Author Topic: [FF7R] Remake Discussion & News  (Read 91800 times)

Izban

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #225 on: 2020-03-15 23:40:07 »
Your not wrong about nostalgia going both ways, there a plenty of people praising basic mechanics like the map and interactive environments as if they aren't things that should be expected at this stage of gaming technology, there are also plenty of people who are in the original can do no wrong so everything new is bad camp.

I'm very much in the play the damn game before you make your decision camp the demos only like 8gb and in my opinion it should give you a fair idea if your gonna want to play/spend on the full game, what I have a problem with is the bashing of something before you've even tried with an open mind.

I will say this though I really wouldn't call it an action RPG, I would call it a tactical action game at least on normal mode

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #226 on: 2020-03-16 18:08:31 »
I just finished the demo, and I don't like it.  But then, I didn't like FF7 to begin with.  Still, was anyone asking for Final Fantasy 7 to be turned into a Dynasty Warriors/Kingdom Hearts amalgamation?  The battle system is deeper than "hammer Square until thing dies", but the problem is "hammer Square until thing dies" works WAY too well for every enemy in the demo except the boss... Who is an annoying fucker because the battle system doesn't allow for the kind of indicators the ATB system used to, meaning that most of the battle is "hang back until the boss is vulnerable, and then hit him hard for a few minutes"...
I have a suspicion that unless you prefer this kind of combat, most fans of the original FF7 are going to pull the new HQ cutscenes from this sucker and load them into the old engine...

I for one hate the Dynasty Warriors games.. That's why i never liked the One Piece games and always wanted a proper fighting game with realistic characters in that world.

Anyway, i do think the new FF7 Remake looks fun to play, but i haven't played the demo yet- just been watching at least five different playthroughs on Youtube. I kind of like the look of things. And i absolutely loved the original ATB-system. Unlike FF8 and FF9 i always enjoyed FF7's materia-system more.

Dynasty Warriors sucks because it's just slashing at multiple enemies without any thought or need of strategy..

I actually do like Kingdom Hearts 2 though, but Kingdom Hearts 1 had way worse battle mechanics than number 2. I had almost finished the game when i managed to delete my save..

Point is that FF7R is looking great- and i hate Dynasty Warriors.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-16 18:10:40 by mr_nygren »

Dark Phoenix

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #227 on: 2020-03-16 18:17:32 »
And I don't think anyone has ever made a serious argument for a carbon-copy remake with improved graphics only. Mayyyybeee 15 years ago, but not now.
Seriously, how many times will peeps spout this? I've lost count over how many times I've seen these "You just want the same game with updated graphics" claims. xD

I could probably go for the same game with updated graphics, but that might be because I'm tired of SE treating the turn-based battle systems like the ferning plague...
The whole reason there's a nostalgia wave running through gaming right now is BECAUSE so many companies ignore what worked in the past in order to chase the current leader, and SE is the WORST when it comes to that.  It's the reason there hasn't been a good Final Fantasy in over a decade...

Anyway, i do think the new FF7 Remake looks fun to play, but i haven't played the demo yet- just been watching at least five different playthroughs on Youtube. I kind of like the look of things. And i absolutely loved the original ATB-system. Unlike FF8 and FF9 i always enjoyed FF7's materia-system more.

I always thought that 9 had the best system.  It's much harder to abuse unless you absolutely GRIND for support ability gems later in the game...

Dynasty Warriors sucks because it's just slashing at multiple enemies without any thought or need of strategy..

Depends on which version you play.  And some of the anime variations are much better at avoiding the whole "hit same button to win" thing.  My preferred Warriors game, to be honest, is Berserk & The Band Of The Hawk... Mostly because when you're playing as Guts, you EXPECT to be able to mow down legions of soldiers.  They don't call him the "Hundred Man Slayer" for nothing...

Point is that FF7R is looking great- and i hate Dynasty Warriors.

I couldn't stand playing Kingdom Hearts really past the first town, because I hate mindless button mashers.  And going through the demo, that's what this felt like.  Yeah, periodically you have to cast spells or use abilities because a particular enemy won't just go down to slashing, but it never felt like I got out of the "mash attack to win" mindset.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-16 18:22:43 by Dark Phoenix »

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #228 on: 2020-03-16 18:27:31 »
I am rather surprised on a lot of the comments about FF7:R. For years people have been wanting a remake and now that we have seen game play, screenshots, renders, etc. all people can do is criticize it to pieces, and there are a ton of people making assumptions relating to things we have not even seen yet.

TBH i think its rather shocking. I am a fan of the original game and the whole series and when SE finally announced the remake i was all excited. The episodic nature of the release is one i do not mind. ask yourself this, would you rather wait another 4, 5, 6, 7 or more years for a remake? or be able to play a remake a lot sooner.

