Quite the Situation

[L. Spiro]

I was put into quite a situation only moments ago.

Here is how it all began.


Once upon a time our company was doing fine.
Our main clients were/are Ubisoft and Vivendi Universal with lots of others scattered about.

Part of keeping the company alive means completing our projects correctly and on time, keeping Ubisoft happy and gaining repeat business, as well as a portfolio that allows us to get more business.


To gain a higher status and a better reputation we took a project from Ubisoft with a serious deadline.
The project would be tight even if all things were going well.

My project is our own license, and this project can not be completed without me because it is entirely my code at this point (an engine that would be the foundation for all of our own games in the future).
For me to abandon this project means we have no future intellectual property of our own.  No one else will be able to pick up the project after me because it is a fairly large engine with fairly large incomplete parts including a full physics engine, which no one else will be able to finish (you can not pick up after someone on this type of thing, with no clue even as far as what is completed and what is not).



Previously I mentioned a friend from this company who decided to slander my name and make my life hell.
When he left this company, he went to another office in this same building.
Now two people from the important Ubisoft project are leaving, and they are going to that same company.


This hurts the company in many ways.
Now the most important project we have had is in jeopardy, and it’s salt on the wound because it was the same company who took our other senior programmer.
I am being pulled from my project to work on the critical project as a result with plans to resume my project later.

After this happened the boss made it very clear that I would be the pillar of support for this project, and should this project fail it might be the end of the company itself.
This project is meant for huge reputation both from prospective clients and from Ubisoft.
Failure of completion on this project destroys our relations with our most valuable client and completely damages our reputation with prospective future clients.
As my boss put it.


The message is clear.
The life of the company depends on me, at least while he looks for new candidates to replace the old.





And then the disaster hit.

It is quite common knowledge that I dream of Tokyo.
That is why my coworker posted a job oppurtunity for me.
As it turns out, this Japanese company has an office right here in my building, and to get hired would be as much effort as taking an elevator two floors and walking 30 feet.
The job would then send me to Tokyo, give me better crudentials for my résumé, pay me 4 times as much, and of course I would finally be living in my dream land.
And the fact is this is the first interesting job I have ever seen in Japan.  It is almost like a fluke.


So here I am faced with my dream 2 floors below, or the survival of my current company.
The job is urgent.  They won’t be hiring long enough for me to finish my critical project, so it seems I can not have both my dream and the survival of my current company.



What can I do?

How can I decide between the rare chance at my dream and the life of my boss’s company?


L. Spiro

[Synergy Blades]

My project is our own license, and this project can not be completed without me because it is entirely my code at this point [...] No one else will be able to pick up the project after me because it is a fairly large engine with fairly large incomplete parts including a full physics engine, which no one else will be able to finish (you can not pick up after someone on this type of thing, with no clue even as far as what is completed and what is not).

I may not know you or your code base but I would have to say I can't agree with this. Realistically, if someone (or even a small team) comes in to the company after you who has a knowledgable head on their shoulders they should be able to spend some time reviewing your work and your designs (hopefully you have the design documented) and then carry on from where you left off in a fairly short period, provided you have coded in a style that is consistent, commented, well structured, etc.

Besides which, the issue really is a fault of the company/management in that the entire project seemingly rests in your hands which is never a good idea (what if you were taken ill, for example?) My suggestion, then, would be to see if the job opportunity can be put on hold til the end of your current project with the company; if so then float the idea with your boss or just outright tell him you'll be off at the end of it, and if it can't be put on hold then really it's entirely your moral compass to guide you.

[ChaosControl]

Easy, screw the boss (you won't be working for him anymore anyway) and get the job and go to Japan (that's your dream right?).
And, if you're in Japan, you won't see the boss and the guy who made your life a living hell anymore ^_^

Need anymore reasons why to stop? He's just your boss, not like he's your best friend or anything.

[L. Spiro]

Realistically, if someone (or even a small team) comes in to the company after you who has a knowledgable head on their shoulders they should be able to spend some time reviewing your work and your designs (hopefully you have the design documented) and then carry on from where you left off in a fairly short period, provided you have coded in a style that is consistent, commented, well structured, etc.

Realistically, this is Thailand, and it is of concern in the first place just to find someone who would understand the concept.
Even assuming we did, the real threat is that nobody likes trudging through someone else’s code (especially when it isn’t complete) and he would want to just start over doing something that is his own, that he understands from the inside out.

