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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris_Chev on 2013-07-29 03:45:48
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I understand that this has more than likely been done to death, but whatever. How do you say her name? I'm partial to Aeris, simply because that is how I grew up pronouncing it, and Aerith just sounds unnatural to me. Kinda sounds like you have a lisp.
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Aerith.
Aeris sounds to me like Aegis.
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Maybe i'm old, grumpy, and don't like things that're different, but i was raised on the ol' ps1 version, and Aeris seems rather normal to me. Additionally Aerith sounds like you're pronouncing it with a lisp. Also its pronounced aeris in japanese.
On the other hand... canon.
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Aerith. That's how it is in Japanese (Can someone confirm this? Not 100% sure). From what I understood, Aerith was changed to Aeris to keep the same pronunciation as the Japanese. Looking at the debug rooms, she's named Earith (which is close enough to Earth), so my guess is that's where it came from. Earth, Earith, Aerith, Aeris. Then again it's all up to personal preference. I prefer the original Japanese pronunciation, some prefer the original English one.
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The final concept art (http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/early-ffvii-aerith.jpg) had "Earith" spelled in English on the final draft.
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It's whatever you want it to be, seeing as you can set the names. Having said that, Aerith is one of the few names Square has refused to retcon in later media to match the original English translation (except FFT on PS1 but that was awful translation-wise) so I guess they feel it's important.
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The correct spelling and pronunciation is Aerith (Air-ith), with the th. I prefer Aeris (it sounds much better than Aerith), but that's how it is. According to the writers, the name was chosen as a near anagram of the English word "Earth" (stated in Ultimania). Japanese has no kana for "th", so they Japanese use su. For example, death in kana is "Desu" when representing the English word, and Behemoth is Behiimosu (ベヒーモス).
The reason Aerith ends up in some places as Earith is because the kana uses e then a, but if you look at Japanese kana for Aerial, you see the sound is "aer" and not "ear". Kana is all about sound. The person who converted to "Earith" actually guessed right that the su was th, but Baskett did not.
Aerith
エ ア リ ス
E A RI SU
The problem with kana is that you often need the writers to tell you the spelling they desired (as you can see above there are numerous possibilities otherwise like Aerlith aerlis aeris aerith aerisu aelisu). They did do this with some of the names but Baskett obviously never got a copy of the Official Establishment File. In that, it lists Aerith, Leno and Yrena (as opposed to Aeris, Reno and Elena). Aerith is the only spelling they later corrected, probably because the writers thought this was one mistake too many. And, because we now know that the word was taken from the English word Earth (and the fact Ultimania explains the spelling) we know how it is supposed to look and sound.
Part of my problem with the retranslation project is that those not listed in OEF can also have other spellings and meanings. The main one I am not sure about is Seto. Seto セト (Seto) can be Set.. セト（Set）
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_%28mythology%29
And there is absolutely no way to know unless a writer tells you what they meant. Converting to kana is simple. Converting back to the original word is sometimes impossible. Japanese use the same symbols to represent l and r, use the same symbol for th , su and s, to name some of the issues. Sound cannot accurately represent spellings. And so now you know why Aerith ended up Aeris and Earith.
Just to hammer home my point... take Reno. The kana is simple:
レノ
RE NO
But the name is actually Leno (assuming the OEF is correct lmao).. because レ can be Le or Re. Only a document telling the localiser what is intended can fix that. The reason Leno was used is likely because it means "pimp/seducer" in Latin, and contrasts to the meaning of "Rude" which is likely taken directly from the English word itself. Often in the translation project, meaning and mythology have had to be the guide that we use when deciding spellings, other times documentation by the writers, and failing that, no change is allowed.
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Always Aeris (like Aries). Fortunately so does everyone else I've encountered IRL - which is good cause I'd kick them in the shins if they walked up to me and said Ear-Rith.
I also say Tiff-a, not Teef-a. Yuff-ee, not You-fee. Are there other names or things in VII that have preferential proununciations?
Oh...I have heard some crazy ones for Tidus lol
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I try to spell and pronounce everything according to the current official US canon. Reno may not technically be an accurate localization, but it's his official name in the west. If S-E ever decides to correct it, then I'll call him Leno.
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Tifa... in German her name sounds similar to 'tiefer', which means 'deeper'. And this for a girl with really huge *eyes* and a skimpy mini skirt ...
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I switch between Aeris and Aerith all the time. And I pronounce things the way I choose to pronounce them, and only if I hear the correct pronunciation enough times will that even start to change.
Cl[ow]d
Tiff-fuh
Barret: (like Carrot, but with a B, or barreL with a T) -- i remember a forum a long time ago where it was established that those from the US generally pronounce it Bear-rit, from UK pronounce it as I do, and the French... I think it was "bar-ray")
Air-riss
Red-Fur-teen / Nan-nak-kee
Yuff-fee
Vinss-sʊnt
Sid
Cat-Siff
And I pronounce Reno's name "Ren-no", Nibelheim as "Nigh-bull-hIm" (like Hyne, but m instead of n), and Dio as "Dee-yo".
I used to pronounce Sephiroth as "Sef-royf", and Shinra as "Shryn-nar"-- but clearly my brothers couldn't read, their pronunciation carried over to me, and in-turn i always mis-read it until some point where I must have learnt to read.
And I also pronounce it "Ses-sʊl", "Tie-dʊs", and "Zid-dan". I am unsure whether I pronounce Vaan as "Van" or "Varn", but I used to do the former more frequently.
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I switch...
I don't know whether to laugh, be confused, or give you a high five lol. I think all of them would be appropriate.
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Cat-Siff
Cait Sith is the only character I consistently mispronounce. Technically it should be "ket shee", but I always pronounce it "Kate Sith". IDGAF.
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IDGAF.
:o LMFAO!!!
I am not consistant about Aeris/Aerith; I think I switch depending on whose thread I'm posting on. If it's my own I'm totally unable to decide anymore, and in day to day conversations with people I would probably not be willing to admit having ever considered this issue.
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I already got used to Aerith by now and im sticking to it
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Cait Sith is the only character I consistently mispronounce. Technically it should be "ket shee", but I always pronounce it "Kate Sith". IDGAF.
I didn't know this was even a point of contention! That atrocity's name will always be "Kate Sith" for me too. Though usually in my saves he gets named "Kitty Sith" or "Cait Shit"
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'Ket Shee'? So he is no Sith Lord? The truth can be so hard... :'(
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You need to remember that in Japanese there really isn't a "th" sound.... so personally I like Aeris better.
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You need to remember that in Japanese there really isn't a "th" sound.... so personally I like Aeris better.
That doesn't change the fact that they wanted the th there. The th sound and spelling do not exist in kana, so they do their best to approximate it for a Japanese audience. When localisers localise back to English, they should localise it with the th (which they now do), because the spelling and sound exist for English, which is where the name is derived from in the first place.
Your username "Cleanshooter" is cleanshooter. It is what it is. When it goes to Japan and back, without knowing what it was originally, it may end up "Creanchuter". Even the Japanese people wouldn't know for sure what was intended, but when it came back to English, you'd have the full array of letters and sounds, to correctly translate it. You wouldn't want it coming back wrong. Saying that, most people (I think it's safe to say), including me, prefer Aeris.
At the end of the day, it is the responsibility and job of the writers to say what they are happy with being changed, and to communicate this to the localising team (and communicate what they intend). This wasn't done with FF7, and the writers have obviously refused to let the "Aeris" mistake slide, like most of the others.
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I prefer aeris myself, though I don't mind saying aerith.
What annoys me though, is Mako.
I like saying "May-ko" a lot better then "Mah-ko"
To me, "May-ko" sounds much more natural around other english dialogue, while when they say "Mah-ko" it sounds to me like they are using a Japanese word.
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I have a tendency to pronounce Aerith as Aeris (a cross between the French and English th sounding, I'd say), but I don't like Aeris being typed out like that. Yet again personal preferences eh.
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This is a good thread. May-Ko absolutely.
On a related issue: Given my profession, it's extraordinarily interesting to me to observe the various positions of spectrumy people regarding "Correctness" versus "Resistance to Change". You all know who you are ;) I certainly do. On these forums it seems "Correctness" actually wins out over the "Resistance to Change" which is something that I am rather surprised about (I'm thinking some of you Aspys are actually HFAs). But then again, some diagnostic systems are trying to eliminate these distinctions - which I think is a mistake. And then there is always massive variability regarding professional judgement. Damned inexact sciences. And semantics could also be responsible. Of course I mean no offense to anyone whatsoever - just in case anyone did feel offended in any way. Sociological Lingustics are also probably at play here. Such a thought provoking thread...to me at least.