As for the changes to the combat system, its to be expected that there would be a change, and tbh, i personally like the hybrid system they have in the demo. It give a modern spin to it while having some throw backs to the turn-based system at the same time. Sure not everyone is going to like it, and making a game you really cannot please everyone as everyone will have their own take/spin/thoughts/ideas how things are to be done/written/designed/etc. The new battle system was really easy to get into while still feeling satisfied that they have not forgotten the roots of the core game.

The remake is larger in size because of how games have evolved since the original and the fact that they are adding voice acting to the game just makes that even more so the case along side higher quality textures, lighting, models, animations, etc.

Ask yourself, What is a game remake to you?

"Ask yourself, What is a game remake to you?"

Well, a remake to me would have been the same game with only new graphics originally. What Square-Enix is doing now is a re-boot of Final Fantasy VII, and not really a simple remake like the name suggested.

Because ask yourself what a remaster is to you? It's not a game with chibi-models, or is it? I'd say the Remaster was disappointing- i'd much rather play the PC version using the NinoStyle models - and if NinoStyle ever completes the full game with those battle-models that would be a true remaster, or is that a remake?

If Square-Enix's remaster is a remaster, then the mod would be the remake with the same game and new models- and the FF7R is a Re-Boot of the entire franchise.

At the end of the day i didn't want the old game with better resolution like in the official Remaster, but i did always want the old game with better models- best of all if they looked like on the art by Nomura himself -or like in the FMV-videos - NinoStyle and Kaldarasha have made this a reality for the PC-version of FF7 and i just wish all the models had both styles. Especially NinoStyle's style which is the same as the original anime art.

The Remaster with the old chibi models is not good enough, and the Remake is very different- i'm certainly going to love the Remake but when i first heard Remake i thought of an official version of the mods with even better graphics but the same old game.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-16 19:00:05 by mr_nygren »

Dark Phoenix

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #229 on: 2020-03-16 18:35:45 »
I want FF7:R to be a massive hit because I want more remakes like what they are doing with FF7:R and new titles too.

I don't, because more often than not, when SE remakes a game to this level, they fuck things up that didn't need to be fucked up.

-Ric-

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #230 on: 2020-03-16 19:20:50 »
I couldn't stand playing Kingdom Hearts really past the first town, because I hate mindless button mashers. 

That's very untrue. Button-mashing will get you nowhere in KH unless you're playing on Easy difficulty. Critical Mode and even Proud Mode will force you to be strategic or get 2-shotted by even regular weak enemies.

Mabinog

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #231 on: 2020-03-16 19:22:39 »
That's very untrue. Button-mashing will get you nowhere in KH unless you're playing on Easy difficulty. Critical Mode and even Proud Mode will force you to be strategic or get 2-shotted by even regular weak enemies.

This guy gets it.

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #232 on: 2020-03-16 19:25:51 »
Personally, for a remake, I want to see an evolution of the game, I want something more brought to the table, i want a different experience playing the game that is different to the last 38 times i have played the original with and without mods and i want more detail to the story line. I don't want them to change the battle system between episodes/parts/chapters/whatever name you want to put to it, i want the battle system to be the same across all parts to keep that feel though out the whole experience. I hope it comes to PC to have the chance to mod it like the original

I have played every FF game there and completed them all, some more times than others, i have my favorites and there are some that i just despise, the ones i like, some people don't like and some that i despise some people love. Not everyone is the same. I own every FF title released (legitimately) and on multiple platforms from NES to current gen console and PC regardless if i like them or not because i am a fan of the franchise and I want more FF games so i show my support with my money. All i know is that i want more Final Fantasy and if it means remakes of originals i don't care, i will play though them regardless and would like to see FF8 and FF9 get the same treatment some day.

I want FF7:R to be a massive hit because I want more remakes like what they are doing with FF7:R and new titles too. I get that some people are not happy with the remake and its impossible to please everyone, it will also bring more of an audience to the franchise and i am sure people have been playing FF7 for the 1st time because of the remake, in turn generating more money for SE. what i do know is that if they feel that continuing will be too much of a hassle than its worth due to the backlash of the fan base they will just decide to stop and we can only blame the fan base if that does happen,

Some of the anger on here between old Tifa and new Tifa, Barrett with glasses or without glasses, old battle system vs. new battle system, i just find it a little petty. its just evolution of change, if you make something now and then make it again in 20 years time, you will make it different because you learned new things since, you have discovered how to improve it based on your own ideas, evolve it based on new technologies, etc. That's what SE are doing for FF7:R

I see no point in writing it off and calling it a failure till i have seen what they have done overall. I will give it a chance, i am open minded and will play though it regardless if it is a disappointment or not. At least i am willing to accept change and give it a fighting chance.

