Author Topic: Highway MiniGame speed? (Read 9344 times)

dziugo · « **on:** 2005-09-04 23:11:57 »

Ok... first of all, I've managed to add a frame-limiter to the MotorBike MiniGame (and it works, woot). The problem is, I don't know how many frames it should dispay per second. If anyone here owns a PSX (which i think would be the best source) version of FF7 and could check it...

What i need is the time (in second) between the first and the last visible frame in the Highway MiniGame, that can be accessed through the GoldSaucer WonderSquare. Thanks in advance

dziugo

sfx1999 · « **Reply #1 on:** 2005-09-04 23:31:12 »

The framerate should be either 15, 20, or 30 FPS. Try those.

dziugo · « **Reply #2 on:** 2005-09-04 23:44:59 »

Thanks for the reply.

I've already checked some frame-rates. It's playable at 60FPS (which is the frame rate of Menu

). At 30FPS (frame rate of Submarine MiniGame) it's a little bit too slow. At 15FPS, I've managed to earn 20200 points... That's why I need the time for PSX version, since there are always 4034 frames to be processed & displayed.

dziugo

EmperorSteele · « **Reply #3 on:** 2005-09-05 05:04:15 »

oooh, any chance of letting other people know how to add a frame limiter? I grow tired of alt-tabing out and effing w/ my monitor settings.

dziugo · « **Reply #4 on:** 2005-09-05 07:52:15 »

I was thinking of releasing some kind of patch like the chocobo-one, but now I want to make my code version-independant (which will never happen, from what I already know about structure of different versions of ff7.exe). I'll look into High-res patch to make my a non-colidable-one... Also the Snowboard MiniGame needs a frame-limiter, but that wouldn't be a problem... What I really need, are the framerates. Let's hope that there IS someone who can help me...

dziugo

Kinseek · « **Reply #5 on:** 2005-09-05 08:40:42 »

Well, do you really need the excact timing of the PSX-version? Considering that version probably runs at lower frames then truly wanted (since the hardware is less capable then most PCs), wouldn`t it make more sense to just try out any FPS that makes it seem smooth enough?

I do have FF7 for the PSX as well, and probably a save where I can just go to Gold Saucer and try it there (or would the Gold Saucer version perhaps differ in the amount of frames from the first time?)

Could you add the same frame-limiting to the Submarine game and Snowboarding?

dziugo · « **Reply #6 on:** 2005-09-05 09:19:56 »

Quote from: Kinseek

Well, do you really need the excact timing of the PSX-version? Considering that version probably runs at lower frames then truly wanted (since the hardware is less capable then most PCs), wouldn`t it make more sense to just try out any FPS that makes it seem smooth enough?

I just don't know which frame-rate to choose

You just have to divide 4034 (which is the number of frames) by the time in seconds, and you'll get the correct frame-rate (correct for PC version).

Quote from: Kinseek

I do have FF7 for the PSX as well, and probably a save where I can just go to Gold Saucer and try it there (or would the Gold Saucer version perhaps differ in the amount of frames from the first time?)

If you could check it, I'd really appreciate that.

Quote from: Kinseek

Could you add the same frame-limiting to the Submarine game and Snowboarding?

Snowboarding? Working on it right now. Submarine minigame has it already.

And what would you people like more:
1) A new gypt realese which will do all necessary stuff, but only by editing memory (you'll have to launch it every time to play those MiniGames with frame-limiter) which is a lil' bit safer than raw-editing the file.
2) A patch which will modify your ff7.exe file to add a frame-limit.
3) Another idea? Post it.

dziugo

Kinseek · « **Reply #7 on:** 2005-09-05 09:40:19 »

Quote from: dziugo

.If you could check it, I'd really appreciate that.

Sure. I got the FF7 PAL release, running on PS2 (and for this experiment without any of the PS2 enhancements running

)

So basically what am I supposed to do? Go to gold saucer and jump onto the bike mini-game? Select one of the games and count the seconds from where? The moment something relating to the mini-game pops up and until I finish? The "problem" is that I could start and end the timing from a different moment then you would want

.

Quote from: dziugo

2) A patch which will modify your ff7.exe file to add a frame-limit.

Definately this. In the long run its the most practical and nice solution. The problem is just that this *could* screw up the installation of other patches, especially those that checks the crc checksum (if your patch would change that). But as long as there is a method that allows me to install this patch along with the other nice patches now out for FF7 I`m a happy camper.