Anyway...there are a few pronunciations I've been able to change from the way I initially pronounced them. I used to say "Ko-Ko-Bo" but now I am fine with saying "Cho-ko-bo". Anyone else have any good ones?
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That doesn't change the fact that they wanted the th there. The th sound and spelling do not exist in kana, so they do their best to approximate it for a Japanese audience.
Please site proof that they wanted the 'th' sound. I find it hard to believe that they wanted a sound that is uncommon in their language. It doesn't matter if you use Aeris or Aerith it still gets spelled out as エアリス or Earisu it doesn't matter if you use Aeris or Aerith the translation remains the same (check google translator yo!). If your proof is that they have changed it in later translations is say ehhhh... The new translators probably didn't work with the original writers anyway.
At the end of the day I will always say Aeris and (May-ko) I agree Mah-ko sounds lame :-D
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I can prove that the th is there. It is there because, as the writers state in Ultimania (page 14 if I am not mistaken), the word Aerith comes from the English word Earth. Unless you want to refer to earth also without a th, then there is a double standard. There is no s there. No s at all. I understand why people want to hang on to any hope of it being Aeris spelling, or sound, but it simply isn't. It's Aerith. And even without the fact the writers have publicly stated what they intended, the fact is ALL FF's after 7 have used Aerith.
Aeris is wrong. The writers... are right. You can choose to ignore them, and the th, but it doesn't make it right :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVRevou_L7M
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Aerith.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/Aerith2.jpg)
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Please site proof that they wanted the 'th' sound. I find it hard to believe that they wanted a sound that is uncommon in their language. It doesn't matter if you use Aeris or Aerith it still gets spelled out as エアリス or Earisu it doesn't matter if you use Aeris or Aerith the translation remains the same (check google translator yo!). If your proof is that they have changed it in later translations is say ehhhh... The new translators probably didn't work with the original writers anyway.
At the end of the day I will always say Aeris and (May-ko) I agree Mah-ko sounds lame :-D
Sounds like you're not familiar with how loanwords work in Japanese
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclasweb.clas.wayne.edu%2FMultimedia%2Flanguages%2Ffiles%2FJapaneseLoanWords.pdf&ei=MI8LUsarNqml0wXAxYGYAw&usg=AFQjCNGhVzZ_lshHcW8ppfsSXWqsg-RzoQ&sig2=cac-HZQQhgn5rRycpsPgNg
^ Go all the way down to page 11 and look at the list of words with "th" in and notice that in EVERY single example an "s" sound is used (su/se/sa/shi) for the "th" sound.
Examples not used in the link above - the Japanese say "Happy Birthday" as ハッピーバースデー. Also, "death" is デス. "Earth" is アース. Notice that a "su" is used for the "th" sound.
When it (su) doesn't represent the "th" sound, it usually represents the "ce" or "se" sound. For example - "Ice" is アイス. "Dance" is ダンス. "Balance" バランス. "Sense" is センス.
And when it doesn't represent "ce" it represents a double s sound (ss). For example - "Glass" is グラス. "Kiss" is キス. "Chess" is チェス. "Dress" is ドレス.
There are, of course, a few exceptions where "su" is used to represent just an "s". "Gas" is ガス. "Tennis" is テニス. But this is definitely not very common.
One other thing is the fact that "Sephiroth" uses the "su" ending as well. Why is "Aeris" okay, but not "Sephiros" ? Both endings are pronounced the EXACT same way. There's also no "l" sound in Japanese and they just use "r" for it, so why can't her name be "Aelis"? :-D
It's safe to say they wanted the "th" sound, considering that's how loan words work in Japanese.
I also find it intriguing that you're happy with spelling her name the same way Japanese people pronounce it yet you don't like the Japanese pronunciation of Mako and instead use a different way of saying it :P
One more thing - The original translators didn't work with the original writers, which is why there were so many errors in translation in the original release. Like DLPB said, the developers wanted it to be "Aerith", so the fact it somehow ended up as "Aeris" in the English version proves the original translators had nothing to do with the original writers / development team.
But, hey, if you want to call her "Aeris" (if that's what you prefer) then go ahead; no one can stop you.