I agree with the decision to improve upon the original, expand upon the games story and locations etc- i always thought it should have been even more grand in scale. I also wanted them to add multiplayer so you could play with friends in the battles, for example having friends controlling the other characters- but that might not work too well in the ordinary story. But in the Gold Saucer area they should in my opinion add a VS mode for multiplayer duels. The battle-arena but versus other players as well. Also, i always thought it would be cool to play as the villains as well- some sub-story where you control the bad-guys would be awesome! So i wholeheartedy agree with you on not wanting the exact same game- even though i would have loved that as well.  I can't really play FF7 too many times, it's my first PC-game that i ever played - and it's the best FF period.

I 100% agree with you that they should keep the battle-system the same throughout the entirety of the original FF7 story. I wouldn't want the other parts to feel like different games. At least not when it comes to the battle-system - of course they should be different in terms of story and world building. The world map will be very interesting, and how you will travel the world on a Chocobo now. Will they make the world detailed and huge? Or keep smaller areas like the Chocobo Farm and Kalm? It would make sense to turn Kalm into a city in itself, and make everything bigger- i did always think everything but Midgar looked so small. Wutai being the only major contender to the Shinra besides Fort Condor.

Absolutely, a PC-port is a must for the game to have any chance of surviving as long as the old game has. And unless they add DLC for character costumes i believe it's needed for us who'd want the traditional clothes on the characters.

I haven't owned all the FF games.. I used to own Playstation CD's with FF1-2, FF6, FF7, FF8 and FF9, i do own FF7 on PC, i do own FFX on the PS2, FFX-2 on the PS2, FFXII on the PS2, FFXII on the PS4, i own Ehrgeiz for the PSX which is a fighting game from 1998 with FF7 characters- and i do own FF7 Crisis Core on the PSP, FF Dissidia (all of the games- but i disliked the PS4 version due to not being exactly like the PSP-titles -especially that it didn't have 1 VS 1 and also no RPG-styled combat that i used in the Duodecim12.). Only FF7 game i really dislike is the Dirge of Cerberus game because it ruined Hojo's original story by having him survive.

I didn't play all these games though- the games i finished were only the PSONE titles. But i liked FFXII in the sense that i couldn't stop playing. But after i finally shut it down i never returned. It had the power to keep me at the screen when i had it on though. I wasn't a big fan of the combat but i found the story fascinating at the time- i bought it on release.

I also do own the bradygames strategy guides of FF7, FF8 and FF12. So while i am not as big a Final Fantasy fan as you- i am a hardcore FF7 fan. I owned FFXIII as well but i didn't like the game. It lacked an open world and you could only go one way.. It sucked in comparison to FFXII even though it had better battle-mechanics. The PSX-games were superior. FFX had too many videos playing all the time. I enjoyed in the older titles that videos were rare. That made them something to look forward to. Unlike you i don't feel like i do need to play all the titles.. I simply play them if they're good. I've thought about playing FF6 because it seemed really good, and i love it's music- but i just can't stand old graphics. Even though i am from the SNES generation.. But back then i played Mario and Donkey Kong Country- FF7 was the first FF game i ever played. Final Fantasy 8 deserves a remake as well.

I also want the new FF7R to be a massive hit. Because otherwise we won't get the full story and that's what i don't like about the episodic nature of releasing the game- in my opinion they should have waited for three more years and released all three CD's at once. Because we're risking the first game to flop- resulting in us never getting the later parts. The whole game would have been better off sold at once even if that meant a longer waiting time.

Yes, i'm also worried there won't be a part 2 and part 3 if the first game doesn't do well enough.. But the demo has gotten well received by fans and new players alike.

Finally i don't support the style change of characters. They looked good already, especially in the case of Tifa- the only one i have a problem with to be honest, because she was gorgeous in the original. They've made her less attractive which is a minus. The black clothing beneath the white clothes especially. Just change her back to the original in my opinion. Let her have bare legs.. That's a clear minus for the Remake as i always wanted art-Tifa in modern graphical quality- or FMV-Tifa.

« Last Edit: 2020-03-16 19:45:50 by mr_nygren »

Dark Phoenix

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #233 on: 2020-03-16 20:41:12 »
I also want the new FF7R to be a massive hit. Because otherwise we won't get the full story and that's what i don't like about the episodic nature of releasing the game- in my opinion they should have waited for three more years and released all three CD's at once. Because we're risking the first game to flop- resulting in us never getting the later parts. The whole game would have been better off sold at once even if that meant a longer waiting time.

