[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

[White Wind]

The best word I can think of is "Absorb".

[DLPB_]

I'd avoid that since we already have a materia that uses it.

One of the common official localizations is Siphon / Syphon, which works fine.   Other words that would work are:

Bleed
Drain (in use already by enemy)
Leech
Extract
Draw
Consume


Any of those will work (I prefer Leech, Drain, Consume, or Siphon).  I can note Aspirate as the likely origin in the documentation.

[Shasta McNasty]

You might want to avoid "Drain" and "Draw" because those are used in other Final Fantasy titles for different spells and abilities and could therefore be confusing/misleading.  Now that the meaning of "asupiru" has been established I really think "Aspire" or "Aspirate" would be fine.  Makes perfect sense when you look at the definition.

[DLPB_]

We can't be 100% that it is that but, I think, even if it is, it's a tad verbose and strange.  It may be wiser to just use something that keeps meaning without it looking totally out of place.

I'll give it some thought.  It's worth noting that Gi Nattak boss does both Drain (HP draining) and Aspirate (MP draining).

[White Wind]

I've just seen that an enemy attack is called Absorb too ( 吸収 ). Doesn't that conflict with HP Absorb and MP Absorb materias ? Here are the kana for those きゅうしゅう

If you're not going to put Aspire, then I think that the word that convey the most the sense of "to attract/ being attracted" is Draw, and Extract and Siphon/ Syphon could also do.

[DLPB_]

It should be fine...  I'll allow it since it's an enemy move.  I wouldn't if it was used by player.

edit.

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002216.htm

It could also be from "Aspiration". But I think the odds are now firmly in the direction that this is solved.  The new move will be "Aspiration".  We'll see how it goes.  Siphon is a backup plan.

[DLPB_]

So finally, the one no-one has a clue about is

キュビルデュヌス > Cuvilduns

the "uns" ending seems pretty solid, but who knows.

ビルデ can be from "building".

But I have no idea why it starts "cu / cubi / cuvi"

[White Wind]

Then what.. Cubuilduns ?  ^_^

[DLPB_]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vild

I think that's why I ended up keeping "vild", but it's a long shot.

[Shasta McNasty]

Alright, I think I found another one here.  On the spreadsheet, Reizu (レイズ) is translated as "Rise," and Areizu (アレイズ) is translated as "Arise."  However, I believe this is incorrect.  And in fact, I also got it incorrect when I mentioned it in a recent post, though I suspected something was up:

though there's also that weird "Araise" アレイズ spell that doesn't quite match what it should be, "Arise" アライズ, so maybe I'm wrong

I did a little digging and found these two spells should be "Raise" and "Araise," odd as that second one may look at first glance.  Here's my rationale:

Syllables to denote different levels of a certain set of spells usually go at the end, i.e. blizzard, blizzara, blizzaga.  And usually the progression of strength goes [no ending] --> -ra --> -ga, but not always (In final fantasy IV, the Care/Cure series of spells goes: Care/Cure, Carera/Curera, Careda/Cureda, Carega/Curega, if I'm not mistaken.  The Final Fantasy wiki gets the kana wrong for these however, which is confusing; I think they were going by the American translation for the GBA, 3DS and PSP versions.  But I'm fairly certain the progression goes [no ending] --> -ra --> da --> ga in the Japanese version of the game).  However, in some Final Fantasy games, those extraneous syllables go at the beginning.  In Final Fantasy I, there are a set of spells that only harm the undead.  The first level is "Dia" (ディア).  The second level is "Adia" (アディア), and the third level is "Dadia" (ダディア).  "Teleport" is also called "Datelepo" (ダテレポ) in this game for no particular reason.

Furthermore, sometimes the extraneous syllables go at the beginning AND the end.  In Final Fantasy I, the Heal series of spells goes like this: Heal (ヒール), Healra (ヒーラ), Rahealra (ラヒーラ).