EDIT: lol, DLPB beat me to it ^_^ I couldn't find any pics online to prove it though.
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I wish I could find a video of this line (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0395251/quotes?item=qt0309761), it's much funnier that way. :)
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This is unfortunately where a LOT of the problems I've had with people opposed to the translation project come from. A lot of people refuse point blank to accept any change to FF7, regardless of how big the mistake is. The reason Aeris keeps coming back time and time again, is because people grew up with it, and want to find any cock and bull excuse to hold onto it, as if it somehow matters to the order of things. When you consider the sheer magnitude of things that were wrong, and we've corrected, you can see how that would cause the ire that has been directed as the project, and me especially.
People need to just accept that FF7 was deeply flawed with its translation. The unfortunate thing is that practically all of the mistakes in FF7 have been adopted as "English canon" precisely because the localisers and designers fear an illogical backlash. The best response I ever saw was someone Luksy pointed me to from online, who was desperately trying to explain how "Midgardsormr" became "Midgar Zolom". His belief was that it was a "variation". It killed him to just accept that it was a mistake, so instead he just argued that "anything goes". This Aerith thing is really interesting too, because quite a few people are accepting the spelling, and then saying "Well, japanese say Aeris, so it must be an s". :-D
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I can prove that the th is there. It is there because, as the writers state in Ultimania (page 14 if I am not mistaken), the word Aerith comes from the English word Earth.
Nice find! I concede to your point :-X. However! I still like Aeris better... just like I will forever call people "Spoony bards", yell "Rally-ho" until my throat bleeds, consider Aeris and Tifa the "Midgals", Unleash my "Ungarmax" Limit Break upon my enemies and know the "This guy are sick"...
"Off course" you are right translation errors deserve correction but that's what makes them great.. imho...
"Do, what now?"
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As I've said, I also dislike Aerith, simply because it sounds like a lisp, and Aeris sounds more like a girl's name... but hey ho. 8-) Where I disagree with you is that you seem to put great stock on the mistakes, and have a kind of major resistance to change... that the correct names are just refused. It isn't just you that feels that way, a whole lot do. I understand that there is nostalgia, and that there is something unique about the original game, but a lot of it makes no sense... and imho the corrections generally add to the game, not subtract.
I also think the writers' wishes should be upheld above all other considerations. I wouldn't want it any other way if I wrote a novel. Maybe that's just me.
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I wish I could find a video of this line (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0395251/quotes?item=qt0309761), it's much funnier that way. :)
haha - http://youtu.be/ijGQAeIKzgc
Dess to Aeris! :-D
This is unfortunately where a LOT of the problems I've had with people opposed to the translation project come from. A lot of people refuse point blank to accept any change to FF7, regardless of how big the mistake is. The reason Aeris keeps coming back time and time again, is because people grew up with it, and want to find any c*ck and bull excuse to hold onto it, as if it somehow matters to the order of things. When you consider the sheer magnitude of things that were wrong, and we've corrected, you can see how that would cause the ire that has been directed as the project, and me especially.
People need to just accept that FF7 was deeply flawed with its translation. The unfortunate thing is that practically all of the mistakes in FF7 have been adopted as "English canon" precisely because the localisers and designers fear an illogical backlash. The best response I ever saw was someone Luksy pointed me to from online, who was desperately trying to explain how "Midgardsormr" became "Midgar Zolom". His belief was that it was a "variation". It killed him to just accept that it was a mistake.
I can imagine your frustration. Sadly, most people hate change; they refuse to accept any alteration to what they grew up loving, even if that change is for the best (a higher quality, more accurate translation). It's actually the same situation with Star Wars - There are swarms of people who refuse to accept any change to the original trilogy and call all of the remakes/remasters "betrayals" to the originals. Things like this happen all the time.
"Spoony bards"
The greatest translation of all time :-D
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One other thing is the fact that "Sephiroth" uses the "su" ending as well. Why is "Aeris" okay, but not "Sephiros" ? Both endings are pronounced the EXACT same way. There's also no "l" sound in Japanese and they just use "r" for it, so why can't her name be "Aelis"? :-D
It's safe to say they wanted the "th" sound, considering that's how loan words work in Japanese.
