Trolling Thread: For all your trolling needs

[Kudistos Megistos]

Kudistos.. Really dude?  We're not dumb.  It's blindingly obvious you still dislike DLPB.  Granted for the most part you've put the past behind you and tried to be civil, it seems any chance you get to call him out on something you do it.  Not just debating something he's decided is pure fact, but mocking and belittling him as well.  If you want to debate posts and show how your side is the only side worth caring about, fine, good, do it.  Personally, I love playing devil's advocate, but when you start slandering people, you start losing the respect of everyone witnessing it.

Akshully, before this thread, I'd had no more problems with Seifer than the average forum member. In fact, there were some cases in which I was on his side. Why don't you have a look at the old ATTN: Seifer Almasy thread and see how often my name pops up and how much baiting/gloating I do? Could it be that you are confusing me with Jari? Or perhaps you are confusing Seifer with Hermoor? I ask this because I really can't see why you are coming to the conclusion that my act of pointing out the weaknesses in Seifer's argument is motivated by some grudge. If anyone has the grudge here, I think it might be certain moderators who don't like certain members who have, in the past, questioned their decisions.

I know that facts haven't been regarded as very important in this debate, but there is still time to change that, instead of making wild and unfounded accusations.

DLPB posts his opinion as 100% fact, yet has ceased outright attacking people

I suggest you read the post right before yours. Do you not think that

You are a dyin' breed round these parts, and thank god for that.  If you want to act like a moron and fit in with your f*cked-up kind, I suggest you boogie on over to the Lifestream Forum.  You will find a lovely home there, for sure.  They will also agree with every crazy argument going, so you won't even need to argue.  IQ entrance fee <60.

is an outright attack?

DLPB, just because we're "on your side" right now

That's so obvious you don't even need to say it.

1000 words of seething hatred, just because I disagreed with him

So it's true. A leopard really can never change its spots.

It's funny that a have the moderators and a significant proportion of the forums gang up on me for a one line jibe, but all this gets is "you're as bad as he is".

[gotenksssj22002]

LOL  You can't be taken seriously really.  It is clear to everyone you are a troll who is a bit butt hurt that your best pal left (and only returns when there is trouble )   I will leave you to it.  You turned a simple argument about aviation safety into a character assassination and baiting exercise.  Ask Jari where that gets you these days.  I am not that idiot who was here before, I don't take it that seriously anymore and I can ignore it or laugh at it.  Not to mention the mods here now actually do something.  You are a dyin' breed round these parts, and thank god for that.  If you want to act like a moron and fit in with your f*cked-up kind, I suggest you boogie on over to the Lifestream Forum.  You will find a lovely home there, for sure.  They will also agree with every crazy argument going, so you won't even need to argue.  IQ entrance fee <60.

Seriously, you  need to learn to get your fun elsewhere.  This is a bit basic.  You have both got to such a point that you don't even care how obvious your trolling is...  it has become second nature to you.  While we are at it, trolling is a mental disorder and is strongly linked to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

In other words it makes you awful, bitter people; delighting in the trouble you cause.   All you serve to teach us in this thread is that you are not nice people and are both mentally disturbed.  Usually stems from childhood and upbringing.

What is there to gain by provocating him ?... ...Answer : nothing good.

That depends on how one defines "good".

If "good" to you means a flame-war and a troll-fest, yes, I can understand why you'd head into provocation territory. It's so fun, right ?

best thing is to leave him here talking to himself about how bad I am.    It is no good being an obvious troll, and it is obvious to everyone here that he takes opposite sides to stir up a bit of trouble   With that in mind, what use is it even arguing with him?  Let's move on because he is getting exactly what he set out to achieve. 

A familiar pattern around here is the ones who don't contribute anything to FF7 are the same ones who go round trolling.  Always stuck in this section bringing up as many things as possible to get a reaction.  It is sad...  but not surprising that Kud is a regular over at 4chan. 

