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Final Fantasy 7 => Graphics => Releases => Topic started by: WolfMan on 2014-06-10 18:04:04

Title: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-10 18:04:04
Red Werewolf V1.0
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/17/use3ynaq.jpg)


(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/bradhowlett1/image1_zps64330d81.jpg) (http://youtu.be/1Vocucf-Xdo)

7th Heaven Version Here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B42iJjV2gjcpMlVJaW4wNE5zU0U/edit?usp=sharing)
Direct Version Here (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B42iJjV2gjcpMHlpN0t3X19HTVk/edit)

This project has been unreal. It started June 23rd. I cannot believe it is finally finished. This mod replace Red XIII, a quadruped Lionish with a full blown kick-ass werewolf. This mod includes the battle model, field model, Custom animations, 7 limit breaks, avatar and all casting animations. A lot of people have had hands in on this and I really appreciate it. The following are instructions are installation. PLEASE READ!! If you find any problems or bugs or ideas on animation tweaks let me know

:::Thanks:::
to those who worked directly on the project and especially CMH175, who I feel ended up more as a co producer than someone who assisted.

Jeet

Leet

Kaldarasha

EQ2Alyza

Kuroda

And everyone who had suggestions and pointers.

And all of the creators of the tools that were used for the project.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/03/bu9ypysy.jpg)

:::For installation of the Red Werewolf:::

::7thHeaven::

(Can also be downloaded and installed directly from Tifa's Final Heaven catalog *Recommened for automatic updates!* ->
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15520.0 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15520.0))

Download mod and copy iro into your 7thHeaven library. Open 7thHeaven, click the Library Tab,
and hit Search. Find the Red Werewolf and hit the Activate. Go to Active Mods Tab to configure mod. Select your gameplay
compatibility patch in the configuration window. If you're not using a gameplay mod than select Vanilla, it'll say no change.
Otherwise you need to select the patch for the mod you have installed, otherwise your gameplay mod will not function correctly.
NOTE: this is just a patch for the Red Werewolf, it does not actually install the gameplay mods listed. You will need to have
them fully installed. If you're using the Gameplay mods iro from the Tifa's Final Heaven catalog by EQ2Alyza than the Red Werewolf
will need to be placed ABOVE the gameplay mods iro to work correctly! If you decide to change gameplay mods just select your new one
in the configuration window.


::Direct Method::

NOTE: The direct method is not recommended for this mod! To uninstall it and use another Red XIII model you
will need to remove every file from the Red Werewolf mod. It's recommended that you backup your files first, otherwise you may need
to reinstall the game just to use a different Red XIII model.

Open each lgp necessary with an lgp tool and copy the files in and rezip them. Then copy in the kernel files from the vanilla folder,
or find your gameplay mod in the compatibility patch folder. For those with their own custom kernel settings, a patch file has been
included that you can merge with your own files.
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/18/95/55/93/were_b12.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-10 20:06:08
So ok. Here's something I want to do. I hope I don't upset anyone by changing Red XIII but I was thinking it would be really cool to change him into a werewolf. As you can see from my Avatar I might be a little obsessed. I've never done a mod before so I'm assuming this is going to take me a while but I think it will be pretty cool. I need some help though.

1. I dont even know which program to use to do a mod. Can some one link one?
2. Do I have to build the character from the ground up or is there a file I can load for a head start
3. finally. This is a big request. What I would really like to do is retexture the model that CMH did. What are the chances of being able to use your model and retexture it. Of course I would give you all the credit for the build. It's just that your model is perfect to the frame and size I am wanting.

Update:: So I have been working on this for a while now and am having some good progress.
Hoping to get it done soon and sharing the model. I will be doing both field and battle model.
(https://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/zatabege.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/03/bu9ypysy.jpg)

I guess my main question is, what program should I use to open the character files so i can retexture them. And which file would I open to edit Red XIII
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-10 21:29:36
To do something like this you need to use a 3d modeling application (Blender, 3ds Max, Maya) and kimera to assemble the model. You'll also need to edit his animations so he stands up right too. As of now kimera's the only way to do this, but it's finicky, and would be long a tedious. As for permission, first I'd suggest sending it in a pm so the persons sure to get it, I just happened to find this by chance. Out of respect for Ash (the artist) I don't plan on granting permission for any edits or updates of the model. That way there aren't several different versions floating around and issues with quality control. If you're able to edit the battle animations enough with the original model though it's something we can discuss again.

Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-06-10 21:50:21
http://wolfnanaki.tumblr.com/post/30967637324
http://meteor-panda.deviantart.com/art/Colored-Red-75012326

It's not entirely impossible but it would be a lot of work . It would be the same amount of work as the whole Reunion mod. You need a good skeleton (Cid would be a good choice) and you need to modify all animations which will be super painful because Kimera isn't really good in altering animations in a big manner and it often crashes, but it's the only tool we have for it.
A much easier and doable mod would be to swap Vincents first limit with Red XIII's rage limit (was it one of the 3. Grade?) and transform him into a beast version of his kind.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-10 22:15:55
Well, I appreciate all of your input guys. I will get started and see what I end up with. Wish me luck lol
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-10 22:33:59
One more question. FF7 obviously has limitations. Obviously I can't import a Skyrim Werewolf into the game lol. Is there a "mode" I need to be in to create the mod so it will run in FF7
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Scrat on 2014-06-11 07:41:58
I would probably worry about embedding it into the game later, I would start by building your model in blender or 3ds, that should take you long enough to see if Kimera gets updated or any new programs are released. Then you can worry about skeletons and altering animations, etc. and then make the whole thing fit together.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-11 13:18:22
Gotcha. This is going to be interesting
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-06-11 15:01:03
Try first to understand how the models are built in FF7. There is no point in making a model and then realize that it needs to be cut in many several pieces. The worst case is that you need to redo the UV map and texture.
Play around with Kimera and see how the models are working. I don't think that we will get new tools which are needed for your task in the near future. An import/export script for blender would be ideal so we can do all models and animation in it.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-11 17:41:26
Thanks Kaldarasha. I've never done any modeling work. I'm very versatile in Photoshop and illustrator but I've never done 3d. Does Adobe have a program like blender
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2014-06-11 20:14:55
Thanks Kaldarasha. I've never done any modeling work. I'm very versatile in Photoshop and illustrator but I've never done 3d. Does Adobe have a program like blender

No they don't, The equivalent (meaning high end 3d modeling software) would be 3dsMax, Maya or zBrush (thats more for sculpting though) but Blender is free so i'd say start with that. the other programs are all over a thousand i think

Though i personally am trying to get into texturing so i wouldn't mind some advise with illustrator and Photoshop :D
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-11 22:13:21
What are you trying to texture? Thanks for the info
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-11 23:56:21
Omg zBrush is amazing. Has anyone used it before?
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-12 04:58:52
Here's my 2D concept of WereXIII. The base art was done by a fantastic artist in deviantart. I'm currently working on him letting me use his creation as my main influence. Of course when I start on zBrush I will be creating him from the ground up. Trust me I did a ton of alterations to get this look as he used to be black and red and had none of the Red XIII accessories. Hope you like it. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/12/zavygynu.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-06-12 11:58:24
Cool concept! Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-12 13:33:07
Thank you. Don't expect it too soon leonhart. This will be my first time modeling. I'm strong in graphic art but 3D? I'm nervous. Lol. I will continue updating the project. I'm getting zBrush tomorrow. I've been tutorialing my head off for the last 2 days.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-06-12 14:04:18
If you are very good in 2D it should be fairly easy for you to create a 3D model. You will make some mistakes (most times wrong proportions) but I'm sure you will learn very fast. I have seen good 3D models from guys who aren't good in 2D at all. Search for video tutorials, they will help you a lot to find good strategies for the whole model process.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-12 16:33:31
If you are very good in 2D it should be fairly easy for you to create a 3D model. You will make some mistakes (most times wrong proportions) but I'm sure you will learn very fast. I have seen good 3D models from guys who aren't good in 2D at all. Search for video tutorials, they will help you a lot to find good strategies for the whole model process.

Thank you for the encouraging advice. I can't wait to start on this.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-12 17:25:55
Great concept, pretty badass. Glad to hear you're going with zbrush, it's an incredible tool. Using zspheres for a project like this will really simplify it and yield great results. Just make sure you remember to adjust the polycount as you go along. Sculpting in zbrush creates millions of polygons which aren't video game friendly. You can easily fix this while you're working, just something to be aware of. 
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-12 19:09:59
Great concept, pretty badass. Glad to hear you're going with zbrush, it's an incredible tool. Using zspheres for a project like this will really simplify it and yield great results. Just make sure you remember to adjust the polycount as you go along. Sculpting in zbrush creates millions of polygons which aren't video game friendly. You can easily fix this while you're working, just something to be aware of.

thanks. any idea for a polycount to aim for? Rough estimate of course.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-12 19:44:03
You'd actually be surprised how high you can go with this game, I've imported models with about 30k. I wouldn't go much higher though, you may also have problems with kimera crashing. There's work arounds if that's the case, plus zbrush makes adjusting the polycount pretty easy with ZRemesher. When you're ready just cut the model in half and import the piece for the head. If it loads properly with the diffuse texture (cant use anything else unfortunately, no normal maps) and kimera doesn't crash when you move the piece you're good to go. 
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-06-12 20:13:23
I think 15K to 25K is more than enough. You won't see much details anyway thanks to the low FPS in battle and on field is the camera most times to far away.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-14 17:34:41
So... After 7 hrs of building learning and understanding here is what I have so far. It's not much but hey it's my first time ever. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/15/u3ysugy4.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-06-14 17:50:17
Lovely play doh!!! I wanna squeeze it! :P :P

Seriously! Great detailed model!
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-14 18:24:27
I think the colorizing and texturing is going to be the most fun but the biggest challenge.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: dkma841 on 2014-06-15 00:12:14
.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-15 00:41:24
Very impressive you're picking up zbrush very quickly. Particularly the ears, ears and hands take awhile to get used to. The trick will be maintaining your detail while keeping a low polycount. Unfortunately you cant save a low poly version first and use baked textures (only diffuse with FF7). I'd say go for broke and go nuts with the sculpting tools, see just how detailed you can get while learning the tools suite. Some of it will be lost when you lower the divisions, but that way you also have a high poly version for renderings and stuff. 
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-15 23:11:07
New day. Getting the muscles and starting on veins and cheek fur. This is a blast. I feel like a kid in a candy store. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/16/e8a8uhe4.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-06-15 23:57:02
Awesome!
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-16 00:32:47
Soo who's gonna help me with the animation side when I get the model done? Lol
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-16 21:11:05
Looking good. Looking forward to seeing how you sculpt the fur. Here's a quick idea of what adjusting the animations would be like. I literally just rotated the bones on the X axis. You can also propagate the frame (as you can only edit the bones this way on the animation, not the actual model) so you only need to edit it once, at least for the most part. I'm not very good at editing FF7 animations though. A few other members seem pretty good at it though. For the most part it's actually pretty do-able. If you want him to still run on all fours than even easier, as most of his animations wouldn't need any changes. I'd say in the end it's just a matter of time than difficulty.   

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10352355_228952500647915_721919936435934431_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-16 22:08:55
I made an alpha in Photoshop for the body fur that I'm going to use. The torso will be skin. Will I use zBrush to cut him into in the head body arms and legs?
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-16 22:13:51
I'm going with a SS3 Goku style hair for the mane
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-17 00:27:04
I'm going with a SS3 Goku style hair for the mane

I noticed, looks pretty cool. An alpha map? That's fine for now, and for any renders you'd like to use, but for actually importing into FF7 you need a completed mesh (no Ngons if you can manage it) and diffuse textures. Your best bet is to sculpt detail into the model as much as you can, and add anything extra in Photoshop later.

Cutting the model maybe difficult in zbrush, but if you're familiar enough with it it could work fine. I personally use either blender or maya for cutting and filling holes, but zbrush may make it easier to round out the holes you fill and repaint the new faces. That'll seem a lot easier once you've finished the model.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-17 12:30:23
So last night I found an obj of goku. I was going to cut his hair off and merge it to Red. Simple? No. Nightmare. So I'm going to watch some tutorials and hopefully post some progress tonight. Ugh!!
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-17 13:30:46
I personally have no problem with that, but that'll break Qhimm's policy on ripped material. To publicly release the completed model here it'll need to be 100% yours. Plus cutting the hair off Goku will be a mess and wont port to Red XIII very well. With some practice you'll be able to sculpt much more detailed hair in zbrush anyway. A common mistake in zbrush with hair is people start sculpting it attached to the head, as one piece. It'll be much easier if you break things like this up and make them separately. Essentially making the hair more like a wig, and the character bald lol. 
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-17 14:34:37
Oh. I am sorry. Even though I purchased the model? Wouldn't that give me full rights to it? If that's still against the rules I'm all about respect. Just curious. And I've already began remolding the hair from scratch.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-06-17 15:05:21
You never purchase a model, only very limited rights to use a copy of it.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-17 16:06:35
Oh. Ok. Sorry I thought it was like purchasing images to use for design. My fault. I will build the hair from scratch. :)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Covarr on 2014-06-17 17:28:53
It depends on where you purchased it. Some folk only allow their models to be used in pre-rendered images (including movies), or will charge more for distributing the model itself in any forum (such as including it in a game's data). They also tend to have different terms as far as using just pieces of the model.

When buying this stuff, it's always a good idea to look at the terms on the purchase agreement.

edit: That said, if you have redistribution rights for a model, it's fully allowed here.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-17 17:37:57
It's a grey area. I'm not sure what the policy is on buying models. I'd say you're better doing the hair anyway since it'll really help with mastering zbrush. The long hair probably wont be the hardest part anyway, sculpting the fur and detail into the body and face will take the most effort. Here's an example of what I mean.

(http://cdn.memeslanding.com/2013/9/12/memeslanding.com_1729_1379961511.jpg)

Timelapse video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUe2IHN_isU&feature=kp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUe2IHN_isU&feature=kp)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-17 19:02:47
Thanks covarr
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-17 19:03:54
Thanks CMH great info. You guys are awesome!!!!
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-17 19:56:06
Quick question cmh, will it make a difference that I did this purely from a ball and did not use zspheres?
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-17 20:58:43
I think you are using zspheres, unless you switched to Dynamesh. The prompt should tell you though, and it sculpts differently so you'll know. The sphere is just a primitive shape you can use to start with, otherwise you can also use cylinders, cubes, and a few others.

~by the way, here's a reference of a werewolf sculpted in zbrush to give you ideas for the fur.

(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/135/4/b/Manimal___Werewolf_by_rwolf.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-17 21:14:54
That's an awesome render. Won't the fur get knocked out though when I drop to low res?
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-18 01:49:27
I'd say go with a wait and see attitude lol. You'll have a highly detailed model for your own use that way (whether it's ff7 friendly or not) and the experience of making it. If your finished model is really too dense you can always use retopology. I'd say go for as many polygons as you can possibly fit into FF7 and maintain your detail, since you can only use a diffuse texture. You can use photoshop to add more effects to the texture so it doesn't look as flat, but it wont look the same as a more detailed model. Usually this isn't what you want to do for a game, but FF7 works a bit differently than other games and since you cant use normal, alpha, specular, or any next gen texture mapping it'll work out ok. I checked my largest model and it's actually about 60k. I had issues with kimera crashing (there are work arounds for that though) but it works fine in the game.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-18 04:19:07
Thanks for everything. I still think your red xiii is one of the best textures I've seen.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-18 06:24:52
I really feel like hands feet and texture is all I have left on the model itself. Man this is really coming along great
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/18/uma8eme3.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/18/erapymu6.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/18/ja2ute8u.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-06-18 11:02:52
Here is a short sketch of WerRed XIII I made:
(http://s1.directupload.net/images/140618/w5aivsjc.jpg)
I didn't spend much time on it all I wanted is to give you a better idea for his hair.
The face of your model remembers me more on the great ape form Dragon ball.
The short hair looks good but the long hair looks more like spikes or horns.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-18 13:30:40
That looks great, it's really coming along. I suppose it could resemble the Great Ape a bit, but it'll look more like your 2d reference when you finish the hair. Something to be aware of though, at some point you'll need to split the lips apart and do the inside of the mouth. Don't forget he uses his teeth to attack. That's something for later on though when the body's mostly done and you're ready to do his accessories. One thing I did notice between Kaldarasha's drawing and your reference is the tail, granted you mentioned it was a deviant art entry you edited to resemble Red XIII. Are you planning to add the flame to his tail?

Thanks, Ash sculpted detail and used polypaint in zbrush after modeling a lowpoly mesh in Maya to get started. It's a powerful tool.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-18 15:52:20
That's a great sketch Kaldarasha. I am trying hard to get the hair right. It is kind of a pain. Lol. I am going to revisit it tonight. Here's my thing though, I am going for almost an entirely new character that is just loosely based on Red XIII. My goal is to convert him to a wolf. My brother has been picking at me too about the tail. I am torn. I think I am going to start over on the hair though. Thanks for the advise guys.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-06-18 17:09:48
I'd prefer the fair to be it a bit more pointy...

(http://i.imgur.com/jWU3Qow.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/wd6GNg3.png)

(and I know this is the Griever, don't say a word!)  :evil:

or maybe something like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/wWHXZEW.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/iLIjbJo.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-18 17:52:50
I think the last picture is pretty good, it's similar to the 2d reference actually, just a bit shorter. Something like that longer with a bit of the SSJ3 style you're thinking of would look pretty cool. For the tail I think it looks pretty cool, but the flame is like THE Red XIII trait. It'll really set the werewolf apart from other designs too. I think if you do what you have in the 2d reference, but change the part where the tail curves up and gets thicker into the flame it'll look really cool. The fur there already looks similar to how the fire would look anyway so it wouldn't be a huge redesign. I marked the part of the tail I'm talking about here:


(http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r570/cmh175/zavygynu.jpg)

Making the end of the tail there into fire wouldn't be too much a change, and would look pretty cool. Maybe start the flame a bit further down the tail so it's not as big, but the design isn't too far off as it is.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-18 19:01:53
I agree guys. I'm going to take this all in. :)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-19 06:06:06
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/19/y4ebaza3.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/19/4eqa5ehy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/19/ube6uqab.jpg)
I finally have it the way I like. Now I just need to detail hands and feet. Add feathers. Add ankle bracelets. Add arm bands. Then color.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Salk on 2014-06-19 08:03:44
I would never swap the original characters' creative design but you did really good on that model. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-19 12:06:17
Thanks Salk. Red XIII has always been my favorite character but I always thought as a kid it would have been better if he stood on two feet.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-06-19 14:44:50
Great!
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-23 05:41:21
More progress
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/23/ehade5uj.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/23/u5e5erun.jpg)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-23 13:56:12
Damn look at that. I like the hair, though you painted it the same color as the rest of the fur. Great progress. I'd suggest finishing all the detail first though before painting the model, it'll be easier to sculpt fine and minor details in the default grey. Unless you have a particular plan or work flow. 
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-23 15:11:43
The hair and fur are actually different colors. But they are definitely too close in hue. Lol. I'm thinking of removing the color, finishing the model and then re coloring with different colors. Thanks cmh
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Iceboundphoenix on 2014-06-24 06:24:52
I really like this concept and am cheering you on man. Bravo on the work you have done so far this gets me giddy thinking that red XII could be this awesome.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-24 06:35:36
Thanks Ice. I want to start by saying that this is my final detail/texture sculpt post. Sorry if I update too much. I'm both excited and enjoying the feedback and criticism. Only thing I have left is ankle bracelets, wrist chains and feathers. After that it's color time. Once I'm finished with that I will post a final 3D concept. Then it's on to blender and Kimera.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/neruvazy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/a9eje8yd.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/evanaga6.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/tyqyba2e.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/atave6uv.jpg)

Hope you all like him so far. Let me know if you if you have any thoughts or improvements.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Mendelevium on 2014-06-24 10:37:30
I Love the detailing on the chest. The collar bones are amazing, I don't know why those stood out. The only thing that bugs me a little bit are the veins are perfectly mirrored. Not something you'd notice in game; but it just something that stood out to me. Particularly the one that appears on either side of the chest. o.o.

Maybe it's just me though! ^^

Awesome work so far, regardless. I've always wanted to learn Zbrush :o.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-24 12:34:55

I Love the detailing on the chest. The collar bones are amazing, I don't know why those stood out. The only thing that bugs me a little bit are the veins are perfectly mirrored. Not something you'd notice in game; but it just something that stood out to me. Particularly the one that appears on either side of the chest. o.o.

Maybe it's just me though! ^^

Awesome work so far, regardless. I've always wanted to learn Zbrush :o.
Your right lol. It's definitely easy to lose yourself in symmetry mode. Your also right about not noticing in game mode. Because when I dumb this down the veins will probably disappear all together.
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-06-24 13:15:32
Awesome model! I'd prefer the hair a little more pointy but that's not so much of an issue.