Yes, i'm also worried there won't be a part 2 and part 3 if the first game doesn't do well enough..

No chance.  SE has been saving this bullet for a LONG time...

Izban

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #234 on: 2020-03-17 02:09:12 »
Are we seriously talking about the same game, here like yeah original was a pretty dope game, but you can't really say that with all the re-translating you've personally done that the original English script was amazing or grind until you where to boss then press X to win gameplay was really that spectacular.

Ff7 was amazing because of 3 things, the graphic(got outdated damn quick) the over arching story(not the original script) and the material system(which was bugged to hell)

The gameplay wasn't spectacular nor were the battles difficult to the point you can finish it cloud,solo no leveling, with fairly limited experience.

This is coming from someone who loved the original in all its glorious innovative buggy mess, in retrospect however it's the greatest rpg ever made it's not even the best square made rpg (6 is better fight me)

Dlpb you are the minority, childishly choosing to not even give a game a chance like a toddler that won't eat broccoli cause it's green.  the majority are just happy that we are getting a game that plays well that expands on the previous existing story with the character we love brought back in glorious hd.

Fyi they haven't changed any of the primary story plot points, they have adjusted the midgar pacing for it to be more cohesive, with better justification for the actions taken

Mabinog

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #235 on: 2020-03-17 02:27:43 »
Within 4 years we could have had an updated, glorious looking pre-rendered style FF7 with additions and changes along the lines of Qhimm mods.

You really think a multi-million dollar company like Square would use the mods on a tiny forum barely anybody knows about? If you're talking about inspiration or ideas, then yeah, maybe, but taking the actual mods and putting them in the game? Zero chance.

And remakes don't tend to use pre-rendered backgrounds. The Resident Evil remake did it, but that's the only example I can think of.

Mabinog

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #236 on: 2020-03-17 03:34:18 »
"along the lines of"

Does not mean

"use Qhimm stuff".

I'm not sure why you think it does?

Also, as numerous people keep repeating - nobody wanted a 1:1 update.  They wanted a graphical update, the style and gameplay keeping the same, but clear flaws like AI / bugs / bad translation to be resolved.  I never wanted this crap we've got here and I never did.  What we're getting isn't a remake - it's a total reboot.  And in parts just for a laugh.

Oh okay. I misunderstood.

Izban

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #237 on: 2020-03-17 04:40:33 »
Use of qhimm stuff has already happened....aali driver, 1.04patch, the spirit/mag def fix, just not models animations or textures

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #238 on: 2020-03-17 06:34:13 »
Use of qhimm stuff has already happened....aali driver, 1.04patch, the spirit/mag def fix, just not models animations or textures

He didn't say that Square should use Qhimm-stuff..

He said that he wanted the Remake to aim for the same goals as the Qhimm mods- improvements upon the original including re-translations, graphics, better AI.

In other words the original game with modern quality-of-life changes. And i'd never buy the remaster when i have the Qhimm mods that looks a million times better.

What Dlpb meant is that the Remake could have been like a mod but better in every area that mods are improving. Instead Square went for a Reboot- meaning it's a different game than the original, with different graphical style as well.

We original fans mostly wanted just a graphical update when we asked for a remake in the past- i do think that's the majority.

However, seeing how bad Warcraft 3 Reforged did (and it were a remake only updating the graphics) when it released maybe it's for the best to make the Remake different. If it were the same as the old it would certainly look prettier- but would probably get a lower rating.

Still- the style of the characters didn't need an update.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-17 06:38:02 by mr_nygren »

Izban

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #239 on: 2020-03-17 09:40:35 »
I was just pointing out that these things came from the modding community rather then from square, to the point there was a fair while there where the "official" patch was actually made by someone on this forum and was downloaded from here without permission being sought using up qhimms bandwidth at the time.... Gee I feel old remembering that.

RPGs really haven't exolved much in the last 20years unless you count the shift into action RPG territory, so there really isn't much in the way of quality of life improvement available, they literally could make it a bit prettier and smoother, but that's really about all, maybe tacking on a new game+ or story DLC while maintaining straight remaster status.

Looking at reforged as an example, the hardcore fanbase wanted this se game just prettier but no-one wants to pay $60us for a game that they already own, and new players who came from SC2 lol and Dota all think reforged plays likes.a bag of soggy vibrators, going back tto wc3 is regrettably the same.