He goes on about Hermoor 24/7 but is no better than him.  I suggest Kud and jari go and join him, they are more alike than they believe.

back to the topic:

The whole point of the statistical slant was to show that people who quote "Planes are the safest" are basing it on dodgy stats; parroting the propaganda and brainwashing that is peddled by the media and aviation, and that a fairer stat is the deaths by JOURNEY NUMBER.  I don't think anyone here feels safer knowing that they are more likely to die in a plane by journey number and instead think "oh well, by miles travelled I am...so...I will just think of happy thoughts.  It's gonna be a goooooood day.".  That would be crazy.  The reason the aviation use that stat is because it looks good (honestly, that's obvious).  The reason the insurers use the death by journey number is because it is a more faithful statistic.  Yes I said more faithful, not perfect.

Planes usually crash and burn on take off or landing.. so what happens in-between is largely irrelevant.

I did not mean to claim that the stats show conclusively that planes are more dangerous than car, but that at best, planes are no more safe.  If I said that or gave that impression then I retract it.  They certainly are NOT the safest form of transport.  That is a fact.  An undeniable fact.  I am well aware that even the death by journey stats are not perfect and have problems in interpretation but they are far fairer than death by hours travelled or distance travelled. 

I would also like to add that given the choice of death, most of us would like the sharp fast death of car. If something goes wrong in a plane, generally you will be alive for a long time, in utter panic the likes of which you cannot conceive.  You are placing your life in the hands of a human operator, and hence most accidents in plane are human error related.  I am afraid that human error does exist on plane.. it doesn't just stop because the Aviation's dodgy stats say so.

I did not manipulate any statistics, as I did not compile the stats, I merely stated them.  The fact is, kud is just trolling and I would wager in direct conversation with his buddy, the lunatic Jari.   


If either had any real care for debate they would have attempted it, instead they made everyone aware that they have no argument other than "MANIPULATION!!!!!" and at the same time made their trolling look ridiculously blatant.  It is no surprise to find that the same people are the source of every argument on this forum and always will be.  You would have thought that their enormous practice at it would have made them more competent trolls, but as I said, they do it so much they have become complacent.  This thread has become the biggest joke ever, and it is all on Kud and jari!

Cheers boys

1 last thing.  You 2 need to give up trying to bait me and troll me.  We are never going back to the old days so move on.    That way you will at least maintain some sort of dignity instead of being the laughing stock of the forum.  I will not be back to this thread.

really give up trying to bait you?? you do know you just took their so called bait right proving them to be right in every way shape and form km i'm on you side

[Kudistos Megistos]

really give up trying to bait you?? you do know you just took their so called bait right proving them to be right in every way shape and form km i'm on you side

Why thank you!

But I must point out that there was no baiting. I merely thought he was wrong and called him out.

People have decided that I was baiting, with no evidence, and often relying on claims about my past with Seifer that are completely untrue, and have interpreted this whole affair according to the grand narrative of kudi-chan being a mean old poopy-head.

[gotenksssj22002]

really give up trying to bait you?? you do know you just took their so called bait right proving them to be right in every way shape and form km i'm on you side

Why thank you!

But I must point out that there was no baiting. I merely thought he was wrong and called him out.

People have decided that I was baiting, with no evidence, and often relying on claims about my past with Seifer that are completely untrue, and have interpreted this whole affair according to the grand narrative of kudi-chan being a mean old poopy-head.

yes i know you wasn't baiting just i was using his own words

[Mako]

Terrible things can happen when one is off one's meds. I once even got my husband's friend mixed up with my fiancé. That caused a lot of embarrassment during the wedding!

I think you are trying your best at humor? Came off a bit mean...I was trying to lighten up the situation no need to attack me

Now before you say the much anticipated "I didn't do anything" pay attention to the bold. You like to sneak stuff like that in...I don't like it, I am sad that you decided to make fun of me when I was trying to help. I was defending you on IRC, and I often enjoyed your jokes and posts. 

[Kudistos Megistos]

Terrible things can happen when one is off one's meds. I once even got my husband's friend mixed up with my fiancé. That caused a lot of embarrassment during the wedding!