Looking forward for any future project of yours. Your skills in modeling are quite promising! :)
Title: Re: Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-24 15:25:51
thanks LeonhartGR. Ya I tried the more pointy hair but it clashed with the fact the rest of the model is so curved.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-24 18:57:43
Looks great. What's your current polycount? I do agree that it's too symmetrical. If you switch it off though and add a few extra details on each side to switch it up some that should do. Have you decided what you want the final model to look like? If you want to just edit the idle animation so he's standing up, and have him still run on all fours that would certainly be easier. It's possible to edit them further so he's always standing up, but it depends on how much time you want to put into it. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Iceboundphoenix on 2014-06-24 19:38:50
I am curious how the limit break animations are going to function. All in all the model looks pristine the crème de la crème of effort as one would put it. I am even more intrigued to see how the animation is handled.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-24 19:56:21
I'm very curious on animations too lol. This is the first time I've ever tried any of this. But obviously I catch on quick. :) This is pretty much how I want him to look. Obviously have to add color and a couple accessories and tattoos. Poly on him is 8.452 million. Lmao I've already created a low poly rendition at 80k. I hope that will work

I will try to upload the low res poly tonight
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-25 12:56:19
Ok so using zremesher I dropped polycount to 68k. I will have to put his eye back in but I don't the it looks too bad. I also so a tutorial on how zbrush can paint detail back in using the high res model. I'll have to watch that again. A lot of info all at once.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/25/y2asaqyz.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/25/jesagypy.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: halkun on 2014-06-25 18:42:28
Before you tessellated the model, did you get a UV bake for later application?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-25 19:06:12
I have both models now. The high res and low res. both saved. I'm going to paint the high res and then I should be able to use that on the game model right
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-25 20:06:09
For the most part yes, but you can only use a diffuse texture. Normally you'd also at least use a normal map, but we currently cant import them. So any extra detail you'd like will need to be added to the diffuse. By the way, I find it easier to keep everything detailed and straight to divide pieces up while modeling. For example make the eye socket in the head, but model the eye separately. That way you can also duplicate pieces in multiple places. Same with hair and accessories. Other than the eyes though it looks like that's what you've been doing. 68k is definitely still a high poly game model, but shouldn't be an issue.   
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-25 21:38:13
I'm learning now about diffuse textures. Hopefully I can get this all wrapped up tonight. Any suggestions on a program for animating?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 06:33:53
Now this is awesome. This is my favorite part.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/26/2y4uje3e.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/26/y5e3ebez.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/26/by7ajade.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/26/e3ujejyt.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/26/3azu8ehy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/26/ebymajuq.jpg)

Tats ankle bracelets and minor detail and then the full res will be done
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-06-26 07:06:52
Is it possible to make with ZBrush a UVMap? That actually a very important thing.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 12:37:14
Yes. They have what's called UV master. Probably one of the most intuitive mapping programs
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-06-26 15:20:52
Oh gosh! That's a standing RedXIII! So irie!  :mrgreen:

(http://i.imgur.com/E3zMOei.gif)(http://i.imgur.com/JdfIvCI.gif)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 15:50:59
LoL LeonhartGR. Still have a ways to go yet. I feel like the fun part is pretty much over and I am now getting into the actual work mode with animation and porting
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 16:23:53
How many animations does RedXIII have? I figured it would be way less than most since he is not huge to the story line.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-26 17:55:29
He has 33 animations total. If you just want to edit the idle animation so he's standing up that wouldn't be too hard at all, but if you also want him to attack and run on two legs that'll take more time.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 18:18:34
only thing is that his head/neck structure is really not designed for going down on all 4s. You know what I mean? Although maybe I can start with the idle animation and toss him in the game just to see it. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 18:19:42
Im also considering the attack to be a bite and two claw swipes
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-26 18:24:17
If you cut and fill the holes for the neck and chest it should transfer from two to four feet stances just fine. It'll depend more on the animations. That attack would be very cool. It'll require some work in kimera though to remove the jump and flipping attack he does instead. Yeah starting with the idle animation and taking it from there's probably best.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 18:26:00
Will I be animating in Kimera? Or Can I animate in Maya
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-26 18:35:48
Being able to edit animations in Maya would be incredible lol. Sadly we currently have no way of exporting them from FF7 or back again. Kimera is the only animation editor we have. It'll do the job though. Kaldarsha and a few others have made some great alterations to the animations.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 19:39:17
K. Thanks again cmh. If wasn't for you guys this would be nothing but a pipe dream
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 21:01:03
Will I be chopping up the character in PCreator or Kimera or can I use zBrush to sake the individual parts as obj's?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-26 21:18:43
You can either cut the model up in zbrush or Blender (Maya if you have it). Pcreator will convert the .3ds files into FF7 .p files.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 21:53:05
OK here we go again. Not knowing anything about a program and hoping i can just make it make sense. Would you say the hard part as far as learning is over. I mean zBrush is pretty extensive. It would give me confidence to know the other software I will be working with is easier to learn. I know that the tediousness is going to increase, but I'm fine with that. I have enough patience, I could literally watch grass grow. LoL
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-26 22:01:18
Blender's pretty simple, and since you only need a few tools in particular to import a FF7 model it wont take long to learn.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 22:43:40
Last question of the night :)... should the hair be part of the head or part of head where it meets head and part of back where it meets back?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-26 23:03:35
You mean the neck piece? It's probably fine to leave it all part of the head. You'll need to cut the bottom jaw off though, it's a separate piece.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-26 23:31:03
so where there's a joint there's a new body part? ex: hand forearm upper arm and sholder
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-27 00:46:31
Yup, and for the most part yours will fit the skeleton the same way. Maybe easier to import yours first than do the animations. Which btw, you should pose the hands how ever you want them to look in the game first, because they wont move.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-27 03:07:25
Not sure how useful this might be, but you could use Gallian Beast's idle animation as a point of reference for where to have each part of the skeleton be for every frame of the idle animation. You'll be working with a lot of numbers so starting with that and then tweaking it so that the parts are moving together could be a way to start, assuming it works. Only problem is Gallian doesn't have a neck, it's just the head connected to the torso (but I think I read somewhere here that the neck was being omitted?) In any case, might be worth looking at.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-06-27 08:18:31
The best way to start to animate is to make a standard stance. Kill all frames except of one (but note the number of frames somewhere). Move the bones as you need them (Save often! Kimera likes to crash unpredictable!). Copy the frame so you have then 2 frames. The basic idea is to make two extreme animation conditions and let Kimera interpolating the rest. Well it could be that you will need sometimes more conditions. The real problem is that you can't copy a frame to another animation, so you have to do these steps over and over again every time and this makes it so hard to animate in Kimera (and the crashes!).
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-06-27 13:12:29
See I had no idea you could do that lol. That's certainly easier than I was expecting at least. With this in mind though you should actually do the animations first than. Kimera wont crash nearly as much with the original Red XIII model. Or use two Kimera windows and make edits to one with the original model, and just copy the animation file over to your imported model to see how you like it (just copy the **da file) that way you can do the import first if you like. Definitely save often, after every major change or every ten minutes.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-27 13:13:30
Thanks for all the advice guys. It's like a classroom in here. Kaldarasha, this really paints a great picture for getting everything going. Sega, I will check out gallian for some reference idle animations
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-27 14:15:04
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/27/a6umy6e3.jpg)
WereXIII is recovering from his new tatts. I feel bad for the tattoo artist. Lol
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-06-30 13:47:08
Hey everyone. I have some kinda bad news. I picked up a night job. So to go from the model to the game is going to take me a long time. Would anyone want to help me get this guy finished? If so just pm me and I'll send you the obj
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-01 06:56:26
Here is the FINAL high res render.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/yne8ebyq.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/5a5abu9e.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/u7e8yve4.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/u8y7amen.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/a2ydy2u5.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/2aseru6a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/ube8y2yj.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/7u4a5y3y.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/y9ypejyt.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-07-01 13:58:55
Freaking awesome! What do those chains represent? They seem to hurt that poor fellow. He seems so kind...
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-01 14:56:00
Lol. I just thought chains would have been more necessary to keep this guy in that glass dome. Lol
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-03 06:16:11
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/03/bu9ypysy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/03/emu2upa7.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/03/edu6egu5.jpg)

Did a lot of fine detail editing. Made the bracelets smaller. Completely recreated the hands. This I am pretty sure is the final high res render. Thank you everyone for the input. Now it's time to get this beast in the game.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-03 13:37:30
Great stuff man. The left leg looks like it's having some issues, but that maybe just from posing it. I assume you'll have it in a regular T pose while cutting it so that shouldn't be an issue. Have you done any testing in kimera yet? Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Sonicmfc on 2014-07-03 14:24:23
This looks amazing well done! My only question is how do you plan to get it into the game can Kimera be used for this?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-03 14:34:44
I'm hoping to do the diffuse map then generate the low res model and project the map to him. Ya the posing in zbrush is kinda tricky and I was tired lol. Yes I will have him in t pose for exporting. I'm going to test importing the head to kimera tonight.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-03 14:49:49
Very cool. Looking forward to seeing that. A tip for kimera sizing btw: I like to import my new pieces to roughly match the original pieces size, but maintain the proportions of the model I'm importing. So when you're resizing everything, keep the XYZ measurements the same as much as possible. It's ok if it comes out slightly bigger than the original, resizing the bones to adjust for this is pretty simple too. Generally when you first add a new part in kimera it'll either be massive or almost too tiny to see. In this case try dropping it down to 10, or increasing it by 100. You'll get the hang of it, but I suggest going in increments of five and it's multiples. More importantly though remember how you sized something, write it down as you go along, so you can quickly repeat that process with each piece. I have found resizing one piece by +50, and than another by +25 and +25 again don't actually come out the same size. Maybe just my perception, but it's easier to just find and stick with a single formula. Plus that'll help with flipping pieces that import upside down and backwards.     
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-03 15:22:20
See this is why I'm here. You guys actually care to see this get finished and help so much
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-03 15:24:13
Yes sonic. Kimera is hopefully going to be my bridge from zbrush to ff7. Does anyone have a game save that is right before you get red xiii?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-03 16:24:39
Every game save you'll ever need for testing -> http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8880.msg115218#msg115218 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8880.msg115218#msg115218)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-03 17:01:04
Perfect
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-04 23:08:30
So I guess I have to reprint him. :(
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-05 00:07:41
Reprint? What are you trying to do? Did it not work in kimera?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-05 03:44:05
I didn't save my subdivisions so now when I try to map the textures zbrush has an error.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-08 18:56:56
I meant repaint cmh. I have a reduce model down to 70k polys. I will repaint and export the map. Then get him into blender to cut him up as it looks like it will be easier to close the whole with blender than it will be with zBrush.
Then I will be getting him into Kimera and hopefully start on animations.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2014-07-08 19:02:45
I meant repaint cmh. I have a reduce model down to 70k polys. I will repaint and export the map. Then get him into blender to cut him up as it looks like it will be easier to close the whole with blender than it will be with zBrush.
Then I will be getting him into Kimera and hopefully start on animations.

Can the FF7 engine handle 70k polys? I'm not sure how the poly's to tris conversion works, But i believe the TA Cloud is only 7k tris
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-08 19:29:17
I've imported massive poly models before. They can be tricky in kimera but work just fine in the game.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-08 20:18:41
How about a 3 million poly?? lol
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-09 12:34:25
So I just learned 2 new tools in zbrush. Decimation master and zProject.
Decimation master was able to take my 6.54 million polygon render down to 60k and kept nearly every detail I added!!

zProject did something unbelievable as well. Painting a high res model always looks best. But unwrapping a 6mil poly takes a NASA computer. Lol. With zProject I was able to transfer all of the beautiful color info to the 60k model!!

This program is unreal. I'll post a pic soon of the low res model. It pretty impressive what the software can do.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-07-09 12:36:16
Great! Can't wait!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-09 12:45:10
I have to transfer the hair accessories and tattoos from to low but this was the hard portion to convert and I lost almost nothing. I can believe it.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/09/a9y4ajep.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/09/a9asyvad.jpg)
Yes these models are only 60k!!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-07-09 13:49:15
Awesome! Just like with the new RedXIII model!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-09 13:50:51
With this kind of technology making in game models has endless possibilities.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-10 13:34:53
I'm getting ready to cut him into parts. Should I cut him like a toy? For example should the mane on his head be a separate item from the mane on his back
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-10 15:04:22
No, try to cut him as closely as the original as you can. All the hair should be connected to the top of the head (otherwise it'll connect to the neck, not good), and the head needs to be cut at the jaw so the mouth can open (most attacks are with teeth). You need to have transitional area between each piece, meaning that they interconnect and end in rounded numbs basically. That way when each piece moves there aren't any holes. Your model will end up as closely to the original as possible for now, than the animations can be edited so he's standing up.

~oops not all hair, the braids going down the front are separate pieces (each one is actually three). You can just import one though and mirror it onto the other side since they're the same.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-10 15:19:26
No, try to cut him as closely as the original as you can. All the hair should be connected to the top of the head (otherwise it'll connect to the neck, not good), and the head needs to be cut at the jaw so the mouth can open (most attacks are with teeth). You need to have transitional area between each piece, meaning that they interconnect and end in rounded numbs basically. That way when each piece moves there aren't any holes. Your model will end up as closely to the original as possible for now, than the animations can be edited so he's standing up.

~oops not all hair, the braids going down the front are separate pieces (each one is actually three). You can just import one though and mirror it onto the other side since they're the same.

Got it
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-11 20:45:29
OK:: Summary report and looking for any pointers for next steps.
Model is down to 60k polygons. Parts and accessories are all split:
Head, Neck, Lower Jaw, Hands, Forearms, Upper arm, Chest, Torso, Tail, Thighs, Shens, ankles and feet.
Textures are done, holes are filed(which by the way click fill holes in zBrush and all done).
I feel like I am ready for kimera. Or do I need to do something with the textures? I have read cmh's wonderful tutorial but I used zBrush instead of blender and don't know if I'm ready for kimera or not.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-11 20:53:15
If the model's cut, holes are filled, and you have your textures ready than it's time for kimera. Have you compared pieces to the original model? Sometimes you do have to recut parts while importing but comparing your pieces to the original greatly helps. If it looks good than you're all set.

To get started I suggest starting with the core of the body, chest and lower chest pieces. From there you can do the neck and than head pieces. Legs and feet are good next, and finishing with the tail. That's how I did Red XIII and generally most imports. You can resize some bones as necessary but try to fit the original body as much as possible, and maintain your models proportions.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-11 21:31:44
I still need to convert the texture file with img2text right? Before i go to kimera
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-11 22:28:05
Yup, it'll need to be a 24bit bmp with all transparent area black (0,0,0)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-12 16:00:57
Teeth were a pain. lol (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/13/a9eze3u9.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/13/ymuma7ab.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/13/ehy7ejyr.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-14 03:33:07
Omg guys. I cannot get kimera to load. I get an error saying that one of the dlls are not initialized. I tried installing them manually but no luck. This is really frustrating. Is there an installer maybe or something?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-14 13:06:00
If I can ever figure out how to get kimera to load here are the animations I want to use. These are sweet!!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LdXCgGFBkj8
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-14 14:11:18
I'm trying to remember how I got Kimera working. I don't know if these are necessary, but I remember installing all the dependencies for Visual Basic 6 on top of the .dll files that Kimera reports as being missing. Maybe that's part of it?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-14 14:15:25
Ok. I put the two dll files in the system32 folder and tried to install them in command line but they failed. Very frustrating.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-14 14:39:11
I forget exactly too. I had to google how to install them. This has also been thoroughly discussed on the kimera thread so you can find more info there. I may have even written out directions on how to do this. What error are you getting?

The animations look cool. With some work you can pretty much do what ever you like.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-14 15:00:21
I'll head over to the gigantic kimera board. Lol.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-14 15:01:58
If you try searching the forum for the dll's you need to install you'll probably find it.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-14 17:08:39
K. Thanks guys
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-15 03:31:28
Omg I fixed it. Yay!!!!!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-15 16:09:21
I posted this in troubleshooting but didn't get a response and was wondering if maybe I'd have more luck here.

I'm really sorry for reopening this ugly wound of a post. Lol. I have selected options>Battle Model and Textures. Then I went to file open and selected Head.3ds. It loaded in white. Then I selected the middle drop down menu and clicked on head-0. The head turned red. I finally click on File and "open bitmap" is greyed out and not selectable. I am really wanting to get this ball rolling. Hopefully I used good enough grammar for some help. Lol. JK but really, you guys don't pull any punches around here.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/15/rezu4ane.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-15 16:39:50
You also have to set how many textures the model will be using. Its in pcreator somewhere
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-15 17:10:45
When I exported him out of meshlab there was 2 checkboxes checked. One was textures and I cannot recall the other. Should they have been turned off?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Sonicmfc on 2014-07-15 19:26:23
The exact same thing happened to me I think it's when the part has too many polys/triss because for example when I had a subsurfed model set to 3 the triss count came up at like 17000 so the option was greyed out in Pcreator but when I reduced the subsurf to 2 the triss count came down to around 7000 and that seemed to work. I find the limit being between 7000 and 8000 before it allows me to open the bitmap file. In blender I also used the decimate modifier if the model only needed a small reduction in polygons. There's probably a better explanation but I'm just speaking from my personal experience with he tool.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-15 21:12:37
I appreciate the info Sonic. But if you look closer at the image, it has the polys listed and there is only 7,328. :(
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-16 00:17:21
Have you tried opening the part in another 3d application? Check the 3ds file in blender, does it still have the uv mapping? If the uv mapping gets corrupt than you wont be able to add textures in pcreator. I had that issue with my Red XIII. Grimmy suggested it was probably because of how big the diffuse texture was, and how small the part was. Try converting the piece again, if it still does it try cropping the texture so it just has enough for the part and try again. This is what I did with the tip of the tail on my Red XIII model.

Luckily this problem doesn't happen often. If the uv mapping is ok you can just import the piece directly to kimera. It'll probably look black though, so you'll need to adjust the brightness until it matches the other pieces (usually just solid white).
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-16 05:36:20
I figured it out. Thanks cmh. You were right. Next question. When I get every thing loaded into kimera and click save model. What do I save it as?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-16 13:35:37
Try to always save it over the skeleton file (always **AA, the first one). When adding new parts and textures it'll say something else, probably the last opened file, so always find the location of your model and select the first file. The battle models are retroactive, so if you change the skeleton file name (RTAA-RDAA) it'll change every file name for the model, so it's also very easy to overwrite other models if you aren't careful.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-17 22:28:38
Hey everyone. I am thinking of starting a zBrush thread. This program does so many things for the community that would streamline modding.
Ex:
Decimation Master - Allows you to make a character with millions of polys and drop it to 30 or 40k without loosing any visible details!!
zProject Brush - Paint your high character and then paint your low res with the high res info
Cut and Fill holes - Yep Select, click on fill whole done!
NEW MatCap Baker - So I hate how amazing everything looks in zBrush and then you export the texture and everything is flat. MatCap baker allows you to select a material that gives you all the low lights and highlghts your want and bakes it into the normal map
(http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=319936)
(http://www.zbrushcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=319940)
My question is this. Would it even be worth making a support thread for this software considering its price of $795.00
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-18 02:47:02
I'd say so and definitely agree it's one of my favorite 3d applications, but I'm not sure how big the zbrush user community is here.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-18 02:58:53
I thought you would like this plugin. You can get it from the pixologoic community.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-18 06:11:26
Here's the final low res with all accessories. I'm very pleased with it. I'll add tattoos in Photoshop due to it will look cleaner. Hoping to import by the end of next week.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/vyvuta4a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/6aru7yhu.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-07-18 12:41:33
Those teeth!

(http://i.imgur.com/xNpe1Og.gif)

 :-D
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Luigi Brosse on 2014-07-18 13:07:03
I agree, it is a bit too much :) The rest is very nice though.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-07-18 16:20:36
Wut? I like them :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-18 16:22:42
The teeth look pretty good. Are the fangs too long in the front? It'll depend how they look with the mouth closed (well mostly closed, the field model still shows some teeth, or at least looks cool when it does lol).
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-18 16:59:48
Hey everyone. I am thinking of starting a zBrush thread. This program does so many things for the community that would streamline modding.
Ex:
Decimation Master - Allows you to make a character with millions of polys and drop it to 30 or 40k without loosing any visible details!!
zProject Brush - Paint your high character and then paint your low res with the high res info
Cut and Fill holes - Yep Select, click on fill whole done!
NEW MatCap Baker - So I hate how amazing everything looks in zBrush and then you export the texture and everything is flat. MatCap baker allows you to select a material that gives you all the low lights and highlghts your want and bakes it into the normal map
My question is this. Would it even be worth making a support thread for this software considering its price of $795.00

You could do pretty much the same in blender and this tool is for free. The downside of blender is the heavy learn curve, it has a lot of functions which may surpass the ability of zBrush, but it's hard to find out how to use them and the access to them isn't that easy as in zBrush either. Actually I wanted to make an easy Blender tutorial this week, but the 60FPS project has a much higher rank to me (by the way using subsurf was a bad suggestion by me). What we truly need is a UV map arrangement that is useful to build many models with it. I think two textures are enough for this (one texture for Head, Body and Hip and one texture for the arms and legs). If we then make some resource meshes which use the two textures, then we could recreate nearly all NPC with in a month.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-18 17:05:21
The fang go around the lower jaw exposing them when the mouth is closed looks awesome. Very macabre. That's what I was going for. Instead of Red XIII loosely based on the look of a werewolf I'm going for a creepy dark werewolf loosely based on Red XIII. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-18 17:07:09
Thanks Leo. LOVE THE AD!!! Lol.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 05:31:58
Ahhhhh. I cannot get from obj to kimera. Here's what I'm doing.

I have a single mesh and polygroup. He is fully painted. I cut him into pieces in the correct bone and joint locations. I then fill the wholes. I now have him into pieces and fully painted. I create uvs and export them. I then export the bottom jaw to obj. Open in mesh lab. The jaw comes in fully painted. Export to 3ds. Open in pcreator. Open uv. Flip y. Export. convert bmp to tex.  When I put the jaw in kimera and load uv the color looks all flipped around and doesn't place on the jaw correctly. Wtf am I missing?!??
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-23 13:37:45
When you say you're importing the jaw into kimera and load the uv, what is it you're actually doing? After you add the texture in the correct texture slot you just need to import the piece. I'm not sure if you can reimport uv mapping to kimera, though it apparently has tons of features I'm not aware of lol. If your .3ds file look correct with the texture applied than it should work correctly in kimera if you've flipped the Y on the uv mapping in pcreator. If it does it again I can take a look at your project files and see what's happening.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-23 13:59:24
With this mod, are you planning to alter Red XIII's animations so that he's standing up?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 15:43:33
Thanks CMH. I will look at it tonight and if it continues to do so, I will send files to you.

Obesebear: Yes that is what my plans are.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-23 16:25:33
Thanks CMH. I will look at it tonight and if it continues to do so, I will send files to you.

Obesebear: Yes that is what my plans are.
You might want to go ahead and try to manipulate Red's animations to see what you're getting yourself into.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 16:49:30
You might want to go ahead and try to manipulate Red's animations to see what you're getting yourself into.
I do realize I'm getting myself in deep. I'm just kinda hoping that if I can get him to the animation point which is the last step, someone can help me on that end.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-23 17:11:06
I do realize I'm getting myself in deep. I'm just kinda hoping that if I can get him to the animation point which is the last step, someone can help me on that end.
There was a project a few years ago where 2 or 3 guys were going to redo certain animations.  I'm pretty sure they did half of 1 and quit.   The only feasible way to create animations is to make an import export  tool.

Borde tried to make a COLLADA one but eventually gave up.  Really, your best bet is to figure out how to substitute Galian Beast's animations over Red's.  Either way good luck
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 18:19:59
There was a project a few years ago where 2 or 3 guys were going to redo certain animations.  I'm pretty sure they did half of 1 and quit.   The only feasible way to create animations is to make an import export  tool.

Borde tried to make a COLLADA one but eventually gave up.  Really, your best bet is to figure out how to substitute Galian Beast's animations over Red's.  Either way good luck

OK. I will look into it thank you. Hopefully I haven't done all of this for nothing :(
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-07-23 18:20:47
There was a project a few years ago where 2 or 3 guys were going to redo certain animations.  I'm pretty sure they did half of 1 and quit.   The only feasible way to create animations is to make an import export  tool.

Borde tried to make a COLLADA one but eventually gave up.  Really, your best bet is to figure out how to substitute Galian Beast's animations over Red's.  Either way good luck

I myself have done several 100% animation changes, ranging from making Tifa have archer animations, (She held her right hand out, pulled the other one back and shot the (invisible) arrow with variants of it to allow for a bow) making tifa have a sword, (this took forever to work right.) making Cloud have the exact animations of the other soldiers, making a unique swordsman animation set (For a character in one of my projects, he moves like a combination between Reno, Cid and Squall.) among others.

One thing I tried was making Nanaki use a sword, which involved it staying in a scabbard on his back, and he pulled it out for attacks, I spent 3 weeks solid trying that, but Nanaki has the most complicated animation structure out of everyone, and by comparison, it's a cakewalk to do the entirety of Cloud, which is the simplistic.