Re2 isnt a direct 1-1 remaster because there were innovations in RE gameplay mechanics that kept the overall feel, looks good , plays good reviewed good

A direct remaster plus a couple of spare minigames is a waste of time and effort because they do poorly sales wise, you don't work for free why should they, anymore the a straight graphical update is major work even, even if it's something as simple as streamlineing or updating battle ai, how long has Sega chief been working on new threat, with current tools, how long did it take gjoerulv to make nightmare, both of which play completely different to ff7 base, how many hours did aali put into his driver, what about the hours spent just on making the tools to make modding ff7 possible, all of these where labours of love for a game all of which happened because people had issues with the original that weren't story related.

Point is I've bought reg ff7 3 times because I love the game mainly for nostalgia reasons, it's story while good had many unfinished threads to its tapestry,and didn't feel finished,  it's graphics really don't hold up well today, neither does it's gameplay, there is very little you can do to improve base rpg gameplay without a full rebuild of the battle module at which point pretty well anything you make is no longer base ff7.

As for the style updates on no Tifa now has stockings on and shorts instead of a skirt and bare legged(I don't play games to perv it's kinda creepy if you do) and Barret wears sunglasses at night and clouds hair is mildly less super sayan, or are you talking about the no SD/chibi (my least favourite artstyle) because really the arts fairly consistent with the original aside from those changes with the exception of a couple of colour changes on clothing.

I maintain I don't see the appeal of same game again with a couple of bonus goodies, a full remake/reimagining peaked my interest to the point I played the demo and gosh golly it was fun enough to make me wanna spring for the $750 copy, that sold out mind you, to the point they had to ramp up production of the $200 version to accommodate the pre-orders, pretty sure I sit with the majority that gave it a go and liked it that much

Izban

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #240 on: 2020-03-19 12:53:30 »
Free demo is free if you have a PS4 and a half decent internet subscription. if you don't have one well that's a different story, it's your loss.

$60usd for yet another copy of something you already own isnt exactly smart. $60usd for 20-60hrs of new experience in a beloved world sure that makes sense to me, which you can test play for free.

I firmly believe that the story is less important then how a game plays, which I find it quite fun, story is just a bonus, that being said they are extending the original story taking in lore elements from the ff7,cc,doc,AC,BC and a light novel or 2, so more story from the same world, which is being ajusted by most of the original team and people who grew up loving ff7.

I wouldn't say that original ff7 was manga art style, exaggerated characters sure but that can be chalked up to hardware limitations, in specific max polygons displayable by the PS1, unless your are talking specifically about the concept art, which while nice to look at isn't reflected in game.

Reforged was received so badly blizzard offered no questions asked refunds, RE2+ sold so well Capcom chose to continue remaking games... I would suggest that is a fair indicator that reboots/remakes handled well perform far better then remasters sales wise.

Whether on not you like RE2+ is irrelevant it was entirely to point out  difference in reception.

Square-enix likes to make money, they sure as hell wouldn't have made ff7remake part 1 if they weren't gonna turn a tidy profit.

At this point I'm fairly sure your just gonna continue bashing it because it's not exactly what you personally wanted, all I'm  suggesting is try it out before you choose to be vocal in your dislike

gjoerulv

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #241 on: 2020-03-19 14:34:07 »
To say you can't know if you like something without trying it is rather silly.

I know I won't like spending hours watching pokemon. I know I wouldn't like getting my kneecaps done in by a sledgehammer. I know I won't like the 2016 Ghostbuster movie.
You probably need to make a fair amount of assumptions, sure, but there are such things as reasonable assumptions.

$60usd for yet another copy of something you already own isnt exactly smart. $60usd for 20-60hrs of new experience in a beloved world sure that makes sense to me, which you can test play for free.

I wouldn't say that original ff7 was manga art style, exaggerated characters sure but that can be chalked up to hardware limitations, in specific max polygons displayable by the PS1, unless your are talking specifically about the concept art, which while nice to look at isn't reflected in game.

Not sure if "manga" is the right word to use here, but the character had a certain "comic/manga" style, yes. Imo, that's obvious. I'm fairly sure DLPB means "manga" as in how they were designed, not how the field models turned out to be due to limitations. Personally I don't like how the words "manga" and "anime" are used like they are something else than comics and animations, but that's another topic. It's not like I don't know what people mean when they say: "that's looks like an anime character". So I guess they serve a purpose.

Quote from: Loaded statements
$20 For a massively polished experiences of something you know and love, with A LOT of extra content, quality of life improvements, bug fixes, huge AI improvements, perfect localization and more is EXACTLY what you want.
$60 For a game, with storytelling and gameplay comparable to DBZ, boring hack and slash, style-over-substance is stupid.

xP. You can make anything look like anything with the right words.

-Ric-

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #242 on: 2020-03-19 22:34:32 »
On a positive note, seems like Amazon is going to be able to deliver the orders on April 10th.

