Videogames and Violence

[The Seer of Shadows]

It suddenly occurred to me that it would be very interesting to find out what people here think about this kind of thing.

Do videogames inspire violence?  Or are people just acting out about it?  Apparently, "official research" on the subject produces mixed results, and it comes down to opinion more than anything else.

I did some internet searching and was bombarded with conflicting evidence (which was to be expected, I guess).  There's a nice long list of disturbing one-off cases on Wikipedia, but I don't think "Grand Theft Auto III-inspired shootings" are representative of the general reaction to violent videogame exposure.

Actually, just looking at overall stats for the USA, it appears that crime in general has been decreasing incrementally ever since 1991, and the introduction of infamous games targeted for violent inspiration has had no obvious effect on the trend.  (I've found a number of sources that state this argument - here's one that's nice and easy to read, although you could question the objectivity of the article.)

I've seen several articles claiming that videogames have helped to reduce violence.  It could be that videogames act as an outlet for violence rather than an inspiration.  But then again, does a general decrease in crime rates really prove anything about videogame-inspired violence?

My critiquing of evidence has probably turned a few of you off now.  Sorry about that


The way I see it, it's like stress affecting your chances of getting heart disease.  Videogames inspiring violence is just an observed correlation, without there being any real proof that the relationship actually exists.  I think it's quite possible that there is a correlation, but several other factors (genetics, bad childhood, self-esteem, all that stuff) need to compound with it in order for the effect to come through.

Anyway.  I wanted to post this to find out what the general opinion is around here, this being a forum dedicated to a videogame and all.  Are videogames to blame for violent behavior?  On any level at all?

[Kudistos Megistos]

Apparently, Osama bin Laden has a PlayStation, so video games obviously cause violence

Jari has made threads like this quite a few times, and the result has always been a consensus that there is no evidence that video games are to blame for youth violence. One documentary suggested the opposite, although it was by Penn and Teller, which is an entertainment programme with a sceptical key demographic, so it's worth taking with a pinch of salt.

We should also look at the correlation between video games and violence around the world. Grolious Nippon is the home of sick fuckery, but has some of the lowest levels of violence. Countries without video games have the highest levels of violence, and Western countries are somewhere in the middle.  Obviously there are lots of other huge factors here, but it at least proves that video games do not have the kind of detrimental effect on society that some claim; if they did chikans would be the least of people's worries on Tokyo trains.

The same argument can be made about claims by the unholy alliance of Christfags and femnazis that pornography leads to rape and violence against women; the countries with the most porn and the most fucked up porn have low levels of violence and serious sexual assault whereas the most sexually repressive are the most dangerous for women.

[jeffdamann]

I saw a disturbing trend in porn the otherday, It was an ad on the side of a site and it was a video ad. It displayed a very large man vs maybe 110 lb woman and it showed him hit her a few times and throw her down(it was acting but she had to have actually hurt herself when her head bounced of the cabinet, and he proceeded to do unmentionable things to her lol.

My point is, is this an acceptable form of pornography? I dont think so in my opinion.Sorry to be off topic but kudistos made me think of it.

As far as violence and games go, I have never once seen a real life incedent or even HEARD of someone planning to do something similar to a game even joking, but thats just me...

[Chocobo_Girl]

Well I get gamers rage sometimes which makes me angry but I would never take out my anger on anyone. =P At worst I'd punch a wall or something, but I've never gotten gamers rage so bad that I had to punch something. XD

If I had to argue that games *do* make people violent, I would argue that when gamers get frustrated for failing at games they might take out their anger using violence towards people, or something. But in this case it's the gamer having anger management, not really the video game's fault... cuz I don't think anyone in their right mind would let a game piss them off so much that they'd want to hurt or kill someone o.o *shrugs*

[ScottMcTony]

The same argument can be made about claims by the unholy alliance of Christfags and femnazis that pornography leads to rape and violence against women; the countries with the most porn and the most f*cked up porn have low levels of violence and serious sexual assault whereas the most sexually repressive are the most dangerous for women.

What sooner came to mind for me was how there's a very strong positive correlation between religiosity and violence by location, although for at least two reasons that's a bit less comparable.

If I had to argue that games *do* make people violent, I would argue that when gamers get frustrated for failing at games they might take out their anger using violence towards people, or something. But in this case it's the gamer having anger management, not really the video game's fault... cuz I don't think anyone in their right mind would let a game piss them off so much that they'd want to hurt or kill someone o.o *shrugs*

Not to mention, this would make Kaizo Marior or IWBTG about a million times more likely to cause violence than GTA.

[nfitc1]

The same argument can be made about claims by the unholy alliance of Christfags and femnazis that pornography leads to rape and violence against women; the countries with the most porn and the most f*cked up porn have low levels of violence and serious sexual assault whereas the most sexually repressive are the most dangerous for women.

This is Freudianism in a nutshell. Since all humans are sexual they crave to fulfill that desire. It just happens that more males attack females because of the way a man is wired. Give them another outlet, like legal pornography (which I don't endorse), and they'll tend to flock to that. There are some that watching it makes them want to do it more, but I think most people say they're in the minority.
As Elizabethan as most religious groups are it's really stifling to tell people that those natural God-given carnal cravings are bad. Just because ONE of the main writers of the New Testament was misogynistic doesn't mean we all have to forsake our natures as sexual beings. There are ways to keep it pure and not repress it.

Anyway, back to violence. It's pretty much the same thing. The people that are the most violent just want control. It doesn't really matter what over. Usually if they don't have control they'll get violent. Again, give them a legal outlet.... I've seen statistics that say the number of cases of Grand Theft Auto went down (or at least didn't increase) when the games of the same name were released.

[Kudistos Megistos]

I saw a disturbing trend in porn the otherday, It was an ad on the side of a site and it was a video ad. It displayed a very large man vs maybe 110 lb woman and it showed him hit her a few times and throw her down(it was acting but she had to have actually hurt herself when her head bounced of the cabinet, and he proceeded to do unmentionable things to her lol.

My point is, is this an acceptable form of pornography? I dont think so in my opinion.Sorry to be off topic but kudistos made me think of it.

Completely acceptable. It's all consensual, and the woman probably enjoyed it, so I don't see the problem; some people get turned on by hurting people and an even larger proportion get turned on by being hurt. These people are usually smart enough to know the difference between consensual S&M and consensual violence and tend to have enough control over their emotions than the dumbfucks who actually do engage in non-consensual violence. Even if this weren't the case, I can't see any justification for claims some people make about this stuff needing to be banned. There is no justification for banning anything that only depicts consenting adults, and I  suspect that questionable claims about such material encouraging violence are attempts to cover up the fact that people are campaigning against this kind of porn just because they don't like it. If we go down that road, I should argue for making TV programmes featuring Simon Cowell illegal. Why? Because I don't like them.

As far as violence and games go, I have never once seen a real life incedent or even HEARD of someone planning to do something similar to a game even joking, but thats just me...

I imagine that any cases of people actually imitating violence in a game come from fucked up people who were going to commit crimes anyway and only imitated the method, rather than the actual crime itself. For example, I once heard a case of some kids killing someone and cutting off his ears, a la Reservoir Dogs. If they hadn't watched the film, they'd probably have committed a murder anyway but done it differently.

[Chocobo_Girl]

I imagine that any cases of people actually imitating violence in a game come from f*cked up people who were going to commit crimes anyway and only imitated the method, rather than the actual crime itself. For example, I once heard a case of some kids killing someone and cutting off his ears, a la Reservoir Dogs. If they hadn't watched the film, they'd probably have committed a murder anyway but done it differently.

You reminded me of these two kids who committed a crime under the names of Sephiroth and Reno in Germany. Probably old news but yeah, FF7 got banned in Germany cuz of it. http://kotaku.com/229049/germanys-latest-killer-game-final-fantasy-vii

Even if they hadn't named themselves Sephiroth and Reno, I'm pretty sure they would have committed the crime anyway. -_-

[sl1982]

Reminds me of the guy that loved his tentacle porn so much that he went and tried to graft octopus tentacles on to his arms.