If you are genuinely going to try to make Nanaki stand out on 2 legs with his native animations, you will spend months or possibly years doing this, it would be best to make him more into Kimahri from Final Fantasy X, and his limits could be changed into more generic things.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-23 18:34:25
Any vids of the new animations you did?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-23 18:54:21
OK. I will look into it thank you. Hopefully I haven't done all of this for nothing :(

Either way it wont be for nothing. The model will still look good imported with the vanilla animations. Editing at least the idle animations so he's standing up shouldn't be too hard. The change from one animation to the next wont be completely perfect, since he'll still run on four legs, but it wont be too noticeable since many of the animations are that way. The only time this will really be an issue is when the mod to convert battles to 60 fps is completed. Your altered animation will require a bit more work so the animation transitions are smooth at that point.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 18:57:41
Either way it wont be for nothing. The model will still look good imported with the vanilla animations. Editing at least the idle animations so he's standing up shouldn't be too hard. The change from one animation to the next wont be completely perfect, since he'll still run on four legs, but it wont be too noticeable since many of the animations are that way. The only time this will really be an issue is when the mod to convert battles to 60 fps is completed. Your altered animation will require a bit more work so the animation transitions are smooth at that point.
vanilla? lol is that code for original?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-07-23 18:58:53
I don't have any videos of solely the new animations, I made videos of the projects as a whole, but many of the animation sets I did were for potential character replacements I might want to use in future.

Each was for a purpose, ie, I was working on a medieval FF7, so there weren't any guns or machinery, and Tifa's animations are by far the closest to it, but that was also the basis of a Legend of Dragoon project, she actually made a very nice Shana.

I never made any videos or screenshots of this, but I have a (very) early Dart I took pictures of.
http://th01.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/122/0/9/ff7_mod_cameo___dart_by_video_boy_mal-d3fg05c.png (http://th01.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/122/0/9/ff7_mod_cameo___dart_by_video_boy_mal-d3fg05c.png)
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/074/4/a/ff7_mini_mod_dart_feld__wip__by_video_boy_mal-d5y4lqc.png (http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/074/4/a/ff7_mini_mod_dart_feld__wip__by_video_boy_mal-d5y4lqc.png)

From this, I greatly revised Dart, I also made Rose, Lavitz, Shana, Herschel, Miranda, Albert, Kongol and Meru.
If you're wondering how I did each, Dart was straight up Cloud, I revised some of his animations, such as the item usage and attacks to be closer to his LoD ones.
Rose was a (heavily) modified Tifa to have a rapier, that was the sword Tifa I mentioned in the last message.
Shana and Miranda used the same animation, which was the archer tifa.
Lavitz and Albert is Cid, but in order to speed up Albert's battle animations, I was lazy and simply removed a few frames from each animation.
Kongol was Barret, which took less work than you might think, I simply exaggerated his short range attacks, idle animations and used them as a base for the transitional ones.
Meru was.... such.... a pain to make. I had to redo her entire animation to have a mix of Aeris and Yuffie with Aeris being the base.
Herschel was a greatly modified Tifa to have a slower paced movement with lower attacks as if he genuinely struggled to raise his fists.

For these, I didn't really touch the limit breaks visualy, but I changed them to basically be an extension of each character.

In terms of who was who, I was planning on doing entirely new events, but little by little, it was going to turn entirely into a LoD using FF7's engine, and I ended up stopping work after getting all of the major characters (the 8 playable ones, Lloyd and a number of bosses, I included the human and Dragoon forms for all applicable.)

I was working on that in secret basically and planned on springing it as a surprise, but I got caught up with work and college, but, it's been over a year since I even touched FF7, but I still pop in to Qhimm and the other FF7 communities to see if there were any new breakthroughs or if I get any new messages.

So I figured I'd give a word of advice to the potential animation artist, but for this, I really suggest either giving it another character's animations, or making this werewolf into a limit break, such as giving Nanaki Galiant Beast and simply giving Vincent one less.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 19:06:50
I myself have done several 100% animation changes, ranging from making Tifa have archer animations, (She held her right hand out, pulled the other one back and shot the (invisible) arrow with variants of it to allow for a bow) making tifa have a sword, (this took forever to work right.) making Cloud have the exact animations of the other soldiers, making a unique swordsman animation set (For a character in one of my projects, he moves like a combination between Reno, Cid and Squall.) among others.

One thing I tried was making Nanaki use a sword, which involved it staying in a scabbard on his back, and he pulled it out for attacks, I spent 3 weeks solid trying that, but Nanaki has the most complicated animation structure out of everyone, and by comparison, it's a cakewalk to do the entirety of Cloud, which is the simplistic.

If you are genuinely going to try to make Nanaki stand out on 2 legs with his native animations, you will spend months or possibly years doing this, it would be best to make him more into Kimahri from Final Fantasy X, and his limits could be changed into more generic things.

I'd love to see your animations. And would you want to help me with mine?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 19:12:57
Wow Kuroda. Awesome!! I would have loved to see that project. Really I wanted him to be a full playable character and now its looking pretty bleak. I guess I can do it as galiant beast and take galiant from vincent to red xiii. This is a very very sad day...:(
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-07-23 20:18:23
I'd have to get my windows pc hooked up, but I could take a look at some of your animations if you started any, and a troubling detail is that you cannot simply 'transfer' animations, even if you enter the precise bone rotation, height, etc for each individual part as another animation, it can and will give drastically different angles and positions.

Someone might have made a more reliable tool since my last proper visit, but I'm pretty sure we need to use Kimera.

I'm be more useful to talk to about the whole nitty gritty details over skype, or yahoo chat or something else, if you're interested, send me a PM with some way to do a live chat, even if its just facebook.

But in short, if you want him to work as a fully playable character, just change his skeleton to someone else, the closest one for our purposes would likely be Cid, we can either make him a spearman, or remove it, which gives a basic stance we'll want for a werewolf.
In which case, we'll want to take influence from Tifa, the whole animations can be untouched, except for the idle (just try to loosen up his shoulders and raise his arms like he's Tifa.) attack (make his arm extend like he's swiping his claws) the magic casting (Just do something like he's surging with power before throwing his hand out) and the victory animation, which can be modified to look like he's doing a sort of primal roar.

If you're interested, I wouldn't mind taking you on as a sort of protégé and show you some images or videos I did of my projects.

I'd dislike showing the whole forum, I like to keep some things relatively secret, although I forced myself into a corner and I'll have to show something from the LoD project.

While off topic, is the general consensus that I should release my LoD main cast, Uroboros, Hellena Guards, Hellena Sergeant, Fruegel, Phoenix, Greham, Freybrand, Emperor Doel, etc) as well as several NPCs, such as the merchants, Basil soldiers, etc.

I was working on that for a few weeks since I was depressed about not having Legend of Dragoon on the European PSN, but I ended up just getting a USA one for it.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 20:41:37
My spirits are officially relifted.  ;D
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 20:57:48
I sent you a pm kuroda  thank you for giving me hope again.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-07-23 21:30:08
No problem buddy.

I'll check again in the morning to see if there's any developments.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-23 21:43:09
While off topic, is the general consensus that I should release my LoD main cast, Uroboros, Hellena Guards, Hellena Sergeant, Fruegel, Phoenix, Greham, Freybrand, Emperor Doel, etc) as well as several NPCs, such as the merchants, Basil soldiers, etc.
You can release anything you'd like!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-23 22:46:35
Leonhart, If you do a google image search for Red XIII mod brings up your toothpaste ad. LOL.

https://www.google.com/search?q=red+xiii+mod&tbm=isch&ei=wTjQU6-LIceLyATUtoCQAw#imgdii=_ (https://www.google.com/search?q=red+xiii+mod&tbm=isch&ei=wTjQU6-LIceLyATUtoCQAw#imgdii=_)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-07-23 22:48:53
yep that's google! ;)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-30 15:13:16
I have him separated into parts and ready to start importing. I need a favor. Can someone please send or upload the original cid and red xiii files. This would help me a ton if somebody could upload a zip file for cid and a zip for red. It has to be the original. Thanks. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/30/ajytu6e9.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-30 16:42:56
Sorry, we can't distribute original game files here. 

I can tell you with your import though, you don't need separate pieces for the arms and legs.  Once you have one side in Kimera, all you have to do is mirror the piece and save it as the piece on the other side.  Saves a lot of time.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-30 16:48:57
My problem is that I have to overwrite red xiii skeleton with Cids
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-30 16:53:54
That's probably a lot more work than just opening them in kimera and swapping parts.  To do that you'll need to do A LOT of searching of these forums and maybe Kuroda can help.

The easiest way would be to take Cid's **aa **ab and **da file and rename them to redxIII's and see what happens in game.  If it doesn't crash you're in luck and it'll be easy from there.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-30 16:59:00
OK. Thanks. Yeah Kuroda has been helping me a ton and has pretty much told me that I need to overwrite Red XIII with CID and then import Red Werewolf's parts to the new Red XIII. Hopefully a full on noob can handle this lol. Hopefully I can get him into the game within the year lol.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-07-30 17:28:24
Overwriting the skeleton is easy, just save Cid's model as Red XIII in Kimera. It'll rename everything else for you. The hard part will be altering the game so it uses the correct attacks and stuff like that. Otherwise the game will likely crash if it's looking for the original skeleton and animations.

Importing and mirroring pieces definitely helps save time. If parts for the arms and legs are the same than this certainly saves time. If you have changes like if the chains around his wrists are different though than you'll want to import those individual pieces.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Iceboundphoenix on 2014-07-30 17:40:43
I am confused wouldn't saving Cid's model over red xii cause some kind of in game error later on? How would Cid be affected by a change like that? When the game goes looking for the files are the names going to be different or the same?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-07-30 19:28:10
@cmh - The game automatically knows what animations and whatnot to use based on weapon data, but what you need to do for it to work and not have missing body parts is to create a brand new battle.lgp.

In terms of limit breaks, we can use tools to just manually alter all of Nanaki's to be Cid's (which will allow it to not simply be mimicked) or just tell Nanaki to use Cid's limits directly.

Doing the create new lgp method, we can make every single person use Cloud's battle skeleton (and limit breaks) without a single ingame issue, I did extensive testing with this along as redirecting what battle data is loaded for each character.

As part of my test, I made Cloud use Barret's battle skeletons (sbaa, scaa, sdaa and seaa) which enabled me to give Cloud 4 different weapons for a limited character project I did before.

(Only playable characters were Cloud and Tifa, you had the occasional guest, such as Nanaki, Barret and Cait Sith.)

Cloud has Swords (Normal skeleton) Spears (Cid) Guns (Vincent) and Katanas. (Sephiroth)
Tifa on the other hand had tonfas (Normal skeleton) Staves (Aeris) and throwing knives. (Yuffie)

I recalibrated the whole game to allow for only 2 playable characters with fixed materia that went up like traditional rpgs, each weapon had different qualities, such as giving a bigger physical or magic boost, being long ranged, having high accuracy, etc.

Flying enemies were fixed to have almost impossible evasion, so you'd need either the gun or throwing knife to hit it. (or magic.)
While Tifa has more physical ones. (Tonfa) and the magical ones. (staves) and the katana was defence ignoring, and was a mandatory weapon to take down tank enemies, or a spell of the opposing element.

That project was actually a fun one to work on.

And it was easy to have nobody else join the team, I simply used meteor to disable party changes (SO MANY OF THEM) and not enable new additions to the roster, while they could still join for certain bosses.

An example is that in the first mission, Cloud was going solo, then when Barret normally joined, it was Tifa instead and they fought a new boss.

Then for the main boss, Barret shows up and explains that you need a gun or other such weapon to take down enemies like that and joined because we likely wouldn't have won otherwise.

Other examples include when we're fighting the experiment in the HQ, Nanaki will join for the battle.

...Enough about that though, the main point is changing battle skeletons and appropriate data is easy to do and takes a few minutes.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Iceboundphoenix on 2014-07-30 19:46:17
Thank you for the passionate response I do appreciate the reply and enlightening me on the subject.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-30 20:10:13
So Kuroda, I will create a new folder and put every file from the battle.lgp in it. Then I can rename rzaa to rwaa and will then have a red xiii model that uses Cid's skeleton and weapons? After that I can import the parts. Finally how do I change him from using spears to hands/mouth?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-07-30 20:20:43
Just use Kimera 0.95 onwards, it'll automatically rename and sort the rzaa to rwaa, if you rename them yourself, it can cause some issues that need to be sorted out with a hex editor.

But the whole going from spear to hands/mouth is also in depth animation changes, for the moment, keep a copy where he works with the spear, then simply resize each file from rwck to rwcz to be 1/1/1 within kimera so it's invisible to the naked eye. (DO NOT delete them.)

Then you'll need to start changing animations, I suggest keeping a close eye on a combination of Tifa and Cid to compare and try to mimic the fists so he resembles a brawler.

That in itself will save you alot of time, but your overall goal is to have something similar to the Skyrim werewolf, and several of his animations won't work with the battle animation style, so you'll have to do hybrids and mix and picks for them.

Bare in mind you can spend an entire night just doing 2 or 3 frames this way, and Cid has a grand total of 34 animations, quite a few of his animations has over 20 frames, the longest having 34 frames.

You will spend the next few months to years just doing the animations to be remotely close to your goal.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-30 20:27:09
so...
1. open Kimera
2. open rzaa
3. Save as
4. rwaa
Then all files will be saved automatically?

Sorry for seeming like a stupid redundant question. I am just trying to wrap my mind around the whole thing.

PS. If this step by step is correct, should I "save as" in another new folder to isolate him or "save as" in the battle.lgp folder?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-07-30 20:27:46
Or write an animation exporter/importer which will make everyone love you.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-30 20:30:01
By importer exporter do you mean being able to animate in Maya and Export to Kimera?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-07-30 20:36:14
@Obesebear - I actually tried doing an animation importer/exporter, mainly for my own use, but it was nowhere near functional and the overall animation system is highly temperamental, I could work more on it, but it seems unfeasible with my current abilities to finish.

Do you really think that someone who turned Tifa into an archer, a rapier master and an old man wouldn't have possibly considered creating a vastly easier alternative to the normal method?

The most I could get it to do was copy a single frame of animation and paste it over another animation frame, which is only useful if we have 1 precise animation we want to use for something else. (Such as the manipulate animation from Cloud for the magic casting animation, and using this, I redid that in a matter of 1-2 minutes when it previously took 2 weeks to change it.)

But, the darn thing is prone to completely corrupting the animation and skeleton information, it's a headache to work on. -.-

@Wolfman - Yes, do that. And don't forget to make a new battle.lgp with Cid's data over Nanaki's so Red Werewolf works ingame.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-30 20:56:36
One last thought. Would using galian beast sjaa be just as easy as using Cid? If so it seems that would be a much easier transition. (I know you told me that before but I'm just now starting to thoroughly understand). Keeping in mind that after the battle mod I will need to do field mod and limit breaks. Or is Galian Beast too limited?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-07-30 20:59:58
Galiant Beast will require extensive work to be a fully playable character, although it is possible, but right now my head is killing me and I don't feel like explaining it.

Out of interest, how many of the old crew are still around?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-07-30 21:18:09
No worries Kuroda, I think you've done enough for today. Lol. I will just stick with Cid and get some progress. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-01 05:44:42
Does pcreator have a max polygon allowance? It seems that when I do the head, which is the bulk of my polys at 20k, it won't allow me to open textures. All other parts are fine. Or is something else wrong with the head that I am not seeing.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-08-01 13:42:24
Opening bitmap should be the very last thing you do. As soon as you open it, immediately hit save and you'll be OK.  Not sure why the bitmap causes crashes sometimes.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-01 15:37:13
Does pcreator have a max polygon allowance? It seems that when I do the head, which is the bulk of my polys at 20k, it won't allow me to open textures. All other parts are fine. Or is something else wrong with the head that I am not seeing.

Have you checked the .3ds file for the head? Is the uv mapping intact? It's odd for a piece that large to have issues with corrupt uv mapping, but I suppose anything is possible. If it continues send me the original piece you cut (.obj I assume) and the texture and I can take a look.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-01 16:23:35
I have made a fully playable gallean beast , but its for PSX, i dunno if the file format are similar on PC version but its not hard to do,   the gallean beast ( and all vincent limit break) does not fit with a standar playable character's animations, they are like empty char with only two  limits break, so you need to create the missing ones(its not hard when u know what mean each values), if the format is similar to the LZS from psx i could take a look.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-01 17:01:10
That's awesome Jeet. I'd love to use a fully playabe Galliant Beast to overwrite with my files. Who did you replace in the game for that to work. I'm going to upload the head tonight with the texture of just the head.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-01 17:52:09
I didnt replaced anyone, i keep the gallean beast as a limit break, and changed the animation script of all vincent's limit so they are not AI controlled, then i changed the animations script of each model ( chaos, gigas, gallean and hellmask) so they can perform moves like " double cut"  " death blow" even the standar attack as to be modded, to summarize, there is 2 step for this.

But if i understand well, in your case you need to replace red13 model with gallean beast,  then u need to put your werewolf on the gallean's skeleton model, then editing it with hex editor to change his animation script so they fit with a playable character, the problem is Im not sure if the values are the same for PC and PSX.

Example of an animation script for playable character: when u open it with hex editor

E8 B6 00 AA 01 02 03 EC E5 EE

E8 mean the character load an effect (magic , summon etc), B6 mean the camera is paused, 00 mean to wait, AA unpause camera, 01 play the first animation of the character, 02 second  animation etc, EC will launch the magic itself, E5 reset your character position, EE is the end of the animation script, knowning all these values ( and more) you can customize each animations of a character, even bosses and monsters( but since they are not playable there is more works to do on them)

Once again, all these infos are for the PSX versions, i will check if the PC version are similar,but never modded on pc and dunno where the battle models and vincent limits models are located.

Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-08-01 17:57:09
The battle.lgp, Galian Beast is SJAA.   The script you're referring to in the psx is going to be file SJAB. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-01 18:23:27
Ok thx, i found the sjab , its seem they are exactly the same as on the psx , i could edit them so gallean beast would be playable, but i remember that on  PSX version, once i edited a model, i couldnt open the file with a model viewer anymore ( the character still  works ingame but cant be viewed  with a tool), if the same problem occurs then the animations editing must be done after the re-skin.

EDIT: on playstation, when i enlarge the file the offsets for the skeleton/animations have to be modified too, how does it works on PC  If i make the file bigger? since the animations script are not in the same file as the skeleton and animations.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-08-01 18:58:55
AFAIK changing the filesize won't have any adverse effects
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-01 19:16:59
Anyway i found a way to not altering the size, instead of creating new animations script for each moves, i just modify the animation offset .

I used Berserker Dance's animations for every physical attack , and Beast flare's animations for magic, enemy skill and summon  moves. Editing vincent's monsters is easiest that an enemy/boss, since their offset are similar to the playable chars.

Since im too lazy to re install my ff7 re release i just copyed paste the animations script of the PC "sjab" that i modified, into the PSX ( with that way i can be sure that the value are the same) and its works , i have a gallean beast playable instead of Red13. ( dunno how to insert it back on PC but it mustbe donable with LGP tool that i used for extract them)

For now i just edited the "attack , enemy skill, and summon" animations for testing, if interested for a fully playable i will finish it and upload it( i suppose its legal since "sjab" is not the 3D model but only the animations data?). Note that his animations will be limited for limit break, vincent's monster donthave many animations unlike true playable characters.So it can be repetitive.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-01 19:38:10
Jeet I would absolutely love it if you would upload him. This would be very helpful in my project!!!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-01 20:29:12
I upload the fast version of it, i just modified the attack , magic , enemy skill and summon casting, all other skills wont work, this is just for testing if its work on PC, so u can test your new skin on it,  ill upload the full version tomorow, so this is the animation data of the playable gallean beast from the PC version make me know if it works, its NOT the 3d model, so need to replace sjaa too ( and maybe other files i dunno how it works on PC)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/77d673xe2d4v5np/sjab.rar

Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-01 20:45:09
This is very helpful Jeet, I just finished testing this, and I can confirm it works.

Although, I am saddened by the fact that Wolfman does not need to do any animation editing, I was quite looking forward to that.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-01 20:53:44
Ouch Kuroda. LoL. I am hurt. I'm a noob and this is starting to get a little overwhelming. This was simply too big of a task to take on for my first 3D project ever.
But theres nothing like picking on the fng to get some fire lit.  :evil:
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-01 21:11:24
Kuroda>Thx, so the file are really similar thats a good news.

Sorry for my english but I didnt understand what u mean by " i was looking forward to that",  you wanted to create some animations for the model? In that case its still possible that the character have two differents models  and morph into them using the same animation script that vincent's limits break, to sumarize he can transform his character into another , with different color/weapon/skeleton for example, but using this method will erase one of vincent's limits break. Unlike vincent, the modded character can use one morphing limit break, and one damaging ( vincents is forced to have only one limit per lvl)

This method is not limited to playable characters, large size monster can be used on vincents limits break, combined with cait sith animation script it will erase the two other players(and transfer their HP) so the big monster have enough space to be summoned.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-01 22:26:49
Kuroda>Sorry for my english but I didnt understand what u mean by " i was looking forward to that", 

He meant that he wanted to see my squirm and cuss while I tried to figure out how to do the animations on my own.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-02 13:25:57
Ok i see, he wanted you to improve alone lol, I understand .

Anyway here is the full playable gallean beast

http://www.mediafire.com/download/17ugupkb2uxvpba/beast.rar

There is two method to do this, the first one is to only modify the offset of each animation script, (i used that one for the test model incomplete because thats fast) but for the full version i used a different method, since galleant physical attack have a very long animation script ( he hit many times and very fast) , I was forced to " enlarge" the data, for the 2Xcut and 4Xcut, and modify the offset too.

To summarize unlike the other file, this one is very altered, so im not sure it will works on PC, if someone can try and confirm i'll appreciate. I tested the same values on PSX and its worked perfectly, so its probably gonna works.

Note: all his limits break have beast flare's animation, so you need to modify red13 limits break with a limits break editor and give him " projectile"  limits break , ( beast flare, limewire, nightmare will works , if you use something like cosmo memory or omnislash it will not work correctly)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-02 15:08:22
Ok i see, he wanted you to improve alone lol, I understand .

Anyway here is the full playable gallean beast

http://www.mediafire.com/download/17ugupkb2uxvpba/beast.rar

There is two method to do this, the first one is to only modify the offset of each animation script, (i used that one for the test model incomplete because thats fast) but for the full version i used a different method, since galleant physical attack have a very long animation script ( he hit many times and very fast) , I was forced to " enlarge" the data, for the 2Xcut and 4Xcut, and modify the offset too.

To summarize unlike the other file, this one is very altered, so im not sure it will works on PC, if someone can try and confirm i'll appreciate. I tested the same values on PSX and its worked perfectly, so its probably gonna works.

Note: all his limits break have beast flare's animation, so you need to modify red13 limits break with a limits break editor and give him " projectile"  limits break , ( beast flare, limewire, nightmare will works , if you use something like cosmo memory or omnislash it will not work correctly)

This is phenomenal just absolutely amazing. I will try to see if he goes into pc version sometime tonight. In the mean time if Kuroda wants to test him in game that'd be awesome!!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-02 16:04:34
This is awesome. I was just looking at galliant and his fingers are separate parts!!! And I will get the bottom jaw back. I am so excited. Thank you again jeet!!!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-02 17:29:11
This is awesome. I was just looking at galliant and his fingers are separate parts!!! And I will get the bottom jaw back. I am so excited. Thank you again jeet!!!