This happens with the "Raise" series of spells as well.  In a lot of cases, it goes like this: Raise (レイズ), Araise (アレイズ), Reraise (リレイズ) (notice how the second level is denoted with an A- prefix in the same vein as "Adia" above.  However, Final Fantasy VI called Reraise something else-- Araiga (アレイガ), using extraneous syllables at both the beginning and ending of the word to show that it's a different level of spell in that series.

Finally, though this is my weakest point, Final Fantasy IV Easy Type uses numbers to denote spell levels like the American translation did.  In that game, Raise became Raise1 (レイズ１) and Araise became Raise2 (レイズ２).  Notice how they defaulted to "Raise" (レイズ) and not "Rise" (ライズ) as the base word for that spells series despite Areizu (アレイズ) not even being present.  I believe that was intentional, and that the base word was intended to be "raise" all along.

Thus, I believe it's supposed to be Raise and Araise.  Here are my sources:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy/Translations

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_IV/Translations

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VI/Translations


And if nothing else, Raise is a transitive verb, which makes sense since you're almost always casting the spell on someone else unless you link it to a Final Attack materia, and Rise is an intransitive verb.  This is partially why using "Rise" as the translation for レイズ drives me so frickin' crazy in this case, haha.

[DLPB_]

Yeah, that's already been discussed.  I've kept to Rise and Arise because it sounds better and changes nothing.  "Araise" sounds bad.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rCfwrvE9jSO_vojc4rq0fOIlyrjj_6MOUlFCLN0VMgg/edit#gid=0

It's already been noted that the literal is "Araise" in the document.

[Shasta McNasty]

Fair enough.  My bad.

[DLPB_]

I have sent 10 of the most promising suggestions to Luksy to see what he thinks.  As for マドゥジュ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhu-Kaitabha

which I noted in the documentation some time ago.  Madhu + ju is much more likely imho.  They use Hindu influences elsewhere with Shiva / Siva, for example.

[MEMANIAsama]

Yeah, that's already been discussed.  I've kept to Rise and Arise because it sounds better and changes nothing.  "Araise" sounds bad.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rCfwrvE9jSO_vojc4rq0fOIlyrjj_6MOUlFCLN0VMgg/edit#gid=0

It's already been noted that the literal is "Araise" in the document.

I think Arise makes sense, just because it's awkward otherwise. But isn't Raise sort of the defacto "canon" English name for that spell nowadays? I mean, it's better than "Life" and still sticks to traditional FF nomenclature. That's just my two cents, always thought it sounded weird to be changed to "Raise" when we have all our Fira, Firaga, etc.

[DLPB_]

I don't stick to "canon" where there is an improvement or correction, so it's all good   Unless you think Raise with Arise works ok.  I'd prefer to keep them v similar though (Rise-Arise).

[Shasta McNasty]

I like Raise with Arise a lot better and I think they work fine together but that's just me. I can see where you're coming from by making the change. It's just a little jarring to me, and might be to others. People are so used to seeing Raise and Arise, and that pairing is close enough to the original meaning/intention, that I think that's what people would probably prefer if you don't have a strong preference one way or the other (like choosing "Cure" instead of "Care" for that particular series of spells). IMHO.

[DLPB_]

The one thing that disagrees with this is that these are spoken spells.  We're supposed to imagine that the words are being spoken - which gives a leeway to the spell names. I can believe that someone would say "Rise" or "Arise" at a person compared to "Raise".   But if you take it the other way that these are just names, Raise works better.  But then mixing "Raise" with "Arise" also presents problems.

I don't think it's too much of a problem, either way.

If going with Raise, I'd also be tempted to use "Rouse" or "Renew" or "Resurrect" with it instead of "Arise".  But then there's a whole new debate

[ProtoX]

Why not called it X-Rise I renamed Full-Cure to X-Cure in my patch due to it having the same impact as X-Potion. Crap that wouldn't make sense at all due to the materia working in conjuntion with the All materia

[DLPB_]

Luksy replied:

> Here we are:
>
> 1. プドゥレア:
>
>
> A few sources continually state this was meant to be "Rare pudding" but I
> take it if this were the case, it would have to be プドレア at the least?  I can
> see nothing here to go on other than just Pudurare.