Oh, I posted a small comment to your thread here.

dziugo · « **Reply #8 on:** 2005-09-05 10:01:59 »

Quote from: Kinseek

Quote from: dziugo
.If you could check it, I'd really appreciate that.

Sure. I got the FF7 PAL release, running on PS2 (and for this experiment without any of the PS2 enhancements running )

So basically what am I supposed to do? Go to gold saucer and jump onto the bike mini-game? Select one of the games and count the seconds from where? The moment something relating to the mini-game pops up and until I finish? The "problem" is that I could start and end the timing from a different moment then you would want .

2 seconds don't make much difference

Start counting, when you can actually see the truck and the highway (basically the first frame) and stop when the screen turns black.

Quote from: Kinseek

Quote from: dziugo

2) A patch which will modify your ff7.exe file to add a frame-limit.

Definately this. In the long run its the most practical and nice solution. The problem is just that this *could* screw up the installation of other patches, especially those that checks the crc checksum (if your patch would change that). But as long as there is a method that allows me to install this patch along with the other nice patches now out for FF7 I`m a happy camper.

I'll think of some nice solution then...

Kinseek · « **Reply #9 on:** 2005-09-05 10:05:16 »

Quote from: dziugo

2 seconds don't make much difference Start counting, when you can actually see the truck and the highway (basically the first frame) and stop when the screen turns black.

Allright; I`ll get back to you with the results in a little while.

EDIT: OK, I got about 2min and 40sec. You do the math

.

dziugo · « **Reply #10 on:** 2005-09-05 19:56:35 »

Quote from: Kinseek

OK, I got about 2min and 40sec. You do the math .

So it's about 25.0FPS. Big thanks for that.

I've also found a bug in the Snowboard MiniGame (serious one... could cause the crashing, but it's easy to fix). Has it already been fixed? Shall I correct this too?

dziugo

Kinseek · « **Reply #11 on:** 2005-09-05 20:32:23 »

Quote from: dziugo

I've also found a bug in the Snowboard MiniGame (serious one... could cause the crashing, but it's easy to fix). Has it already been fixed? Shall I correct this too?

I`m not quite sure if this isn`t corrected by the Chocobo-patch or not, but I suppose if it isn`t it would be nice of you to correct it,

-gone away- · « **Reply #12 on:** 2005-09-06 03:18:37 »

Quote from: dziugo

So it's about 25.0FPS. Big thanks for that.

that sounds odd. i thought it should be 50fps because thats the tv refresh rate and doesn't the game have vsync enabled by default, 25fps & 30fps are usually the dvd refresh rate.

anyway sounds cool...

oooh.. forgot to add. What are you doing slowing down the submarine game? doesn't it allready go the right speed. i know it does on mine.

The SaiNt · « **Reply #13 on:** 2005-09-06 03:48:12 »

You can always give me the offsets and I'll apply them to my patch directly, no collisions that way

dziugo · « **Reply #14 on:** 2005-09-06 07:58:37 »

Quote from: smithie

Quote from: dziugo
So it's about 25.0FPS. Big thanks for that.

that sounds odd. i thought it should be 50fps because thats the tv refresh rate and doesn't the game have vsync enabled by default, 25fps & 30fps are usually the dvd refresh rate.

Yeah... I've applied that frame-rate, and HighwayMiniGame is... hmm... too slow IMHO

, maybe there is a difference in the level design, so the PSX version is simply longer?

I think I'll have to ask Kinseek for help once again...

Quote from: smithie

oooh.. forgot to add. What are you doing slowing down the submarine game? doesn't it allready go the right speed. i know it does on mine.

Nothing. It already has a frame limit

Quote from: The SaiNt

You can always give me the offsets and I'll apply them to my patch directly, no collisions that way

I think it's a good idea. But I'll make some installer first, so you (all of you

) could check, if it is playable now...

dziugo

Kinseek · « **Reply #15 on:** 2005-09-06 10:04:19 »

Quote from: smithie

that sounds odd. i thought it should be 50fps because thats the tv refresh rate and doesn't the game have vsync enabled by default, 25fps & 30fps are usually the dvd refresh rate.

It doesn`t work that way.

It`s true that for example DVDs usually run at 25/30 FPS (or rather, 24 which is the NTSC TV standard, 25 is PAL), the refresh rate, or hz, is always 50 for PAL and 60 for NTSC.