The Galian Beast is a great idea, and the skeleton is perfect for this. I have no idea about fixing attacks and stuff like that though so I cant help much outside of the importing side of the project. Have you looked at the model in kimera yet? I think for the most part most of your parts are likely fine, core model pieces are generally very similar, but the neck, hands, and feet maybe different. Maybe the legs too. Particularly the fingers, importing them as separate pieces like the Galian Beast will get you a lot more options with animations.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-02 18:02:29
I looked at the skeleton and it seems almost perfect. Couple of things I have to look at.
1. Some of his attacks involve his horns. Guess he could just have a head butt attack lol.

2. I may have to shorten the shins.

3. My tail is much shorter I don't think that'll matter though. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-02 18:07:29
I looked at the skeleton and it seems almost perfect. Couple of things I have to look at.
1. Some of his attacks involve his horns. Guess he could just have a head butt attack lol.

2. I may have to shorten the shins.

3. My tail is much shorter I don't think that'll matter though.

True, and perfectly fine. Changing the length of bones, even to 0 isn't a problem. His tail certainly doesn't have to be the same length, or even as many pieces, but you definitely want the tail in at least three pieces though so it doesn't look stiff. Headbutt attacks will look fine, hell his regular physical attack is one isn't it? I actually think importing onto this model will be easier than Red XIII's, except for maybe the hands and jaw. Once those parts are lined up and look good though should be smooth sailing, just zoom in and take your time. Let me know if you need help with any problem pieces and I can take a look, importing the model maybe the easy part of this mod lol.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-02 18:36:23
No problem, i just hope it will works,but if its not the case there is still a second way to edit the beast, so its not a big deal.

About the horn dont worry the move ur talking about is not a head butt , its his magic casting , so even without horn its more like a "howling" (not sure about the english word).
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-02 22:34:00
Ok so I am pretty slow at the importing side but I'm getting there lol. I am having a minor texturing issue though. Is it to do each part as it's own texture so long as I am assigning them correctly in pcreator?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-02 23:02:11
Ok so I am pretty slow at the importing side but I'm getting there lol. I am having a minor texturing issue though. Is it to do each part as it's own texture so long as I am assigning them correctly in pcreator?

I'm confused on what you're asking. You mean make a single texture for each piece? Battle models only have 10 texture slots, but for the most part just 1 should do it for a single model, giving you the rest for weapons. I'd try each one first with the main single texture, and if they're having uv issues like the first piece you had than fix it so it uses a single smaller texture.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-02 23:19:57
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/03/7a6e6abe.jpg)

So far. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-03 10:51:41
Coming along nicely.

Don't forget that you can cut your importing time in half by simply mirroring the arms and legs once they're fully resized and rotated to fit on both sides.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-03 12:55:45
Yes I did a mirror on accident. It made it really easy. I wish you could duplicate and mirror.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 14:04:01
Jeet. I have a quick question for you. When I go to convert Red Werewolf to a field model how is that going to work?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-04 14:12:51
There is a Red XIII skelton on two legs but you need to do all animations for him yourself. If you not care so much about a animated tail, I recommended you to use Barret's skeleton.

The pieces needs to be scaled down from 100 to 3 or 2.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: chasedark on 2014-08-04 14:58:45
This has been coming along nicely, I know it doesn't sound like much from someone who's not really a modder/modeler, but I'm impressed.  Can't wait to see it in action.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 15:35:55
There is a Red XIII skelton on two legs but you need to do all animations for him yourself. If you not care so much about a animated tail, I recommended you to use Barret's skeleton.

The pieces needs to be scaled down from 100 to 3 or 2.

The two legged version is a good place to start, but the tap dancing needs to be fixed lol. I think sticking with his more original skeletons maybe better. Either way you're likely to have to alter animation files, and at least this way you're not doing anything that will effect other models. I think if you alter his idle animation (sitting) so he's standing up that should mostly do it. Maybe his walking and running animations if you're feeling adventures, so he stays on two feet. This way though the model will still function like normal, like in Cosmo Canyon when he jumps up the cliff side to his father. That probably wont be very easy to alter for a different character skeleton. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 15:43:11
Why don't we just simply make him use a normal human's skeleton on the field?

In terms of animations, we can easily make Cloud's skeleton fit, and in terms of the story, he could be quite civilized, and when he needs to, or when he sees an enemy, he psyches himself into a frenzy and makes use of his wolfman strength?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 15:48:51
Why don't we just simply make him use a normal human's skeleton on the field?

In terms of animations, we can easily make Cloud's skeleton fit, and in terms of the story, he could be quite civilized, and when he needs to, or when he sees an enemy, he psyches himself into a frenzy and makes use of his wolfman strength?

It's true this would be much easier since it's a standard skeleton with good animations, but you wouldn't be able to alter any of them. Not unless you also alter the flevel, which I don't recommend. That would make it more difficult to use with other mods like the Reunion, nightmare mod, just about anything gameplay altering.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 16:00:24
I'm not saying make him use the normal animations, GIVE him the normal animations.

To make someone like Cait Sith or Nanaki into a normal human, all we need to do is change all of the corresponding .a files for them, we can find out what their animations are by opening the flevel with a text editor, such as loveless, and doing a search for {Red XIII} which we then make a note of every level he appears in, then we use an event editing tool, such as meteor to see what animations are assigned to him.

We keep these in a notepad or word document, then we copy and paste them all into a separate folder and then we test them one by one to see what each does, and then we can start to replace them with appropriate animations that the skeleton we want to use has.

By doing this, we can make either Cait Sith or Nanaki be 100% human in the field without editing any events, and if we keep a backup of the animations, then nobody will EVER have to sit down and do it again, and we can then turn them human in a matter of seconds without any negative consequences.

The only mildly tricky part is getting his field skeleton set up, but all we need to do is take another skeleton, for simplicity sake I'll use Cloud.

Take aaaa.hrc and open it with a hex editor, and under every single part, change it from axxx to nxxx, and just copy and paste all of his normal field files to be that, and afterwards, simply rename naaa.hrc to Nanaki's .hrc, which is adda.hrc.

...And for when he's a soldier, we can just make him use the normal soldier's appearance and animations, unless you want to keep his tail sticking out.

This is a simple process, and not to mention, I already did this for Cait Sith and Nanaki to be 100% human with appropriate animations.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-04 16:43:20
Wolfman>

I think you have 2 solutions, the easy way and the difficult way:

1/Let him untouched, a werewolf is supposed to be a transformation so he can still be an animal on field and transform only for battle.( and ur model is still close than the original red13 colors so i think it look realistic enough if u dont modify him)

2/For battle model galiant beast was the best choice to fit with a werewolf, for field model i think its Diamond weapon, if i remember well thats the only character ( in field) who have monster's like animations but still walking on 2 feets like an human but like Kuroda said, if you change the skeleton of a character in field, you need to modify his animations in ALL events where he will appear ( thats a lot of works),otherwise ur char will be very glitchy. ( for example , you can swap cloud field model with cid, it will works easy, because they have the same skeleton, but red13 have unique skeleton , like cait sith, so that wont be an easy works)

To summarize, if u want a perfect mod you need to replace a lot of files just for a field model, if you say that you prefer modding graphics, and hex editing is too much for you then I suggest you to let red 13 field model untouched ( i personnaly put more interest in battle model)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 16:45:58
I'm not saying make him use the normal animations, GIVE him the normal animations.

To make someone like Cait Sith or Nanaki into a normal human, all we need to do is change all of the corresponding .a files for them, we can find out what their animations are by opening the flevel with a text editor, such as loveless, and doing a search for {Red XIII} which we then make a note of every level he appears in, then we use an event editing tool, such as meteor to see what animations are assigned to him.

We keep these in a notepad or word document, then we copy and paste them all into a separate folder and then we test them one by one to see what each does, and then we can start to replace them with appropriate animations that the skeleton we want to use has.

By doing this, we can make either Cait Sith or Nanaki be 100% human in the field without editing any events, and if we keep a backup of the animations, then nobody will EVER have to sit down and do it again, and we can then turn them human in a matter of seconds without any negative consequences.

The only mildly tricky part is getting his field skeleton set up, but all we need to do is take another skeleton, for simplicity sake I'll use Cloud.

Take aaaa.hrc and open it with a hex editor, and under every single part, change it from axxx to nxxx, and just copy and paste all of his normal field files to be that, and afterwards, simply rename naaa.hrc to Nanaki's .hrc, which is adda.hrc.

...And for when he's a soldier, we can just make him use the normal soldier's appearance and animations, unless you want to keep his tail sticking out.

This is a simple process, and not to mention, I already did this for Cait Sith and Nanaki to be 100% human with appropriate animations.

That does sound simpler than altering animations. Does this make them use exactly the same animation files though as Cloud, or can they be renamed so there's no overlap? I suggest this so any animations that do need altering, or even just personalizing, wont effect Cloud or the npc's. I think that's what you said, just wanted to confirm. 

Wolfman>

I think you have 2 solutions, the easy way and the difficult way:

1/Let him untouched, a werewolf is supposed to be a transformation so he can still be an animal on field and transform only for battle.( and ur model is still close than the original red13 colors so i think it look realistic enough if u dont modify him)

2/For battle model galiant beast was the best choice to fit with a werewolf, for field model i think its Diamond weapon, if i remember well thats the only character ( in field) who have monster's like animations but still walking on 2 feets like an human but like Kuroda said, if you change the skeleton of a character in field, you need to modify his animations in ALL events where he will appear ( thats a lot of works),otherwise ur char will be very glitchy. ( for example , you can swap cloud field model with cid, it will works easy, because they have the same skeleton, but red13 have unique skeleton , like cait sith, so that wont be an easy works)

To summarize, if u want a perfect mod you need to replace a lot of files just for a field model, if you say that you prefer modding graphics, and hex editing is too much for you then I suggest you to let red 13 field model untouched ( i personnaly put more interest in battle model)

That's not a bad idea, but than the models wont match. You can have anything from Kela, Kaldarasha, or my Red XIII field model. Either way nothing really resembles the battle model. I think this would only really work if a four legged version of the werewolf was made. Kuroda's idea seems plausible, and Cloud's idle and running animations can be altered so look more werewolfish. Altering the hrc is annoying, but easy. Just need to make sure you also do the rsd files so they match the new p file name. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-04 16:59:54
A character field have only 3 animations if i remember> standing, walking, running, these animations can be modified without problems

The problem is the event animation, for example, when barret shoot with his arm in field, that kind of animation is not stored in the character himself but in the " event file" ( NPC are stored here too), it mean if you dont modify all events in the game , red 13 will be able to stand, walk and run, but each time he pop from cloud and talk, it will be glitchy, because the animations in the event file wont have the same " skeleton" that his animation in his "character file", to summarize , if you modify the skeleton of an original character  ALL events files have to be modified one by one so they fit with the new one.

I wanted to do this with my Sephiroth mod, but i gave up, and instead i give him same skeleton than Cloud ( by deleting his long hair on the back), so instead of modify tons of files, i modified only one.


EDIT: cmh175>  why would the diamond weapon not match ? the only issue will be the size and it can be modified, then he put the wolf parts one by one on the skeleton.But i actually have no data about this character because i dunno where he is located, i know its stored in a big worldmap file and finding it can be an hard work, maybe its not the case in PC version. So if there is already custom field model for red13, its true it could be easier to simply use them.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-04 17:02:52
Quote
To make someone like Cait Sith or Nanaki into a normal human, all we need to do is change all of the corresponding .a files for them, we can find out what their animations are by opening the flevel with a text editor, such as loveless, and doing a search for {Red XIII} which we then make a note of every level he appears in, then we use an event editing tool, such as meteor to see what animations are assigned to him.

We keep these in a notepad or word document, then we copy and paste them all into a separate folder and then we test them one by one to see what each does, and then we can start to replace them with appropriate animations that the skeleton we want to use has.

You could use Makou Reactor for all of this, even to play the animation. But it will be a lot easier to use the Char.lgp DB function in Kimera. The tool will list all animations for Red XIII.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 17:05:18
The method I described would allow us to turn either Nanaki or Caith Sith into Cloud's skeleton, although we can do the same for anyone else, such as Tifa, Cid, Barret, Sephiroth, etc.

The way it's done means that there is absolutely no overlap, as we physically change the animations to someone else's, for instance, the game's levels would load the animations aeae.a, aeaf.a and aeba.a for the idle, walk and run animations respectively for Nanaki, but as we changed them directly in the char.lgp to be aafe.a, aaff.a and aaga.a respectively, for every single scene in which the human Nanaki needs to stand, walk or run, he will automatically do it using the respective animations that Cloud would normally use.

We could get him set up to use Barret's animations, but be warned, it is a pain to get his legs properly working.

Doing this method, we can physically change any and all field characters to be someone else (in the main party) except for Cloud and Aeris, because they share 80% of their field animations with NPCs.

Cloud having skeleton A has around 70% of NPCs use his normal animations as well as his misc ones, while Aeris is the same, except a vast smaller number uses her animations, but important characters, such as Hojo and Sephiroth share Skeleton B.

From this, we can interchange Barret, Tifa, Nanaki, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Cid and Vincent between one another by simply changing their field animations.

I have a complete list of what every single field animation does and which skeleton it belongs to, so we can likely implement future mods far more easily in future.

The only annoying part is looking at both lists (Cloud and Nanaki) to see which animations match, then we copy and rename said animation to be for Nanaki, before putting it back into the char.lgp.

I did extensive testing with both Nanaki and Cait Sith as human, and there is absolutely no errors doing it this method.

@Kaldarasha, I never really touched Makou Reactor, but can you use it to physically rename the actual animation files and replace them?

I assumed that could only change them within each scene in the flevel.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-04 17:14:08
I'm not sure what you mean with rename but you can spot the animations very easily. But as I said it's faster to use Kimera for it.
(http://s14.directupload.net/images/140804/cv2ma5qs.jpg)

Quote
I have a complete list of what every single field animation does and which skeleton it belongs to, so we can likely implement future mods far more easily in future.

I had once the same idea, but it was to much for me to do it alone, also I wasn't ever sure how to describe the animation correctly.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 17:25:35
A character field have only 3 animations if i remember> standing, walking, running, these animations can be modified without problems

The problem is the event animation, for example, when barret shoot with his arm in field, that kind of animation is not stored in the character himself but in the " event file" ( NPC are stored here too), it mean if you dont modify all events in the game , red 13 will be able to stand, walk and run, but each time he pop from cloud and talk, it will be glitchy, because the animations in the event file wont have the same " skeleton" that his animation in his "character file", to summarize , if you modify the skeleton of an original character  ALL events files have to be modified one by one so they fit with the new one.

I wanted to do this with my Sephiroth mod, but i gave up, and instead i give him same skeleton than Cloud ( by deleting his long hair on the back), so instead of modify tons of files, i modified only one.


EDIT: cmh175>  why would the diamond weapon not match ? the only issue will be the size and it can be modified, then he put the wolf parts one by one on the skeleton.But i actually have no data about this character because i dunno where he is located, i know its stored in a big worldmap file and finding it can be an hard work, maybe its not the case in PC version. So if there is already custom field model for red13, its true it could be easier to simply use them.

No I meant about the part of leaving the field model and just doing the battle model. The werewolf transformation for battle sounds cool but the models themselves wont resemble each other much. Diamond weapon's skeleton wouldn't be hard to work with either, but I think the animations would require more work. It has a very stiff walk.

Turning Red XIII into Cloud is sounding pretty good. Just sounds more time consuming than actually being difficult, which is good. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 18:02:24
I think I agree with the idea of using Cloud's model. May have some issues with the leg structure but I think it will be the best way to go. So will doing it this method make it to where we wont have to adjust event animations??
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 18:05:24
...How did I not know about kimera 0.97a?

This would have saved me so much time when I was doing field animations ages ago.

Anyway...

@cmh175 - All we need to do is just use the Nanaki with Cloud skeleton I did, which is adda.hrc, but instead of loading the normal field model parts, loads new ones that won't overlap with any other model at nxxx, so all we need to do is just put Red Werewolf over Cloud's field skeleton and we're set.

@Wolfman - In terms of animations, I think Cloud or Barret will be our best bet, since they share enough animation types to work, but we can probably get him to work fully using Cloud's skeleton, and if not, I'll make the adjustments myself.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 18:11:07
How about I post him as the battle model and we'll see who can convert him to the field in the best way. I will send the winner 1 milllllllion dollars. LoL

(http://dailyhaymaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/drevil.png)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 18:12:38
Just kidding. I am going to get him completely battle ready and uploaded here and then begin replacing the field model.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 18:15:15
Just kidding. I am going to get him completely battle ready and uploaded here and then begin replacing the field model.

The field model itself wont be hard at all. Just putting everything else together with the animations will be the tricky part.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-04 18:15:48
Cloud has the most animations. However I would still use Barret's skeleton. Reason one: Barret is a bulky character. Reason two: Cloud has no animation for Aerith death scene. Vincent could be also interesting because his skeleton would allow extra hair animation.

For the weapon skeleton. It would be the perfect skeleton if he wants to do all of the other animations but it has all bones he would need.
It is stored in the world_us.lgp for PC.

(http://s1.directupload.net/images/140804/auppeefu.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 19:17:07
Just because Cloud has no animation intended for Aeris' death scene, doesn't mean we can't use a similar one.

I myself stated before I already have Nanaki with 100% human animations, I only have it with Cloud's skeleton, but we can use Barret, all we need to do is replace Nanaki's animations with Barrets, which would take under an hour with the animation list, and even if we didn't have it, it would take around 2-3 hours at most to take notes using the new kimera and then swap them.

Would anyone be interested in me making a tutorial on this?

As for using the diamond skeleton, we would have to make so many different animations for him that it would take far too long.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 19:22:39
I would LOVE a tutorial on how you converted nanaki to a human
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 19:24:36
What skeleton do you want Red Werewolf to use? Cloud or Barret?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 19:25:39
Cloud is my opinion on the best transition. Does anyone feel Barrett would be better. If so why?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 19:33:13
Barret is naturally 'slouched' and he often bends his knees and has much broader and overall wider animations, his shock/angry animation has him shaking his arms in anger like he's about to knock someone's lights out.

Cloud is upright and has a 'stiff' animation set by comparison, which would go better with Nanaki's personality and could be used to create a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde situation where he battles with his inner demons, and if you do involve him in any story changes, his grandfather could be trying to help him control his urges, which could have been intensified after his father was murdered by the Gi tribe. (believing his father was murdered could easily allow him to have more hatred, as opposed to shame in believing that his father simply fled.) and seeing his father in 'peace' could be used to teach a new limit break or something.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 19:37:05
Looking through the animations I see a lot of potential with Barret. It's a nice big skeleton with animations perfectly tailored to it. Cloud's much leaner, and his animations show that. It also seems that Barret's skeleton is able to open Clouds animations too though, so there's plenty to work with (though they may need to be cleaned up in kimera) Skeleton wise in general it makes very little difference.

Cloud maybe easier though, and looking at Barrets walking and running animations it could either look awesome or horrible lol. It seems the main difference between the two are their feet, Barret's go straight down while Clouds bend and stick out ahead of him. Fixing this for either skeleton would be very simple, so there's a lot to work with here. So maybe use Clouds skeleton and any particularly animations from Barret that work best.

With all that in mind this seems pretty figured out now. I may have missed some of the talk for the battle model. Any ideas for Red XIII's Limit Breaks and other attacks and being able to use magic?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 20:00:33
Lets go with Barrett then and we can adjust the leg movements as we go?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 20:09:51
Lets go with Cloud then and we can adjust the animations as we go.

Sorry I changed my mind Kuroda.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 20:17:19
Lets go with Cloud then and we can adjust the animations as we go.

Sorry I changed my mind Kuroda.

lol after angling the feet 90 degrees for any of Barret's animation files that are needed it wont really matter. Doing so only takes a minute too.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 20:19:08
Lol ok. Kuroda go ahead with Barett. Whatever you have started on just keep going and ignore my indecisiveness. LoL
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 21:06:34
I have the tutorial finished here.

---

-Final Fantasy 7 Tutorials By Kuroda Masahiro-
How to make Nanaki a human.


1 - First we need to begin by changing the battle skeleton, for all intents and purposes, we’ll be using Barret’s skeletons.

2 - Barret’s battle skeletons are sbaa, scaa, sdaa and seaa, each one is used for different battle animations for his weapons, the standard one is sbaa, which has the initial weapon.

3 – Use Kimera 0.95 onwards and save sbaa as rwaa which will overwrite Nanaki’s battle model.

4 – In order for this to take effect, we need to create a new battle.lgp instead of simply inserting the model, this will prevent issues, such as crashing and missing body parts.

5 – In order to ensure the battle animations work correctly, we need to change his limit breaks and weapon information, but that can come afterwards.

6 – The real meat of the change is the field side, field models and animations are stored separately to allow for different models to make use of them, and in terms of these animations, from the playable characters, there are 9 skeletons with their own animations.

7 – For simplicity we shall refer to them as follows:
Cloud is Skeleton A
Aeris is Skeleton B
Barret is Skeleton C
Tifa is Skeleton D
Nanaki is Skeleton E
Yuffie is Skeleton F
Cait Sith is Skeleton G
Vincent is Skeleton H
And Cid is Skeleton I.

8 – In terms of the NPCs, the vast majority use Skeleton A and B, so it is not recommended to change the playable characters on the field for who is Cloud or Aeris because of this, but this means we can make any of the 7 barring the latter with any of the 9 skeletons.

9 – In order to do this, we need to identify what the animations are, for the sake of this tutorial, we shall replace Nanaki with Skeleton C.

10 – In Kimera 0.97a, open adda.hrc and click on ‘Show har.lgp DB’ which will open up the list of what models use which animations, from there, we need to find adda.hrc (Nanaki) and make a list of every animation that he can use.

11 – A basic list example is this:
aeae.a -
aeaf.a -
aeba.a -
ajgc.a -
aqae.a -
aqaf.a -
dcia.a -
egce.a -
ecbe.a -
egcf.a -
ajgd.a –

12 – Then we need to load each of these animations using Kimera and list what does what, like so.

aeae.a - Idle
aeaf.a - Walk
aeba.a - Run
ajgc.a – Shaking Head
aqae.a - limp walk or shoulder barge
aqaf.a – Sniffing or looking up
dcia.a - Howling
egce.a – Lying down, tail shaking.
ecbe.a – Getting up and sitting down again
egcf.a – Sitting down and getting up again
ajgd.a – Scratching his ear

13 – Now we need to find out what animations Barret has, we do this by opening acgd.hrc, which is Barret and making a list of every animation that he can use, like so.

adcb.a –
adcc.a –
adcd.a –
hojf.a –
aqad.a –
byfe.a –
hpaa.a –
didb.a –
caga.a –
didc.a –
agga.a –

14 – Then we open and find out what each of these animations do, like so.

adcb.a – Idle
adcc.a – Walk
adcd.a – Run
hojf.a – Stretching, but his feet are 90 degrees up.
aqad.a – Waist and leg wiggle
byfe.a –Waist and leg wiggle opposite direction.
hpaa.a – Raising right arm to point, then shakes his head
didb.a – Shrugging
caga.a – Handing someone something with his left hand.
didc.a – Beckoning someone to come over with his right hand.
agga.a – Disheartened, tired or angry looking down and shaking hands and shoulders.