I also find it intriguing that you're happy with spelling her name the same way Japanese people pronounce it yet you don't like the Japanese pronunciation of Mako and instead use a different way of saying it :P
Very interesting information about loanwords (I learned something today!). How funny would it have been if they called him Sephiros. SE-FEAR-OS it sounds like a good bud guy name, not as scary and Sephiroth but...
I think the mako thing was just one of those thing were that's how you said it when you were 14 so that's how you want to say it now. You're right of course that it is incorrect.
I think I'm with DLPB on this one though that is just sounds more like a girls name when it's spelled Aeris but hey ho...
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I'd say the changes to the trilogy really did fuck it up though a lot of the time :P Especially adding "NOoooo" to Darth in Jedi haha (if that is true...).
Lucas changed his mind about Anakin too... originally, he was a good friend of Obi Wan's who piloted ships. The idea, I think, was that he was already much older than a child when they met (in fact, I am sure of it. Obi Wan hardly said "Your father was already a great pod racer when I met him"). Lucas updated the graphics too in Jedi to dub in the head of the new Anakin actor. I thought the original trilogy was much better than the meddling Lucas did after, but... well... he's the writer, or at least was the owner. Still think he's done a really shitty job with Star Wars since the trilogy though. :-D Problems of that kind generally come about when a writer decides to make prequels, change ideas , and then has to update the original content to fix the discrepancies...
This is one of the reasons I dread a remake of VII. I have a horrible feeling they'd plant in crap about Genesis and so forth, and change too many things from what it was. Not to correct problems, but to revise the game... and imho the whole genesis thing and the prequels/sequels are crap.
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Very interesting information about loanwords (I learned something today!). How funny would it have been if they called him Sephiros. SE-FEAR-OS it sounds like a good bud guy name, not as scary and Sephiroth but...
I think the mako thing was just one of those thing were that's how you said it when you were 14 so that's how you want to say it now. You're right of course that it is incorrect.
I think I'm with DLPB on this one though that is just sounds more like a girls name when it's spelled Aeris but hey ho...
lol, yeah, I don't think "Sephiros" has the same ring to it as "Sephiroth".
I know what you mean; I used to mispronounce everything back when I played the game and it wasn't until much later when I realised I was wrong a lot of the time :)
I also agree "Aeris" sounds better ("Aerith" sounds like Mike Tyson trying to pronounce her name or something).
I'd say the changes to the trilogy really did f*ck it up though a lot of the time :P Especially adding "NOoooo" to Darth in Jedi haha (if that is true...).
Lucas changed his mind about Anakin too... originally, he was a good friend of Obi Wan's who piloted ships. The idea, I think, was that he was already much older than a child when they met. Lucas updated the graphics too in Jedi to dub in the head of the new Anakin actor. I thought the original trilogy was much better than the meddling Lucas did after, but... well... he's the writer, or at least was the owner. Still think he's done a really sh*tty job with Star Wars since the trilogy though. :-D Problems of that kind generally come about when a writer decides to make prequels, change ideas , and then has to update the original content to fix the discrepancies...
This is one of the reasons I dread a remake of VII. I have a horrible feeling they'd plant in crap about Genesis and so forth, and change too many things from what it was. Not to correct problems, but to revise the game... and imho the whole genesis thing and the prequels/sequels are crap.
Oh, I agree with you; some of the changes are... questionable, to say the least. But the point is that Lucas was improving them based on his vision (how he wanted them to be), so who are we to say his decisions are wrong? The rereleases of the original trilogy are improvements from Lucas' point of view, but to a large portion of the fans it ruins the films. It just illustrates how people are unwilling to accept change in things they love. Perhaps Star Wars wasn't the best example to use :P
I think VII has promise though; I heard Lucas doesn't have anything to do with the story (I may be mistaken though), so it'll be interesting to see Disney's take on the Star Wars Universe. It could be a great resurrection of Star Wars films, or it could backfire and cause more damage than even Lucas managed with the prequel trilogy :D
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See the thing is with that... sometimes a story is finished... and done. And Star wars, and FF7 were done. It takes a very good writer to be able to do prequels and sequels to a high standard. I can't see anyone managing to fix Star Wars now... or make it anywhere near as good as the original. The one thing that MIGHT work... would be to set it in the same universe but way in the future... or the past. That way you could make a completely new and original story. But hands up who doesn't think they will just milk the original story and characters for all they're worth... again.