I think you are trying your best at humor? Came off a bit mean...I was trying to lighten up the situation no need to attack me

Now before you say the much anticipated "I didn't do anything" pay attention to the bold. You like to sneak stuff like that in...I don't like it, I am sad that you decided to make fun of me when I was trying to help. I was defending you on IRC, and I often enjoyed your jokes and posts. 

I don't see how saying that I was "off my meds" was "trying to lighten up the situation". In my opinion, that was a bit mean. Implying that someone is mentally ill does not help the situation.

But we all know that, on these forums, certain people can be insulted with impunity but others can't be criticised at all.

[obesebear]

But we all know that, on these forums, certain people can be insulted with impunity but others can't be criticised at all.

[Kudistos Megistos]

But we all know that, on these forums, certain people can be insulted with impunity but others can't be criticised at all.

So, you're not even trying to deny it, but instead are gloating about it!

So many people's true colours are being revealed!

[obesebear]

My true colors indeed.  I'm best friends with DLPB.  Best friends since way, way back.  We're going to take over these forums he and I, just biding our time for now.   In all honesty, I'm best friends with whoever I side with in any debate... it's just the sad truth of things.  How could I possibly be neutral on a Final Fantasy forum... emotions just run too high.

I probably shouldn't have posted that picture, but what's done is done.  However, I think you do realize your bias and just want an argument.

[Mako]

I don't see how saying that I was "off my meds" was "trying to lighten up the situation". In my opinion, that was a bit mean. Implying that someone is mentally ill does not help the situation.

You missed the whole earlier part of the joke (deliberately?) see you have a very interesting post style. Many people found my joke funny and it could have ended the situation had you not kept pressing the issue.

You are extremely funny when you want to be, this is very uncharacteristic of you to keep attacking everyone who has posted in your thread. Has something happed? are you feeling ok? don't let DLBP get to you he can be a bit... ummm passionate but there is no reason to insult everyone.

[Kudistos Megistos]

My true colors indeed.  I'm best friends with DLPB.  Best friends since way, way back.  We're going to take over these forums he and I, just biding our time for now.   In all honesty, I'm best friends with whoever I side with in any debate... it's just the sad truth of things.  How could I possibly be neutral on a Final Fantasy forum... emotions just run too high.

And the worst thing about that is that your sarcasm is so close to the truth. There's clear favouritism; you've even admitted to it.

What else is clear is that I am being used as a proxy by which to attack Jari. All of Seifer's arguments lump me and Jari together*, and your claims that I have some grudge against Seifer show that you have confused my history with Seifer with Jari's history with Seifer, and have made assumptions about my motivations based on that confusion.

However, I think you do realize your bias and just want an argument.

You keep saying that. You have no evidence, but you keep saying it. Is it so hard to believe that I thought Seifer's argument was just bad?

*What's especially funny about Seifer's conspiracy theory that I am secretly working with Jari just to be mean with him is that I could just as easily make the same claim about Seifer, and I'd have more evidence! I could say that Seifer is working with Hermoor to be mean to me. Those two have been known to work together in the past in order to cause trouble, and Seifer is generally known to play the PM game to get people on his side. I have never done that. He had no evidence that I was doing that; he just asserted it. Just as you have asserted that I am trolling, without having any evidence.

I'd really like to see some evidence for these claims that all I'm doing is trolling, because at the moment, there is none. There are just assertions. Assertions that are made with no evidence and assertions that are based upon outright falsehoods.

What's also interesting is that no-one has made much of an argument for anything I've said being false. People just seem content to say that I'm trolling and ignore the truth completely. That's a classic Bulverism. Don't bother to say what's wrong with someone's argument (that's too hard!), just assume that the person is wrong and come up with reasons as to why the person came to be so silly.

You missed the whole earlier part of the joke (deliberately?) see you have a very interesting post style. Many people found my joke funny and it could have ended the situation had you not kept pressing the issue.

Then you should take more care to make your jokes clearer and to make sure that they're appropriate for the situation. If no harm was intended, then I am of course willing to let it go.

[yarLson]

the funny thing is, this is called the Trolling Thread, so I hope no one is trying to deny whats going on here. Secondly a debate requires some contents of logical consistency so lets not try and say that's what this is. I am not taking any sides here honestly there are some relevant points on both sides, as well as some logically fallacious statements. I would say however that the original post was a bit of a drastic assumption. Manipulation requires some aspect of truth to be altered to an untruthful state, while still under the guise of being truth. I don't think he is guilty of any such thing and so the premiss of your whole argument is irrelevant and this thread is pointless. This does not mean I am taking his side, it simply is what it is, call it what you want. I have a tendency to place the blame on the first to antagonize, I'll freely admit that. I feel a little stupid for even replying at this point but the only reason I am posting this is to hopefully encourage somebody to read this.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/

being logically fallacious does not make you stupid, it simply makes you human, so lets please drop the personal attacking from either side. Similarly, to point out an argument as wrong is one thing, but to be able teach another why they are wrong is quite another. The later is the soul of an argument. If you have no intent of teaching someone what you believe to be true, and if you are not willing to leave open the possibility that you are wrong, then you have no legitimate basis to call a simple quarrel an argument.

[Mako]

Then you should take more care to make your jokes clearer

I thought it was pretty clear... I even separated it (didn't indent though) and the joke was immediately well received. To which I might add that normally my jokes fall flat.

I will make this clear; I am defending my joke it is very rare that I get a laugh and many at that! I will fight to the death on this issue. Now instead of us lancing each other verbally we can drop it and have hugs! and be forum pals. Do not attack my joke sir I need this one!

[sl1982]

You are a dyin' breed round these parts, and thank god for that.  If you want to act like a moron and fit in with your f*cked-up kind, I suggest you boogie on over to the Lifestream Forum.  You will find a lovely home there, for sure.  They will also agree with every crazy argument going, so you won't even need to argue.  IQ entrance fee <60.

is an outright attack?

Yes it is, and it will not be tolerated from you DLPB anymore then anyone else. If you kids cannot play nice in the playground then you do not get to play.

I leave this as my final warning: Any more personal attacks and said person will be moderated and I will filter their posts before they are posted. This goes for everyone

[Kudistos Megistos]

the funny thing is, this is called the Trolling Thread, so I hope no one is trying to deny whats going on here.

It certainly is what's going on! The only question is who's trolling whom.

I would say however that the original post was a bit of a drastic assumption. Manipulation requires some aspect of truth to be altered to an untruthful state, while still under the guise of being truth. I don't think he is guilty of any such thing and so the premiss of your whole argument is irrelevant and this thread is pointless.

O RLY?

My contention is that he cherry picked one set of statistics in order to advance a certain position. Moreover, he cherry picked what I argued was the least appropriate set of statistics for the comparison he was making. Surely cherry picking counts as manipulation? It's presenting the statistics in such a way that might make the weaker argument appear to be the stronger.

Then you should take more care to make your jokes clearer

I thought it was pretty clear... I even separated it (didn't indent though) and the joke was immediately well received. To which I might add that normally my jokes fall flat.

I will make this clear; I am defending my joke it is very rare that I get a laugh and many at that! I will fight to the death on this issue. Now instead of us lancing each other verbally we can drop it and have hugs! and be forum pals. Do not attack my joke sir I need this one!

Very well. I am perfectly willing to put down my lance when there is a satisfactory resolution to the situation and I am convinced that malice was not the cause of the debacle.

[xLostWingx]

I was interested in determining whether it is safer to travel by plane or car.  The answer should present itself if we examine data from multiple sources.  I have two sources, 1 for cars, and 1 for planes.  They are not infallible, but they appear to be reliable enough for our purposes.  Other sources are encouraged.

Plane Safety:  http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/01/11/336920/global-airline-accident-review-of-2009.html

Car Safety:  http://www.who.int/features/2004/road_safety/en/

In terms of Injuries and Deaths - Cars 1.2 Million deaths per year; 50 Million injuries per year.

                                                     Planes 806 Deaths per year (avg.); 31 Fatal Accidents per year.

Note that up to 30% of fatal car accidents involve a drunk driver (in the USA).  Also, many car accidents are collisions between vehicles and human beings or cyclists.  Plane crashes usually involve catastrophic mechanical failure, or a drastic pilot error - some automobile fatalities are a result of mechanical failure (but consider how often planes are maintanenced verus how many cars are poorly maintained).

And this is for planes:

Code: [Select]

•1990-94: 1.32 serious accidents per million departures.
•1995-99: 1.06.
•2000-04: 0.58.
•2005-09: 0.55.By serious, I believe they mean involving a fatality.

It is clear to me that cars are much more dangerous than planes, but nearly all automobile fatalities are preventable while the trip is taking place, but it has been mentioned that plane accidents usually occur on takeoff or landing.

If I am driving a car, or in an area where cars are being driven, the introduction of a loud noise, an interesting scene, a hole in the road, or excessive speeds (and 1000 other factors) can create an accident in an instant.  The plane travels through air and is not subject to most of these factors.  However, outside forces can act on planes (bird strikes) and mechanical failure can happen in automobiles (Toyota Brake Failures).

[DLPB_]

That does not answer the question properly at all, because you have not used an average based on how many total journey's there are (and by that stat, cars come out 3X worse).

There are far far more car journeys than plane journeys, so obviously a sum total will show planes having less deaths.   (I also didn't realise it was this thread because of the post title, but since this is actually debating I will leave the post here).

You cannot use sum totals in this debate, as it is the most unfair stat going.

[xLostWingx]

Well here is some data http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

By using the information here, I've calculated that there is 1 death per 292,865,490,000 vehicle miles traveled (in the USA) or a .000000000293% chance of dying for every mile you drive.  By injuries, it would be 52 times that number chance of sustaining an injury by driving. Insignificant indeed.  But then I found this.

Code: [Select]

Fatality rate per billion passenger miles traveled
Car (most dangerous)
 7.2
Airplane
 2.3
Bus
 2.0
Train (safest)
 0.5
http://airfare.michaelbluejay.com/modes.html#sources

From here http://airfare.michaelbluejay.com/modes.html With a list of sources.

I didn't check the math on each source, but its something to look at.  I would have to say that fatalities per passenger mile is  a good method of determining safety.  Journey numbers is too ambiguous.  Planes cover those miles faster, so in terms of "time spent in vehicle" planes are even more dangerous than simply by passenger mile.  Deaths per passenger hour of travel might be a better method.

[Cupcake]

Or he's trying to keep order in the forum that no longer needs, or wants you.  Sorry you're not terribly important to us, must have you questioning your self worth, considering you keep coming back.

I find this amusing, given the fact that you yourself said that you'd leave the forums a few weeks ago and said that you aren't important.

Then changed your mind five minutes later.

Mako talked me into staying, don't think it's of free will.  Also, the hatred/dislike of you stems from you trolling, and just being an asshole more often lately.  I don't know what caused it, but for the last week or so, you just seem to be on the warpath.

[Kudistos Megistos]

Or he's trying to keep order in the forum that no longer needs, or wants you.  Sorry you're not terribly important to us, must have you questioning your self worth, considering you keep coming back.

I find this amusing, given the fact that you yourself said that you'd leave the forums a few weeks ago and said that you aren't important.

Then changed your mind five minutes later.

Mako talked me into staying, don't think it's of free will.

Oh, it's not free will?

Did she tie you up and prevent you from deleting your account?

Also, the hatred/dislike of you stems from you trolling, and just being an ahole more often lately.  I don't know what caused it, but for the last week or so, you just seem to be on the warpath.

Maybe that's just your perception. Anyway, what was it that sl said about no more personal attacks? Calling me an arsehole is certainly a personal attack. I'd be more careful, if I were you.

I leave this as my final warning: Any more personal attacks and said person will be moderated and I will filter their posts before they are posted. This goes for everyone

[BloodShot]

Did i miss something? 

This trolling thread seems true TL:DR material.

[Cupcake]

Or he's trying to keep order in the forum that no longer needs, or wants you.  Sorry you're not terribly important to us, must have you questioning your self worth, considering you keep coming back.

I find this amusing, given the fact that you yourself said that you'd leave the forums a few weeks ago and said that you aren't important.

Then changed your mind five minutes later.

Mako talked me into staying, don't think it's of free will.

Oh, it's not free will?

Did she tie you up and prevent you from deleting your account?

Also, the hatred/dislike of you stems from you trolling, and just being an ahole more often lately.  I don't know what caused it, but for the last week or so, you just seem to be on the warpath.

Maybe that's just your perception. Anyway, what was it that sl said about no more personal attacks? Calling me an arsehole is certainly a personal attack. I'd be more careful, if I were you.

I leave this as my final warning: Any more personal attacks and said person will be moderated and I will filter their posts before they are posted. This goes for everyone

1) Or, you know, I try to be a nice person every now and then, something I'm sure you know nothing about

2) I've gotten to the point where I don't give a shit, if I got moderated/banned, so be it, I really don't care, but I'm sick and tired of just holding my tongue so I don't get moderated/banned.  I sit mostly on IRC anyway.

[Kudistos Megistos]

1) Or, you know, I try to be a nice person every now and then, something I'm sure you know nothing about

Is that so?

Well, a lot of people have commented on my helpfulness. In fact, I'm one of the most helpful people to people who have a problem with running or modding the game, as long as the person is polite and I know how to deal with it.

Of course, this happens in the on-topic forums, something I'm sure you know nothing about.

2) I've gotten to the point where I don't give a sh*t, if I got moderated/banned, so be it, I really don't care, but I'm sick and tired of just holding my tongue so I don't get moderated/banned.  I sit mostly on IRC anyway.

I see. Then let rip. I'm sure you have beefs with plenty of people. Why not make a thread about it?

[Cupcake]

1) Or, you know, I try to be a nice person every now and then, something I'm sure you know nothing about

Is that so?

Well, a lot of people have commented on my helpfulness. In fact, I'm one of the most helpful people to people who have a problem with running or modding the game, as long as the person is polite and I know how to deal with it.

Of course, this happens in the on-topic forums, something I'm sure you know nothing about.

2) I've gotten to the point where I don't give a sh*t, if I got moderated/banned, so be it, I really don't care, but I'm sick and tired of just holding my tongue so I don't get moderated/banned.  I sit mostly on IRC anyway.

I see. Then let rip. I'm sure you have beefs with plenty of people. Why not make a thread about it?

Lurking in on-topic ≠ not present in on-topic.  I just don't give a shit about people having issues running the game, mine are solved, save for one or two, which are uniquely mine, for various reasons, and not much I can do about them, so fuck it.  So what if I don't feel like typing up a guide for one person, so they understand how to install Aali's driver.  So what if you do?  Being able to go "HERP DERP I KNOWZ 'DIS HEREZ TEH INFOS" isn't anything to gloat about.


Actually... not really, only people I have an issue with right now, are you, and Jari, everybody else I'm actually on good terms with.

[Kudistos Megistos]

I just don't give a sh*t about people having issues running the game, mine are solved, save for one or two, which are uniquely mine, for various reasons, and not much I can do about them, so f*ck it.  So what if I don't feel like typing up a guide for one person, so they understand how to install Aali's driver.  So what if you do?  Being able to go "HERP DERP I KNOWZ 'DIS HEREZ TEH INFOS" isn't anything to gloat about.

So you see no reason to help anyone at all, so long as all of your issues are solved?

Yeah, you're coming across as a really nice guy. I'm sure the forums will be much worse off when you leave or get banned.

Actually... not really, only people I have an issue with right now, are you, and Jari, everybody else I'm actually on good terms with.

If sl1982 keeps his promise, I think you might have issues with some other people as well.