15 – Then from the lists we compiled, we find what animations can be used instead of each one, then we copy each of the default animations to a secondary location, back them up before actually switching them over in case we make a mistake.

16 – Now that we have the animations sorted, we need to get the field skeletons sorted, to begin with, copy and rename acgd.hrc to something else, such as ncgd.hrc and then open it with a hex editor.

17 – Change every single model part, texture and rsd from axxx to the same name, except with an nxxx instead.

18 – Save it as adda.hrc.

19 – Now you can change the new Nanaki’s field and battle model to whatever you want and it won’t have any issues physically loading.

–Fixing the limit breaks and weapon data-

20 – You can use Wallmarket to directly change Nanaki’s limit breaks to Barret’s under the character information, and simply copy all of the weapon data for Barret’s wepons across to Nanaki, pay special attention to the attack sound, effect and whether its long range or not.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 21:26:49
That looks pretty good to me. Though I thought the Galian Beast was being used for the battle model. It's perfect for a Werewolf.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 21:31:03
Galiant Beast is being used, this is a tutorial on how to replace Nanaki with a normal character, such as Cloud, Barret, Cid, etc.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 21:47:32
Ya for my situation I'm starting on step 16 as I already have the battle model complete. Prior to step 16 is for a general change.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 21:49:50
any screens of the finished red werewolf's battle side?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 22:03:31
I'm hoping to get him finished tonight. I work mon-fri 10:30am-7pm CST. I'm having a problem with the textures mapping correctly. I'm going to send pieces and textures to CMH tonight and he's gonna take a look at it tomorrow. Individually the textures import to kimera fine but if I attempt to combine all textures to one they are too small for the part when it's in kimera
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 22:43:45
I'm hoping to get him finished tonight. I work mon-fri 10:30am-7pm CST. I'm having a problem with the textures mapping correctly. I'm going to send pieces and textures to CMH tonight and he's gonna take a look at it tomorrow. Individually the textures import to kimera fine but if I attempt to combine all textures to one they are too small for the part when it's in kimera

You mean the unconverted model, right? Kuroda's asking about the battle model, because they way you phrased that it sounds like it's totally done lol. All the model really needs is a single texture (or two or three at most that I can put into a single one) and pieces cut and filled. I'll try to get as much imported tomorrow as possible. It's not a difficult model to work with (the Galian Beast) so I don't foresee it taking long. By the way, what's the final word on the field model? If the battle model goes well I can get that started. Barret or Cloud?

Also, for the field model's hands, make sure you pose them before sending everything over. They'll be static in the game, in comparison to the battle model, so make sure you like how they look. Take a look at the claw on Kaldarasha's Vincent model if you need a good reference.   
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-04 22:59:56
The final field model (should) be Barret, I sorted and changed every single one of Nanaki's field animations to be Barret from Wolfman's request, so I certainly hope I didn't spend 2 and a half hours for nothing.

When you finish the field conversion, I'll link you the proper field animations.

...I know I need to share it and I am willing to, but part of me doesn't want to let it go until it's absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 23:10:04
The final field model (should) be Barret, I sorted and changed every single one of Nanaki's field animations to be Barret from Wolfman's request, so I certainly hope I didn't spend 2 and a half hours for nothing.

When you finish the field conversion, I'll link you the proper field animations.

...I know I need to share it and I am willing to, but part of me doesn't want to let it go until it's absolutely necessary.

No that's fine, just wanted to make sure there was a final decision before I did anything. Manually editing hrc and rsd files totally sucks so I only plan to do it once lol. Barret should work just fine, and we can always steal animations from Cloud too if needed.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 23:11:48
Good grief I see what ya mean. I am having a severe case of the mondays. lol. I'll check out Kaldarasha's claw on the vincent model. i kind of like this pose here for the hands. open and some what relaxed

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/03/emu2upa7.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 23:15:39
Thank you Kuroda. I will be getting this stuff over to CMH and get the battle model finished. I cannot express my gratefulness enough. I have learned soo much from you guys. Thank you. I can't wait to do more now that I am almost done with one character. I feel like with what you have all taught me I can be much more efficient. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-04 23:20:39
Thank you Kuroda. I will be getting this stuff over to CMH and get the battle model finished. I cannot express my gratefulness enough. I have learned soo much from you guys. Thank you. I can't wait to do more now that I am almost done with one character. I feel like with what you have all taught me I can be much more efficient.

This was also a massive undertaking for a first project lol. My first import was a crappy Cid model that never got finished.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-04 23:34:26
LoL. Thanks cmh. I've felt responsible for getting this done since the day I opened my virtual mouth. You know how many times I wanted to delete my username and walk away and I just can't.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: chasedark on 2014-08-04 23:54:14
LoL. Thanks cmh. I've felt responsible for getting this done since the day I opened my virtual mouth. You know how many times I wanted to delete my username and walk away and I just can't.

I'm having that same problem even though my mod is only private(And will remain that way until I can get rid of the copyrighted models with some that I eventually can learn to make myself) and I've only been working on this mod for two weeks Lol.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-05 01:41:14
One  cheap advice:

I noticed someone had the same problem as me in this topic, ( i dont remember who exactly thats was a minor issue) the problem was barret 's feets, who was " pointing top" so if u replace barret with another character like cloud, his feet will point down, that was a problem in my mod too, and that look ugly.

I never understand why until i saw this message simply saying that the feets was pointing top(i thought it was a size problem so i mystaken), there is an easy solution for this problem that i just found today, if you want for example :

Cloud in barret's skeleton,even if they have the same number of bones and parts, and their animations fits together, the feets will point down, then you only have to copy CID's feets instead of cloud ( they look very similar but cid's feets are the same direction than barret), and then u 'll have a cloud's model on barret skeleton with "normal feets".

Thats very easy and fast to do. Thats not a necessary advice for this topic, since its seem that you are directly working on barret field model, but it can help people who want to swap barret 's field model with another characters already existing.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-05 01:46:38
One  cheap advice:

I noticed someone had the same problem as me in this topic, ( i dont remember who exactly thats was a minor issue) the problem was barret 's feets, who was " pointing top" so if u replace barret with another character like cloud, his feet will point down, that was a problem in my mod too, and that look ugly.

I never understand why until i saw this message simply saying that the feets was pointing top(i thought it was a size problem so i mystaken), there is an easy solution for this problem that i just found today, if you want for example :

Cloud in barret's skeleton,even if they have the same number of bones and parts, and their animations fits together, the feets will point down, then you only have to copy CID's feets instead of cloud ( they look very similar but cid's feets are the same direction than barret), and then u 'll have a cloud's model on barret skeleton with "normal feets".

Thats very easy and fast to do. Thats not a necessary advice for this topic, since its seem that you are directly working on barret field model, but it can help people who want to swap barret 's field model with another characters already existing.

It's the skeleton. The bones for Cloud's feet stick out (90 angle from his lower leg), while Barret's just go straight down from his lower leg. So if you load one of Cloud's animations with Barret's skeleton the feet will be angled up by 90 degrees (pointing straight up). Just rotate the bone for each foot accordingly and propagate the frame, pretty quick fix.   
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-05 06:07:19
So I found out what was wrong with the head and why I was unable to place a texture in pcreator... I made the teeth as a separate obj. When I put them in the head a cross section view revealed the rest of the obj inside the head. Apparently pcreator doesn't like that. I had to completely remesh the head/teeth so the inside was hollow. It worked!!! But that took me 4 hours. I hate when I feel like I get very little done. :(
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-05 08:38:10
That's a minorr setback at best when you consider the sheer progress you made with the assistance of the community, after all, without help, would you have been anywhere near this point even if you had those extra 4 hours?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-05 12:17:06
Hell no. Without this community I would have never even thought of this. It would have been nothing but a pipe dream.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Leet on 2014-08-05 19:41:53
Hi wolfman didnt think this had progressed as much as it has. Ive been looking in the wrong places i guess lol. :wink:
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-06 06:51:29
Hi leet. Ya. I update this one way more. I got a lot done tonight. I got every piece "nubbed" perfectly. So that when the pieces move the really look perfect. Like as the arm bends it reveals an elbow. Lol. Little things like this are really going to help. Tomorrow night I'm going to be able to unwrap all if the textures into one simple map with ease and then be able to import everything into kimera and share the completed battle model.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: chasedark on 2014-08-06 14:04:22
Great work out there! I'm still learning how to animate but thanks to Kuroda I now know how to splice models which is essentially all I need for what I wanna do on my private project for now.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Leet on 2014-08-06 15:19:28
Yeah i admit rounding the ends of the pieces really help i did it on my clouds upper and lower arms. With the rest i just pulled the centre vertex to form a point so that the parts overlap in the centres. Nubbing each piece will definitely end up with better results though. If you take a look at apz freaks clouds battle model you see the difference it makes. It also helps when animating to to take out to uneven ness in the joints.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-06 15:30:03
Keep in mind if a piece have more then one group splicing will crash Kimera. You need to set all other groups to hidden, which you don't want to splice. If I remember right battle models didn't suffer from that problem, but I'm not sure with this.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-06 15:31:03
The best practice I've found is to select the verts around an opening you've made, first extrude them out some, and than slightly shrink them in by resizing them. Continue this until you gradually have a nice round numb and the holes nearly filled, then just merge the verts at the center. This will help keep your pieces proportionate when you fill holes, and allow you to make more transitional area if necessary. Generally you want transitional area that will overlap with its connecting pieces, so that the end of each one is touching the joint of the bone it connects to. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-06 16:05:58
what is neat about zBrush in this situation is the combination of the following tools.
Slice - Creates straight line separations through one object. Creates two new objects and makes the edge perfectly straight.
Fill Holes - Puts a face on that edge and interpolates the color information to match
Inflate - A brush that takes a flat surface and extrudes it. You can adjust the focus to make it more cone like or more spherical and everything in between
DynaMesh - Makes the object and new face into one object
Group Visible - Makes object one polygroup. This allows to create UVs based on individual body parts. So Instead of creating each UV and then putting each one together in photoshop, this does it for you.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-06 16:14:28
what is neat about zBrush in this situation is the combination of the following tools.
Slice - Creates straight line separations through one object. Creates two new objects and makes the edge perfectly straight.
Fill Holes - Puts a face on that edge and interpolates the color information to match
Inflate - A brush that takes a flat surface and extrudes it. You can adjust the focus to make it more cone like or more spherical and everything in between
DynaMesh - Makes the object and new face into one object
Group Visible - Makes object one polygroup. This allows to create UVs based on individual body parts. So Instead of creating each UV and then putting each one together in photoshop, this does it for you.

lol good point. I'm used to doing this in Blender and Maya.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-06 16:22:26
I do eventually want to learn Maya for animation purposes. I'm wondering if we could put Red Werewolf into a different game so I could use my full res model. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-06 16:25:31
Smash Brothers Brawl seems pretty easy, I know Rayved did the same with his Cid model. Otherwise Skyrim and Left 4 Dead are good choices.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Leet on 2014-08-06 17:07:04
Hey cmh im glad you described how you fill the holes in your models......i did the exact same thing on the shoulders and elbows of my cloud model. At least i know that im heading in the right direction with my models....the other good side of doing it that way is the texture covers the new geometry automatically so when the vertexs are merged you have a nice finish without remapping UV's.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-07 06:19:26
Well I'm leaving tomorrow for the weekend. Taking the family on vacation. Everything is pretty much done pre-import. So I have all parts done, extended and colored. All I have to do is map the texture. Which shouldn't take long and then import to kimera. The only thing I need a suggestion on is the dreads. There are not any bones for the dreads. I can either make them static to the head which will cause a lot of clipping. Or I can make them static to the body which will not allow them to move. Or I can recreate them, make them short and attach to the head which will cause very little clipping. Which of the three do you think I should do?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-07 14:14:29
I think the head would be best, and should be fine the way they are. It'll be more noticeable if they're attached to the body and not the head. If I remember the Galian Beast's animations there shouldn't be a lot of clipping for the most part, only when it looks directly down (like chin touching chest). And I can adjust it to help reduce clipping otherwise.

This is good news. Let me know when the new uv mapping is done.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-07 15:07:37
I think I am going to fuse the dreads to the body for the simple reason of them being sooo long and the drape over the body. Hopefully I can get the UV Map done tonight before we leave.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-07 15:22:41
The Galian Beast doesn't have a separate neck piece, so if they start around the top of the neck and blend in pretty well with the rest of the hair that should work fine than with how they come down and rest against the chest. If there was a dividing piece it wouldn't work as well, so that should be fine actually. 
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-07 15:48:26
Im almost there cmh. I can taste it. :)

I want to stop and thank everyone for everything they have done for me long the way.
I began this project with only an idea. And now with everyone's help and work it is almost complete.

cmh - You have been helping me since the beginning. everything from which 3D software to us to how nubs should be properly extruded

Leonhart - You've also been here since the beginning. Cheering me along and defending me from people who think a malicious macabre werewolf should have puppy teeth. And I love the gif's too

Kaldarasha - You've been more of the focused one. Letting me know what was and wasn't possible. Very straight forward and direct

Jeet - Created Galiant Beast as a playable battle character, allowing me to cut out a months worth of animation work.

Obesebear - Was the one who warned me of what I was getting myself into and made sure I knew this wasn't going to be a cake walk

Scrat - Gave me additional info on 3D software

Mendelevium - Reminded me not to get caught up in mirroring too much

Obesebear and Sega Chief - The ones who originally told me to use Galiant Beast  back in late June. I wish I would have listened then and found Jeet then as well.

Kuroda - So finally we come to Kuroda. A well seasoned modder who has unbelievable speed and accuracy on modding and a plethora of information to give. His long winded responses became tutorials in themselves and I enjoyed reading every word. His info combined with cmh's tutorial and info a long the way were the only reasons I was able to start and get this to where it is now and for that i am very thankful.

Thanks everyone and if I missed giving credit to someone PM and I'll edit this post. I don't want anyone ever thinking I did this on my own.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: obesebear on 2014-08-07 15:51:34
The best idea would be to attach it to his body, but clone it up into his head a good ways.  Then also have it attached to his head, and clone it down into his body.  This way any head movement will still seem ok(ish) because they will clip into each other
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-07 17:53:53
Thanks obesebear. I didn't think of that. I wonder how that would look though from the side when both the chest braids and head braids were visible. Is it possible to replace Galiants head skeleton with Red xiii's? Or is it possible to add bones?
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-07 17:58:12
Thanks obesebear. I didn't think of that. I wonder how that would look though from the side when both the chest braids and head braids were visible. Is it possible to replace Galiants head skeleton with Red xiii's? Or is it possible to add bones?

It's not a bad idea, I'm just not sure how noticeable it'll be since the braids start at the back of the head and go down the sides of the neck. I can play with this idea later though when the models imported in kimera and see how it looks.

No we can only edit the skeletons. I can play with this idea later when the models fully imported and see how it looks.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-08 05:59:06
Well I got everything done tonight up to the point of importing to kimera. Everything has been tested in pcreator and looks perfect. Only thing left is kimera animations and the field conversion. Ahh so relieved.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Luigi Brosse on 2014-08-08 09:14:21
people who think a malicious macabre werewolf should have puppy teeth

Would that be me?  ;D :mrgreen:
Apologies if you thought my comment was negative. For me the teeth are a tad too long, but I really like all the rest. You did an amazing job (in a very short amount of time) and I am pretty much amazed by what you have achieved so far. Even if werewolves are not my favorite character by far, I will give your mod a go just because it is beautiful  :).
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-08 11:16:54
I was just teasing you luigi. Lol. All work needs positive and negative criticism. I actually took your advice and decreased them a bit lol. But they still stick out of the mouth when close. Thanks for the compliments.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Luigi Brosse on 2014-08-08 12:20:03
No offense taken. I understood it right. :)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-12 02:06:05
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/12/mubu5ebu.jpg)

Just wanted to post an update. I know this is taking me forever but I feel that soon we will have the first beta. This importing was done by cmh. He is working on the rest when he had time as we ran into a little hurdle but I think we fixed it.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-12 02:11:18
Hey cmh. I may have found another annoying issue. :( the galliant beast leg is 3 pieces. Mine is 4. Ughhh!! Unless you've already mended the parts I can do it.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-08-12 03:24:46
Great progress!
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-12 03:39:07
Hey cmh. I may have found another annoying issue. :( the galliant beast leg is 3 pieces. Mine is 4. Ughhh!! Unless you've already mended the parts I can do it.

Lol yeah I saw that. I combined them in pcreator so they'll be a single piece. I think we're good, at least until the full model is imported and I test the animations.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-12 04:30:55
Lol. Your my new best friend cmh
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-14 13:43:30
Getting so close now. After some small modifications to red werewolf's structure, cmh and finally have all pieces importable. All that's left now is to import the final pieces, tweak the animations a little and the first beta will be complete for the battle model! Then we will work on the field conversion. We're hoping to release the battle model this weekend. I hope you all are as excited as I am.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Luigi Brosse on 2014-08-14 14:14:30
I am !
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-15 23:54:25
Very very soon... :evil:
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-16 02:11:36
Very very soon... :evil:

Soon indeed.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10569071_244380349105130_6630407829967693131_n.jpg?oh=aac08d970b37288aeb3998908cd2af8d&oe=547E6DC2&__gda__=1416019444_6ebd0b3cdaeab55dd52a442b75e09f84) (https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10582751_244380332438465_4023586229577196708_o.jpg) (https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10568792_244380365771795_6243784773010241348_n.jpg?oh=f515afae6c3c6458fea80ecd668f02a2&oe=5480A846&__gda__=1415529626_098de973ce7a02b33d283f57b45ea200) (https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/7340_244380382438460_2350441087188022377_n.jpg?oh=95cb8473fb782075fab1be7dd07c4df2&oe=547CA3C2&__gda__=1417452954_7025334458fced4ad1b0b54dde520b16)

Importing for this mod is pretty much done now. The field models are based on Barret and I already edited all the pieces and files so they wont overwrite anything. I didn't rename them for Red XIII though, I basically just added 10 to everything (for example ACIC.p became ACIC10.p and ACHB1.p became ACHB11.p) This was much faster and less likely to mix up names. It animates pretty well, but I think quite a few of Clouds animations should be substituted, particularly the running animation. I think Bloodshot's running animation would work best, the Werewolf looks like it's shuffling its feet with Barret's.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-16 03:15:21
I cannot express my excitement. Cmh. You did an amazing job. I think I'm going to cry lol. I definitely think I'm going to be working on the textures to try and implement some faux fur and detail.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Luigi Brosse on 2014-08-16 18:26:58
This is impressive.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-17 04:41:38
So I just got done texturing Red with a fur alpha I found in Photoshop. This def bring way more depth.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/17/8avyjy2u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/17/gyvuba2a.jpg)
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-17 08:22:16
Ooooh, I have to say, I am impressed with how good it's looking so far.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-17 09:05:27
Thanks Kuroda. Means a lot coming from someone of your caliber.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-17 11:34:00
I'll take a look at the animations you wanted me to, but I won't get a chance for a few hours, I'm going...

...It may not sound especially bad or anything, but if you know me, this is a horrible experience...

...To the park.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-17 15:38:28
Hope the park went well kuroda. Thanks for checking them out. I'm hoping to get the battle beta posted tonight and make updates until he is perfect.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Mcindus on 2014-08-17 19:12:51
I'll take a look at the animations you wanted me to, but I won't get a chance for a few hours, I'm going...

...It may not sound especially bad or anything, but if you know me, this is a horrible experience...

...To the park.

Why do you have to go to the park?  If it's so bad... why go?  Girlfriend/wife making you? Dog? Megalomaniacal rampage?

So I just got done texturing Red with a fur alpha I found in Photoshop. This def bring way more depth.

Wow. Amazing work, WolfMan.  I've been following this post since you first said hello - and I'm really happy to see this kind of progress. 
This is what this community is all about!  We are the Qhimm hivemind.
Resistance is futile.  You will play the FF series forever.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-17 20:57:15
Thanks Mcindus. Nice to meet you. I've been re reading the thread and thinking back to what was going through my mind at the time of my earlier posts. I'm very proud to have gone from not even know what a 3D modeling program was to this. It has been a fun ride. Tons of ups and downs.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: chasedark on 2014-08-18 03:37:52
Thanks Mcindus. Nice to meet you. I've been re reading the thread and thinking back to what was going through my mind at the time of my earlier posts. I'm very proud to have gone from not even know what a 3D modeling program was to this. It has been a fun ride. Tons of ups and downs.

I've been keeping up with this, and it's been inspiring me to work on 3d modelling as well.  Before I get into making full models, I'm trying to import models(can't say what I'm importing).  But from how much you've gotten done I'm feeling really inspired to actually do it.  My dream is to be able to make a whole slew of new models to remake the entire game, though(Kuroda's been teaching me basics for FF7, and it's a bumpy but entertaining ride).  I hope to see your mod when it's complete more than almost any mod I've seen so far.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 04:18:24
Well wait no more chase. I am finalizing a couple of anumations and then I will post the 1st Beta Release in about 10 min.
Title: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 05:01:29
DELETED
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 05:03:44
PS I will be doing the the avatar soon and cmh, check out hoe I adjusted some of the animations. I really caught on to it much better!! Especially the quadruped run! You'll be very proud.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 05:14:56
PPS the limits are not assigned yet and that's not something I've learned yet. So really this I guess this is a pretty immature beta. If someone knows how to assign the limit breaks and wants to do it just send me the 7z back and I'll update it. I know Jeet said that only certain limits will work for his type.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-18 07:49:17
Nice works, thats sad about runing animations part, i hope u ll be able to fixe it.

For the limits break:

Once again i tested all this on PSX version, maybe it will works better on PC:

ALL 4 vincent's monstesr ( and all enemies characters) cannot use the limits break of playable characters, it will cause a big texture glitch ( maybe this happend only on psx? so u can give a try on PC but i doubt about it)

So far I noticed some enemy's spell and vincent's limits break works(the only enemy/monster who can use all limits breaks is safer sephiroth,dunno why):

-beast flare
-livewire
-nightmare
-satan slam ( works but crash when it come to the second part of the limit, probably fixable)

-blaster
-tsunami
-cait  sith's toy box limits

There is a lot of enemy's spell that works but they are not really impressive, so i didnt noticed them for a limits break.
All of this can be made with "LIBRE" and " WALLMARKET"

If the PC version is different and allow gallean beast to use any limits break, then just ignore this, anyway with the lack of animations of vincent's monster, thebetter choice is to use projectile limits breaks because you'll never be able to do something like omnislash
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-08-18 11:37:37
Ive got the beta downloaded on my phone and will have a look later......been looking forward to seeing this in game buddy.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 13:06:34
I fixed the running animation.
Title: Re: [WIP] Red XIII werewolf mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-18 13:30:40
I'm not sure where to post now lol. I guess this is the working thread and the other is about release posts and stuff. The beta looks great, the detail to the fur and tattoos really brings it to life, and I like the animation fixes. It didn't run very well at all, this is much better. I'm looking forward to trying it out later this evening. It sounds like there's a few good options for limit breaks too. Seven would be ideal but four is enough if there isn't a lot of options. As long as they look really cool lol. I'm not sure how to do this, but I think it can be done in wallmarket which isn't too hard to learn.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: meesbaker on 2014-08-18 14:14:52
This is a great idea and good work so far however, you will always face the same kind of animation problems when changing a field model to something totally different. The animations for the field models are contained in the field files and thus spread throughout the whole game data. You would have to go into every scene and fix the animations for Nanaki that are contained which is a horrible amount of work.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-18 14:18:20
Makou Reactor lists each animation for every character and it's not too hard to see where they're used. It's not too difficult to change them, it'll just be time consuming. Luckily this wont be as difficult as swapping Cloud, who's in nearly every scene lol.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: meesbaker on 2014-08-18 14:25:26
Time consuming is just what I meant but you're actually right, Nanaki doesn't appear and act that much.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-18 17:20:55
Why does nobody ever try to simply change the field skeleton and animations?