Basically... the main problem is that success=profit, and that, for most writers and film makers, trumps quality. Instead of just ending a movie or franchise, they realise they can make uber millions with crappy additions. I guess it isn't all their fault... I mean, people keep buying it so.
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I can't see anyone managing to fix Star Wars now... or make it anywhere near as good as the original. The one thing that MIGHT work... would be to set it in the same universe but way in the future... or the past.
So... Knights of the Old Republic?
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Never played it :oops: Still can't see them doing anything truly original with the new film. We'll see. :P
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See the thing is with that... sometimes a story is finished... and done. And Star wars, and FF7 were done. It takes a very good writer to be able to do prequels and sequels to a high standard. I can't see anyone managing to fix Star Wars now... or make it anywhere near as good as the original. The one thing that MIGHT work... would be to set it in the same universe but way in the future... or the past. That way you could make a completely new and original story. But hands up who doesn't think they will just milk the original story and characters for all they're worth... again.
Basically... the main problem is that success=profit, and that, for most writers and film makers, trumps quality. Instead of just ending a movie or franchise, they realise they can make uber millions with crappy additions. I guess it isn't all their fault... I mean, people keep buying it so.
I originally thought they were going to set it far into the future, but then I heard they got some of the original cast back! Yeah, it probably will end up a disaster, but I can remain hopeful. It also won't make a difference to them whether it's amazing or terrible, because swarms of people are going to flock to it, regardless ;D
You're right - The film makers aren't to blame; the people who keep buying them are. They have no reason to put so much money and effort into sequels when they know fans of the original story will pay to see it regardless of its quality. We see a lot of this in video games too (the milking of a franchise).
So... Knights of the Old Republic?
This game proves that it is indeed possible to have a great Star Wars story :) I'm personally not a fan of the game myself (not my kind of game), but I think I'd enjoy it if it were a film because the story is good.
But since episode VII is set too close to the events of the original trilogy, it will be more difficult for them to make a great story. KOTOR was set so distant from the original trilogy that they could do what they wanted without worrying about having any effect on the original story, lol.
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Final Verdict: Aeris is preferred, but incorrect. Aerith is correct, but not preferred. (something we all knew to begin with lol)
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The main reason for using Aeris I could see is that it is actually a Latin word, and as such sounds natural to many people speaking Latin-derived languages. As somebody else has already said, Aerith soundth like she hath a lithp - because it's not a word sound you expect to encounter often, in English, anyway.
Obviously the developers get to say what is "correct", they're the original authors. Doesn't mean it sounds better in non-Japanese languages. After all, Terra in FF6 is in no way a "correct" translation of the Japanese name (Tina) - it was chosen because it worked better in English, which is no bad thing.
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Obviously the developers get to say what is "correct", they're the original authors. Doesn't mean it sounds better in non-Japanese languages. After all, Terra in FF6 is in no way a "correct" translation of the Japanese name (Tina) - it was chosen because it worked better in English, which is no bad thing.
There's a big difference here, though. That change was made on purpose. I can't remember why, offhand, but I know I read an explanation of what Woolsey had in mind. Aeris, on the other hand, was a goof, a change made by accident.
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It was an accident in that they didn't have any specific reason we know of to make their decision, but they didn't just pick the name out of thin air - the translators knew that it could have been translated as either Aeris or Aerith. I suppose we don't know that they didn't just flip a coin when originally deciding which one to go with, but it's pretty plausible they picked the one that sounded best to them. It's what they did with other names, after all - we need an English equivalent to this name, these are the options that are reasonably close to the Japanese version, what sounds best?
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I played the French game before the English one, and, I can say, the mistakes are worse at many points. There's even a dialogue in the game that was left in English. They renamed Cloud to Clad, apparently so it would be better for people who don't speak English. Aeris was left as is (except for an acute accent, making it Aéris) but translation - as far as I know - is way worse. I've always written Aerith and said Aeris, because that's how it should be written and said (Aerisu is the correct spelling, right?), Sephiroth and said Sephiros.
LostWing: I see what you did there.
Damn, Covarr ninja'd me. Son of a submariner you
Damnit Iros did it too.
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I played the French game before the English one, and, I can say, the mistakes are worse at many points. There's even a dialogue in the game that was left in English.
Wait ... you mean the French version was translated from the English version, not directly from the Japanese? That ... sounds awkward.