[Kudistos Megistos]

I imagine that any cases of people actually imitating violence in a game come from f*cked up people who were going to commit crimes anyway and only imitated the method, rather than the actual crime itself. For example, I once heard a case of some kids killing someone and cutting off his ears, a la Reservoir Dogs. If they hadn't watched the film, they'd probably have committed a murder anyway but done it differently.

You reminded me of these two kids who committed a crime under the names of Sephiroth and Reno in Germany. Probably old news but yeah, FF7 got banned in Germany cuz of it. http://kotaku.com/229049/germanys-latest-killer-game-final-fantasy-vii

Even if they hadn't named themselves Sephiroth and Reno, I'm pretty sure they would have committed the crime anyway. -_-

Exactly!

The only thing the game did was give them ideas for names.

This case actually makes me think we should ban the Bible. I mean, I'm sure lots of people have committed crimes and given themselves a name related to Satan. If we ban video games because criminals name themselves after the game's baddies, does that mean we should ban the Bible because criminals name themselves after the Bible's baddies?

BTW, I heard about that story in one of the aforementioned threads by Jari about video games and violence:

FF7 ist ein Killerspiel!

Reminds me of the guy that loved his tentacle porn so much that he went and tried to graft octopus tentacles on to his arms.

You heard about that?! God Dammit David, I told you not to let anyone know about that!

[Chocobo_Girl]

Reminds me of the guy that loved his tentacle porn so much that he went and tried to graft octopus tentacles on to his arms.

I must meet him.

[Bosola]

Videogames have emphatically not cultivated violence and aggression on my part. Anyone who thinks otherwise can visit me in person, where I'll promptly seize their hand, rip it apart in the manner of how a banana in peeled, and slam the blooded stump through their nasal cavity.

[Kudistos Megistos]

Reminds me of the guy that loved his tentacle porn so much that he went and tried to graft octopus tentacles on to his arms.

I must meet him.

Tentacle porn should be banned! It makes people turn into giant squids and rape loli!

Obviously, the statistics don't support this, but that's because our anti-loli police frighten little girls off and the crimes are under-reported!

Videogames have emphatically not cultivated violence and aggression on my part. Anyone who thinks otherwise can visit me in person, where I'll promptly seize their hand, rip it apart in the manner of how a banana in peeled, and slam the blooded stump through their nasal cavity.

I came

[yoshi314]

just as watching porn gives men weird ideas about women and sex in general, violent video games mind give you weird ideas about world you live in.

as long as you don't take games too seriously, you should be fine.

unfortunately, there are people who tend not to notice the separating line. it's not a black-white separation and there are many different cases. but it's not common to see fps addicted teenagers that have anger-management problems.

[Kudistos Megistos]

unfortunately, there are people who tend not to notice the separating line. it's not a black-white separation and there are many different cases. but it's not common to see fps addicted teenagers that have anger-management problems.

I think you're getting cause and effect mixed up. I'd say that teenagers with anger management problems are more likely to go for FPS games.

I also wonder whether FPS games appeal more to certain demographics, namely teenage boys, who are known for having anger management problems.

[The Seer of Shadows]

Ever wonder if people say that videogames inspire their crimes just for the sake of having a believable insanity defense?

Also,

I also wonder whether FPS games appeal more to certain demographics, namely teenage boys, who are known for having anger management problems.

*cough*

*cough*

(That avatar should become the new trollface.)

As for the tentacle man, that's creepy

[sl1982]

LOL

[Kudistos Megistos]

*cough*

*cough*

(That avatar should become the new trollface.)

I love you

As for the tentacle man, that's creepy

Hey guys, lay off. I've already had to spend years talking to psychiatrists because of my tentacle adventure

[obesebear]

(That avatar should become the new trollface.)

My vote would definitely be for it to become the unsuccessful troll face.

[The Seer of Shadows]

It should be made the avatar of people who get banned!

[Chocobo_Girl]

It should be made the avatar of people who get banned!

That'd be harsh. =P

[Opine]

I'll believe that violent video games increase violence when I start noticing an increase of people attempting to become superheros.

[nikfrozty]

I believe that videogames which are violent can affect some people but more on children who is not well guarded by their parents. GTA should be played over 18+ right?? If a 5 yr old plays the game he will probably try to do the same thing in the real world when he grow up.