It is a far easier approach, and once you do it, you can just back up the field animations and never need to do it again, for any project as long as you inject the proper animations and be done with it in a matter of moments.

To do it this way, you simply need to do a hard swap of the physical field animations of Nanaki with another skeleton, such as Cloud, Tifa, Barret, etc.(for this purpose, Barret is best.)

Then you'd open up a different field skeleton with a hex editor and change all the parts in it to something else easy to do, such as for barret's field skeleton to be instead of axxx, to nxxx and then rename all the parts, and this will work ingame.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-18 17:32:12
That's pretty much where it is now. The field model is ready and I already changed all the file names so they wont overwrite any of Barrets. It just needs to be set for the animations now so the model can work in the game. Have you swapped Barret for Red XIII before or has this not been done yet?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 18:31:34
Thanks leet. I'd love to see this in the psx. I didn't know the psx version could be modded to this extent. I'd love to play our HD version on my phones emulator!
Cmh, I thinks kuroda has already swapped barret and nanaki but is a bit hesitant to release due to the effort that went in.
Kuroda, if you could help in the conversion it would be very appreciated. I can send the link with the field model if that helps. Thanks guys
Meesbaker, thanks for the reality check. I def knew that I was getting in way over my head but this has been the greatest design challenge I've ever had. I'm eager to learn more.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 18:45:20
Also I want to look into the best way of making him walk with the backward bent knees instead of straight legged.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: meesbaker on 2014-08-18 19:08:34
Cool I appreciate your efforts :)

When you were talking to leet about the psx version did you mean this mod right here? A self created werewolf nanaki 3d model included in the Playstation version? You can totally forget that ;)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 19:46:01
From what I understand leet doesn't have the pc game. He does everything in psx. Maybe I misunderstood
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: PapSnatchBrim [SwornEnemy] (DMR) on 2014-08-18 20:31:00
very cool idea.. just tested it, a few problems.
half his head and back are invisible in my game and most of the animations are broken, there is no 'attack' animation and uses the 'berserk dance animation' when using spells
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-18 20:36:15
very cool idea.. just tested it, a few problems.
half his head and back are invisible in my game and most of the animations are broken, there is no 'attack' animation and uses the 'berserk dance animation' when using spells

@WolfMan or cmh175

This sounds as if the 'make model symmetric' function in Kimera was used. Make sure V_NOCULL is unchecked for the mirrored group.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 20:38:02
Thank you Pap. This is great. The first feedback. Gotta love betas. Could you by any chance be able to upload a screenshot or even a video capture would be even better. I haven't even been able to get ff7 installed yet after reformatting my computer. I knew that cmh said everything looked good so far so I'd like to see what your seeing. Thanks again.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-18 20:39:10
Thanks kaldarasha. I can look when I get home. Unless cmh gets to it first.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-18 23:05:31
Wasn't me lol. If I'm making any real alterations to a model I use Maya. Kimera has many secret and allusive abilities, many of which are lost on me lol. I can take a look in a bit but if it's anything other than a transparency issue with the texture I'm not sure how to fix it in Kimera. Short of importing the part again. Doable, but not preferred.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-19 00:20:54
Interesting, yeah what the hell is that? The field model works fine, though I haven't tested it with the new textures Wolfman did. As long as nothing is pure black (0,0,0) nothing should be transparent. Curious.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10560466_245303705679461_3591617246481028041_o.jpg)


The animations are wonky too. It was originally put together as a demo though, I'm guessing it's the rwab file. As the model animates fine in kimera.

~Wolfman, when you saved the model did you move it to another folder? rwab is missing (originally sjab from the beast download). That's the file edited for the model to work right?

~ I added the **ab from the backup I had of the model, it animates really well. Other than Red XIII's face is missing. I'll take a look at the tex files, but I'm not sure what could be the cause. It seems to be just the lower legs, chest, and head. So it every texture other than rwac. I'm not sure why they're any different though.


Tried again with the original model I backed up, with the orignal textures, has the same issue. The textures work fine with the field model though, which is what I'd tested.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 02:40:52
Ok. Wtf is going on. Me and cmh are running out of ideas. Everything works perfect in kimera. But when he goes in it's chaos. Who can solve this mystery. I'm thinking we might need Kaldarasha.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-19 03:14:47
Try to use the texture ID 0 for the head and the head texture needs to be set at the first, too. It could be that the game use for the head generally the first texture. It looks like that the game place a wrong texture on the head. By the way what is the resolution for the textures? Maybe the game has a memory limit for a character and doesn't load the last texture in?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-19 03:26:49
This is worth a try. Wolfman you can change the textures order in kimera in the p editor window. I can do it tomorrow otherwise if you need help.

That's not a bad point. Each texture is about 2048. Big, but it's nothing I haven't done before though. TA Cloud is about the same. I think it maybe a formatting issue or something. The texture works fine on the field model, but gets screwy with the battle model.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 03:29:30
They are all 2048 resolution.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 03:32:41
This would make sense considering that the black around the textures is true black
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-19 03:39:21
This shouldn't be an issue unless the black is actually apart of the model. Though its not a bad idea changing that. Certainly cant hurt, just make sure the actual textured parts dont get brightned too. Let's try changing the black first, if it's still transparent I'll swap the texture slots around.

Check the tattoos too, there seems to be some transparency around them in the game.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 03:44:09
What I'm saying is that if the textures are off then the true black areas would show up on the body parts and therefore be transparent. I'm going to change the true black to 1,1,1. When we import it, if I'm right the transparent areas will become 1,1,1. That will tell us it is a texture error.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 03:44:50
Meaning they are applying incorrectly.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 03:50:36
What if we consolidate the textures. There's two textures that show every piece of the character. But not every piece is used. What if we delete the pieces that aren't being used. I think that textures might be trying to overlap.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-19 03:59:12
I don't think that's it. Each part has it's uv mapping, and an assigned texture slot. Unless the part is edited to use more than one texture it'll only use the assigned slot. So I don't think they're overlapping.

The brightening the black sounds like a good idea. It didn't seem like there was much black actually applied to the model, but it's certainly worth a try. If the parts show up as 1,1,1 than you maybe right about the textures overlapping. Though Im not sure how that would happen.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 05:17:38
OK. I changed all of the tru blacks to 1,1,1 and now nothing is transparent. Yay. One step at a time. I updated the Beta file.
The head torso chest and calf are the parts with issues. I'm exhausted and headed to bed, but let me know if you get a chance tomorrow CMH to look into reassigning the texture slots. It seems those parts are trying also to use the textures that are duplicated in the texture 3 slot. Maybe because they are so similar or maybe I assigned them to the wrong slot id. If you don't get a chance cmh, I'll look into it but wont be till late tomorrow night.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 05:48:46
Please don't tell me we will have to reimport the parts and re do the animations. I might cry
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-19 05:57:36
Please use the modify button to edit your last post instead of making a new one. I'll look in to this and will see if it's an ID issue.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 06:26:43
Thank you kaldarasha. And I will start modifying posts instead of bulk posting.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-19 06:57:28
So what have we learned today:
The head uses always the texture ID 0.
The Body use the ID 0 or 1.
The rest seems to use what ever it is set at.

https://mega.co.nz/#!KY0SnIBI!KjaqeT2zlyXWyaNQZhuV2PA4raBYvChDG4ER9-5aRrM
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-19 09:48:35
Did you use the battle animations i gave you?

Someone tested it when i released it and said its worked right? I couldnt test it myself, since i dont have the PC version installed, but from what i see the animations script are exactly the same that the PSX version, but when i look at the problem ( magic animation not working etc) it must come from THIS file, thats strange

EDIT: ok good news, the sjab i uploaded was the wrong one ( the test version), i upload the good one, tested on my PSX and works, but the file size is altered, i hope it wont cause any troubles.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3764ja337rrd7gy/red.rar

This version is ready to be played, every limits breaks works ( they are based on beast flare timing so all you have to do is give to red 13 beast flare limits break) the fix on magic casting is fixed too, if its still not works with this, then i think the problem dont come from sjab
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 15:04:09
Kaldarasha: so did you switch around the textures? If so thank you so much. If not thank you so much for the info and I will work on it tonight.

Jeet: awesome! So will I only have to replace the sjab? Will we lose the imported parts and textures? I did make some alterations to the axis rotations for the animations but that was easy and I can do it again no problem. I just hope we don't have to reimport him. Thank you for this.

This community is just flat out awesome.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-19 15:21:49
Kaldarasha: so did you switch around the textures? If so thank you so much. If not thank you so much for the info and I will work on it tonight.

Jeet: awesome! So will I only have to replace the sjab? Will we lose the imported parts and textures? I did make some alterations to the axis rotations for the animations but that was easy and I can do it again no problem. I just hope we don't have to reimport him. Thank you for this.

This community is just flat out awesome.

If you check the texture slots you'll be able to tell right away if they're different. Otherwise I can help with this later. The sjab file wont effect the model itself or the animations you did. Just rename it to rwab and it's good to go.

Never mind, I couldn't get Kaldarasha's mega link to work, and either way it wouldn't have the new shaded model I did that's not as dark. When I first swapped the textures before changing the slots for each piece it did actually look like the model in the game, so this probably is the fix. I also added the new rwab file. I sent it to Wolfman so he can add the updated textures that have dark grey instead of black to help with the transparency, and then it should be good to go.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 15:36:31
Ok cmh. Now what I will have to do with the textures is open the part.3ds in pcreator. Change the texture slot. Save the part.p. then will we have to reimport that part to use a different texture slot?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-19 15:47:41
Ok cmh. Now what I will have to do with the textures is open the part.3ds in pcreator. Change the texture slot. Save the part.p. then will we have to reimport that part to use a different texture slot?

lol don't worry, already done. Check your inbox in a sec.

For reference though, I just changed the names of rwac though rwaf so they were in the correct order, and changed the texture slot assigned to each piece in kimera. Just open the p editor window, find the groups menu and click on the group listed there and hit group properties. You can change the texture slot at the bottom of the new window. 
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-08-19 16:24:26
Hi wolfman....i actually use ff7 pc. I wouldnt know where to start modding the psx version lol.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 17:07:30
Thanks everyone
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-19 23:15:55
Ok, so the head and chest are fixed but now the rest of the pieces are messed up. Nothing is transparent anymore, but for some reason the game is mixing up the texture slots for this model. It's weird, you can use up to ten textures for a single battle model but this particular one cant. I know how to fix it, it'll just be annoying and time consuming.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10599616_245519135657918_4077609380406444471_n.jpg?oh=565f577b3df036bb7cd097b28cce759c&oe=546FDF9A&__gda__=1417315362_cd97914939f3b60dc38dd03801a42bbd)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-19 23:28:47
So we're going to have to combine the textures that are actually used all into one are we. DAMN!!! This is so goofy
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-20 00:24:44
download it from the link I had posted...
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-20 01:54:43
Did you test it in game Kal?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-20 02:04:31
Yes I have tested him, otherwise I couldn't check if my ID theory was right. You don't need pCreator. You can do everything in Kimera. You can change the load order of the textures in texture option of the main window and the used texture ID for a part can be changed in the editor window under set group properties.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-20 02:05:44
I just tested it in game and it was perfect. Thanks Kal. I am just absolutely amazed. I don't know what you did but you saved me a weeks worth of work

I'm going to put the new rwab file in and test it out. I'll try to record a video of the new finished battle model. Super stoked.  ;D
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-20 03:20:05
This is curious. That's exactly what I did. Reordered them head first, chest second, and the others afterwards. That's so weird.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-20 05:03:05
I updated the Beta.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/20/apa2ezu5.jpg)

I also put a video on YouTube lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvPfO2M5DIE&sns=em

Some animations still need a little work and for some reason when he cast magic there's no green fire around him.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-20 08:35:02
Nice work, about the green effect its me who deleted it , since galeanbeast dont have one, i can re add it if you want, thats cost 30sec to do it, i suppose the animations that not works are the " item" or "sense" etc? Again, since the beast dont have animations for that, i just put the idle animation for this, the item will works but he will use it in idle animation.

Another thing: when he cast fire, there is delay between the end of his magic animation, and the fire effect, i can make the delay shorted so it look more dynamic if you want, the reason i made a long delay is for the camera, because if i make the delay shorter u wont see the end of his magic casting animation,because the camera will follow the fire spell, thats look like detail but since he have only two real animations, its better to be perfect.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: dkma841 on 2014-08-20 10:42:23
.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-20 10:45:45
Whoa! The guy on the left has three arms. :o
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-08-20 12:01:11
Hey wolfman.......i was just thinking i know you wanted to make the legs look like they did in your original model. I think this would be possible if you cut the lower half of the leg so that it is one piece. As long as the knee and ankle joints line up with the ends of the bone it wont matter if the rest is outside.....the only thing to watch for would be if he were to kneel down to far or lean to far back.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-20 12:35:41
Hey wolfman.......i was just thinking i know you wanted to make the legs look like they did in your original model. I think this would be possible if you cut the lower half of the leg so that it is one piece. As long as the knee and ankle joints line up with the ends of the bone it wont matter if the rest is outside.....the only thing to watch for would be if he were to kneel down to far or lean to far back.

The lower leg is one piece, I'm not sure what you mean. It is true, as long as each end of the piece rest on the bone than it should work fine. What's the current status of the field model conversion though, that's probably the main thing that's left other than assigning the battle model limit breaks.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-20 14:46:21
I have to talk to Kuroda. I'm pretty sure he is doing the field model. If not I wonder if Jeet has any abilities for the conversion.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-20 15:52:15
I have the animations for Nanaki to be either Cloud or Barret already done.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-20 17:13:38
Will we be able to adjust the legs to have the backwards bend?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-20 18:15:16
We can do that, but we'd have to adjust each of his individual animations for it to take effect though.

Field animations are much easier to work with than battle ones, I'll take a crack at bending the legs back, can you PM me the field files?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-20 18:47:25
Yes. I will send it when I get home tonight. I have to resave the textures. The new textures have the fur overlay. I'll save them as the tex files for the field. Cmh, is there anyway you could save the tex files from the new textures and send over to kuroda since you probably have access to them now? If not I will tonight.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-20 20:12:12
Sorry man, I've been running around to client offices all day, using a tablet since this morning. It's not good when people screw stuff up enough I have to fix it on site. By the way, you wont be able to change the textures and save it in kimera. The field model crashes kimera right away. You can work on the animations just fine I think, though may have to remove most of the textures first (head and chest since you're working on the legs). Instead open Kimera and see what textures the head, chest, lower leg, and the upper arm use, and just rename your new tex files to match and copy them into the folder to overwrite the old ones.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-20 20:51:01
Perfect. Thanks cmh. I'll send you the field file soon kuroda.
We can do that, but we'd have to adjust each of his individual animations for it to take effect though.

Field animations are much easier to work with than battle ones, I'll take a crack at bending the legs back, can you PM me the field files?

Hey there Kuroda. I sent you the field model. Let me know if you need anything. Thanks again.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-20 22:29:00

Nice work, about the green effect its me who deleted it , since galeanbeast dont have one, i can re add it if you want, thats cost 30sec to do it, i suppose the animations that not works are the " item" or "sense" etc? Again, since the beast dont have animations for that, i just put the idle animation for this, the item will works but he will use it in idle animation.

Another thing: when he cast fire, there is delay between the end of his magic animation, and the fire effect, i can make the delay shorted so it look more dynamic if you want, the reason i made a long delay is for the camera, because if i make the delay shorter u wont see the end of his magic casting animation,because the camera will follow the fire spell, thats look like detail but since he have only two real animations, its better to be perfect.

Yes Jeet. I am definitely wanting to have the green effect added. :). I'm also going to need to look into whether or not the red effect happens when he uses a limit. Is there anyway of using the howl as his celebration animation?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: vayneruel on 2014-08-20 22:50:37
Galian beast not have green aura for magic? i think yes he has, because i replaced a enemy with his battle model i set the correct animation and when he cast magic the green aura appears.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-21 09:39:44
Yes vayneruel, but i meant the original and true gallean beast never use the green effect(not the playable one but vincent's)

WolfMan>
Here is the new version:

Magic, enemy skill, summon and limits break now have their own effect ( green , red, etc)
He now have howling has victory pose
Before using limits break he will perform howling animation too

http://www.mediafire.com/download/n9jzrr8mrmmcm3e/newred.rar

EDIT: need to be tested by someone, because I couldnt, since I dont have the howling animation on my version ( i deleted it to free some space since PSX is size limited, but anyway this should works fine)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-08-21 11:51:50
I'm really hyped about this! :D I'd love to watch a video! I wish there was a way to implement a howling sound as well though!!!
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-21 12:08:51
Thanks Jeet. I will test this today. Kuroda is working on the field model. I will be adding limit breaks also today. Which should finalize the battle model other than tweaks here and there. Thanks Leo. I wish lol. You've been here since post#1 lol. I can't believe this is where we are now.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-21 13:35:00
The howling sound is by default, the creature's sound we hear when vincent's transform,there is a command to create a sound in each animation ( this is used most of time for machine gun of soldiers, and barret, its an additional sound), so there is maybe a way to add the sound of the beast.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-21 13:40:17
That would be really cool jeet. Do you know where I would find the sound and how I would add to the animation?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-21 14:13:35
No need to find , its located in the animation script i gave you, this is just a value to adjust, but i cant remember wich one, i ll post it when i have some times
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-22 04:12:46
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/22/qa7emega.jpg)
Hunched over or standing tall
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-22 04:15:33
Looks pretty good man. You'll need to check the other animations though.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-22 04:18:06
I just did the frame options with propagate on and the other animations didn't budge. I'm starting to love kimera. Lol. I also adjust him running on all fours so that the body is upright a little more.

Jeet the new animations are perfect!!

New Video with sound and all animations working much better.
http://youtu.be/4B6yAUrgitQ (http://youtu.be/4B6yAUrgitQ)
I think it's safe to say the battle model is done.
Only thing left is the limits and I am clueless how to use Libre and or WallMarket. Especially since wallmarket closes as soon as I open it.

Beta has been updated

And is it just me or is he kinda small. I mean barret is like twice his size. Would this be a simple adjustment or not? Lol
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-22 13:00:15
I just did the frame options with propagate on and the other animations didn't budge. I'm starting to love kimera. Lol. I also adjust him running on all fours so that the body is upright a little more.

Jeet the new animations are perfect!!

New Video with sound and all animations working much better.
http://youtu.be/4B6yAUrgitQ (http://youtu.be/4B6yAUrgitQ)
I think it's safe to say the battle model is done.
Only thing left is the limits and I am clueless how to use Libre and or WallMarket. Especially since wallmarket closes as soon as I open it.

Beta has been updated

And is it just me or is he kinda small. I mean barret is like twice his size. Would this be a simple adjustment or not? Lol

If you send me a copy of the kernel this afternoon I can take a look and help out. Otherwise it'll have to wait till either later tonight or tomorrow.

Well, yes and no. Making the model bigger is as easy as just resizing everything up to like 110 or 120, but you also need to accurately resize the bones as well. Basically it has potential to be quick and easy, and a chance of being a pain in the ass lol. What's the size comparison to Barret? I know I made the field model bigger because I had to resize the bones, particularly for the chest, it's significantly taller.   

~Took a look at the screen shot on the last page. Barret seems taller, but he's also not bending over nearly as much. The Werewolf's legs are bent and he's leaning forward, so at first glance he looks shorter. When I did the field model though I didn't realize how tall he was. Compare the size after you've adjusted the animations so he's standing up straighter, it probably wont seem as bad now.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-22 13:17:15
You want the kernel. Ok. Don't laugh at me. What is the kernel? And since your asking for mine does this mean anyone who gets Red Werewolf will have to adjust their kernel?

He just seems littler than Barrett. Maybe he wouldn't be shorter if he wasn't hunched and knees bent, but he is def not as thick. The video I uploaded shows the new animations.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Vgr on 2014-08-22 13:27:38
If you only modified the model, the kernel was not affected. It can be found in data/kernel/kernel.bin btw. It's completely unrelated to models, though, so I don't see why he'd want it.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-22 13:51:55
If you only modified the model, the kernel was not affected. It can be found in data/kernel/kernel.bin btw. It's completely unrelated to models, though, so I don't see why he'd want it.

I need to for the limit breaks. I'm not super experienced using Wallmarket but I have made some alterations to the limits, though nothing like this, and it saved to the kernel.

No, when the limits are set in Wallmarket the file can be exported and just pasted into the kernel folder I believe. I'll also put together a 7thHeaven mod later when everything's done so there isn't so much work needed for installtion.

~By the way, this Werewolf is about 15% bigger all around now. I already fixed and pieces and bones, but give it a quick once over. I also haven't used it in the game so check out it's size. It should definitely be bigger than Barret now, without looking ridiculously massive.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/xcewd6iqx7yaopd/RedWerewolfBeta.7z (http://www.mediafire.com/download/xcewd6iqx7yaopd/RedWerewolfBeta.7z)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-22 14:26:42
Heres the kernel. I'll check out Red's size when I get home from work. Thanks again CMH.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/03ej2c164oq3f34/kernel.rar?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/03ej2c164oq3f34/kernel.rar?dl=0)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-22 15:08:10
Ok, I'm able to change the limit breaks but there's a few problems. For one the drop down menus to select the limits is cut off, basically says Box Red and about three or four letters of the limit. Is this just the current version or has it always been that way? Cant seem to resize Wallmarket either. The next is I'm not sure what Limits I can assign. I have Beast Flare, Berserk Dance, and was going to put Live Wire and Nightmare on level three. Still need three more. Was thinking of trying Satan Slam and Gigadunk but not sure if they'll work, and still need one more.