Rare pudding makes no sense to me, absolutely 0, with no other ideas
I'd stick with Pudurare.

>
> 2.
> シェザーシザー
>
> It has  been noted that the first part might be onomatopoeia of the sound of
> scissors. 

It can't be anything in regular Japanese because シェ isn't a valid
phoneme. The onomatopoeia for scissors is "choki" anyway.

>
> 4. キュルビヌュ
>
> One theory is that this is from three words
>
> Cu (from cube) rubi (from Rubik's) nue (from Japanese mythology)]
>
> Given that this is a cube enemy.

ヌュ again is another non-Japanese phoneme, so nue (ヌエ) is out. That
said, I can definitely see something Rubik Cube-y about the name, it's
almost an anagram ルービックキューブ.

> 6.  リルフ
>
> How likely is it that this is bad kana for Leaf?

Not so much bad kana, I'd agree that it could be a deliberate
modification of leaf.

> 7.  Under Lizard
>
> Better as "Sub Lizard" from Sub species?

More likely it's something like "burrowing lizard", under as in underground.

>
> 8. Grim Guard
>
> It has been said that this could be Grimm Guard, after
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_Grimm
>
> http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Grimguard

Maybe? Can't see any connection except the name though.

> 9.
> バグナドラナ
>
> Bugnadrana:  "Bug" (as a bug), "na" (negation), "dra" (beginning of the word
> "dragon"), "na" (negation). That gives us "Not a bug nor a dragon"

Those na could even be "like" but either's a bit of a stretch. Bug
sounds good though, especially seeing as it has 6 legs.

> 11.  アスピル
>
> I had another look at this.  It was created in FF2 which had a limit of 4
> chars. Aspiration / Aspire / and Aspirate are all possible?  This is a move
> that  replenishes something from the enemy, usually MP.
>

Japanese ff wiki also suggests aspirate, it's very likely it's that or similar.

============================

I'll make final decisions later.

[White Wind]

That's cool. And thank you luksy.


I've taken another look at the google sheet and I'd like to point out several things that appear to me as inconsistencies.


- "Inside Plate"
"Underneath Plate 4" literally is "District 4, Underneath Plate" and you specify that "The dialogue makes it clear that plates are also numbered" (so "Plate 4" fits). Now our "Inside Plate" literally is "District 4, Inside Plate", so shouldn't we have "Inside Plate 4" here instead ?

- inside something
On one side we have "Inside the Great Crater", "Inside the Planet", and on the other side we have "Inside Airship" , "Inside Church", "Inside Cliff", "Inside Nibl Reactor", "Inside Plate" (discussed above). Don't the 5 latter need a "the" ? Or the 2 former need the removal of the "the" for the sake of consistency ?

- inconsistencies with prefixes and hyphens
Normally the prefix is part of the word itself (gigabyte, asocial, etc). So if we follow that rule, we end up with "Omniall", "Tetramagic", "Tridisaster" and "Aquabreath" as you did with "Monodrive", "Monolaser", "Microlaser", "Quadralaser", "Paralaser", "Paraneedle", "Paratail", "Heligunner", "Hectoeyes", "Megaton Punch", "Megathrust", "Megaflare", "Gigadunk", "Gigaflare", "Teraflare" and "Omnislash". Now if you think that "Omniall", "Tetramagic", "Tridisaster" and "Aquabreath" look too weird and you choose to keep two separate words, I say that hyphens have their place here, since the first words are prefixes. That's what you did with "Mega-Tsunami", "De-Barrier", "Pre-emptive" and "Re-gen".
What I'm trying to point out is the lack of consistency among words with a prefix, or the lack of a rule. Either go one-word for all, or hyphens for all or two-word for all.
I'd suggest hyphens for all or two-word for all, because of these three which wouldn't work as one word : "Proto Machine Gun", "Tetra Elemental" and "Neo Bahamut".
..On second thought, both "Omni All / Omni-All", both "Neo Bahamut / Neo-Bahamut", and both "Tetra Elemental / Tetra-Elemental" could work, independently from what other names end up to be, because these three are more of proper nouns than the others (but I'd still favour hyphens for those three). Same thing for "Mega Death", the name for the chocobo, and "Hectoeyes".
But having "Megaflare", "Mega-Tsunami" and "Tri Disaster" doesn't make sense I believe.