-Ric-

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #243 on: 2020-03-20 02:55:05 »
I found this video to be a pretty good explanation about the new combat system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztySzIUICj0

Was interesting to watch. The KH3 part of the video was on point and most of what he says about FF15 is on point as well.

Mabinog

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #244 on: 2020-03-20 04:27:32 »
I found this video to be a pretty good explanation about the new combat system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztySzIUICj0

Was interesting to watch. The KH3 part of the video was on point and most of what he says about FF15 is on point as well.

Death_Unites_Us was always one of the guys most skeptical of the Remake from what I could tell. Glad he's giving it a chance even if he still prefers the original.

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #245 on: 2020-03-20 18:34:30 »
I was just pointing out that these things came from the modding community rather then from square, to the point there was a fair while there where the "official" patch was actually made by someone on this forum and was downloaded from here without permission being sought using up qhimms bandwidth at the time.... Gee I feel old remembering that.

RPGs really haven't exolved much in the last 20years unless you count the shift into action RPG territory, so there really isn't much in the way of quality of life improvement available, they literally could make it a bit prettier and smoother, but that's really about all, maybe tacking on a new game+ or story DLC while maintaining straight remaster status.

Looking at reforged as an example, the hardcore fanbase wanted this se game just prettier but no-one wants to pay $60us for a game that they already own, and new players who came from SC2 lol and Dota all think reforged plays likes.a bag of soggy vibrators, going back tto wc3 is regrettably the same.

Re2 isnt a direct 1-1 remaster because there were innovations in RE gameplay mechanics that kept the overall feel, looks good , plays good reviewed good

A direct remaster plus a couple of spare minigames is a waste of time and effort because they do poorly sales wise, you don't work for free why should they, anymore the a straight graphical update is major work even, even if it's something as simple as streamlineing or updating battle ai, how long has Sega chief been working on new threat, with current tools, how long did it take gjoerulv to make nightmare, both of which play completely different to ff7 base, how many hours did aali put into his driver, what about the hours spent just on making the tools to make modding ff7 possible, all of these where labours of love for a game all of which happened because people had issues with the original that weren't story related.

Point is I've bought reg ff7 3 times because I love the game mainly for nostalgia reasons, it's story while good had many unfinished threads to its tapestry,and didn't feel finished,  it's graphics really don't hold up well today, neither does it's gameplay, there is very little you can do to improve base rpg gameplay without a full rebuild of the battle module at which point pretty well anything you make is no longer base ff7.

As for the style updates on no Tifa now has stockings on and shorts instead of a skirt and bare legged(I don't play games to perv it's kinda creepy if you do) and Barret wears sunglasses at night and clouds hair is mildly less super sayan, or are you talking about the no SD/chibi (my least favourite artstyle) because really the arts fairly consistent with the original aside from those changes with the exception of a couple of colour changes on clothing.

I maintain I don't see the appeal of same game again with a couple of bonus goodies, a full remake/reimagining peaked my interest to the point I played the demo and gosh golly it was fun enough to make me wanna spring for the $750 copy, that sold out mind you, to the point they had to ramp up production of the $200 version to accommodate the pre-orders, pretty sure I sit with the majority that gave it a go and liked it that much

Square-Enix should have updated the models, that's the most important thing- especially on the field. A Remaster without new field models based on the original art is not the remaster most people wanted. I would personally have wanted models looking exactly like the original art in a remaster.

RPG's have evolved a lot. For the better and for the worse. A lot of people i've spoken to have agreed with me that the change from FF9 to FFX with too many videos playing all the time was bad. Another bad change were the FFXII to FFXIII where the world-map disappeared. Making the experience less epic and smaller. Also less free as you were led through the story and couldn't go where you pleased in the world like in the PSX titles.

Blizzard didn't do a good job at avoiding bugs and issues. They did remove the old battle.net in favor of the new system- and they did replace the old one for the old game as well. If you owned the old game and tried to login online you would get your game updated to the new- with lots of unstability and issues. Of course it's a very bad idea to replace the original with the remake. It's like if Square-Enix would replace the original FF7 with the Remake ruining the multiplayer experience of the original in the process. Fortunately FF7 isn't a multiplayer game. And it's not on PC only- so it's impossible to ruin like Blizzard ruined WC3 multiplayer of the old version. They kind of put the classic out of action when they released the new. Not good if you did prefer the old one, thereby saying to their customers that now you'll need to play the new one instead. Sure, there is an option to use the old models but players have reported that it has a different battle.net that is less stable and prone to crashing often. It's true that WC3R still has the outdated playstyle, and unlike FF7 people don't enjoy that as much today.