More importantly I'm not sure how to export this. I can save the whole kernel but requiring the whole file for just one model seems silly. Isn't there a way to export it and copy it into the kernel folder or something?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-22 15:11:19
Have you looked at Libre? It had all the info completely nothing was cut off. It's a limit break editor in the Big List.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-22 16:09:31
It has a lot of options for editing the limits themselves, but I don't see anything about replacing one for another.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-22 16:17:12
I didn't either. Hmm I wonder if good ol' Jeet has an idea. :)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-22 17:39:04
Its simple, open LIBRE and check all values of " beast flare" ( example) u' ll see information about : animation, target, camera etc etc, just copy every values into the red 13 limits break " sled fang" (example) , no need to change the name if you just want to test it, and same for the camera, u can take the data of any camera, what is important is the animation value.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-22 17:57:51
Thanks I'll take another look and see if I can figure it out. I've never used the tool before. I've mostly done models, not gaming changing mods.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-22 19:42:47
This project definitely rounds a modders skills lol.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: chasedark on 2014-08-22 23:47:13
It's looking really good, too.  I wish my animating MP Cloud would go as well Lol.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-23 02:36:14
It took a lot of time and people for this so far chase. Don't get discouraged. Send me some screenshots of what you have so far. I know if you put in the effort everyone chips in free time to help. Only if you show the dedication. A lot of people told me it was going to be hard or not possible. I just kept charging forward
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-23 02:48:06
Animations are tricky too since Kimera wasn't really designed with editing them in mind. It gets the job done, but it was more about editing the models. Just stay at it, stay patient, and for the love of god save often. Check out the 60 fps thread too, there's tons of animation discussions there.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: chasedark on 2014-08-23 05:54:35
With my animations I learned to save often when I lost six full animations one day because I got the overflow error.  I've only got 10 animations done on MP Cloud, and the item-self one is the laziest one I've done because I couldn't think of how I wanted him to do it.  I'm also debating on whether or not to give him an actual melee weapon or keeping him all ranged(I'm going to try giving him Barret's limit breaks, Kuroda said it should work).

Does your Red have custom animations?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-23 18:43:04
Yes there are a lot of adjustments and created animations.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-23 18:53:20
With my animations I learned to save often when I lost six full animations one day because I got the overflow error. 

 ;D That's my first advice when someone ask about animation.  :-D

Have you tried to raise up the UNDO_BUFFER_CAPACITY = in the Kimera config? I have no idea what it is doing exactly, but it could be worth to try to change the value of it.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-23 20:00:12
Sounds like that might adjust the number of steps Kimera saves for undoing an action.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-23 20:15:01
Now that you mentioned it, it's obvious.  :roll:
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-23 20:26:59

Its simple, open LIBRE and check all values of " beast flare" ( example) u' ll see information about : animation, target, camera etc etc, just copy every values into the red 13 limits break " sled fang" (example) , no need to change the name if you just want to test it, and same for the camera, u can take the data of any camera, what is important is the animation value.

I attempted using wallmarket but it keeps crashing as soon as I open it. Even after installing .net and vis studio. Anyway you could take a look
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-23 20:59:39
Never mind kurodas working on it. :)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kuroda Masahiro on 2014-08-23 21:02:40
I said I could have done it, I'm currently taking a break from FF7 to work on my novels.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-23 21:57:16
Oh ok kuroda. Sorry :) Jeet could you take a look? And Kuroda where you able to get any work done on the field model? If so can you send it to me? Thank ya
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: chasedark on 2014-08-23 22:47:58
For the overflow, I notice I don't get it at all when I run it in 256 colors, though that makes the models appear really horrible, it's great for things when I have to click on actual parts.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-23 22:56:25
I'll try the limits again but I'm making it up as I go. I have experience with Wallmarket but I'm not sure how to export a file with the new limits that can just be added to the kernel folder or something. At best I can save the whole thing, but it'll require everyone replace their whole kernel.bin files to install this. I'll try Libre again, I'm not sure how to replace a characters limits with another but I maybe able to figure it out.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: obesebear on 2014-08-24 02:47:49
If you figure it out please document any findings and let nfitc1 know about it. It'd be nice to have some more info on the limits.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-25 13:37:27
I configured the limits with Wallmarket. This could have been done sooner, but I was having trouble exporting the kernel file in a way the game could actually read it. Doesn't seem to work that way. They need to actually be tested to confirm everything works but I don't think it'll be an issue. Mainly just waiting on the field model files for the animations now.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-08-25 15:06:52
This is moving along nicely i see. Cant wait until this is completed.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-25 16:12:03
Ok everyone!! It's done! And tested. Seems perfect. Oh god finally. Lol. The battle model is done. I updated the link on pg1. The kernel and avatar is also in the zip. Kernel is need for the corrections to the limit breaks. The avatar is a replacement for red xiii. Let me know what you think. I really want serious criticism. I can take neg crit. We are still working on the field conversion but this is my first complete mod. I am very proud.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-08-25 17:36:09
What are you using to break apart and put together your kernel files? Because it updates the kernel, there is going to be some compatibility issues with the difficulty and story mods in the 7th Heaven catalog at first. I'll have to do a lot of patching to get everything compatible, which is just a matter of time. My summer is ending next week and back to teaching, so it'll take a bit longer to figure things out.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-25 17:45:42
It's the whole kernel folder. I have no idea how kernel patches work or anything and no one said anything about it. I literally just changed Red XIII's limits though, otherwise it's default. So it would be a small file if I can export it.

If anyone knows how that works I can just export a patch file to simplify compatibility.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-25 23:43:49
I had once the idea to use a tool which compares two files which each other (for the flevel.lgp) but it didn't work as I hoped it would.
http://sourceforge.net/p/winmerge/news/2013/02/winmerge-2140-stable-released/
Maybe it works better with the kernels because they are in the bin format. You could also ask the Dark Penguin Lord of the Sith, if he knows a good program for this undertaking.  ;)


May the Ubuntu strong in you
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-26 00:05:54
I had once the idea to use a tool which compares two files which each other (for the flevel.lgp) but it didn't work as I hoped it would.
http://sourceforge.net/p/winmerge/news/2013/02/winmerge-2140-stable-released/
Maybe it works better with the kernels because they are in the bin format. You could also ask the Dark Penguin Lord of the Sith, if he knows a good program for this undertaking.  ;)


May the Ubuntu strong in you

lol thanks Kaldarasha. It's definitely worth checking out so the model is easier to use with gameplay mods.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-26 05:07:34
I agree. Sorry I couldn't get anything done tonight. Comcast just sent an email stating the outage has been resolved and I will have internet back in the morning. So I'll be able to go full boar tomorrow night.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-26 12:21:58
cmh175>

You wasnt forced to modify the kernel, the easier and faster way, was to edit with LIBRE, and  modify the 7 red13 limits break so they match with beast flare values, i cant do it since for PC its seems that they need "ff7.exe" to open libre with, while on PSX its a file named limit mnu.

The best solution will be to give him

Limit 1> beast flare

Limit2>livewire

Limit3>nightmare

Limit4>satan slam (make the game freeze on PSX after the second part of the spell)

What change the limits visual is the " animation id ( or effect i dont remember)", i cant give you these " id" because im sure they are not the same on PSX and PC, but to figure out this just take a look with libre on beast flare limit break, look his ID , and just copy this value in " sled fang " animation id, etc.


Ofc you can just edit the kernek and swap sled fang with beast flare, but i never did it this way, i think beast flare is not powerful as a real limits break, and the camera  is fix, unlike other limits break, thats why the better way is to just modify the visual.And with this method the kernel is intouched.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-26 13:10:50
I like that idea, I'll give this a try later. When I'm done what file is actually altered than?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-26 14:51:04
For PSX this is a .MNU file, look like its doesnt exist for PC and they ask for FF7.EXE instead, i dont know what they exactly modify since i never used it for this version
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-26 14:51:48
cmh175>
And with this method the kernel is intouched.

But this means that he will create another FF7.exe. But if he can extract the changed hex code and make a hext.txt file for DLPB's launcher then it would be the best way.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-26 17:29:19
But this means that he will create another FF7.exe. But if he can extract the changed hex code and make a hext.txt file for DLPB's launcher then it would be the best way.

aaaand now I'm lost lol. I know more about modeling, I'm not much of a programmer. This sounds like a good plan, but I'm not sure how to extract ff7.exe and make a hext.txt file.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-26 17:38:27
I'm not bad at programming. I will give this all a look tonight. This ff7 programming is it's own beast entirely. I've never really looked at game programming but I do understand what Jeet and kaldarsha are saying.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-26 17:53:50
aaaand now I'm lost lol. I know more about modeling, I'm not much of a programmer. This sounds like a good plan, but I'm not sure how to extract ff7.exe and make a hext.txt file.

Libre makes changes to the exe. Basically you need to track down the offset values were different code is present. So you will write in the text file for the Hext_Launcher the offset(s) and the hex code which it should replace there.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-26 18:03:09

Libre makes changes to the exe. Basically you need to track down the offset values were different code is present. So you will write in the text file for the Hext_Launcher the offset(s) and the hex code which it should replace there.

If we can get the offset values to you would you have any free time to write the text file?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-26 22:47:50
So leet made an awesome point. Why don't I just use my animations for red werewolf and keep the original limits.
The scripts that RedXIII uses for all 7 of his Limits is only 4 animations.
Lvl 1 -
-sled fange - run on all 4's (got it)
- lunatic high - howl w/ sound (got it and might be able to look at this for understanding how to make him howl on all howl animations)

Lvl 2 -
-blood fang - run on all 4's (got it)
- stardust ray - howl (got it)

Lvl 3 -
-howling moon - jump howl (minor tweak)
- earth rave - 5 attacks (could just use the regular attack)

Lvl 4 -
-Cosmo memory - howl (got it)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: obesebear on 2014-08-26 22:56:30
I'm pretty sure the Galian Beast's skeleton structure isn't going to like using Red XIII's limit breaks. 
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-26 23:15:58
I'm pretty sure the Galian Beast's skeleton structure isn't going to like using Red XIII's limit breaks.

Exactly. Ok, so I can alter the ff7.exe to do the limits, and we have a nice long list of compatible ones, but I'll need help exporting them. I either need documentation on how to do this (even just something put together really quick) or I can pm the new .exe to someone who knows how to do it and volunteers.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-08-26 23:40:28
Maybe you need something like this?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hexcompare/
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-27 23:11:54
I got the limits done with Libre but I cant save the changes. I made a copy of ff7.exe to my desktop and opened that with the tool. I replaced the limits breaks not compatible with the new skeletons, and then hit patch ff7.exe in the file options. It doesn't do anything. How do I save my settings?

~Ok so apprently it wont save to a back up of the .exe, but it will save to the one in my game install. So it maybe done, I'll test the changed limits. Question though, what does this effect when I hit save? I have a back up of my ff7.exe, but does it alter anything else for the pc game? Can I just replace my .exe with the backup, or am I going to need to reinstall my game after this?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-28 00:21:23
I tested the limit breaks and found a few issues. First the model's size is way off. He is shoulder height with Cloud, and almost half of Vincents height. I did resize bones, but not nearly enough for that and the pieces were within the same size as the originals. I even enlarged the model 15% already. Does the model need to be enlarged again or can something else effect the models size in game? Secondly the animations need more work. I didn't check all of them but in the idle it looks like he's floating, his feet keep rising of the ground, and in the running he's about a foot of the ground. So those all need a quick look through for adjustments. The worst of it though is my altered ff7.exe crashed the game. I finally built up his limit break to test the replaced sled fang (I swapped it for Berserker Dance) and the game froze when I used it. Now if it matters, when I altered the limits I changed the animation id, and the camera options too. I figured they should match the limit being used right? I didn't test the other limit I swapped for Live Wire yet, but Berserker Dance should have worked since it belongs with the Galian Beast.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-28 01:17:42
This is just driving me nuts. I tried what I could figure out. It didn't work on my end either. I know that there are people in this forum that knows how to help us get this figured out. I think I'm going to take a break and do some other modeling and come back to this when someone can give us a direct method to fix this final issue. Tweaks I can handle no problem but this is seriously the final hurdle and we just can't figure it out. If anyone can please just throw together a tut well do all the work. Just need guidance.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-28 13:32:04
Thats why i said " use only projectile limits break "

Like beast flare, liveware, nightmare etc,

You must know when red13 use sled fang, his animation is unique, just like the fire effect around him when he run very fast, it mean if you use the runing animation of galian beast the fire effect WONT follow the galian beast but the red 13' original speed animation, to summarize , its uncompatible.

Why use berserk dance in the first place as a limits break? berserk dance is his " attack" animation, if you want to give him this as a limits break its no sense, its will just be the same as his physical attack, so just try with  beast flare for begin with. I used this for my mod and its works perfectly, i would say thats the easiest part of a mod, changing the limits break, because everything is automatic with the libre.exe

Just copy every values, ( exept the camera ) into sled fang and patch it. I never tested it for PC but this program works fine on PSX. The crash occurs when you use the limits break or at the begining of the battle?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-28 13:36:50
Crash happens when using limit breaks. Here's the big question Jeet. After getting the limits setup, how do we share this mod. We have all 26 character files rw** and we have the avatar. Once the limits are correctly configured how do we share that aspect with the community in the easiest way possible. Keep in mind I don't want to interfere with other mod installations.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-28 13:43:48
We'll need to figure out the hex file for the ff7.exe. Then it wont conflict with other mods. Otherwise sharing will be easy. For the simplest installation I'll put together an iro for 7thHeaven, so using the mod wont be difficult at all. Otherwise those who prefer direct installation with lgps will know how to install the model. 

Thought Berserker Dance would work fine since it used the Galian Beast skeleton, I didn't realize it was the same as his attack animation. I'll set it to something else than. So that should be fine and I can fix this within five minutes. I need an idea of how we put together the hex file though.

Also can the rwab file effect the models size by any chance? I have no idea why he's shorter than Cloud, the model shouldn't be much shorter than the original.

~Just did a size comparison in kimera, the Werewolf is quite bigger than the original Galian Beast.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-08-28 15:30:57
Unfortunally i cant help you about this, like i said before modding limits break for PSX seems to be easier ( look like its the only aspect more simple than for PC)

For example on playstation you only need to edit one file ,and insert it, just like you did with sjab etc. I dunno what they modify on the ff7.exe

About the size > gallian beast is a small character ( i talk about the original) i think he is even smaller than vincent human form. So thats maybe why your model is so small? Why do you need to have him having the same size than cloud for limits break since he dont use his animation? Or maybbe its because his idle animation? ( i noticed too that he was like " floating" , probably the werewolf feets are smaller than gallian beast original feets?)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-28 15:34:17
Something happened with the animation. I tried replacing it with the original one though and he still does that, just leaned over now. I have no idea why...

Really? Well damn that's probably why I guess. I guess I'll try another 50% increase than. A Werewolf shorter than Cloud isn't very imposing.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: obesebear on 2014-08-28 16:21:43
I'm fairly certain the only way the **ab file would affect height is in the case of bombs where they are told to grow.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-29 16:57:30
The model has been enlarged to near prehistorical proportions so it'll now be about Vincents height or so, and I fixed the animations so the wolf doesn't seem to float and his feet no longer stick through the ground. The limits will be completed this evening so an official release will be ready very soon. Kuroda what's the status on the field model files? Did you say they're done or are you putting them together now? When they're ready can you send them over please? That's the last real piece needed for an official release, which we'd like to do this evening if possible.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: nfitc1 on 2014-08-29 19:45:37
I'm fairly certain the only way the **ab file would affect height is in the case of bombs where they are told to grow.

It's actually their AI that tells them to grow.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-30 01:23:57
Update to show new model size. He towers over Cloud now, he's about the same height as Vincent but is as thick and muscular looking as Barret. It's pretty badass.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/1609716_249958338547331_638942905711085993_n.jpg) (https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t31.0-8/10528348_249958345213997_2892246843075282496_o.jpg)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-30 01:44:33
THAT LOOKS PERFECT!!!
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-08-30 02:42:06
Limits are all working and patched. All I have to do is extract the code into a hex. All is almost done but the good ol field models.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-08-31 01:32:26
It's looking unlikely we'll be able to make a hex file for an altered ff7.exe so manual installation will probably be required. I'm planning to go back to the idea of using Wallmarket and creating a kernel patch with the new limits. For compatibility it would be ideal to make an option for each gameplay and story mod, but there's quite a few and honestly I'm burnt out from this project. By any chance is there a tool that can automatically patch kernel.bin files? Otherwise installation will require Wallmarket to apply the patch. It's an easy enough process and directions will be provided, that's probably the best that can be done.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-01 16:18:29
There's been a lot up with the confusion of trying to export the limits to a hex file so here's a status update. The battle model is completed and I did add a compatibility patch for gameplay mods. There's something new being put together for the battle model though so just waiting to finalize that. Wolfman and I are going to have to recreate the field model conversion of Red XIII to Barret ourselves so that's now a side project of it's own, so there wont be a field model for now. Hoping for everything else to be ready fairly soon.

Installation will include a direct method for the lgps, but I seriously recommend 7thHeaven for this mod. It includes a lot of game changing files and installing another Red XIII model over top of it later on may not work correctly. So either keep backups of your files or just use the 7H version.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-09-02 07:05:57
This really has turned out to be a nightmare for the two of you hasnt it. Honestly though if people really want to use the mod bad enough then they will probably go to whatever lengths neccessary to to install it. look at how much work it is to get ffvii running in itself. install the game convert and patch it, run the bootleg program select what you want. and then you have to manually extract and repack the lgp files to add models and extras lol. FF7 modding was never the simplest task so i really don't see why installing this would be treated differently. hope you manage to get it all completed at some point.....good luck.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-02 12:54:43
Thanks man, the mod's actually done luckily. Well the battle model and limits at least, we have to recreate and mimic the original field model conversion though so Red XIII can use Barrets skeleton. We're just waiting to finalize a new idea before releasing the battle model.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-02 16:23:46
Thanks Leet. Ya its been a nightmare for cmh and just insane for me as my crazy @$$ decided this would be a good idea for my first mod ever in any game and with no 3D experience at all. Wow. But if you're bored look at the WIP thread and glance through it. I cannot believe we are where we are today after some of the things we went through. Jeet has been a hug contributor as well. I'm happy I did this first though. I've learned a lot and had I had more experience I would have probably psyched myself out of doing it because I would have known the hurdles.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-03 13:10:44
Well I just wanted to post an update for anyone following either one of the two threads. We have the WIP thread and the REL thread in graphic releases. Cmh Jeet Kaldarasha and myself have been working very hard on this project and we are nearing the end of this chapter of my books. I don't know what my next mod will be but I can assure you it won't be a complete replacement ever again. Lol.
Battle mod:: 97.5%
Sculpt and cut - 100%
Import - 100%
Texture - 95% (I will be adding some detail after the final release)
Animate - 95% (there will probably be a few tweaks in the future)

Field mod:: 92.5%
Sculpt and cut - 100%
Import - 100%
Texture - 95%
Animate - 75% (adapting to Barrett's skeleton is complete. Most of the animations have been mapped so Red uses appropriate animations for his scenes. Only a handful of animations remain. Last tweak is bending the knees backwards. Fingers crossed)

This has been an insane amount of work and learning. Thanks everyone for the patience support and input. Expected final release date - 9/12/14. If not sooner :) I hope everyone who uses Red Werewolf enjoys him. Please give feedback of any problems you may find. Thank you.

Special thanks to the developers of all the amazing tools used for this project::
zBrush
Lgp/unlgp
Kimera
Makou Reactor
Jenova Project
Pcreator
Img2tex
DLPB's hex tools
7th Heaven
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-03 14:24:12
Thanks to whoever fused my two threads. You gotten rid of the confusion. I appreciate it.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-09-03 20:19:28
9/12/14?.......before christmas then? Lol just kidding, well if its nearly done i will be able to catch up with you in other places soon  ;). Im still there but my stuff is not in general anymore. Good luck with completion buddy.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-03 20:23:45
I'd like to see this completed closer to this weekend. The field conversion is the biggest hurdle at this point and there's about 40 of 77 animations completed for the model. I think together we can wrap up the remaining 37 before long.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: MarinoKadame on 2014-09-03 20:51:41
I wish lot of other models would get a custom model in HD like that. The work that got put into this project is insane. I wonder what will be your next project once you are done with Red XIII.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-03 22:11:53
Thanks Marino. Honestly I'm going to move on to unconverted models next. This was a dream of mine but since I had no experience in 3D I didn't think I could do it. But I finally said screw it I'm doing it. But now I'm giving back to the community and doing some stuff that hasn't been done.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-04 02:51:51
After I do some unconverted models the next character I want to do is aerith.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-04 04:56:44
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/04/y6y2uzev.jpg)
By the way in case anyone was wondering I have included an avatar for the model. :)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-09-04 11:55:45
After I do some unconverted models the next character I want to do is aerith.

That would be great!!!
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-09-04 14:17:28
Nice avatar there.....just to let you know when you are ready to take it on i have an aerith model in .obj format to give you a head start. I cant discuss it on qhimm but ill send you a pm instead.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-09-04 15:13:39
I wish lot of other models would get a custom model in HD like that. The work that got put into this project is insane. I wonder what will be your next project once you are done with Red XIII.

At first we need a base where all models are HQ, then we can go on and make more projects like this.

@Wolfman
You should give a proper 3D editor a chance. ZBrush is fine for sculpting but it aims more for impressive renderers instead of creating good models for games (doesn't mean that an experienced user could better work with that). Currently your model eats a lot of space, because it's too high poly considering the detail it has. It will really help you if you learn how to make out of a cube a character model. It won't be so easy as it may is in ZBrush, but you will have a better control over the modeling process itself. I think after a while you will have a much better understanding how to create certain things in a faster way and all this will help you when you plan a Red Werewolf V2 (I have no doubts that this will be happen. It's your first work and it's great, but with more experience you will shake your head and think what have I done - that's my problem when I look at older models of my ChaOS project ;D).
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-04 15:32:10
That isn't a bad point Kaldarasha. When used for games low poly models are imported to zbrush and sculpted into high poly versions with tons of detail. Then the detail is exported using normal maps and such so they can be applied to the low poly model. What I suggest for those starting out in zbrush is to sculpt your character with as much detail as you like and then adjust the subdivision levels as low as you can without sacrificing detail. Then with zremesher (I think lol) zbrush will convert your hi res model to a low poly model with all your detail in tact. This is usually enough but you can take it a step further. Import the converted model to a traditional 3d application like Maya and adjust the geometry a bit. You'll have more control of your mesh this way. This is advanced stuff though so not something to stress about when just starting out. I'm impressed with how quickly Wolfman picked up zbrush as it's still an allusive mystery to me in many ways lol.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-04 15:47:44
There's a plugin in zBrush called decimation master. This took my 8.9 million polygon render and reduced him to 68k polys. I could have reduced him to 100 polys but with him being a werewolf, detail was crucial. I wanted to obtain as much as possible. There is far less detail in a human character. I am going to be working on an aerith model that will probably be around 12-20k. I know I can make them smaller but there's only so much a map can do. Lol. Is there a threshold in FF7 as far as how much space a character can take up? My goal is to convert all playable characters to HD high detail models. So long as the game can handle it.

