be patient as i learn how to light and texture in maya :P
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5797/picture232.png)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/5209/full.png)
and here's the original for comparison.
Where did you get that "original" from? The game one looks like crap compared with that one.
PS: Excellent work! :o Very similar indeed except on the wood on the wall. :lol:
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The original is ripped frmo the game if im' not mistaken, as to the wood, whats wrong with it?
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The original is ripped frmo the game if im' not mistaken, as to the wood, whats wrong with it?
Really? The game one looks *SO BLURRY* to say the least compared to that one here. :P
Oh, the wood is fine! But I spent some time admiring his work and noticed the wood on the wall is not the exact same think on the picture and on the model, that's all. :P
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The original is ripped frmo the game if im' not mistaken, as to the wood, whats wrong with it?
Really? The game one looks *SO BLURRY* to say the least compared to that one here. :P
Oh, the wood is fine! But I spent some time admiring his work and noticed the wood on the wall is not the exact same think on the picture and on the model, that's all. :P
Keep in mind, in the original you don't see the whole thing at once in game, and what you do see is way zoomed in. That's what makes it look blurry. All of the originals actually look quite nice at small sizes.
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If we can get the textures right it will actually look better at a higher res then it would with the original backgrounds in the original res in game haha
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To help lighten the load, maybe you guys can split into "modeling" and "textureing" teams?
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To help lighten the load, maybe you guys can split into "modeling" and "textureing" teams?
That might be a good idea, or there may be quite the difference in the way the scene's look due to different texture artists.
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the only problem i forsee is our extreme lack of texture artists.
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the only problem i forsee is our extreme lack of texture artists.
We'll, there's a very good one that i'm sure would like to do just that: Millenia !!
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Mil has his hands pretty full already, he's doing the weapons.
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Mil has his hands pretty full already, he's doing the weapons.
Yeah, but he said he likes to texture stuff way more than making stuff models. :P
Got to admit his wep's are pretty cool tho. :-D
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What I was getting at is that rusty wall, those signs with bubble letters, and the general lack of patterns among the textures. I'm no texture artist but that seems like a task even with the modeled scene.
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I started modeling Costa del sol. It was only for training with Maya but I see I can use it to make un background with that tool 8)
here is a pic
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/066/0/7/Cosa_del_Sol_3D_v_4_by_Harro_Y.png
and sorry for my poor english :-D
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wooooow, nice! :-o
do you plan on texturing it?
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I started modeling Costa del sol. It was only for training with Maya but I see I can use it to make un background with that tool 8)
here is a pic
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/066/0/7/Cosa_del_Sol_3D_v_4_by_Harro_Y.png
and sorry for my poor english :-D
That looks wonderful! I'm not sure how it scales with the original, so we'll match it up with the original background, make some adjustments, and get it textured, if you'd like to offer your work of course.
My compliments to a job well done!
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thank you ;D
but I'm just a newbie, there is only 1 month I started learning Maya . And I can't texture now, I read some tutorial about texturing in Maya but it's hard for me. But I'll try to understand :)
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well wory about the mesh first, i'll try n get you the original background soon, what you do is go into a perspective camera, and set is as the background image. You usually need to mess with yer focal length, and try to align yer model to the scene (when we start from scratch we use the grid). Hopefully yer proportions are similar, but if not, then you'll need to adjust the mesh. There will be lotsa trouble if the scene doesnt lign up with the walkmesh.
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wow Harro! fantastic job. you said in a month? Did you have prier 3d experience?
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here you go harro
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1897/costadelsol.png
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Thank you timu sumisu , I have already this image (and other background from FF7) I needed that to model. But it's not finished, I have a lot of think to do it's just a begining.
hellbringer616 : No I never use un 3D software before, it's the first time. I found a tutorial in french so I decided to learn and 1 week after, I began to model Costa del Sol as a first training.
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Are you interested in contributing to our project?
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My english is not so good, so I don't understand everything. what's the project? replace background of FF7?
And considering I'm just a new user of Maya (and 3d software in general) , I think that my models are not the cleanest :-D from the outside it looks good but if you see that with a 3d Software there is a lot of shit :-D
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this particular portion of our work involves remaking the backgrounds, and then reinserting them into the game, in effect: making high rez backgrounds. so for example, you line the camera up right in your scene, so it matches the original just right, render it at a fairly high resolution, and we stick it in the game, replacing the old one.
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Even if it does not look good as a 3d scene the only thing we are concerned with is the final render.
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Even if it does not look good as a 3d scene the only thing we are concerned with is the final render.
Oh good, so if the render is good, we can use it. Good idea. But I can't texture for the moment, I'm still learning :-\
But the project interests me :) I'll keep you informed when I 'll upgrade my Cost de Sol
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http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=255969 (http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=255969)
Not sure if ya'll would be interested in borrowing from someone else's take on the Seventh Heaven bar. There are also one or two others on that site if you are in fact interested.
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Not acurate enough for my taste, but feel free to send these brothers over, we need more arms :P
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Anyone tried these in-game yet, even untextured? Or is it not possible to put high res background pics in ff7 yet?
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we have, and they work :D, SL stuck the tutorial box room that xenobond is working on in game, n it workd just fine
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we have, and they work :D, SL stuck the tutorial box room that xenobond is working on in game, n it workd just fine
OoooOOOooh, may'st thou provide a screenie?
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(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8594/56721288.jpg)
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(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8594/56721288.jpg)
Awesome! What resolution is that?
What resolution are you guys planning for the final renders?
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i dont know what that one was at exactly, around 1000x by something, it was on a laptop, i'd like to make them at 5x original, to play at 1600x1200 (i think the biggest ppl play ff7 at)
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My only crit would be that the mesh is a bit think.
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GL with that. I'm shooting for 4x max. That is, if we can successfully import a larger sized background into the game. I think that one had to be scaled down to 2x original size to get it going.
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the size issue has since been fixed afaik, and why not 5x? other than xtra render time?
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Do it too big and it could look bad on lower screen resolutions.
Guess it's a case of trying it and finding out, R&D folks, R&D.
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i think SL was up for having dls at different resolutions
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i think SL was up for having dls at different resolutions
The low res textures just cause graphical problems with downscaling, I'm quite positive that something along the order of 90% (a vast majority) of people use the high res ones even if they run the game at 1280x960 or something.
I'd like to think that a resolution close to 1080p would be ideal. I think that'd be... 4.5x the original? 1440x1080
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i think SL was up for having dls at different resolutions
The low res textures just cause graphical problems with downscaling, I'm quite positive that something along the order of 90% (a vast majority) of people use the high res ones even if they run the game at 1280x960 or something.
