to much FFVII hate

[Jaitsu]

had some time to kill and so just for fun, looked up final fantasy 7 on google.

my god theres so many idiotic haters out there.

people seem to hate on it just because its one of the mainstream games, i found it rather stupid to be honest, if it wasn't people complaining about cloud being "emo" then it was them saying the storyline didn't make sense. i had to stop myself from signing up on forums just to tell them off.

i can respect someone not liking the game, but the needless hate is idiotic, one guy had this huge monalogue about how the entire game of FFVII blows because of cait sith.

i will admit, other than the idea of a remake (i'm one of the guys who supports a remake on certain conditions) that i think that FFVII has had trouble given to it by its "compilation" mostly due to the huge changes (such as Clouds personality in advent) but i also know, that this game was a big thing that helped open the way for 3D (not saying it was the only thing, but it definately is in the list). the really funny thing was people trying to make an arguement about FF12 being better, at that point i had to stop to laugh.

[Timu Sumisu]

I whole heartedly agree that a large portion of ff7 hate comes from the compilation. Many people got into ff7 by the time AC and others were out, and had the images of the characters portrayed in sequels and movies engrained in their mind. For us oldfags who played ff7 on release, Cloud was a tough badass, and had barely the slightest hint of emo (emo style stuff, hadnt quite hit mainstream yet then nehow ). Additionally, his identity crisis and conflict ended up solidifying his confidence and direction for the remainder of the game. Its unfortunate how he went from  being on a level of protagonist level with solid snake and auron, to a whiny kid with a giant sword o.o

[Kudistos Megistos]

Yes, we know. There are some people with an almost religious hatred of FF7; they seem to devote their lives to hating it. These people make Hermoor's hatred of FF7 look extremely mild. I think most of these people decided that they hated FF7 before they played it (because it made their little niche genre mainstream), and then played it just so that they could find flaws and intentionally misunderstand the story.

Just take it as a compliment. FF7 has made people more butthurt than any video game in history, and it's all because FF7 is more successful than their crappy favourite game. At some point during their ranting, these people will always admit that they hate FF7 for being more popular than a game they like. Hermoor did this; when it came down to it, Hermoor admitted that what bothered him about FF7 was that it got more attention than the other games. Well bawww; someone call a waaaahhhhmbulance!

Oh, and it has nothing to do with the Compilation. The Compilation just gave extra ammunition for those who hated the game and were willing to give up intellectual honesty (i.e. everyone who hated the game); as soon as AC and CC came out, they could pretend that Cloud and Sephiroth from those game were Cloud and Sephiroth from the original, and pretend that the original, which was bright and colourful, was grey and emo. Hermoor's confusion between FF7 and Crisis Core is an example of this.

[Jaitsu]

These people make Hermoor's hatred of FF7 look extremely mild.

O.O IMPOSSIBLE

[Kudistos Megistos]

No, they do.

They don't make Hermoor look sane, because Hermoor's hatred of FF7 was only one of the things that made him crazy. Hermoor has them beaten when it comes to batshit insanity overall, but there are lots of people who hate FF7 far more than he does and for even more retarded reasons.

[Jaitsu]

all i can really say is that its similar in a way to the Genji Series. first game: not so many knew about it.

but the ps3 second game gave us the memorable "massive damage" meme, and now i find some people saying how stupid it is. (i use this as an example, albeit a bad one, because i absolutely loved the first Genji)

[Covarr]

Much of it comes from people thinking in black and white. Somebody says "Final Fantasy VII is overrated" (which it is), and logically concludes that means it sucks, when really all it means is that it is good instead of great. Because OBVIOUSLY not great = horrible and awful in every way.

[Kudistos Megistos]

OBVIOUSLY not great = horrible and awful in every way.

Hype backlash, eh?

I'm very confused as to why it's called overrated. I mean, whenever I see anyone talk about it, they either call it worse than the holocaust, or, it they admit to liking it, there are a million games which are better. Sounds like FF7 is underrated.

I'd also like to see which games people think are so much better. FF7 is extremely heavily scrutinised by people who want to find things to hate about it (I once saw someone with a list of 100 reasons why Sephiroth is overrated; apparently this person has spent years of his life reserching FF7's flaws). I'll bet that these games have been largely left alone because no-one is really that butthurt about them. If Chrono Trigger, Ocarina of Time and FF6 had as many obsessive haters, I think they'd find some serious flaws as well.

[Covarr]

OBVIOUSLY not great = horrible and awful in every way.

Hype backlash, eh?

I'm very confused as to why it's called overrated. I mean, whenever I see anyone talk about it, they either call it worse than the holocaust, or, it they admit to liking it, there are a million games which are better. Sounds like FF7 is underrated.

I'd also like to see which games people think are so much better. FF7 is extremely heavily scrutinised by people who want to find things to hate about it (I once saw someone with a list of 100 reasons why Sephiroth is overrated; apparently this person has spent years of his life reserching FF7's flaws). I'll bet that these games have been largely left alone because no-one is really that butthurt about them. If Chrono Trigger, Ocarina of Time and FF6 had as many obsessive haters, I think they'd find some serious flaws as well.

Well, it's not so overrated as it used to be, from its release up until about 2005-ish. But there was a time when everybody seemed to think it was the absolute best game ever, period.

But the best game ever isn't an RPG. It's a zombie apocalypse game by Valve (with melee weapons).

As for OoT, that has no business being thought of as the best game. Twilight Princess is better, people only think it's worse because it's not as good as their glorified memories of OoT. And most of the people who think FF6 is the best are just FF7 haters, only a few of them actually seem to make sense most of the time.

[Kudistos Megistos]

And most of the people who think FF6 is the best are just FF7 haters, only a few of them actually seem to make sense most of the time.

FF6 fanboys are the worst in the world. I'm aware that there are some people who love the game and have triple figure IQs, but generally, they're the most hateful, arrogant and butthurt group in the whole of videogame fandom, and the ones who are most likely to say that their favourite game is the best game EVAR! Nearly all of the most retarded "FF7 sucks because of [insert ridiculous or factually inaccurate reason here]" come from people who have Kefka in their usernames.

I once had an argument with a FF6 fanboy, not on which game was better, but on whether the opinions of FF7 fans are worth as much as those of FF6 fans. He came out with almost every logical fallacy, sophistic technique and form of conformation bias that had a name (and he probably created a few new ones), and refused to admit either that FF7 fans were allowed to have an opinion or that it was not an objective truth that FF6 was better than FF7. I eventually gave up and called him an idiot. He whined to the admins. I cut my stay at that forum short.

[Travis]

I got into an argument with an FF6 guy one time for commenting on an old youtube account of mine. Let me get that argument....

This all started when I made a top final fantasy villains list. Kefka was number 2, Sephiroth was number 1. A bit later a second guy joins in to bash me...

That guy
" How you put Sephiroth at #1 is so ridiculous. What is his real motivation? The guy has no real personality. Do we know his dreams? Do we know his conviction? Do his actions make a statement that force the characters in the story to truly think of their lives, their strengths? How does Sephiroth do anything but bring out the emo in Cloud? He's weak, and the only reason you kids love him is because it was the first 3d RPG you ever played. It's pathetic.  "

Me
"I asked that you do not bash my opinion. So therefore I shall make a counterpoint. If you look into the game more you will notice that you don't see sephiroth till your visit to the northern crater. You are pursuing Jenova disguised as sephiroth. Jenova is the emotionless one. Also, sephiroth makes cloud remember why he is fighting. Get over yourself and quit commenting. "

That Guy
"Feel free to disable comments like the others who cannot defend their positions if the existence of other human beings annoys you so much. You have an emotionless enemy without any real motivation other than being "the big bad". Sephiroth being a partial male love interest with silver hair who is as exotic to the player as he is Cloud due to his APPEARANCE alone. Little is known about him or why he or Jenova are what they are, beyond merely being evil. Sorry, the truth sucks."

Me
"Sorry, but I can defend my position, try playing Crisis Core.

So what is kefka... I have no background on him. I just know he is mad due to an experiment gone wrong. What can you say about him before hand? I can say plenty about Sephiroth..."

At this point the first guy stops posting because he knows he has been beaten. I did not disable comments nor did I block him. So, a second guy decides to start joining in...

2nd Guy
"Play FF6 then, Kefka ENDS THE WORLD nuff said"

Me
" Ok I have played FF6... why else would I put a final boss on here if I didn't play it...

Kefka didn't end the world... he just ruined it. There was just a BANG and it was over. The people didn't really expect it unless you count the floating continent as a flag-raiser. With Sephiroth the people knew it was coming to an end and had to sit and suffer for it. Many lived out their dreams or did other things before it ended. Luckily the planet protected itself"

2nd Guy
"In FF7 the planet protected itself, in FF6 the planet became the world of ruin. FF7 The people recovered from it hence the whole Advent Children, DoC and the 500 years later scene. In FF6 almost all the people were killed, giant ass monsters covered the planet and all magic was destroyed when Kefka was killed. Kefka ended the world. That planet that FF6 takes place on doesn't recover in 500 years like 7's world does. It at least had to take 2000 plus years. So yea."

Me
"because you know it took exactly 2000 plus years..."

2nd Guy
"It's a rough esteem"

Me
"you mean estimate... Sorry, but if you want to really take into account it would probably take 10-20 years, no more than 40.

You are just mad that my opinion differs from yours."

I think I did FF7 justice. If you want the actual argument, I can link you.

[Kudistos Megistos]

>Kefka fanboy criticising Sephiroth for not having a good motivation



Seriously, Kefka's motivation for what he does seems to be "hurr I hate everything, durr I want to destroy the world, hate hate hate hate hate herp derp". A child could have come up with something better. Curiously, this extreme lack of personality and motivation seems to be one of the reasons why many of the more "challenged" FF6 fans think he is *good*.

When you look at Kefka's characterisation and story in the game, you'll see that he's actually an incredibly bad villain. He has very little personality and a very clichéd and simplistic reason for being evil, and his attitude towards evil deeds and murder is one of quantity over quality.

[nikfrozty]

I saw some people on youtube implying that FF6 should be done as a remake rather then FF7 because it has better story. They said Cloud was gay and Sephiroth is not a cool character and sucked because he did not fight Cloud's party but instead used Jenova.

[Kudistos Megistos]

I'd love to see the butthurt if Square remade FF6 and ruined it the way that they ruined FF7. Seeing the fanboys react to an emo Kefka wearing black and crying about his heart being nothing but a black abyss would be priceless.

[Travis]

I'd love to see the butthurt if Square remade FF6 and ruined it the way that they ruined FF7. Seeing the fanboys react to an emo Kefka wearing black and crying about his heart being nothing but a black abyss would be priceless.

The worst fanboys would suck it up and say it was the greatest thing to ever happen despite that.

And besides... I like Kefka now, but when I first played final fantasy 6 and saw him, I seriously thought... wow this guy sucks, he is annoying and looks retarded.

[Covarr]

He has very little personality

No. He's got plenty of personality, just no real development or backstory. He's definitely a FUN villain, just not one with a good motive.

and a very clichéd and simplistic reason for being evil

Yes. Insanity is overdone. Kudos for correctly including the "d" at the end of the word "clichéd", a lot of people miss it.

and his attitude towards evil deeds and murder is one of quantity over quality.

How is this a bad thing? You get more done when you're not wasting time trying to think of the perfect murder.

[Jaitsu]

as stated in the link from kudistos, i can't stand all these "kefka is better then sephiroth" arguements, i'll admit, kefka is a great villian, he personifies evil clowns , but people always say for instance "kefka caused more distruction", the only reason sephiroth didn't cause more is because he was stopped before he could, if he had managed to make sure the whole of meteor struck the planet, people go bye-bye. Sephiroth used his own "mother" to do most of his dirty work, now how many of us can honestly say that would not be awesome?

[Covarr]

i can't stand all these "kefka is better then sephiroth" arguements

The two are entirely incomparable. They're so different, it's virtually impossible to say one is better. They're both awesome, IMO.

Sephiroth used his own "mother" to do most of his dirty work

Not necessarily. IMO it seems entirely possible, particularly based on his desire to destroy the planet, that Jenova is in control and Sephiroth is just a vessel.

[Jaitsu]

i can't stand all these "kefka is better then sephiroth" arguements

The two are entirely incomparable. They're so different, it's virtually impossible to say one is better. They're both awesome, IMO.

Sephiroth used his own "mother" to do most of his dirty work

Not necessarily. IMO it seems entirely possible, particularly based on his desire to destroy the planet, that Jenova is in control and Sephiroth is just a vessel.

though near the end the jenova cells still existed, jenova in her physical and psychological form was annialated during the battle, i think, im my personal opinion, if she was under control, he woulda snapped back to reality

[Kudistos Megistos]

Are people calling Kefka a great villain to be diplomatic or because they actually believe it?

Really, I'm asking. What makes Kefka a passable villain, let alone a great one? His fanatics always say "herp derp Kefka's power level is over 9000 he would beat Sephiroth in a fight hurr durr he killed more people and that makes him the greatest villain evar!" but that's the kind of justification one expects from a small child who would, by the same logic, have to say that the Wachowski brothers are better at creating villains than Shakespeare. I don't see what makes him so good.

By the way, I don't think Sephiroth is the ultimate villain either, but Kefka makes Sephiroth look like a literary masterpiece.

EDIT:

I should really read all of the responses before I post

He has very little personality

No. He's got plenty of personality, just no real development or backstory. He's definitely a FUN villain, just not one with a good motive.

Really? His personality seemed to be a little simplistic to me. I suppose there's a way in which you could say that he has "character", but he's one-dimensional. Two-dimensional at best.

and his attitude towards evil deeds and murder is one of quantity over quality.

How is this a bad thing? You get more done when you're not wasting time trying to think of the perfect murder.

I'm mainly referring to the frequently made claim that Kefka is the better villain because he killed millions whereas Sephiroth just killed a flower girl (and a few townspeople). However, murders Kefka commits have very little impact because no-one cares about the people he kills. The flower girl killing by Sephiroth is a far better evil deed because of the literal and symbolic importance of the act for the FF7 world and because the timing, setup and buildup to it is brilliant*. There's also a bit of a "the death of one is a tragedy, but the death of millions is just a statistic" thing going on. When lots of anonymous people die, who cares? The numbers become meaningless. Hell, people are still crying about Aeris thirteen years later. I can't remember anyone crying over what Kefka did. That one, small act by Sephiroth has had more of an impact than all of the things Kefka did put together.

*I can do a very long spiel on why the killing of Aeris is so important. If you ask me to give it, you may regret it.

[Covarr]

He makes a good villain because he's got great dialogue (particularly in the GBA version). I wouldn't say he's a great villain, but dammit he's fun.

[Kudistos Megistos]

I didn't think his one-liners were funny

Well, I suppose he's fun in some ways , but that hardly justifies anything anywhere near the reverence he gets from his fans.

[Jaitsu]

he's a clown, clowns are funny, unless they have fangs, then they are scary TT_TT

[Travis]

Pennywise didn't have fangs... he was scary as hell.

[Jaitsu]

Pennywise didn't have fangs... he was scary as hell.

i always thought more along the lines of that one movie with aliens that look like clowns