All in all I think it would be awesome to have one zip file that contained all characters in the same style of art.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-04 15:58:28
For FF7, hard to say. Nothing I've seen yet at least. It's generally a good practice for other games, and with FF7 it makes mod downloads and game files smaller. But I've never seen the game crash from high poly models.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-04 16:38:43
Well then that's a go in my eyes. :) As soon as Red Werewolf Released I'm going to start on aerith. I'm going to create a HighDef Character Pack. It's gonna take a while but it's going to be EPIC!! I will also work on updates to red werewolf. I am probably going to follow the design of my avatars in my HighDef advent children avatar thread as a concept. Now this is gonna rock.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: CloudStrife668 on 2014-09-05 08:27:10
you should make cloud first before aerith it will look so much cooler
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: whitERaven on 2014-09-05 09:27:21
Nice job man.. you just gave Red an epic upgrade  8)

(http://i.imgur.com/epZcX9U.png)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-09-05 10:00:46
I'm going to create a HighDef Character Pack. It's gonna take a while but it's going to be EPIC!!
you should make cloud first before aerith it will look so much cooler
APZ's throne at risk! :P :P
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-09-05 12:09:41
Btw I have a pre-made base body, which I actually created for a new Sephiroth model. I used it for my Barrett model (which still needs a texture, :oops: so if someone thinks he can do just PM me. The model is already UV mapped except the weapon).
(http://s14.directupload.net/images/140905/87b469ti.jpg)
https://mega.co.nz/#!nE0EkLyI!xCJ0XK1XIJyeCKgzl0Ac5zfWNU2GRVrKrl8EGYfecwE
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-05 12:19:11
Cloud already has a good amount of models that are fantastic in my mind. Aeris however really only has 2. While they are good, I feel like there's a few aspects that could be improved. After aeris I am going to move to Barrett.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: whitERaven on 2014-09-05 13:04:33
but I think the one were lacking is Cid?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-05 14:42:16
Good call whitERaven. I agree. I think I'll go to Cid after Aeris.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Faendra on 2014-09-05 15:00:53
Yep cid and cait sith i think.
And What about new model for the turks, rufus, shinra and co ?
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-05 15:39:23
Ya Faendra. That's a thought too. I want to redo the main characters first then I want to work on the bad guys. I really enjoy doing this. It will probably take me a while but I really want to do this.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-05 15:43:27
I have a similar interest as well.

This is true, Cid hasn't gotten a lot of love. There's the fmv styled model from bootleg, and the HD model on my release thread by Rayved.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-05 15:51:48
CMH. I think we should pair up again on doing a complete remodel of characters so they are all in the same style. I am going to start working on collaborating the 2D concepts for the models and creat a new WIP thread. Of course Red Werewolf will be finished before I go any further, but I have some ideas already. I started my note taking for him last night. :) This mod is going to be even more epic, but I am not as worried about having to learn much as RW has taught me a good amount of every aspect of a character mod.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-05 16:25:03
I wont get into it much just yet as I need more experience with alphas and poly paint in zbrush but I'm organizing something to do just that.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-05 20:58:42
Field model conversion is complete. Packaging mod and testing this evening.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-05 22:01:28
This is the greatest news I've heard in 3 months!!
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Bosola on 2014-09-05 22:25:44
Are you guys still struggling with generating ff7.exe patch files? Bdiff and xdelta might be useful tools. There's a project named 'Xdelta UI' that provides a Windows frontend for creating and applying binary patches.

@Wolfman - I can't really help with modifying limits, I'm afraid. All I can say is that remapping animations can be a lot of hard work. Good luck all the same.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-05 22:32:37
Oh that's pretty cool thanks Bosola. The limits ended up being changed in the kernel instead. Neither of us had any idea what we were doing trying to make a hex file lol. I'll check that out though for future mods, thanks.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-05 23:21:10
Thanks Bosola
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-09-06 01:11:14
hi, this is my field Aerith (flower, parachute, wheelchair), I have graduated and are working so I don't have time to continue mod. Please feel free to use my models ^v^!
https://mega.co.nz/#!VEARWYTR!Ov2YhQ5pkQpl_D3dKs4BJyZUebQs0ORqFy3hfjEAqiQ
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-07 00:20:00
 I have 5 animations to do and then I will make my official release. Battle model is done. Field Model is done. Animations are done. The 5 animations to fix are actually just replacements, as he uses the wrong animation in a few scenes.

The only tweaks I really want to make is altering the texture to look better and bending the legs like a werewolf for the field model.

YAY!!!!!!! It's almost done. I can't believe it. Learned a lot. Can't wait to do more.

Had some issues with Kimera and Makou Reactor. Pushing release date back to thursday
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-09-08 18:31:36
So how your mod is doing? Cmh175  told me that u need a transformation system ( having red13 transform in the begining of the battle in werewolf) i noticed that if you dont use directly the model, his texture wont appear, i think because vincents transformations have no texture ( chaos, death gigas etc) so when using the  transformation script, the texture are not loaded, this isnt noticable when u transform into a monster/boss (because they dont have texture or very small ones most of times), but on ur werewolf character if you have made some textures they wont appear, so thats a problem.

Textures are most of times the " eyes" or tatoos etc, of the characters on PSX, i dont know how its works on PC.

So if you still want red13 to transform into werewolf in battle, this issue must be fixed

Another thing: this glitch dont occurs when the character is in 1st position ,in that case the character will have all his texture working, if someone have any idea about this....
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-08 18:36:11
The transformation was a back up plan in case the field animation conversions didn't work out. Other than a few quirks to adjust in the flevel now that worked out fine. The transformation would be a cool idea as an additional option for those who just want to use the battle model, but if it's proving to be a lot more trouble than we thought than it's certainly not necessary. 
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-09-08 18:45:07
yes thats what i understood, you suggest that in case of field problems, but i confirm that it will make the mod really more complicated to install, specially if werewolf use texture ( i dunno if texture are implented in the 3d model for PC but thats not the case on PSX)

So u managed to have a full working field model? that sounds good
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-08 20:22:25
Yes we did. It is totally awesome and hopefully I will have these final few animations fixed and ready soon. I am also asking anyone who uses him to please let me know of any problems you find.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-10 05:40:33
He's all DONE!! We will be finalizing the iro tomorrow and making the first official release tomorrow!!! Thank you to everyone. Especially for your patience. Heres a sneak peak. :) Enjoy. Again let me know if anything is found that needs altering.
http://youtu.be/1Vocucf-Xdo (http://youtu.be/1Vocucf-Xdo)
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-09-10 09:28:45
Really nice! Not sure if it's the fps drop while capturing but there seems like a bit of lag between the animations and the hits while he attacks look a bit de-synced with the sound effects. Maybe it's my idea since I got used to the original Red XIII animations but it looks great overall! Well done to all!
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-10 12:30:18
Thanks leonhart.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jeet on 2014-09-11 20:53:14
Nice one, converting the field model musthave been a pain, make me know if the limits breaks have some camera issues i can fix it.

About the sound impact when red13 attack, this is normal , its the same as gallian beast ( i copy pasted it from the model) so its not a problem with the video or anything, this is just the way gallian beast hit

ps: not sure about it but there is a small glitch making the fire effect of the limits break when red13 use "sense", i dont remember if i fixed it on my last update.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-11 22:38:19
Yes Jeet you fixed it. I will be uploading the official release tonight or tomorrow if you want to take a look at the camera angles on the limits. That would be awesome.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-12 15:16:29
Great job leet. Getting the knees bent for battle and field model!!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/12/barumune.jpg)

We are a small set back. We need to get the flevel adjusted for all game play mods. Aerith Revival (all versions), nightmare, new threat, hardcore and boss rush. If anyone has the flevels and could send them to me this would be a great help. Otherwise I will have to install each one and that will take a long time.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-09-12 23:12:35
Glad to help wolfman, he does look very badass with the legs like that more werewolf and less like a man lol. its a shame that its so complicated for you but i can definitely see why it has taken so long. I struggled to keep kimera going last night due to the shear texture sizes and amounts lol. Bordes program really hates it.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-13 02:45:12
Yeah I converted and assembled the field model mostly in plain white and added the textures outside of kimera, directly in the rsd files.

Just a heads up as a possible issue may arise. The Red Werewolf is really about half a graphical and gameplay mod due to the files necessary for the mod to work. For compatibility I put together a gameplay mod patch for the gameplay mod iro in the Qhimm catalog, otherwise the Red Werewolf will overwrite the majority of gameplay mod files. This does mean that parts of each gameplay mod (or at least the ones that required patching) are included with patches so the Red Werewolf will function correctly without disrupting anything. This is purely for compatibility so no one has to pick and choose. You are still required to install the gameplay mod of your choice directly or through 7H, as this mod is not a replacement for any of them. I'd send out pms to different authors, but I'm not even sure how many there are as the list of gameplay mods in the iro is quite long. If anyone has questions or seriously rejects having their mod included in the compatibility patch just pm either Wolfman or me and we'll see what we can do.   

What was actually done:

I unzipped the iro from the catalog. Red XIII's limits were altered in the kernel using Walmarket, so I exported a patch file and applied it to each gameplay mod. Changing nothing other than Red XIII's limit settings.

For the field model some animations don't transfer over exactly the same so some are being edited in the flevel, mainly three scenes. As we don't want to overwrite these particular scenes from the gameplay mods the animation alterations are being added to the flevels and these three scene ids are being exported alone. Nothing else is touched.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-13 18:11:56
This does mean that parts of each gameplay mod (or at least the ones that required patching) are included with patches so the Red Werewolf will function correctly without disrupting anything. This is purely for compatibility so no one has to pick and choose.

I unzipped the iro from the catalog. Red XIII's limits were altered in the kernel using Walmarket, so I exported a patch file and applied it to each gameplay mod. Changing nothing other than Red XIII's limit settings.

Nobody mentioned anything to me about changing the kernel. I update the scene.bin and kernel quite regularly to fix issues or add new stuff. A second kernel where changes have to be transferred across each time isn't something I'm wild about (unless you can patch limit breaks on their own in 7H? How would that work for synching the scene.bin?) I'm also not sure what you mean by including patches with the gameplay mod files either; does that mean making direct alterations to the NT Mod's core files rather than the werewolf mod being it's own separate patch that's applied higher up in the load order, handing down the three field files and char.lgp/battle.lgp files? Not sure what you mean by 'no-one has to pick and choose'.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-13 18:32:13
Nobody mentioned anything to me about changing the kernel. I update the scene.bin and kernel quite regularly to fix issues or add new stuff. A second kernel where changes have to be transferred across each time isn't something I'm wild about (unless you can patch limit breaks on their own in 7H? How would that work for synching the scene.bin?) I'm also not sure what you mean by including patches with the gameplay mod files either; does that mean making direct alterations to the NT Mod's core files rather than the werewolf mod being it's own separate patch that's applied higher up in the load order, handing down the three field files and char.lgp/battle.lgp files? Not sure what you mean by 'no-one has to pick and choose'.

Crap, I had not thought about the NT mod still being in development. The other gameplay mods seem to be in their final state. Editing the limit breaks was tiring and frustrating since we couldn't figure out how to make a hex file after editing the limits in the ff7.exe. So I lost patience and did them in walmarket which is a lot easier. The problem is I cant seem to export a single file that the game can read that changes just Red XIII's limits, it has to be a whole kernel. So the compatibility patch has the vanilla kernel with the limit break changes patched and I did the same for every other kernel in the gameplay iro. Otherwise the Red Werewolf would just overwrite gameplay mods in 7H or direct installs.

The scene.bin isn't touched by the Red Werewolf so it's not included. In 7H the Red Werewolf is placed above the gameplay mod so the compatible kernel's are used, but everything else is used from the gameplay iro. Models, entire flevels, scene.bins, none of that is included and still required from the original mods. At this point the only other alternative is the mod released with the kernel patch file I did that'll require being manually added to the installed kernel. This also means that the gameplay mod cant be installed through 7H, not without being unzipped and patched first. Changing Red XIII into a werewolf is almost on the same level as reviving Aeris.   

If you update the mod regularly how is the gameplay iro kept up to date? Patching the mod with the Werewolf changes just requires us to download the new kernel, apply kernel patch, and rezip the new Werewolf iro. It'll be included in the Qhimm catalog too so updates will be automatically downloaded and installed so no one has to manually update. Updates can be managed every/every other week fairly easily since it's a five minute process.

~Actually I did come up with an alternative if the gameplay compatibility patch doesn't seem acceptable. Though it relieves heavily on someone volunteering to create the hex file for the new limits. It'll leave the kernel alone. Animation changes how ever require type 1 chunk files in 7H, so it'll change script and model settings. Dialogue wont be effected. The necessary scenes are Hojo's Lab when Red XIII attacks Hojo, meeting President Shinra in his office, and Greeting Rufus in Junon before getting on the cargo ship. I doubt gameplay mods have any script edits for these scenes, so this is the best alternative that doesn't' involve any files from other mods.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-13 19:01:32
If you update the mod regularly how is the gameplay iro kept up to date? Patching the mod with the Werewolf changes just requires us to download the new kernel, apply kernel patch, and rezip the new Werewolf iro. It'll be included in the Qhimm catalog too so updates will be automatically downloaded and installed so no one has to manually update. Updates can be managed every/every other week fairly easily since it's a five minute process.

I don't actually have a copy of the gameplay iro at all so it's very likely not up to date (Alyza made it, with help from Kalderasha I think). Before today I thought that the NT Mod had been temporarily removed from 7H but from the sound of things it's still there. If you or Wolfman are willing to keep a second kernel up to date then that's fine, but you might need to copy the scene.bin while making a new iro and synch it with the Wolf Kernel to make sure it doesn't fall out of whack.

I'm hoping that 1.2 is much more stable than the older one and doesn't need constant updates but maybe wait a week or two after 1.2 goes out before making a wolf patch for it so I can get any problems sorted out with the new stuff that's going in.
Title: Re: [REL] Red Werewolf
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-09-14 18:51:35
I don't actually have a copy of the gameplay iro at all so it's very likely not up to date (Alyza made it, with help from Kalderasha I think). Before today I thought that the NT Mod had been temporarily removed from 7H but from the sound of things it's still there. If you or Wolfman are willing to keep a second kernel up to date then that's fine, but you might need to copy the scene.bin while making a new iro and synch it with the Wolf Kernel to make sure it doesn't fall out of whack.

I'm hoping that 1.2 is much more stable than the older one and doesn't need constant updates but maybe wait a week or two after 1.2 goes out before making a wolf patch for it so I can get any problems sorted out with the new stuff that's going in.

I forgot to edit it out of the xml before the release, sorry. Long hours at night can make me very tired and forgetful sometimes :| Do you want me to try and do a silent update through the MetaVersion tag and have it disappear until 1.2? It's up to you.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf (2014-09-03)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-14 21:06:11
Don't worry about it, you did me a big favour by putting the xml together in the first place. If it causes trouble to remove it then it's no bother, but if possible then I'd appreciate it. The biggest problem is that some of the variables in the older build aren't functioning correctly which led to people being locked out from stuff they'd unlocked which needed a messy fix that unlocked everything in one go. It's been fixed now, but I can't remember if it was in the 7H version at the time.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf (2014-09-03)
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-15 15:12:12
Well looks like we're getting stuff wrapped up. Sorry I've been away. Should be looking at an official release this week. Knees are already bent thanks to Leet. We're getting 2 chunks of info to wrap into the 7H file. Once completed we will be just moments away!! Thanks for the patience everyone.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf (2014-09-03)
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-16 20:37:16
He's done!! 1st official release is now live. Check him out please!

Check out post #1 for ReadMe and Links (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15287.0)

Please let me know if you see anything out of whack.  ;D
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-16 23:09:55
Played through a few more scenes outside of our testing scope, looking good man. Glad to see this finally completed.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-09-16 23:32:59
Very well done to you both for getting this mammoth task finished. Im actually taking a bit of time out to play through the game so i will run this at the same time if i spot anything unusual i will let you know  :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-16 23:37:21
That's great thanks man, that's exactly what the werewolf needs. Particular scenes were Red XIII plays a big part and uses animations other than the norm (walk, run, and idle) have been checked and edited but to really perfect the mod it'll need a full play through. So if you guys see anything odd post the issue and where in the game you saw it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-09-17 01:57:34
Well done! Way for more now! Modding to the max!
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-17 12:28:19
Thanks Leonhart.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-09-18 05:48:14
Congrats!

Just a small note on the installation. I would use the Import button to put it into 7H, rather than manually placing it into the 7H Library folder. In my tests, this will cause the ID tag to display in front of the mod name and it's confusing to new users what that mess of letters and numbers mean.

I'll add this to the catalog this week :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-18 11:55:49
Thanks EQ. This is my first time talking with you. I appreciate everything you have done.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-09-18 13:11:21
Congrats!

Just a small note on the installation. I would use the Import button to put it into 7H, rather than manually placing it into the 7H Library folder. In my tests, this will cause the ID tag to display in front of the mod name and it's confusing to new users what that mess of letters and numbers mean.

I'll add this to the catalog this week :)

Is that something new with the recent versions of 7H? I've always just pasted iro's into the library. Importing them just seems to make a copy of it in the library for you (which is nice for those who aren't as familiar with it) but it takes longer, particularly for larger mods. I haven't really seen a difference, other than the imported mods have a serial number or something added to the name inside the library folder. Either way I'd say the best install method will be the catalog so you just have to hit download to install it, and updates can be applied automatically.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-23 15:29:08
I've been working on another import project  and havent had time yet to start my first run through since i was 13. Has anyone gotten a chance to play around with Red Werewolf? Just curious if anything has been spotted that needs adjusting. Thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-09-23 21:12:50
I did add the legs i adjusted in to the 7th heaven iro and ran through a couple of scenes and i like it. you did a good job definitely something that everyone should try.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-23 21:21:17
Thanks leet.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: meesbaker on 2014-10-08 07:13:06
This mod really makes me think about grabbing the pc version from steam. Stuff like this sure is impressive and just pure creativeness.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-10-08 12:03:15
Thanks meesbaker. A lot of people and work was involved.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-11-05 22:24:48
Hello everyone. Long time no see. I just want to let everyone know, I've been hard at work with a version 2 of Red Werewolf. Now called WereXIII. I have been working with Leet and Jusete. Leet is a little known modder, but let me tell you. His work is genius. Together we perfected the model of a biped Red XIII and using the previous skeleton we already created from version 1 Leet is about finished with the import. Leet has done all the import work and it has not been an easy one, let me tell you. This thing is a masterpiece. I hope you all like it. Updates coming soon on a battle release and then a field conversion. :::ENJOY:::
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/bradhowlett1/Capture_zps26a02da8.png)
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/bradhowlett1/Capture2_zps522300f6.png)
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2014-11-06 00:53:18
Wow!!! A masterpiece indeed! Wonderful work WolfMan!
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-11-06 02:48:41
Very cool. I look forward to adding it to the 7H catalog :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-11-06 03:26:40
Thanks guys. The import shouldnt take much longer. Just the hands and thighs left.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2014-11-06 05:43:44
Just the jaw actually lol. Ive completed everything else and its looking good.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-11-06 17:13:15
Check here for future updates on WereXIII
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15720.0 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15720.0)
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-05 22:19:32
Is it required to replace kernel.bin and kernel2.bin of my hardcore modd install with the ones in this archive ?
Abd if so, why ?
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: cmh175 on 2015-01-06 00:05:47
Yes, bc otherwise the game will crash when you use any of Red XIII's limit breaks. Other than the necessary files nothing is changed so itll play the same way. Since you're overwriting core game files the 7H version is recommended.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-09 06:56:45
I tried redwolf for tyhe first time. When I fight the first boss with him, the specimen in shinra's buildings, I was surprised by his new lvl1 limit !
900 damage to all oponents ! It's a lot, compared to his original limit
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: WolfMan on 2015-01-09 13:11:45
Which model are you using. The were lion or wolf? Just curious. The limit of 900hp is a little high maybe but he is a werewolf. Lol
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-09 20:19:12
I downloaded this file : Red Werewolf.7z, and installed the mod with direct version, no 7th heaven, all works great.
I didn't know there is 2 models lol
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Jahiliyyah on 2015-09-02 18:24:07
I really like the new proportions. The last one suffered a lot when you tried to get the skeleton working.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Leet on 2015-09-02 22:05:54
Hi jahiliyyah. I did my absolute best when importing the model onto the skeleton so I am glad you like the end result.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Warwaff on 2020-04-10 08:26:35
Heya,

Sorry to thread necro, but I figured this would probably be the best thread to bump about having an issue with this mod.

I'm running 7th Heaven v2.0.3.406.

My current mods are, in order of loading:
Miscellaneous - Qh imm Catalog
Animations - Qhimm Catalog
Battle Models - Qhimm Catalog (Set to 5 - WolfMan - Red Werewolf)
Tsunamods Avalanche Arisen Battle Textures
Battle Textures - Qhimm Catalog
Field Models - Qhimm Catalog (Wolfman - Red Werewolf + Vanilla)
Field Textures - Qhimm Catalog
Gameplay - Qhimm Catalog
Media - Qhimm Catalog
Spell Textures - Qhimm Catalog
Enhanced Stock UI-rel2
ESUI Controller Addon
User Interface - Qhimm Catalog
World Models - Qhimm Catalog
World Textures - Qhimm Catalog


I have the character portrait set as well - though I didn't at first. So uh. In a nutshell, Red is planking, sliding around, and attempting to floss over Hojo, and seriously contorting his vertebrae in the world map. In battle, he's uh. He looks like he got in a fight with a woodchipper and lost. I was streaming when it happened, you can view the issue here, https://youtu.be/UOoQmM83_EQ?t=4640 It looks like Hojo seriously messed the poor little guy up. Also, the moment where he pops back up onto both legs and gripes about not liking two-legged things was kind of golden and his claim to have been acting as he spun like a top was rather utterly entertaining.


Joking aside, I think this particular mod may need to be split back out into its own IRO to do its own animation+model+other overrides because it looks like something is partially pre-empting it. Does anyone have the original, not-combined IRO kicking around anywhere? I tried to Google and find a link to an old catalog, but I'm having no luck!

Any help would be appreciated!
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kyofu1020 on 2020-04-26 08:20:42
Similar issue, sorry but I did not watch the entirety of the segment, but I actually can't see the new model at all. Honestly, the battle model looks....... well, to put it bluntly, like an amalgamation of another person's version, this one, and a few Flans. No head to speak of, and it kind of is creepy. Additionally, the model continues to fight like old Red, not the Red you showed. So.... I'm just a little creeped out and more worried that I won't get to see the real product.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kyofu1020 on 2020-04-26 21:01:42
Okay, I figured out the issue with the battle model. All I know is that I messed with the settings of the other battle models, world models, field models, reinstalled 7th Heaven, reinstalled the mods I had, and tried again. The result was a very nice looking Werelion Red XIII. At the same time, I believe this has to do with choosing models that are consistent with the other characters. Shortly after I found this, I made Aerith's model be unchanged, reloaded the game, and the game was in it's old graphics. After I changed it back, it looked right. I haven't gone back to the introduction of Red XIII, but I'm guessing there might be a similar issue dealing with the field models. Might get to it later tonight, depends.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Red Werewolf
Post by: Kyofu1020 on 2020-04-27 08:19:42
Okay, so I tried again, the field model works (I say works, but I mean that it's animations probably don't always work because my game does the same thing Warwaff's game did, but as I went further, the model did it's own animations, with a few.... yoga lessons....) for the most part, but the battle model is affected by other characters' battle models, field models, and/or something else. If you are experiencing an issue with the battle model, reset the settings of the model mods and see what works with it. The biggest thing I've found with it is to try to let the battle model lead you. For me, I fiddled around with models to see why Red was looking bad. Specifically, I kept Red in my party after I left Midgar, saved, and got into a random battle. If the model looked bad, I quit and looked at my mods again. My mods are very similar to your's (Warwaff's), but I did take out a few things or add (too tired to look). I've gotten it working, but I would like an improvement to the field model at some point.