I'd like to think that a resolution close to 1080p would be ideal. I think that'd be... 4.5x the original? 1440x1080
Just make 3 releases:
2x, 3x and 4x, this way no matter what kind of computer you have, you'll be able to run the game perfectly fine.
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That is probably overkill. As it is right now the 2 different releases are at 2x and 4x the original res. But with aali's new driver the scaling is supposed to be improved so the different resolutions may be pointless now. Time for someone to experiment (not me, I am busy :P .)
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improved scaling you say? How so?
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I have no idea, go look at the changelog for the new driver. Or ask aali. Damn you making me waste my epic post.
BOOBIES
That is all.
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:D
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(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6742/traine.png) (http://img340.imageshack.us/i/traine.png/)
4x the original res
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Nice! Never understood why Jessie is just staring at the boxes though...
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Not much left to finish model and texture.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_07.jpg)
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Xenobond, i love you -gets on one knee-
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Very good indeed. How long did it take just texturing?
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I came so hard I almost bled to death.
Would like to see ingame :-*
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Holy crap. Do you want to texture my scene?
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Xenobond , good job xenobond, I would like to texture like you :-\
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Great job, guys!
Keep it up! You have done together in few weeks what noone could do in years!
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Not much left to finish model and texture.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1352739/ff7/training_room_07.jpg)
I'm quite impressed, but the high amount of detail and contrast in those textures causes it to feel really busy.
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I loveee itttt!!!
Only criticisms: that vent and the walls seem bland in contrast to the rest of the textures. I'm not sure if you're going to touch those or not because you said "not much" meaning "some" but I think even a basic texture would go a long ways for the wall.
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What is the sign on the door supposed to be?
Only criticisms: that vent and the walls seem bland in contrast to the rest of the textures. I'm not sure if you're going to touch those or not because you said "not much" meaning "some" but I think even a basic texture would go a long ways for the wall.
I don't think those are textured at all yet...
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Not they aren't. just rendered to show
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Ah, I was just wondering if he was just going to leave the sheet metal that matte gray. Well then it looks :o amazing
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Well, I agree with Covarr.
While it is really nice texturing work, it is heavy on the eye, because of the very grainy floor. I guess this should be a little darker and less.. how can I say...well busy, as Covarr said.
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Well, I agree with Covarr.
While it is really nice texturing work, it is heavy on the eye, because of the very grainy floor. I guess this should be a little darker and less.. how can I say...well busy, as Covarr said.
Yeah, I thought the same but I kept quiet about it ;D
Backgrounds that are too noisy will bother the player after a while. They may also take attention away from the foreground. Also, I imagine that they take longer to make. :D
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Almost done as much as i am planning to do.
(http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/5977/maya.th.png) (http://img686.imageshack.us/i/maya.png/)
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wow!! :o
It's perfect!! When you finish the project? because looks very good.
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This is actually what I dreamed when I started talking about remaking the backgrounds: a community effort.
There is a lot of talent here, guys. Thank you very much for using it towards a goal I have at heart!
Keep it up!
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Almost done as much as i am planning to do.
(http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/5977/maya.th.png) (http://img686.imageshack.us/i/maya.png/)
Ooooh, that's looking quite nice. Obviously, it needs to be roughed up a little (Midgar trains aren't in very good condition), but that can be done when everything is finally textured (I think).
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Oh my wow. I don't remember what fills those white spaces? Does the game run an animation behind it?
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Nah it has some stuff back there buck i cant make out what it is so i left it out.
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(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2514/maya3.png) (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/maya3.png/)
Modelling done. If someone wants to take up the challenge of texturing it and figuring out the lighting a bit better let me know. Now back to ff13
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work on the back wall ><
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work on the back wall ><
Go away, it can be textured.
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Fantastic job, looks great.
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Slightly off topic but:
http://thenextweb.com/lifehacks/2010/03/24/blow-sneak-peak-photoshop-5/
This just blew my everlovin mind out of the water. I think if someone bothers to buy this they'd have the opportunity to rework the original images with decent final products.
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Slightly off topic but:
http://thenextweb.com/lifehacks/2010/03/24/blow-sneak-peak-photoshop-5/
This just blew my everlovin mind out of the water. I think if someone bothers to buy this they'd have the opportunity to rework the original images with decent final products.
I don't see how content-aware fill would help improve the originals?
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I'm still on the fence on whether to believe this vid. There are some pretty amazing statistical algorithms out there but the video doesn't seem too incredibly believable. We'll have to wait for CS5 I guess.
The reason I found it pertinent is because upscaling and using fractals tends to produce blurry images, but using this type of technique on the image multiple times holds the hope for decent restoration. Of course it won't ever be as good as remodelling and retexturing everything. I'm just looking to find a way to save the artists a ten thousand hour job. ;D
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I've seen this "smart fill" displayed with a different program a year or so ago. So it's legit. The photoshop guys are just now catching up.
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Back on topic guys
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Just for an idea of what you guys have to do - around how many backgrounds are there in the game exactly?
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Around 700
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Around 700
Really? It's that many?
Does that include scenes with very similar backgrounds or are there 700 completely different backgrounds in the game?
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Not too sure. I havn't looked at all of them. But there are quite a few.
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well hopefully with the new CS5 photoshop things will be easier for ya guys that have it 8-) at least for the battle scenes Id say its best to start with the "achievable goals" I think there is only 100 battle scenes or so. ;D But ya do as ya like If i were experienced enough I would for sure help ya out with this.
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just out curiosity, how are you guys gonna do the backgrounds with animations in them, would you just leave a space where they take place and the game loads them in separately? Oh and i'm hoping to contribute soon, but blender can be a bitch!!
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Palmer takes into account the animations. Just need to modify a few things in the renders and do a bit of photoshop magic and the animations work. I have the door closed and opened on the train scene.
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I'll probably use After Effects for some of the effects'y things on the BGs, like smoke animation, since that's probably the best way to do it short of hand-painting every frame in photoshop
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Around 700
Really? It's that many?
Does that include scenes with very similar backgrounds or are there 700 completely different backgrounds in the game?
This is absolutely excellent. Thank you so much for doing this guys.
*applause*
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Yeah 700 sounds like a lot but of course they arent all unique.
Dont think people are gonna have to make 700 different areas.
You build one model and render a bunch different angles.
Of course the game does have a lot of interior areas..(caves, houses.. etc) which are unique.
But still the same process.
Most of the work goes into making a good high quality model of the area and
the renders take a hell of a lot less time to setup after the model is completed.