FPS is the amount of frames that is being output every second, while refresh rate is the amunt of times per second that the monitor refreshes all the pixels on the screen. Meaning that most times, a frame is being refreshed more then once.

Quote from: dziugo

maybe there is a difference in the level design, so the PSX version is simply longer? I think I'll have to ask Kinseek for help once again...

Well, what do you want me to do?

What part of the mini-game are you comparing to? The escape from midgar part or the Gold Saucer one? They might differ. That and I don`t know if moving up and down with the bike makes the game faster or not.

dziugo · « **Reply #16 on:** 2005-09-06 10:37:24 »

Quote from: Kinseek

What part of the mini-game are you comparing to? The escape from midgar part or the Gold Saucer one? They might differ. That and I don`t know if moving up and down with the bike makes the game faster or not.

I play a MiniGame at GoldSaucer since it's always accessible (and you can play it as many times as you want). Also, moving up and down with the bike shouldn't make much difference. There are always 4034 frames (on PC version).

Quote from: Kinseek

Quote from: dziugo

maybe there is a difference in the level design, so the PSX version is simply longer? I think I'll have to ask Kinseek for help once again...

Well, what do you want me to do?

I'll make a quick patch (or maybe put modified ff7.exe somewhere, ready to download) to apply the frame-limiter and send it to you. If it's possible run both the PSX and PC version simultaneously, and don't touch anything. Your job is to check if the levels are similar. I know that it IS a big favour, but if you're still willing to help, PM me...

dziugo

Aaron · « **Reply #17 on:** 2005-09-06 11:58:58 »

Quote from: dziugo

Yeah... I've applied that frame-rate, and HighwayMiniGame is... hmm... too slow IMHO

He's using the PAL version...
If there are always the same number of frames (I wouldn't be surprised at all if the PSX and PC versions have the same number of frames), the NTSC version might actually run that game at 30 FPS. (I don't have a PlayStation so I can't check.

)

X-Hunter · « **Reply #18 on:** 2005-09-06 14:25:49 »

Quote from: dziugo

Quote from: Kinseek
OK, I got about 2min and 40sec. You do the math .
So it's about 25.0FPS. Big thanks for that.

I've also found a bug in the Snowboard MiniGame (serious one... could cause the crashing, but it's easy to fix). Has it already been fixed? Shall I correct this too?

dziugo

Hi!
This bug in the snowboard game is really annoying and it wasn't fixed yet.
Here in my pc the game ( with all fix patches )keeps crashing in this minigame, I only managed to pass in software rendering mode.
If you can fix this thing up will be really aprecciated!!

-gone away- · « **Reply #19 on:** 2005-09-07 03:54:14 »

Quote from: Kinseek

It doesn`t work that way.

hehe.. actually it does work that way if you have vsync enabled. Thats the whole point of it, to eliminate image tearing by sycronising the fps with refresh rate... however i did say this next bit wrong.

Quote from: smithie

25fps & 30fps are usually the dvd refresh rate.

i meant to say 25fps & 30fps are usually the dvd frame rate / my bad. games are not limited when it comes to fps.

dziugo: i thought the bike game in the gold saucer varied each time you played it. but i could be wrong.

Kinseek · « **Reply #20 on:** 2005-09-07 06:40:24 »

Quote from: smithie

Quote from: Kinseek
It doesn`t work that way.

hehe.. actually it does work that way if you have vsync enabled. Thats the whole point of it, to eliminate image tearing by sycronising the fps with refresh rate...

Innacurate statement. A game with vsybc enabled won`t run at 60fps (at a 60hz monitor) all the time. It simply won`t run at higher then 60fps (that could create tearing in the screen since the monitor isn`t allowed to render each frame fully)

dziugo · « **Reply #21 on:** 2005-09-07 08:49:00 »

Quote from: smithie

i thought the bike game in the gold saucer varied each time you played it. but i could be wrong.

I implemented some simple frame-counter and it was always a fixed amount of frames (4034?). Even if the highway is different each time you play it, it always takes the same time to complete it.

-gone away- · « **Reply #22 on:** 2005-09-08 04:07:47 »

Quote from: Kinseek

Innacurate statement. A game with vsybc enabled won`t run at 60fps (at a 60hz monitor) all the time. It simply won`t run at higher then 60fps (that could create tearing in the screen since the monitor isn`t allowed to render each frame fully)

hmm .thats odd my response from the other day disapeared.. so here it is again.

good point, ill give you that one, ... :isee: