Author Topic: A Perfect AC Cloud Model  (Read 66520 times)

Fischkopf

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #50 on: 2012-07-10 10:09:17 »

The only way for anybody on this site to release a model of a character is to get direct permission from SquareEnix and that will never officially happen as they have already said that FF7 will be left alone. No re-release, No-remake they want to keep the game as the classic it was, Final

Square recently stated that there WILL be a FFVII remake, if they can produce a game which surpasses the success of FVII, which is very unlikely obviously.

Before you call me a liar, the source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/26/square-enix-reveals-conditions-for-final-fantasy-vii-remake

Covarr

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #51 on: 2012-07-10 16:04:56 »
Square recently stated that there WILL be a FFVII remake, if they can produce a game which surpasses the success of FVII, which is very unlikely obviously.
No they didn't. They stated that there WON'T be a FF7 remake before they finished it. "If Not X then Not Y" does not translate to "If X then Y".
« Last Edit: 2012-07-10 16:07:21 by Covarr »

Fischkopf

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #52 on: 2012-07-10 22:49:12 »
Which means exactly the same...

Covarr

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #53 on: 2012-07-10 23:16:55 »
No, it doesn't. Let me give you another example of this logic in action to make it a bit clearer.

Say I make the claim "If I am not bitten by a radioactive spider, I will not become Spider-Man." Does this mean that if I am bitten by one, I will become Spider-Man? No. In fact, chances are that getting bitten by a radioactive spider would just give me cancer.

This is the same sort of logic. They said they would not make one before they outdo it, but this does not necessarily mean they will after. It simply means that this is a condition which must be met before they even consider it.

Recko

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #54 on: 2012-07-11 03:03:20 »
no they also said they cant waste resources re-making a already successful game and that it would take them too long to even re-make the game and the concern that the cost would out do the actual sales. In other words they aernt going to do it because they dont want to waste resources on it
« Last Edit: 2012-07-11 03:07:26 by Recko »

Fischkopf

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #55 on: 2012-07-11 13:50:43 »
No, it doesn't. Let me give you another example of this logic in action to make it a bit clearer.

Say I make the claim "If I am not bitten by a radioactive spider, I will not become Spider-Man." Does this mean that if I am bitten by one, I will become Spider-Man? No. In fact, chances are that getting bitten by a radioactive spider would just give me cancer.

This is the same sort of logic. They said they would not make one before they outdo it, but this does not necessarily mean they will after. It simply means that this is a condition which must be met before they even consider it.

Why did nobody tell me this in the first place? I have been talking like that for years.

Hijacker

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #56 on: 2012-07-13 12:28:27 »
In defense of people crowing for a remake, S-E has been a bit convoluted in their answers over the years.

http://kotaku.com/386438/ffvii-director-on-chances-of-a-remake
Cliffs: Kitase says that the only way they'll be able to make it is once production on FF XIII and other large productions were done and the core team could be reassembled.  The result is false hope coming from an excuse as to why it can't happen.

http://kotaku.com/5476141/kitase-ffvii-remake-only-possible-if-it-can-be-done-in-a-year
Cliffs: We'd love to do it, says S-E, but we don't know if we can do it in a justifiable time frame.  Wada didn't help his case saying that S-E will look into making it.

That's only a few articles I found on Kotaku.  S-E has a habit of trying to placate fans while not committing to anything.  The general theme of the articles seem to go "We want to do this, but we're not sure it's feasible due to -insert random poor excuse-".  At one point, Kitase said it would take 10 times the time of production for XIII.  So, 30-40 years?  Obviously a gross over exaggeration, but you get the idea.

My plan for people crying for a remake will be to point them to the PC re-release and then tell them to get HD mods (once it's confirmed that the re-release is modable like the original release).

Fischkopf

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #57 on: 2012-07-14 22:12:06 »
In defense of people crowing for a remake, S-E has been a bit convoluted in their answers over the years.

http://kotaku.com/386438/ffvii-director-on-chances-of-a-remake
Cliffs: Kitase says that the only way they'll be able to make it is once production on FF XIII and other large productions were done and the core team could be reassembled.  The result is false hope coming from an excuse as to why it can't happen.

http://kotaku.com/5476141/kitase-ffvii-remake-only-possible-if-it-can-be-done-in-a-year
Cliffs: We'd love to do it, says S-E, but we don't know if we can do it in a justifiable time frame.  Wada didn't help his case saying that S-E will look into making it.

That's only a few articles I found on Kotaku.  S-E has a habit of trying to placate fans while not committing to anything.  The general theme of the articles seem to go "We want to do this, but we're not sure it's feasible due to -insert random poor excuse-".  At one point, Kitase said it would take 10 times the time of production for XIII.  So, 30-40 years?  Obviously a gross over exaggeration, but you get the idea.

My plan for people crying for a remake will be to point them to the PC re-release and then tell them to get HD mods (once it's confirmed that the re-release is modable like the original release).

If they want a game, nearly as successful as FFVII, square to stop dumbing down their games...

They have to make the games less linear (and bring back the freaking world map! also the vehicles...) Also:

get better story writers, Do LESS cinematics (we don't want to watch a movie after all, that's not even exciting), add more side quests, various story branches and multiple endings, add easter eggs and secrets, something like gold-saucer (but don't overdo it with the mini-games), a combat system like FFVII or Golden Sun just with updated graphics (imagine how the summons could look like now) MATERIA-like SYSTEM.

If they don't do that, they're not authorized to complain, why nobody buys it.  ;D

There's a reason after all, why FFVII was so successful...

My plan for people crying for a remake will be to point them to the PC re-release and then tell them to get HD mods (once it's confirmed that the re-release is modable like the original release).

I'm kinda afraid that they will protect the re-release version against modding....

« Last Edit: 2012-07-14 22:16:04 by Fischkopf »

BloodShot

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #58 on: 2012-07-14 23:06:03 »

(all this from a Top Lawyer i know)

lol

This "top lawyer" better go back to law school, considering names can't be copyrighted.

Hijacker

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #59 on: 2012-07-18 21:53:46 »
lol

This "top lawyer" better go back to law school, considering names can't be copyrighted.

Names can be trademarked.  So it's feasible that the lawyer friend told him that, but it was regurgitated as copyrighted.

Squaresoft copyrighted FFVII when it was released, and one would think that would lend protection to the characters as well.  Characters themselves are not directly protected, but given the way unfair competition laws are written, rights holders can claim an infringement if you drop a character into a new setting.  You can argue fair use most of the time (especially in the case of non-profit situations; fanfic, modding, etc).  I last studied copyright law in 2002, and given how much the digital landscape has changed law, I'm not 100% accurate on my copyright perspective anymore.

PH03N1XFURY

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #60 on: 2012-08-09 01:20:30 »
1 when did VGA turn into a d**khead he used to be a cool guy
2 ripping models is illegal when the company own a game which they dont as of 2008 because of licensing laws seen a SQUARE-SOFT did a merger in 2003 and and ff7 was made in the 90s and never reclaimed copyright for the game under square-enix they had five years to claim and it didnt happen all they own now is the brand final fantasy but any individual title before the merger is rightfully ours and thats the law also square wouldnt get on your back about it as it is eidos who owns the pc ff7 license which is now a sub company of square so enjoy

masterj360

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #61 on: 2012-10-06 22:13:39 »
Im not sure if this thread is dead or not, but none of this makes any sense. How can you say adding an AC cloud in FFVII is illegal when modifying the game is not? Technically speaking both are illegal b/c they conflict with Square Enix's Copy Rights and tampering their content without their permission. Its like trying to say its ok rob a store, but its not ok to rob a bank....

This forum is contradicting itself within its own rules. I think the real reason why the AC cloud is no longer available is b/c its a popular mod and was being over downloaded by this forum and other sites also permission was not granted to use it and the members of this forum  just didn't want the downloading traffic coming from this site. Modding this game is illegal period no matter how you try to splice it. Its just a poor excuse to say AC Cloud is illegal to use in this game, when you have other forums that mod games with characters outside the game on a daily basis. Its not like Square is gonna check on this site's action. You people are being over paranoid. Sorry if you think I'm rude, just speaking my mind with hard logical facts here.

Covarr

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #62 on: 2012-10-06 22:43:35 »
The problem isn't with modding things. The problem is with getting content from other games without owning the games. If someone wanted to make an AC-style Cloud model that was 100% original, that's fine. If they want to steal parts from Kingdom Hearts or Crisis Core, that's not; by distributing that model, they are distributing part of a commercial, copyrighted game. By distributing a completely original model, they are only redistributing their own work.

masterj360

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #63 on: 2012-10-06 23:06:57 »
But how do you know if the AC cloud was from another game or not? unless the uploader himself said otherwise. I don't know the full story about this incident, so maybe the distributor stole the work from the original creator besides Square. It just sounds funny to call a model import illegal when up scaling and re texturing a licensed game is also illegal and this forum supports that. I do understand what your coming from though stolen work is beyond toleration.