I've bought FF7 for 50$ back in 1997 for the PC, then i did buy it again from another guy for the PSX and played the full game there as well because i wanted to know the difference. I also played the game on both Win XP with good graphics and on the original Win 95 with worse resolution. After that i've played it countless times using different mods- starting with DLPB's Rejuvenation project in 2007. Then i did buy the game for the full price again in 2013 from the Square-Enix store due to the CD not working when trying to install it. I've bought the game many times over, and played it even more times- it's true that i didn't bother buying the Steam-version when i already have two PC-versions with the CD:s and one S-E Store version. I actually bought a used version for the PC in 2016 i think because i thought my original version had been stolen. Then i found it again, so i have two CD-copies. But the one i got in 2016 didn't have the original package that my old version has.

Real FF7 fans are prepared to buy the original over and over again just to be able to play it again- and that would be true for a remaster with new models as well. The reason i re-installed the game when new cool mods released is because i wanted to play with the many new features- new models being the most interesting new feature. I did never really like the old chibi-models and always wished that the battle-models would be in the field as well. Something made possible in 2007 when i found the first graphical mods which added the battle-models to the field. After that even better models have been made, that are looking like the FMV-models (a dream come true) or even the art-style (perfect). But imagine if the official game had such better models and kept to the original- i woul certainly buy it even though most people might not. But the hardcore FF7 fans would.

Rebooting FF7 might be the best choice if Square-Enix wants it to get out of the originals shadow. There is a risk people would prefer the original over the remaster otherwise- because unless it's perfectly done people would rather play the original. I'd love better models, but that is not enough- if too many changes are made the new models won't make the game better. WC3R changed the models, but they did also change the overall style from cartoony to modern WoW style- in my opinion the new style is inferior to old WoW as an example. Too much modern values in it - and the female units are less attractive. Many modern games are plagued with this.

The original game isn't perfect, if it were there wouldn't be mods that are aiming to improve upon it- but it's story and gameplay were almost perfect. Of course everything can be improved without changing it. Changing things could also improve it- but that's a risk.

Agreed that the story felt rushed in the third CD. I did always want more in the last one to be honest. I were also disappointed that the fight against Sephiroth weren't against him as he looked like in the Kalm flashback. I thought that Sephiroth were the best looking one- i were obsessed with Sephiroth during high school and searched like a mad-man for mods that allowed me to play as him- or trainers. He weren't as cool in the final fight in my opinion.

The graphics were the best ever seen back in 1997 lol. But you're right about them not holding up today. The PC version can look quite well using mods. But those old chibi-models can't be used without the game looking outdated. Gameplay is still fun for us old folks i think. I don't know what young people below 25 think.

Eh, Tifa still has a skirt but it's not a leather-skirt and it's not as wide as the old one. The stockings are an annoyance to my eyes. She doesn't have shorts thankfully, but the new skirt is less hot than the old. Now, i'm not playing to perv or whatever you wrote- but i enjoy my girls to be eye-candy while playing. I do always choose a hot female character over a male one when i play. I'd keep Tifa in my party because i like looking at her proportions. Change that and i'll use something cool instead- ruining my Tifa experience. Real life women are hard to deal with in this day and age. Sometimes hot models of female characters in games could be nice for people who don't have girlfriends and who like to be less bored while playing. I think that's what's great about the 90's- females in games were always as sexy as possible. That's how it should be done. I do not care about Barret's sun-glasses. I do think Barret is looking much better in the Remake than in the old Advent Children. In the original game he might have looked more aggressive but that's because of the style. Cloud's hair on the other hand could have been more "Super Saiyan"- there were people like that in the 90's. Pop-stars with such hair. Anyway, Cloud looks much better than in Advent Children though- much better pants. But they could have been more like the WW2 Germans because they were more like them in the original.

I have already bought the remake, so i'm very much looking forward to it. It being different does peek my interest as well. But i'm still disappointed about the Tifa eye candy.

« Last Edit: 2020-03-20 18:57:58 by mr_nygren »

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #246 on: 2020-03-20 19:26:20 »

I firmly believe that the story is less important then how a game plays, which I find it quite fun, story is just a bonus, that being said they are extending the original story taking in lore elements from the ff7,cc,doc,AC,BC and a light novel or 2, so more story from the same world, which is being ajusted by most of the original team and people who grew up loving ff7.

I wouldn't say that original ff7 was manga art style, exaggerated characters sure but that can be chalked up to hardware limitations, in specific max polygons displayable by the PS1, unless your are talking specifically about the concept art, which while nice to look at isn't reflected in game.

Reforged was received so badly blizzard offered no questions asked refunds, RE2+ sold so well Capcom chose to continue remaking games... I would suggest that is a fair indicator that reboots/remakes handled well perform far better then remasters sales wise.

Whether on not you like RE2+ is irrelevant it was entirely to point out  difference in reception.

Square-enix likes to make money, they sure as hell wouldn't have made ff7remake part 1 if they weren't gonna turn a tidy profit.

At this point I'm fairly sure your just gonna continue bashing it because it's not exactly what you personally wanted, all I'm  suggesting is try it out before you choose to be vocal in your dislike

Story is just a bonus - if we are writing about an action game, a first person shooter or a strategy game.. Story is half the game if it's an RPG like FF7- You can have the best gameplay and a sucky story and no one will play the game through to the end and praise it. An RPG is really in need of a great story arc. That said, with bad gameplay and a great story i would say that some people would enjoy it more than vice versa- but that the bad gameplay would still land the game a bad review. An RPG, which FF7 is - really needs a great story and great gameplay. But unlike you i'd say the story is more important than the gameplay in an RPG game. I also disliked DoC and don't want that game to be the basis for any story in the remake.

You are also totally wrong about the art-style and the look of the models in the original. The art-style by Tetsuya Nomura were the actual basis for the battle-models of the game, and the field-models were reduced versions of the battle-models because the PSX were mistakenly thought to not be able to handle more. Something FF8 proved were not the case, but remember that FF7 had better graphics than ever before seen in video gaming when it released- it's a shame it didn't look as good as FF8. The reason the field models looked so bad was because of hardware limitations of the PSX, and they didn't know it could handle a game like FF8 back then.

Compare the Rufus battle-model with the art-style version of Rufus and you can clearly see that he looks the same- but not as gorgeous as the art-style due to the PSX limitations. If FF7 orignal were made today it would have probably had cell-shaded graphics like Dragonball FighterZ. Square-Enix didn't create Final Fantasy VII- it was made by Square-Soft- back then Square-Soft and Enix were two different companies. If memory serves me right then Enix had Akira Toriyama, the creator of Dragonball Z, making the art-style for their rival RPG Dragon Quest. To counter Enix and Dragon Quest Square-Soft had a different artist drawing the FF7 characters in similar style but different. It's not the Akira Toriyama-style- but it's certainly the style used by manga/anime-artists.

For example this Tifa had great proportions. The shirt ends just right under her stuff. Her stomach is perfectly drawn. There is nothing that doesn't look perfect on this picture. A realistic Tifa didn't need a change of proportions, just a realistic face and that's it. This art is great.



And to show Rufus:



Game:



One can clearly see that the hair etc is the same as on the official art- just a shame the game wasn't made now when it comes to it's graphics. Because this art-style is better than the Remake.



« Last Edit: 2020-03-20 19:46:05 by mr_nygren »

gjoerulv

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #247 on: 2020-03-20 23:57:43 »
Just want to chip in and say, yes, there was, of course, a creative process behind the original FF7. But the chibi models were not a blueprint for the design. It's not like they started the process and decided the design had to revolve around chibi models. That the game was eventually decided to be made in 3D was probably the biggest factor behind the chibi models. In part because Square, as a company, did not have the fully experience in making 3D games. So they had to, kinda simplify things. If I'm not mistaken they have even admitted this. Please, anyone correct me if I'm completely wrong here.

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #248 on: 2020-03-21 00:43:16 »
Eh, Tifa still has a skirt but it's not a leather-skirt and it's not as wide as the old one. The stockings are an annoyance to my eyes. She doesn't have shorts thankfully, but the new skirt is less hot than the old. Now, i'm not playing to perv or whatever you wrote- but i enjoy my girls to be eye-candy while playing. I do always choose a hot female character over a male one when i play. I'd keep Tifa in my party because i like looking at her proportions. Change that and i'll use something cool instead- ruining my Tifa experience. Real life women are hard to deal with in this day and age. Sometimes hot models of female characters in games could be nice for people who don't have girlfriends and who like to be less bored while playing. I think that's what's great about the 90's- females in games were always as sexy as possible. That's how it should be done.

This is a take I've seen around a lot, from a lot of people.

Am I the only one that finds it weird?

Just like I found Final Fantasy XV's Cindy to be weird... Like... I mean... To each their own but damn... lol

Tekkie.X

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Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« Reply #249 on: 2020-03-22 11:34:34 »
This is a take I've seen around a lot, from a lot of people.

Am I the only one that finds it weird?

Just like I found Final Fantasy XV's Cindy to be weird... Like... I mean... To each their own but damn... lol

He's got the thirst. I quite like with the new Tifa design. And she still has big boobs without looking silly, still has the belly showing now with some ab detail and still has the barely there skirt.