Although I guess you can't say that for sure just from that one thing, there could be other explanations?
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There's a big difference here, though. That change was made on purpose. I can't remember why, offhand, but I know I read an explanation of what Woolsey had in mind. Aeris, on the other hand, was a goof, a change made by accident.
The reason was that Tina is an ordinary name for English, but really exotic for Japanese. That's what I read anyway. As for the reason it ended up Aeris... well, given the choice between the two, I am willing to bet most people would think that's what the writers intended... but unfortunately, that proved to not be the case. That's why communication is essential. If I had been given Earisu (romaji of the kana) and asked to place it into the correct spelling, I would have also gone Aeris on the balance of probabilities. Unless, S is usually "so" in kana... I am not sure if that's the case, but su can be s for sure anyway.
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To be honest - if I'd been translating the game, and the developers had come back to me and said "No, it should be Aerith, not Aeris. Because it's based on 'Earth', right?", then my response would have been "Well, you're the boss. But ... you crazy, man. Maybe that works super well in Japanese, but if you're wanting to imply this name is something to do with earth, then both of those options are rubbish - because they begin with 'Aer', which is basically the root of probably hundreds of words in European languages that are all to do with air. But, you know, if you're stuck on this 'Aerith' thing because that's what you've already decided on, then fine..."
Evidently 'Aerith' is what the writers intended. Of course, there's sometimes a difference between what the Japanese authors decided on, and the impression it makes in English (http://baccano.wikia.com/wiki/Jacuzzi_Splot)...
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FFVII was first translated from Japanese to English, and then all other official re-translations (French, Spanish and German as far as I'm aware) are translated from the English game. I didn't know that myself before Covarr told me, but that's how it looks like.
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FFVII was first translated from Japanese to English, and then all other official re-translations (French, Spanish and German as far as I'm aware) are translated from the English game. I didn't know that myself before Covarr told me, but that's how it looks like.
I didn't know I told you that. In fact, I didn't even know I knew that. It makes absolute perfect sense, but I hadn't thought of it until just now. You sure it wasn't someone else who told you?
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It is the case, unfortunately, whoever told you. Which compounds the problem even further.
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Quite sure it was you. I can try to grep logs later tonight.
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@Iros: I applaud you sir.
@Vgr: ;)
Great thread, really.
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I'm playing FF8 just now and I can't help but notice how the translation is so much better. Not only from Japanese to English, but also from English to other languages. (Note: Spoilers ahead) For example, you have to get, among other items, 6 Steel Pipes to summon Doomtrain. In the Occult Fan I, it says someone from Timber was building a fence with steel pipes (of course referring to the item). In French, the item is named Samadhi (where the hell did that come from?) and, in the Occult Fan I, it says the person was in Samadhi, a yoga posture.
That was the main thing that made me realize how careful the translators were for FF8.
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Basically... the main problem is that success=profit, and that, for most writers and film makers, trumps quality. Instead of just ending a movie or franchise, they realise they can make uber millions with crappy additions. I guess it isn't all their fault... I mean, people keep buying it so.
Hey DLPB,
You ever see Mr. Plinkett's reviews of the Star Wars Prequels?
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/ (http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/)
He does the best job I've ever seen of explaining what's wrong with those films. I completely agree it's a monetary thing. There's this great documentary on the DVD/Blu-Ray version of Episode One about the making of it where everyone sits down and watches the cut of the film. The audience is so shocked by how terrible it is that they're speechless. Even Lucas admits there's too much going on before back pedaling and claiming it's the greatest thing ever.
This is where it begins:
http://youtu.be/j8sBsnYNucM?t=54m40s (http://youtu.be/j8sBsnYNucM?t=54m40s)
BTW, really looking forward to see your translation get finished. While I'm partial to Aeris, I understand where you're coming from and it's ridiculous that anyone is giving you crap for it. While some of the mistranslations are pretty funny, it really pulls you out of the game when you see "Do, what now?" (reminds me of meatwad!!!). But, fanboys and fangirls are just that. It's like trying to convince a brick wall to grow wings and fly away. You can try, but you'll just end up feeling like you wasted your time.
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I love Plinkett! Really gets to the heart of the problems with films. 8) and does it in a really cool way. Plus he is funny as f. And yeah, you are right. :)