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #64 on: 2012-10-06 23:13:01 »
Look, you'll be able to argue this forever and ever, but the rules won't change.
And it's not too difficult to see if a model is actually ripped from another game or not. The easiest way to do so would be to do a side by side comparsion in blender, for example.

masterj360

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #65 on: 2012-10-06 23:24:56 »
I'm not trying to create a strike against the forum rules it just sounds blunt to say 1 thing is illegal and the other isn't, but it is. All I'm saying is that if taking down a mod that was illegally ripped, then whats stopping this forum from not taking down all the mods here that are illegally modifying the game? Your concerned about the legal rights, but at the same time this forum is supporting illegal modifications. I'm not arguing I'm just questioning the rules here b/c they seem to be positive/negative toward modding. Yea stealing is wrong and I agree, but you cant say redesigning a licensed game is ok without permission. For the record I have the AC Cloud Model, so don't mistaken me for pouting over a download link.

omega res novae

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #66 on: 2012-10-06 23:30:39 »
i know for a fact the ac cloud in kulas ac complete mod has a ripped texture form kh2.

masterj360

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #67 on: 2012-10-06 23:35:40 »
Even if it is my question still stands. I'm trying to figure out how illegal modifications, such as "Bootleg" is not as illegal toward a ripped model......

Covarr

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #68 on: 2012-10-06 23:55:37 »
There is nothing inherently illegal about modifying the game. The only reasons it could be illegal is if it:

1. Cracks DRM in some way.
2. Contains copyrighted content.

Regarding the second one: Most of our staff have the games these models are ripped from, and can easily check to see if a model is actually fan-made, or simply stolen from an official game. The reason bootleg is okay is because all of the content in it is made by Qhimm.com users. Kula's AC models are illegal because they contain content (models, textures, etc.) that has been STOLEN from other Square-Enix games, without permission.

So to reiterate: Modifications are not illegal, UNLESS THEY CONTAIN STOLEN CONTENT.

masterj360

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #69 on: 2012-10-07 01:23:18 »
ah so modifying a licensed game without permission from the company that created it is not illegal? hmmm.  I understand that bootleg was created by Qhimm, but I don't think Qhimm works for Square enough to put his models over their work. You see where I'm coming from? But since FFVII is such an old game honestly I don't think any of this really matters especially if its ripped models. I respect the forum rules don't get me wrong here. Its good to have debates

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #70 on: 2012-10-07 01:43:25 »
the ripped models are from much more recent games
such as Dissidia 012

Covarr

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #71 on: 2012-10-07 01:55:37 »
ah so modifying a licensed game without permission from the company that created it is not illegal? hmmm.
As long as you're not distributing a pre-modified copy of the game. This is why everything here requires the user to already have the game.

whitERaven

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #72 on: 2012-10-07 02:07:13 »
ah so modifying a licensed game without permission from the company that created it is not illegal? hmmm.  I understand that bootleg was created by Qhimm, but I don't think Qhimm works for Square enough to put his models over their work. You see where I'm coming from? But since FFVII is such an old game honestly I don't think any of this really matters especially if its ripped models. I respect the forum rules don't get me wrong here. Its good to have debates

I'm not an expert so you may take my opinion lightly..
I think modifying games is ok as long as you dont sell or distribute the said modifed games as your own. After all its impossible to make sure or keep track that the games you sold won't be modified.

With that logic I think this forum is safe.. since they are not selling or distributing a new modified FF7 Game.
they even require you buying the original ff7 game.
The only things distributed here are tools or contents that are originally made by forum members.

[EDIT] sorry for repeating what you just said covarr, we kinda post almost at the same time.LoL
« Last Edit: 2012-10-07 02:09:37 by whitERaven »

Bosola

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #73 on: 2012-10-07 02:27:22 »
I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here.

The gist of the rule is: don't distribute copyrighted content. Distributing mods that use textures from thinks like Crisis Core and the like means creating downloads that contain copyrighted content. But things like bootleg are fine because they only include homemade assets and / or patch files (that can only be used with the original content). The downloads for these mods contain nothing Square originally created, so they're fine.

To clarify - there's nothing against the rules about taking a model and putting it into a game in your own home. That's fine. Knock yourself out. The problem comes when you provide download links that themselves contain those assets - that's not so fine.
« Last Edit: 2012-10-07 02:31:37 by Bosola »

masterj360

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Re: A Perfect AC Cloud Model
« Reply #74 on: 2012-10-07 03:54:47 »
ok guys thanks for the clearing that up. Too bad the AC Cloud is ripped for what its worth its the best mod made of Cloud despite it being illegal.