Now something else that is not a prefix but which may call for a hyphen is the word "double". For example "Double Laser" --> "Double-Laser"? I don't know how English work with the word "double". The other ones are "Double Fire", "Double Machine Gun", "Double Rocket Punch", "Double Item", "Double Magic", "Double Summon", and in the same fashion we also have "Dual Horn", "Dual Attack", "Dual Spike" and "Dual Wing Fire".

- other hyphens
I can't see a reason for "Anemo Smog" not to have a hyphen when "Poisso-shower" has one, both names being structurally very similar (word for a sea-living animal shortened + smog/shower). And both first words being shortenings, that calls for a hyphen imo. I would also capitalise "shower" as you did everywhere else: "Anemo-Smog", "Poisso-Shower".

"Magic Barrier" as the spell has no hyphen and "Magic-Barrier" as the property has one, and there shouldn't be.
There's also "Gradual-Petrif." that has one, and here too I really don't see why there should be a hyphen, these are just nouns with their adjectives.

Now these three following suggestions are subjective:
"Touch Me" --> "Touch-Me"? looks more like a name
"Tail Whip" --> "Tail-Whip"? as one entity
"Tail Laser" --> "Tail-Laser"? as one entity

- battle commands
There are inconsistencies there too. The one-word "Deathblow" gets a hyphen --> "D-Blow". The two-word "Enemy Skill" and "Magic Barrier" get one too --> "E-Skill", "M-Barrier". And the two-word "Double Item", "Double Magic" and "Double Summon" get nothing --> "D Item", "D Mag", "D Sum" (which btw look very weird, written like that). I suggest this:

"Deathblow" ------> "D.Blow" (a full stop for an abbreviation)
"Double Item" ----> "D-Item" (a hyphen where there are two words)....
"Double Summon" --> "D-Sum." (not enough space for "Summon"?)
"Double Magic" -> "D-Magic" (there is enough space for "Magic" not to be shortened, no?)
"Enemy Skill" ----> "E-Skill"
"Magic Barrier" --> "M-Barrier"
and also I would turn "Manip" into "Manip.", for consistency among abbreviations.

I think it all looks much nicer like that and makes more sense.

There's also one battle message which lacks a full stop: "Down 10 levels", the other message "Down 5 levels." has it.

[DLPB_]

- "Inside Plate"
"Underneath Plate 4" literally is "District 4, Underneath Plate" and you specify that "The dialogue makes it clear that plates are also numbered" (so "Plate 4" fits). Now our "Inside Plate" literally is "District 4, Inside Plate", so shouldn't we have "Inside Plate 4" here instead ?

They are different areas. One is underneath it, and one is inside it.  But I'll check this again later.

- inside something
On one side we have "Inside the Great Crater", "Inside the Planet", and on the other side we have "Inside Airship" , "Inside Church", "Inside Cliff", "Inside Nibl Reactor", "Inside Plate" (discussed above). Don't the 5 latter need a "the" ? Or the 2 former need the removal of the "the" for the sake of consistency ?

I chose to do it that way, it doesn't need to keep to ultra consistency and "Inside Planet" would sound crap.  But so would using "the" everywhere, not to mention space issues.