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as long as the major traveled areas get done, i think the project will be heading in the right direction. Focus on the opening cine to grab people attention, then hit all of the major town centers (Kalm, Rocket Town, Cosmo, etc...) that way you get a nice sample in the largest dose. Fact is, many areas are only visited once and could be done last (or not even at all) and no one would realy mind.
No sense in painting the back of the stair case, right?
just my 2 cents.
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as long as the major traveled areas get done, i think the project will be heading in the right direction. Focus on the opening cine to grab people attention, then hit all of the major town centers (Kalm, Rocket Town, Cosmo, etc...) that way you get a nice sample in the largest dose. Fact is, many areas are only visited once and could be done last (or not even at all) and no one would realy mind.
No sense in painting the back of the stair case, right?
just my 2 cents.
That's a really good point. I suppose a good priority list would be:
1. Places that need to be visited repeatedly during the story.
2. Places that need to be visited once during the story.
3. Places that don't need to be visited during the story.
I wonder what the most visited field screen is? The bridge of the Highwind probably.
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as long as the major traveled areas get done, i think the project will be heading in the right direction. Focus on the opening cine to grab people attention, then hit all of the major town centers (Kalm, Rocket Town, Cosmo, etc...) that way you get a nice sample in the largest dose. Fact is, many areas are only visited once and could be done last (or not even at all) and no one would realy mind.
No sense in painting the back of the stair case, right?
just my 2 cents.
That's a really good point. I suppose a good priority list would be:
1. Places that need to be visited repeatedly during the story.
2. Places that need to be visited once during the story.
3. Places that don't need to be visited during the story.
I wonder what the most visited field screen is? The bridge of the Highwind probably.
The most visited scene is the opening train platform. Even if you hate the game and only played it once, you have seen it.
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The most visited scene is the opening train platform. Even if you hate the game and only played it once, you have seen it.
I'm working on that one :P
P.S. the camera is most difficult to lign up.
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I'd say the most important thing would be to get the first section of the game done completely.
If you get, say, everything up to Cloud meeting Aeris done, or even everything from the Reactor 1 mission done, you'll be able to play a significant amount of the game with entirely high-res backgrounds and maybe even release a kind of "demo" patch. This will give a greater sense of progress, and therefore more motivation to complete the job, than just doing random scenes (or the most common scenes) from all over the game in no order and having nothing playable until the job is near completion. Since this project will take a very long time and involves remaking hundreds of scenes, motivation will be a big issue sooner or later.
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Well you better include the train scene. Since thats the one i already did lol.
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I'd say the most important thing would be to get the first section of the game done completely.
If you get, say, everything up to Cloud meeting Aeris done, or even everything from the Reactor 1 mission done, you'll be able to play a significant amount of the game with entirely high-res backgrounds and maybe even release a kind of "demo" patch. This will give a greater sense of progress, and therefore more motivation to complete the job, than just doing random scenes (or the most common scenes) from all over the game in no order and having nothing playable until the job is near completion. Since this project will take a very long time and involves remaking hundreds of scenes, motivation will be a big issue sooner or later.
This 1 million times
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I'd say the most important thing would be to get the first section of the game done completely.
If you get, say, everything up to Cloud meeting Aeris done, or even everything from the Reactor 1 mission done, you'll be able to play a significant amount of the game with entirely high-res backgrounds and maybe even release a kind of "demo" patch. This will give a greater sense of progress, and therefore more motivation to complete the job, than just doing random scenes (or the most common scenes) from all over the game in no order and having nothing playable until the job is near completion. Since this project will take a very long time and involves remaking hundreds of scenes, motivation will be a big issue sooner or later.
Thanks for the direction kudistos! Methinks we'll be going that route!
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The only problem I see with this is that midgar needs to have consistency. Different modellers have different ways of doing things. And if Timu's working on Midgar, Are we all just gonna wait 'til he's done and then move onto the next thing? If we help out with Midgar, consistency is jeopardised, and even if we disregarded them, Lining up Midgar's gonna be hell when we've all got different parts of it.
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well, you can do things that arnt in the main scene... like interiors. inside the reactor fo example. i dont wanna do that :P
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A way to spread the work for Midgar and retain consistency would be for one person to do (for example) exteriors on the upper plate, one to do interiors on the upper plate, one to do exteriors in the slums and one to do interiors in the slums.
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And some poor sod can have /all/ of HQ to themselves :P
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inside the reactor fo example.
Incidentally, I can't seem to find those Field files. Any idea what they're called?
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*is learning how to model*
I'm gonna disregard everything you just said and call out temple of the Ancients ;P
It's so much easier with a pen & tab. Does anyone else use one or just stick to keyboard and mouse?
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Has someone made a tutorial about all this? If not, it should be done, I guess you'll have more help that way.
I'd really like to help you guys, but I don't know a thing about modelling. I was thinking about learning it for some times, but I guess it's not something I can do even with a year of experience. :(
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I knew nothing of modelling when i started. Learn as you go.
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A Tutorial! I shall make one immediately!!
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as long as the major traveled areas get done, i think the project will be heading in the right direction. Focus on the opening cine to grab people attention, then hit all of the major town centers (Kalm, Rocket Town, Cosmo, etc...) that way you get a nice sample in the largest dose. Fact is, many areas are only visited once and could be done last (or not even at all) and no one would realy mind.
No sense in painting the back of the stair case, right?
just my 2 cents.
That's a really good point. I suppose a good priority list would be:
1. Places that need to be visited repeatedly during the story.
2. Places that need to be visited once during the story.
3. Places that don't need to be visited during the story.
I wonder what the most visited field screen is? The bridge of the Highwind probably.
The most visited scene is the opening train platform. Even if you hate the game and only played it once, you have seen it.
Obviously I was talking about 'during the story'. Assuming people actually play it.
But yeah the demo thing is a good idea.
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A Tutorial! I shall make one immediately!!
I would welcome this for sure i wouldd love to try and help you guys out, but I know nothing of modeling buildings so would be awesome if you could do a tutorial for this.
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look at a building... what is it? its a box! simple as that. Put extra little boxes on it and other details n stoff... dats bout it :P Anyhow i await your tutorial Neo, I hope to learn somethin!
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I finished filming the sketchup part of it now. This tutorial will mainly be for max users, but i guess if you use blender it's not too hard to transfer the info.
At any rate, what would you guys prefer? 3 Different parts covering seperate things at a relatively normal pace, or just one part sped up really fast? The Max section might have to be split up anyway, since I dunno how much detail I'mma go into yet.
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split up with more detail, no question. We need to provide thorough instruction.
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NCS, I can deal with the modelling myself. I would like to know which program to use to view/extract the field backgrounds. Thank you.
I am using Maya 2010 with pen & tab, but I plan to move onto Max when I am more learned.
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use palmer, you can find it in the gametweaking section.
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Ugh, seems Max has failed me, And I can't import any .obj files now (I need to be able to do this for importing walkmeshes)
Tutorial is on hold until I find a way around this.
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Bit of a status update. Tried my hand at texturing a bit. Opinions would be welcome.
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8057/train5.png) (http://img441.imageshack.us/i/train5.png/)
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Noticeable tiling effect along the right wall. Possibly use a different texture for each object of the same type, to make it look less uniform. Otherwise, fantastic!
Also, slightly unrelated, the lighting in the front part of the train car is too dark.
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Noticeable tiling effect along the right wall. Possibly use a different texture for each object of the same type, to make it look less uniform. Otherwise, fantastic!
Also, slightly unrelated, the lighting in the front part of the train car is too dark.
The original is quite dark as well, but ill see if i can tweak it. As for the tiling effect i would have to uv map everything, which i don't want to do if i can avoid it.
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Not bad so far, but I think it should be a bit dirtier and grimier; at the moment it's a little too clean for a Midgar train.
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Lookin good. Im not sure how far you are going to work on the crates and floor but they should look pretty dirty.
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Not bad so far, but I think it should be a bit dirtier and grimier; at the moment it's a little too clean for a Midgar train.
Is this based on what you see in the original image or what you think a midgar train should look like. Because i do not see much dirt and grime in the original.
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It's not dirty in the sense that there are big patches of mud everywhere, but I think the original looks like it has seen better days. It's dirty in the sense tat it doesn't look like anything gets cleaned or looked after and nothing shines very much.
If you look at the two pics next to each other, it becomes clear that the original train looks like no-one has taken care of it. It's a little darker, the metal looks less uniform and more imperfections, and there are quite a few blotches of dark grey on the metal, especially on the pieces of metal that connect the sides of the car to the ceiling. Dirty and grimy describes the feel of the place as much as the actual amount of dirt.
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2453/14756699.png)
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SL, I dont know the maya interface fer this stuff, but in blender you can offset textures just plopped on, as well as adjust in other ways how they're mapped to an object, that could help the uniformity (i imagine maya can do it too :P)
Also, You can probably put additional layers of texture on. Just a random gradient to create inconsistency in the metal (map this texture differently to the first). Dirt and grime layers can go on too.
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Looking at a side by side i can see the bars could be a tad thicker, end of the train needs to be a tad darker, Otherwise, fantastic job man! even if you just toss that image in game i'd be happy
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SL, I dont know the maya interface fer this stuff, but in blender you can offset textures just plopped on, as well as adjust in other ways how they're mapped to an object, that could help the uniformity (i imagine maya can do it too :P)
Also, You can probably put additional layers of texture on. Just a random gradient to create inconsistency in the metal (map this texture differently to the first). Dirt and grime layers can go on too.
what he said.
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Any better?
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/5123/train6.png) (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/train6.png/)
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YES! That is looking fantastic!
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YES! That is looking fantastic!
This ;D
Also, I have literally just realised how different hi-poly texturing is to low-poly D:
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/SHOT.jpg)
Too much Crackage?
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wow sl, that looks heaps better! can't wait to see it in action.
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in my opinion the back door should be a little more dark.
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Is there a broad, overarching principle behind 'redesign' decisions? Or are we just going with whatever has the most visual appeal in any given case?
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Is there a broad, overarching principle behind 'redesign' decisions? Or are we just going with whatever has the most visual appeal in any given case?
Nothing very specific. Given the very low res originals it is hard to discern many visual details so we have to make it up as it goes. So basically what we think looks good. I guess that is the problem with people texturing their own work. There will be no consistency between the different modellers.
Oh and disregard the back wall on the above image. It needs alot more work.
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Too much Crackage?
There is never enough.
or rather, assuming that picture is a piece of a building in junon, a place where road literally shoots out of the ground to protect the buildings,
it would seem logical to say that the cracks would be minimal or unminimal?. It looks good nonetheless. Some of the larger holes look like gun wounds.
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D:
Guys, Bad news.
I was trying to get my OSX/windows thing working and well, I installed a bootloader onto my Windows partition, where I kept all my stuff.
Only problem is, Now I can't boot into that partition, and according to OSX, it's slightly corrupted. Anyone know of any way at all to recover stuff from a corrupted NTFS formatted harddrive from OSX? To be honest I'm willing to go the whole hog and install linux if someone knows a way it'll help.
I might be out of action for a good while because of this, and unless I can recover stuff, I've more than likely lost all the stuff I had on it, including all my contributions to this project (Not as if there was much anyway)
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you overwrote the bootloader? If you have windows 6 or 7 and maybe 5,
the install disc can build you a fresh bootloader.
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Nono, if i just overwrote the bootloader, it wouldn't be unreadable via mac. That's irrelevant anyway - It's a laptop, and as such, it didn't come with the vista disc, So I can't even reinstall windows and format that partition.
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Nono, if i just overwrote the bootloader, it wouldn't be unreadable via mac. That's irrelevant anyway - It's a laptop, and as such, it didn't come with the vista disc, So I can't even reinstall windows and format that partition.
Put laptop in drive of another computer? and or boot to a Linux CD and access Windows partition, back up data then reload windows?
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Yeah, I'm trying to do the linux thing now (although with a
legitimate copy of Win7 instead)
I'll never be able to get vista back though - unless the "restore factory defaults" thing which I used to use to reinstall vista is transferrable. I'm not sure about this.
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No i don't believe it is
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Currently Typing from Ubuntu - It's a lot better than I thought it would be. :-D
At any rate, as soon as I figure out how to try recovering stuff from corrupted volumes on ubuntu, I'll get back to you guys aout how much stuff I've lost - I know I'm getting really off-topic here.
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You really managed to rape yourself didn't you, Neo...
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/219/templeancientsrender.png)
Look familiar?
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Yeah, I totally did D:
Linux is telling me that the disk isn't even corrupt. But I go into it and it just looks like a fresh install of vista - none of my stuff's there. This Pretty much means I'mma just have to reformat and lose everything, which is totally crap.
...That's the Temple of the Ancients, Isn't it? Looking epic so far :D
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Did you lose junon as well?
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Guys, Bad news.
I was trying to get my OSX/windows thing working and well, I installed a bootloader onto my Windows partition, where I kept all my stuff.
Only problem is, Now I can't boot into that partition, and according to OSX, it's slightly corrupted. Anyone know of any way at all to recover stuff from a corrupted NTFS formatted harddrive from OSX? To be honest I'm willing to go the whole hog and install linux if someone knows a way it'll help.
I might be out of action for a good while because of this, and unless I can recover stuff, I've more than likely lost all the stuff I had on it, including all my contributions to this project (Not as if there was much anyway)
Explain to me exactly what you have done.
Writing a bootloader to a partition, alone, should not 'corrupt' the drive. If the bootloader doesn't have an entry for the OS, it won't boot it, but writing a GRUB MENU.LST is pretty trivial...
First instinct would be to create a new partition in unused space, install GRUB to MBR, have the LST provide a Windows entry (via chainloader), and boot that way, but I'd prefer to know exactly what you've done before instructing you.
Tell me:
- which bootloader? GRUB? GRUB 2? LILO?
- where did you have it write its config files to?
- where's the bootloader? On the root of the Windows partition? On the MBR of the disk?
- why you didn't backup your work before making major modifications to your installation ; )
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You really managed to rape yourself didn't you, Neo...
-snip- There used to a picture here but I killed it.
Look familiar?
Maybe offset the bricks round the top rather than having them piled up like that, shift the middle rows along by half a bricks length, I've not reached the temple in my current playthrough so I can't really comment properly.
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This Pretty much means I'mma just have to reformat and lose everything, which is totally crap.
It happens. I did it myself a few weeks back. Treat it as a lesson learnt, it only takes a few megs of space to backup personal files. If Bosola can't help you then you'll have to build back up and ocme back twice as strong (:
Maybe offset the bricks round the top rather than having them piled up like that, shift the middle rows along by half a bricks length, I've not reached the temple in my current playthrough so I can't really comment properly.
I can see what you mean. There are various inconsistencies between the two field backgrounds, so I'm pretty sure the originals were two completely different models. I want to render the two backgrounds with the same model naturally.
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6199/templeancients01.png) (http://img63.imageshack.us/i/templeancients01.png/)
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/216/templeancients.png) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/templeancients.png/)
If you analyze the bricks you can see in the second image there appears to be 4 columns each side on the entrance, but in the first if you look at the back wall you can count 8 in total, leaving their no room to even put an entrance - if the front and back walls are consistent, that is... which I'm sure any level-headed, temple-building ancient would be sensible enough to do... saying that, building walls in columns of bricks is just asking for failure, no wonder the Temple of the Ancients is looking so shabby these days. :D
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Hm, that's some pretty tricky design...
I'd say, make the temple rectangular like this: make the bricks on the left, right, and front a certain size, then make the bricks along the back wall 11/8 the size of the normal bricks. this will allow you three-bricks length to make the entrance.
Looking at it from the aerial view, it *does* look rectangular in this way, don't you think?
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Looking at it from the aerial view, it *does* look rectangular in this way, don't you think?
It is. I made a model in sketchup of the aeriel view and it came out as a rectangle but it's actually more square than it is percieved from that perspective. I can always tweak the bricks after I've made the temple, I also want to make them a little thicker.
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Guys, Bad news.
I was trying to get my OSX/windows thing working and well, I installed a bootloader onto my Windows partition, where I kept all my stuff.
Only problem is, Now I can't boot into that partition, and according to OSX, it's slightly corrupted. Anyone know of any way at all to recover stuff from a corrupted NTFS formatted harddrive from OSX? To be honest I'm willing to go the whole hog and install linux if someone knows a way it'll help.
I might be out of action for a good while because of this, and unless I can recover stuff, I've more than likely lost all the stuff I had on it, including all my contributions to this project (Not as if there was much anyway)
Explain to me exactly what you have done.
Writing a bootloader to a partition, alone, should not 'corrupt' the drive. If the bootloader doesn't have an entry for the OS, it won't boot it, but writing a GRUB MENU.LST is pretty trivial...
First instinct would be to create a new partition in unused space, install GRUB to MBR, have the LST provide a Windows entry (via chainloader), and boot that way, but I'd prefer to know exactly what you've done before instructing you.
Tell me:
- which bootloader? GRUB? GRUB 2? LILO?
- where did you have it write its config files to?
- where's the bootloader? On the root of the Windows partition? On the MBR of the disk?
- why you didn't backup your work before making major modifications to your installation ; )
...I Feel like a total Hermoor for formatting the partition before I got the chance to see this post. D'oh!
...Just because it's a small consolation, I'll answer the questions anyway ;D
- It was PCEFI v9
- God only knows. I just clicked on the windows partition and let it install, thinking it might solve my problem. Actually, right before that, I did the same thing to the OSX partition, except it didn't ruin it. In fact, it did nothing.
- Same answer as before.
- Because I didn't think installing something onto a partition was enough to completely obliterate it. Actually, last time I backed up was while I was working on Junon, as it goes. I won't have a complete version of it, and it won't be anywhere near texture-ready, but it's not completely gone. I'd say it'll take me about a week to get everything back to how it was.
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First things first: download RECUVA (http://www.piriform.com/recuva). Formatting will only wipe the boot record, and reinstalling will take up a block on the disk that might well miss your FF7 data. Using RECUVA might let you access and recover data that's still on the physical drive, as only low-level formatting actually 'wipes' data.
Now:
1. PC EFI is not a bootloader, as I recall - but I don't know a lot about it. I believe it's just a means of patching an OS X kernel so that it can boot on 'general' x86 machines with the aid of, say, GRUB (I've never followed hackintosh stuff at all, though). You needed to apply it, IIRC, to the OS X hfs partition only, and then install GRUB as a bootloader. There's your problem. Applying EFI to your NTFS partition might cause a LOT of issues, or might do nothing at all. Looks like the former...
2. ...That's about the limit of my understanding of EFI, and I'd put good money on the next poster coming in to prove me completely wrong....
3. It is. It's very easy to render a machine unbootable this way. Also, gain a copy of FreeDOS that you can use as a LiveCD. If you install a bootloader to the MBR, you can then use FDISK to repair it. Saved my ass countless times.
4. Use RECUVA as soon as possible. The longer you leave it, the greater the chance the 'defunct' data will be overwritten!
TRIVIA TIME:
Reformatting doesn't actually wipe out data. It just wipes and rebuilds the file table. You can think of a partition like a book. Rather than going through every page to find the info you need, you have a 'contents' page and an index that lets you quickly locate data. This contents page is like your file table. Reformatting rewrites the contents page, but doesn't change the rest of the book.
Reformatting, then, doesn't actually wipe data. The exception is 'low level formatting', which actively overwrites all parts of the disk with zeroes. However, if a particle has been at "one" for a long time, it will still have a 'trace' in its magnetic field - it won't have the exact same response as a 'natural' zero particle. It's therefore possible to take an "analogue" read of the disk, by changing the tolerance of the disk heads. This method will produce 'likely' sector images, which probably represent the disk sections prior to reformatting. These can then be combined and recombined, to create a likely pre-format disk image. This image can be searched for "sensitive" data: credit card info, bank details, or evidence of criminal activity. Thus, neither deleting, formatting or a single low-level reformat action can securely wipe data.
You can get around this another way, by using a 'data shredder', that repeatedly writes and overwrites with ones and zeros, in varying patterns. This can fully 'clean' the disk.
The truly paranoid, of course, simply keep their 'sensitive activities' to some secure flash-drive-booting linux distro, and use a proper proxy service for online activity, though government and law enforcement can often coerce proxy providers into handing over their (extant) records. And for good reason, too.
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That was very educational, Bosola. Thank you for sharign that. I hope Neo can recover his data and his last saved version of Junon.
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Holy crap! You would have saved my life when I had a similar issues on my desktop's last partition. What I did was delete my linux partition the wrong way from my windows partition. Idiot me I realized after the fact that grub was my bootloader and linux my primary partition effectively locking my hard drive from any boot.
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Way off topic guys. Please continue this discussion in unrelated.
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Just thought I'd check with you guys first before I go any further...
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8383/templeancientsbrickrend.png) (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/templeancientsbrickrend.png/)
Keep or use column structure seen before? I want to use these but I don't want to deviate from keeping true to the original too much. As far as actual structuring goes it is more realistic to build things this way, otherwise they're quite easy to knock down...
Let me know so I can start working again!
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I would suggest keeping to the originals, just for the sake of consistency. But it probably would not be a big deal if changed.
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I will use these for now then, as they're quite easy to change. If push comes to shove, I could always have two different versions for people to choose between.
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How about change those bottom two rows into one row of square blocks. The remainder can be how you have it.
This'll help it look less like a industrial brick wall.
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Actually i think the temple is 4 row tall, look at the fast pic i made.
(http://satan2k.servhome.org/FF7TempleConcept.png)
I think the floor is not at the same level as the cliff, which could make sense since the temple was carved into the rock.
And about the door, i think they just made it 2 * (half bricks) or (2/3 bricks) long, and padded/centered the other bricks.
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Thanks for the observations, Satan and Xeno. I'll take those into account. Have either of you got any/more work to show at all?
It'll be on hold over the weekend while I catch up with coursework, or I'll try to fit a few hours in if I can, then back to college on Monday. I've worked out how I'm gonna build the step pyramid. Like mentioned before it's a tricky design but it can be done. Thanks for the support - I'm new to modelling but I'm very eager to become a contributor to this project.
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Can you redirect me to a topic that will show me how to insert a background. I decided to make an other background, the costa del sol is in stand by, but I almost finish the entrance of gold saucer. I need to test it in game to see if the camera is well placed and other things like that.
sorry for my english one more time ;D
thank you and good job guys
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Can you redirect me to a topic that will show me how to insert a background. I decided to make an other background, the costa del sol is in stand by, but I almost finish the entrance of gold saucer. I need to test it in game to see if the camera is well placed and other things like that.
sorry for my english one more time ;D
thank you and good job guys
I sadly can't point you to anything other then ali's program "palmer" (do a search and your find it)
but post some screens, we'd love to see your work
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1. show screens, we want to see! :P
2. to know if a camera is well aligned, overlay the original. If all the key points, particularly on the floor, match up, it'll be good.
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I can get your files in game if you need me to.
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ok thank's for the informations.
I didn't show you because there is a lot of things to do (the lightning is ugly ;D ) , I realy want to have the correct camera view before à correct the rest. I'll try to use an overlay like sumisu said.
But if you insist, here is a screen I made yesterday for my friends
http://www.monsterup.com/upload/127118202252.jpg
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Wow that is awesome!
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I have no words to describe this... wow Harro you're amazing!
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ok thank's for the informations.
I didn't show you because there is a lot of things to do (the lightning is ugly ;D ) , I realy want to have the correct camera view before à correct the rest. I'll try to use an overlay like sumisu said.
But if you insist, here is a screen I made yesterday for my friends
http://www.monsterup.com/upload/127118202252.jpg
Wow that is great work Harro!. Did you make those textures yourself? how did you get the pics on the floor made them yourself from scratch?
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:) thanks, I'm working on a better version . oups I forgot to remove the GP dealer :-D
Mako: I searched for the original pics but they don't available on internet so I put Fat chocobo from chocobo tales on DS, and two mog I found in google, and then I tried to make the same floor as the original. I made this on photoshop.
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:) thanks, I'm working on a better version . oups I forgot to remove the GP dealer :-D
Mako: I searched for the original pics but they don't available on internet so I put Fat chocobo from chocobo tales on DS, and two mog I found in google, and then I tried to make the same floor as the original. I made this on photoshop.
Fantastic job my friend! :D
Ass official team ass kisser i welcome you :P
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That really is some amazing work.
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I remade the animation when we arrive in Gold Saucer and correct some lighning and other things
http://www.youtube.com/user/akharr?feature=mhw5#p/u/0/3PICYGaIR-4
or
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcy39i_remake-entree-du-gold-saucer-v-2_videogames
pfiou +- 20 hours to calculate 9 seconde of animation :x
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Great job man. :D
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good stuff harro, This base is great, but you need to do some fine tuning, on the whole, the scene seems to wide. The blue...cart..rope thinger the proportions are fairly off. Try and get a hold of the ropeway station background in north corel to use as a secondary reference. Among these, the lights and propellers seem awfully small.
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there's a lot of things to do, yes.
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there's a lot of things to do, yes.
balloons! :P
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Not bad. there are a few things that need work...
Railway car does seem off by a slight bit, perhaps too wide... the props are a bit small, as has been said, and the cut through the giant mog-faced tunnel wall...
They should spin much... much faster...
It is a very good start though, I will say that.
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Hello all,
I've been following the progress of this project for some time now and I've got a few questions;
I've been wondering, is there any logic in this? ( I don't mean the 3d-fication of the backgrounds) but I see some models of scenes, however,
which scenes are in progress and what is their status?
Isuggest putting up a list of the file names and who is working on them in order to prevent different people starting on the same scene, also complement the list with some sort of status (like modeling, texturing and rendered (perhaps with a percentage of completion along with it).
Also what's not quite clear to me is the resolution of the desired rendering...
and finally, how do you take count for the different layers (sprites for lights within the original backgrounds)?
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Rendering can be any size, so basically whatever is needed is what is rendered.
Also, I'm not sure if you understand or not, but FFVII's maps were all high resolution models that were rendered in the first place. We are recreating those models within a reasonable tolerance of error, and rendering them at probably somewhere around 4x to 8x the original size so they don't look pixelated in-game.
As for a list of files... I don't think ANY scenes have been finished yet, and really there's no telling what can happen when many people work on one scene, you could get 3 steaming piles of crap and one absolutely amazing piece, or you could get all amazing pieces in which you are conflicted in your choices... or you could get all crap...
Many artists are better than one in my opinion.
If you want to help, pick your favorite place and have at it.
As for the supposed "sprites" for lighting... we'll do exactly what square did and cut away everything in the render except for the pixels we want to be in the foreground. Square made their layers after the fact, that's why the antialiasing is still present in scenes... Sometimes if you look for it, you can see the AA in front of the characters.
FFVII doesn't do variable or semi-transparency at all, so we simply have "opaque" or "transparent" pixels to worry about.
The only real issue is getting the scenes rendered at the same FOV and angle as the originals.
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Thats an awesome start harro.
Couple of things that could help with the lighting/materials.
Some of the cartoony assets of that scene have a self lighted material.
Basically almost everything in that scene is self lighted if you look hard. Cept the floor it seems.
What software are you using? max? Look in the materials editor and turn self lighting to
50% or something like that. Its just a way to fake the glow in the dark look of the object.
That could help a lot to get that same look in the game.
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Think Aali fixed the Semi transparent pixel issue
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Thats an awesome start harro.
Couple of things that could help with the lighting/materials.
Some of the cartoony assets of that scene have a self lighted material.
Basically almost everything in that scene is self lighted if you look hard. Cept the floor it seems.
What software are you using? max? Look in the materials editor and turn self lighting to
50% or something like that. Its just a way to fake the glow in the dark look of the object.
That could help a lot to get that same look in the game.
Im pretty sure he uses maya. If this is the case all you need to do is goto material attributes and turn on shader glow.
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Thats an awesome start harro.
Couple of things that could help with the lighting/materials.
Some of the cartoony assets of that scene have a self lighted material.
Basically almost everything in that scene is self lighted if you look hard. Cept the floor it seems.
What software are you using? max? Look in the materials editor and turn self lighting to
50% or something like that. Its just a way to fake the glow in the dark look of the object.
That could help a lot to get that same look in the game.
Im pretty sure he uses maya. If this is the case all you need to do is goto material attributes and turn on shader glow.
EGADS! sl knows something about modeling now!? What did I miss!!?
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The train scene that i am working on?
(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5153/trainfinal.png) (http://img176.imageshack.us/i/trainfinal.png/)
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That is FANTASTIC ;D
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I remade the animation when we arrive in Gold Saucer and correct some lighning and other things
http://www.youtube.com/user/akharr?feature=mhw5#p/u/0/3PICYGaIR-4
or
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcy39i_remake-entree-du-gold-saucer-v-2_videogames
pfiou +- 20 hours to calculate 9 seconde of animation :x
Wow Harro, this is really excellent work! I think once you grab the original images with Palmer to match it up a bit better, this will look fantastic.
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The train scene that i am working on?
(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5153/trainfinal.png) (http://img176.imageshack.us/i/trainfinal.png/)
My point of view:
- Lights are still too bright;
- Crate on the top right near light should be more white-ish than blue-ish
- Proportions/camera angle might look weird ingame, at least comparing with the original train.
- You should change the texture of the train itself becase it looks more like wood rather than smooth metal.
- There's also some random lightning in ceiling and some parts where it looks that light pointing there is broken.
You can also throw some test chars in there and compare with this picture:
(http://i.neoseeker.com/screenshots/R2FtZXMvUGxheXN0YXRpb24vUm9sZS1QbGF5aW5nL0ZhbnRhc3k=/final_fantasy_vii_image31.jpg)
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sl1982 good job :) I like it.
alloy, I'm using Maya 2010 . I take note of what you say. thank you. I'm just a beginner with Maya, I have a lot of things to learn. Lightinig is a little complicated :-[ I red some tutorial but english is not my mother tongue (it's french) so I have to understand by myself and it's not always easy :-\
so if you have some tricks for Maya (like alloy and sl1932) , please tell me.
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Rendering can be any size, so basically whatever is needed is what is rendered.
...We are recreating those models within a reasonable tolerance of error, and rendering them at probably somewhere around 4x to 8x the original size so they don't look pixelated in-game.
If you want to help, pick your favorite place and have at it.
FFVII doesn't do variable or semi-transparency at all, so we simply have "opaque" or "transparent" pixels to worry about.
...
The only real issue is getting the scenes rendered at the same FOV and angle as the originals.
Okay, here goes...
I've been working on
- MD1_1.DAT
- MD2_2.DAT
- MD1STIN.DAT
Overview (sortof...)
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5003/station0003.th.jpg) (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/station0003.jpg/)
MD1_1 camera:
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7019/station0109.th.jpg) (http://img204.imageshack.us/i/station0109.jpg/)
anything usefull?
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SpooX that looks great! I didnt compare to riginal for a ton of detail, but it looks like you have the form and details on the right track. Is that in sketchup?
Things to keep in mind - Try to model as many details in as you can, and make sure yer camera angle is right. - to check, make a render and stick it in photoshop or something, and on another layer put the original, whilst playing with the opacity, you can see the inconsitencies change.
I look forward to seeing more! (and animating it all when its done :P)
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Looks like this little (??) project is picking up some steam.
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SpooX that looks great! I didnt compare to riginal for a ton of detail, but it looks like you have the form and details on the right track. Is that in sketchup?
Thanx, No it is not in sketchup, it's 3d Max (my favorite 3d package)
Things to keep in mind - Try to model as many details in as you can, and make sure yer camera angle is right. - to check, make a render and stick it in photoshop or something, and on another layer put the original, whilst playing with the opacity, you can see the inconsitencies change.
The camera should be spot on... you can check it out, the render is the same resolution...
I look forward to seeing more! (and animating it all when its done :P)
Now that is defenitly a huge challenge, I'v been trying to match the camera of the intro movie, but noy quite succesfull (yet).
Also the modelling involved in doing the complete midgar.....hmmm that could take some time...
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leave the animation to me :P thats my kinda thing. and yes, we do need most of midgar. The opening will be started one once we have all the game based areas doen (all the above plate) as well as hq. In the meantime though, we can do the short anim, where the camera flys around cloud and he runs to the reactor. (we have a reactor in the works somerhwere).
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Looks like this little (??) project is picking up some steam.
Heh, we have to give moral support to our modders/graphic devs so they can keep our dream alive. (only steam i can give :-[ )
Btw, wouldn't it be easier to redo the battlebackgrounds first? They're less and smaller.
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battle backgrounds work much differently, as they are realtime 3d scenes. For the most part, its just retexture work. Some experimenting has been done with these. The only modelling that could/should really be done is with objects in the scenes, such as the large crates in the reactors. the floors and sky models just need a texture upgrade.
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when i get a new laptop, i will probably throwdown on redoing the battle scenes. Most of them should be pretty easy, since the WMRP covers nearly every type of terrain your likely to find within the battle scenes. The others will have to be created by hand, but after creating what seemed like a million for the WMRP, that won't be such a large task.
Lee
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well thers about 100 battle scenes :P have fun ^^
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the floors and sky models just need a texture upgrade.
Unless they are terribly aligned like this haha:
http://img84.imageshack.us/i/ff72009092113120596.png/
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afaik, that was the artists' booboo, that scene should align okay.
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well thers about 100 battle scenes :P have fun ^^
i know, i'd probably skim through and hit all of the organic scenes first, since those types of textures are easy. I had the same thought when i started the WMRP, but once i moved along i found many textures were near duplicates, and one texture could be substituted for multiple others. The sheer number of textures seems large, but once you get familiar with the naming system it gets a little easier. I was already doing some research on this before my laptop was stolen. Its all just a matter of when i can get a new PC, right now i stuck with an old macbook, which means no FF7 to test on.
lee
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In my opinion, I think that because we can edit the meshes of the battle scenes, we definately should. I think retexturings, as good as they are, should really go along with a brand new mesh if possible, otherwise the textures will look a bit...out of place on the old models? Take this for example. (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2457/ff72009092113120596.png) However good the new textures may be, you'll never be able to get around the fact that that fence thing definately looks like a box with some transparency, and the bars look totally and completely 2D. The only exception is the WMRP, And this is because it's impossible to edit the model - I think it'd look way better with a nice new entire model for the whole map. Anyway, WMRP aside, I'd be against just adding new textures straight onto the old battle scenes, but that's just me.
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I've been messing around with some battle textures to try and make them look a bit better, but I'd really like to make use of Aali's new "direct" feature, instead of unpacking and repacking the lgp archives every time I want to test a frickin shinra floor! I don't know whether image2tex isn't converting properly or something, but with direct mode on and ovac.tex in the direct/battle/battle folder I can't seem to make it appear. Have I named it wrong?
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I think you need to remove the tex from the end of the file?
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In my opinion, I think that because we can edit the meshes of the battle scenes, we definately should. I think retexturings, as good as they are, should really go along with a brand new mesh if possible, otherwise the textures will look a bit...out of place on the old models? Take this for example. (http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2457/ff72009092113120596.png) However good the new textures may be, you'll never be able to get around the fact that that fence thing definately looks like a box with some transparency, and the bars look totally and completely 2D. The only exception is the WMRP, And this is because it's impossible to edit the model - I think it'd look way better with a nice new entire model for the whole map. Anyway, WMRP aside, I'd be against just adding new textures straight onto the old battle scenes, but that's just me.
I whole heartedly agree with you. However, the two biggest textures in almost every scene, are the floor, and the skybox. The skybox is fine how it is, and the floor object I beleive has some animations involved with it (certain summons for example). The floor part could be wrong... but in most scenes the floor part is fine as a flat grid :P. Other things, such as the bars, and the reactor in that example, could do for a change.
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while i agree that a remesh of the battle models would be great, it would be similar to the background re-modeling, in that it would increase the time it would take by at least x5. By retexturing, all the new materials would already be available for a modeler to come along and use those if they chose to remodel the scene. So time wouldn't be wasted IMHO, it would simply be ready to be remeshed without the trouble of retexturing, assuming the modeler kept the same offsets and sizes(which would be wise anyway.)
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Thought I'd post a few wip screens. This is my first time modelling anything so I'm learning from scratch (many thanks to Halkun's tutorial vids) so any feedback/tips anyone has I'd love to hear. I'm pretty much done with this one now, it's just the pipes that need doing (large and small) so I'll try and learn how to do those properly in the next few days
(http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/wip%205a.jpg)
(http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/wip%205b.jpg)
(http://bin.mypage.sk/FILES/wip%205c.jpg)
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looks great! I'd insert the scene above it, and include that, as its the same place, you'll get a bit more reference as well.
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Yea I tried to do that the other day but had trouble getting it to line up. I think I need to look up how to do it properly then give it another go. If I can carry on at this rate hopefully I'll be able to get a decent number of backgrounds done (models anyway - texturing I'm not sure I have the artistic skills required!)
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Yea, work on getting the other scene in. Dont worry too much about textures, we can figure it out.
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Yea I tried to do that the other day but had trouble getting it to line up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw4TDjjDYYE might be helpful. Or it could very likely not include anything you haven't already figured out, I dunno.
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Thanks for the link ScottMcTony - it was the sizing I was having trouble with so it should help. I'll have a play around with it tomorrow. How are you getting on with your modelling?
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Just to let you know, you can make a tube using the "follow me" tool.
Here's a tutorial to make a doughnut. You don't have to make the line a circle but you can have it go from point A to point B..
http://sketchup.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=40985
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Just a little update....
MD1_1:
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4662/station0114.jpg)
MD1_2:
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7740/station010214.jpg)
Hope you like it....
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Just a little update....
MD1_1:
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4662/station0114.jpg)
MD1_2:
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7740/station010214.jpg)
Hope you like it....
Holy sh*t you did that!? I'm no expert but that looks much much better than the original. Good Work! ;D
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Nice work! Should be in the bombing mission thread though
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Awesome job!
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Great Job guys!
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Are we still able to post in this thread?
If so.
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/Shadow0fIntent/63-1.jpg)
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/Shadow0fIntent/Ani-1.gif)
Anyone wanna take a guess :P?
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I know that room! It's the armory, the one where you have to blow up the south wall so you can fight Revolver Ocelot :P
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I know that room! It's the armory, the one where you have to blow up the south wall so you can fight Revolver Ocelot :P
I thought this was Final Fantasy 7 :P Not Metal Gear Solid!
Anyway, here is another.
(http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/Shadow0fIntent/64.jpg)
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I should joke now, but most of us know it is Shin-Ra Building :P
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Hmmm, but it still reminds of MGS.... :P
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Hmmm, but it still reminds of MGS.... :P
From where I came from, MGS stands for Methodist Girl School ;D.
Anyway, good job guys, can't wait for the new field backgrounds in game.