- inconsistencies with prefixes and hyphens
Normally the prefix is part of the word itself (gigabyte, asocial, etc). So if we follow that rule, we end up with "Omniall", "Tetramagic", "Tridisaster" and "Aquabreath" as you did with "Monodrive", "Monolaser", "Microlaser", "Quadralaser", "Paralaser", "Paraneedle", "Paratail", "Heligunner", "Hectoeyes", "Megaton Punch", "Megathrust", "Megaflare", "Gigadunk", "Gigaflare", "Teraflare" and "Omnislash". Now if you think that "Omniall", "Tetramagic", "Tridisaster" and "Aquabreath" look too weird and you choose to keep two separate words, I say that hyphens have their place here, since the first words are prefixes. That's what you did with "Mega-Tsunami", "De-Barrier", "Pre-emptive" and "Re-gen".
What I'm trying to point out is the lack of consistency among words with a prefix, or the lack of a rule. Either go one-word for all, or hyphens for all or two-word for all.

Not inconsistencies.  Either choices or best practice.  There isn't one absolute rule for hyphens.  You certainly wouldn't ever use "Omniall" in ff7.  Some words have them some don't.  I had to choose which I preferred. There's no way you are ever going to make all those words work with each other.  I did correct Pre-emptive to always be used with a hyphen more recently though.

"Magic Barrier" as the spell has no hyphen and "Magic-Barrier" as the property has one, and there shouldn't be.
There's also "Gradual-Petrif." that has one, and here too I really don't see why there should be a hyphen, these are just nouns with their adjectives.

The only reason hyphens exist there is because the Status screen is crap and I had to add them so people could tell it was one Status.

Now these three following suggestions are subjective:
"Touch Me" --> "Touch-Me"? looks more like a name
"Tail Whip" --> "Tail-Whip"? as one entity
"Tail Laser" --> "Tail-Laser"? as one entity

That's excessive really, and I guarantee you more people would have a problem with that than just two words.

- battle commands

"Deathblow" ------> "D.Blow" (a full stop for an abbreviation)
"Double Item" ----> "D-Item" (a hyphen where there are two words)....
"Double Summon" --> "D-Sum." (not enough space for "Summon"?)
"Double Magic" -> "D-Magic" (there is enough space for "Magic" not to be shortened, no?)
"Enemy Skill" ----> "E-Skill"
"Magic Barrier" --> "M-Barrier"
and also I would turn "Manip" into "Manip.", for consistency among abbreviations.

Again it's a choice I made.  A battle command window doesn't have to conform to perfect English.  And using full stops looks tacky in the menu. The player can tell what the words are meant to be there without hyphens or fullstops.

Those entries (All entries not in red or green ) are finalized now regardless.  If they drive you mad, I have nothing against you fixing them up for your own game   There has to come a time to draw a line under it all because we could go round forever with this.

[White Wind]

Got you.

Two different areas but still the same Plate, no ?

For battle commands, yes I understand. Then why not go with no hyphens/ no full stops for all of them? But yeah, those are your choices and you have your reasons, I respect that.
I think that in my copy I'll have some battle commands modified, but just to suit my taste better.

Thanks for your answer

[DLPB_]

Well, depends on if it's status or not.  I use "M-Barrier" because the silly status menu has to have the hyphen.  But non status don't, like D Blow (so I removed  hyphen or full stop from them).   I'll check the plate again but I'm pretty sure there is an inside AND an underneath.

Also, spaces in game are much smaller than fs because FF7s font is clunky.

[White Wind]

But non status don't, like D Blow (so I removed  hyphen or full stop from them).

Actually in the sheet  commands for Deathblow and Enemy Skill are listed as "D-Blow" and "E-Skill".

I'll check the plate again but I'm pretty sure there is an inside AND an underneath.

Yes they're certainly two different areas but what I'm saying is that that 'underneath' and that 'inside' are two areas of the same plate. So if 'underneath' has its '4', I thought that 'inside' could have it too.

[DLPB_]

 The sheet was wrong with regards to D-Blow / E-Skill and has been updated

edit.  You're right about the Plate.  There is an inconsistency there due to the fact I changed one for space.  I'll reexamine it.