In any case it is a huge regression.
And thus far I have been quoting the boss/owner.



And normally I would agree a company should not allow its fate to be in the hands of one person.
Unfortunately we are small (14 people or such) and I am the second in charge, under the owner himself.

So if there should be someone who is dependable, it should be me.
I have always been there before, and it is my duty to be there now, which is why he should be able to depend on me.
Likewise, as part of growing up, certain people are supposed to be put into positions of major responsibility as a measurement of their suitability for the role of supervisor.




Well I spoke with him about it once he came to the office today.
No, he isn’t happy, but he (and everyone) knows how important my dreams of Japan are, so he understands there is no possible way to alter my course at this moment.

But then I haven’t gotten the job yet.
Who knows.

Easy, screw the boss (you won't be working for him anymore anyway) and get the job and go to Japan (that's your dream right?).
And, if you're in Japan, you won't see the boss and the guy who made your life a living hell anymore ^_^

Need anymore reasons why to stop? He's just your boss, not like he's your best friend or anything.

He is not my best friend, but he is a good person with an honest dream—he just wants to start a game company and not have it die off.
As well, he has shown loyalty to myself and other coworkers here, so showing loyalty back is the least I could do.
Incidentally, this is a rare type of boss.
He bought me my subscription to Chess at Work DOT com.


L. Spiro

[halkun]

This seems to be a failure of management. I'm not an expert, I'm only a stone's throw from graduation with a simple degree in Business. However, the whole thing seems to be a human resorces disaster.

That fact *you* want to leave is proof enough right there.

It would also seem that your boss is pushing his responsability on you. Call me old fashioned, but if I was the manager of a project, and my human capital imploded under me, I would be my fault.

Managers don't seem to understand that human resource is a *RESOURCE*, and subject to the laws of supply/demand/ROI/and product efficiency. You can't loose people and expect to maintain the same level of output. It's just like if you need wood to make tables and the forest decides to take a job with another firm.

If you are at-will, then go for it. I've been with too many companies that have imploded from within, taking my job with it. It's the reason why I'm getting out of the computer industry. I'm simply getting too old to deal with the instability of the whole mess.

For the record, halkun here has been an Avionics tech before 9/11, Computer support before the dot-com bust, database programmer before the shift to six-month contract hires that became in vouge, and now is in the hydraulic fitting industry, watching all the manufacturing go to China. I just pick the worst career choices!

Now you can see why I got my business degree at 32...

Guilt free, I'd go for it. That and also I could use you as a contact in Japan on the inside. I'd like to live there again too.

### EDIT ###
That and you have a good taste in avatars ^_^


### EDIT EDIT ###
That and I'd get out of Thailand anyway.

[L. Spiro]

This seems to be a failure of management. I'm not an expert, I'm only a stone's throw from graduation with a simple degree in Business. However, the whole thing seems to be a human resorces disaster.

Yes, it appears that way from the outside.
Just remember it is a small company with only a handful of people, most of whom are Thai and not exceptionally experienced/skilled.
As part of growing up, of course, we have been trying to estasblish a chain of command that would prevent this situation.
The potential for failure is necessary for the company to get past it; that is, this stage in the company’s development is unavoidable.

The problem is, we should have gotten past this stage and into stable ground.
And we might have if not for me.

That fact *you* want to leave is proof enough right there.

Well, I don’t want to leave because of a problem with the company.
I want to leave only because it allows me to continue pursuing my dreams.

It would also seem that your boss is pushing his responsability on you.

Actually he informed me of the importance of my position on this project before I was going to quit.  Back then the point he wanted to make was just to ensure that I knew it was critical to the company.
Now that I have spoken to him about this, in fact, I get the feeling he is holding back just to make sure I don’t feel so bad.

That and you have a good taste in avatars ^_^

You too.

That and I'd get out of Thailand anyway.

Nothing against Thailand; I know a lot of people here now and I love badminton (I will miss it).
Just in my case Tokyo is really the only home for me, with Hong Kong being a possible second only if Tokyo is impossible.

Every other country/city for me is “just passing through”.


L. Spiro

[ChaosControl]

The thing is, if the company can't get out of this on its own then they won't after this project (whn you've left).

I think your "dream" is more important then the now and then.
You should purseu your dream and hope you can live it, if so then this doesnt really matter anyway because it isnt a part of your "dream"

just go, they'll understand, if not, I dont think they are people you should ask anyway.

[RW_66]

Spiro..
I have been in your situation, and it is VERY tough trying to decide where your loyalties should go, to your boss (who hired and has faith in you) or to yourself (to possibly capture your dreams).It's never easy, and it's definitely not fun. In the end, it's going to be about which outcome you're going to be able to live with. Both practicaly, and emotionally.

Yes, that Japanese job might pay 4 times more. That's good. But if you do get moved to Japan, you might wind up living in some flea-bag apartment/flop-house, eating only ramen noodles because that's all you'd be able to afford (the Japanese economy is VERY expensive). It could take you months to save up for one decent date with a girl.

Also.. I don't wish to characterize any members of this forum unfairly, but Japanese society is xenophobic in a way that even the South African aparthied(sp?) system can't match. Less than .03% of yearly applications for japanese citizenship are approved. And even if you did get approved, you'd still be considered gaigin for the rest of your life. It wouldn't be obvious at first. But the longer you lived and came to understand japanese society, the more you would notice how you are treated differently..

Anyway, thougt I would give you a different viewpoint on the subject.

[Borde]

Uffff... that's a really problematic situation. I'm just a non experienced average engineer who hasn't even finished his degree yet, so I'm defintly not the best person to ask. Anyway, If my opinion could have any relevance, I think you should stick with your company until you finish this job. Maybe I'm just a fool, but I think if your boss treated you well, you should help him out of this mess. But one thing is for sure, never get involved to this extent with any other project. It's not your responsability to keep the company alive.
I don't know how Thailand will evolve from now on (it looked pretty messed acording to what you've said here), but I heard that the live in Japan is quiet hard, anyway.

[L. Spiro]

The thing is, if the company can't get out of this on its own then they won't after this project (whn you've left).

It’s just bad timing.
Two people left at once when the team was already small.  Normally there wouldn’t have been a problem, and putting me on the project was meant to tie us over until we can find new people.

Maybe I'm just a fool, but I think if your boss treated you well, you should help him out of this mess.

This is the true root of the problem.
I have been treated well and abandoning things/people is not my way.
Yet this job is a very rare chance; the first job offer in Japan I have ever actually liked.  Ever.

I have been in your situation, and it is VERY tough trying to decide where your loyalties should go, to your boss (who hired and has faith in you) or to yourself (to possibly capture your dreams).It's never easy, and it's definitely not fun. In the end, it's going to be about which outcome you're going to be able to live with. Both practicaly, and emotionally.

The fact is I usually weigh my actions based on how I will feel about it later.
My decision would be easy if I could find a way not to feel bad for the company after I leave.

But my boss has allowed me to do that now, so I will be applying and if I get the job I will go.
He probably just said these things so that I wouldn’t feel so bad, but either way I feel better.


All he really wants is that I give a month’s notice and use that time to ensure the engine I have been making is completely fully documented beyond compare.
I will also try to help the new guy get into my code so he is ready to go when I leave.

Yes, that Japanese job might pay 4 times more. That's good. But if you do get moved to Japan, you might wind up living in some flea-bag apartment/flop-house, eating only ramen noodles because that's all you'd be able to afford (the Japanese economy is VERY expensive). It could take you months to save up for one decent date with a girl.

It won’t be that bad.
Proportionally speaking I will be making the same there as I am now.

Japanese society is xenophobic

True that.
But going into the country expecting it to be that way makes it pretty easy with which to deal.

Less than .03% of yearly applications for japanese citizenship are approved.

No, but plenty of work permits get approved, and that is what I need.
I never planned on becoming a citizen as I have felt it is quite impractical.  Even if I had a Japanese wife.

And even if you did get approved, you'd still be considered gaigin for the rest of your life.

I already am.
I am already a foreigner living in Thailand and I am already treated differently.
And to be quite honest, I’ve never been treated normally a day in my life.
The main difference between Japan and America is that in Japan, people can know to treat me differently by a quick glance, while in America people have to actually know me for 5 minutes first (overlooking the comments people have given me about how I walk/stand/move, since I look like a stick with clothes).





But I thank everyone for all input.
By boss understands my dream and has made a reasonable request before I go.
Just train someone to take over the project.
Now I just have to apply at the company and see if they will actually let me wait a month before going.
My biggest concern now is that the company will want me in Japan in a week rather than a month and I wouldn’t be able to comply with my boss’s one fair request.


L. Spiro

[stevenw9]

Businesses run in a very person VS person fashion. If you have to step on someone, even if it be an entire company to get you farther in life then do it! Now if you have a very annoying concious... your stuck. But people don't get rich by handing out money to everyone! And so the saying goes, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Take the opportunities at hand before they aren't there anymore. This is my overall opinion. 

[mirex]

L.Spiro: Don't take everything too seriously. You're not the most important person in the world. You will have to be replaced on the project eventually, somewhere in the future.
There allways will be someone who will take over your project.
That's the reason why projects and code should be documented at least to make it readable to other people.

You can try to go to tokyo company, get the deal with them and make them understand that you need to finish your job now and you can enter employment right after you finish it.
I don't know how is it in Thailand, but in our country you cannot leave your job when you want to if your boss won't let you go, because it can cause finnancial loss to the employer just as in your case. Here in slovakia Boss can keep you in your job for additional 3 months from date when you wanted to leave.

And ofcourse, it is allways a good thing to finish your dues. It would not look good on your resume that you have left it unfinished just because you got better money. Your new employers could get an image of that you could do the same to them.

[L. Spiro]

You're not the most important person in the world.

I would hope I didn’t give anyone the idea that I think that.
Just remember this is Thailand and not India or California.
Besides, if I felt I was the most important person in the world, I wouldn’t be so concerned with the well-being of my boss and his company.  The whole point is kind of that I really think more about other people…

As for my importance to this particular company, you can talk to my boss and coworkers about that.
Thus far I only quote them.

They are the ones telling me what would happen to the company if I left.
They are the reason I have such huge concerns about leaving.
Certainly, I will be replaced.
They have no choice.
Just remember that Thailand != California, and over the 2 years I have been here the owner has expressed very much dissatisfaction over the difficulties in finding new skilled employees.

You can try to go to tokyo company, get the deal with them and make them understand that you need to finish your job now and you can enter employment right after you finish it.

I will ask for as much time as I can get, but asking them to wait until the end of the project means asking them to wait 5-7 months, which of course means I would not get the job.

It would not look good on your resume that you have left it unfinished just because you got better money.

Actually another Thai company has offered me literally 3 times my current salary, which I refused out of loyalty.
I am very hard to buy.
My reason for leaving now is simply the Tokyo part of the deal.


I have already met with the Japanese company and they already know that I have always had full intentions of eventually moving on to Japan.
They won’t be concerned about the fact that I am leaving my current company.


L. Spiro

[Circle]

I know my opinion may not matter since I'm new and my name is Janitor but before you do anything else, I would like to write the number one rule in a place called Sacred Heart Hospital:

Too much haha, later booho.

You could say that to your boss too.

[James Pond]

These bots are becoming a fucking joke -_-


They're not even posting any decent warez links anymore.

[RPGillespie]

Wow, that is quite the choice, here's my opinion on the matter.

I believe that either choice could end in a positive outcome. However, one of the choices is pretty selfish.

Abandoning your current company would probably annilate any and all loyalty/friendship ties with your boss; your boss would end up with a destroyed company leading to the termination of many employee's jobs, and you would end up with a dream job with 4x pay.

Stay with your company, (assuming you finish this critical project), and the opportunity for your dream job disappears but your current company gets a boosted reputation and everyone in the company keeps their jobs.

It would probably be good to get the Japan job, while still have enough time to finish your project (or train someone would would be able to finish it) and leave the company with some decent support.

P.S. I don't think that Janitor is a bot, just a random poster with purple text ~.^ -- unless bots can post topic relevant information...can they?

[Kashmir]

How can I decide between the rare chance at my dream and the life of my boss’s company?

From my experience with bosses its screw or be screwed. They act all friendly and loyal untill right up till the moment they fire you.

Pack up and chase your dreams i say, from the sounds of it the company is very unstable... its not worth the risk when their is a better job prospect available.

[Otokoshi]

You're not the most important person in the world. You will have to be replaced on the project eventually, somewhere in the future.

I don't believe mirex meant that L. Spiro was saying that he is supreme coder extraordinaire.  He's saying that is what your boss is loading on to you.  He's begging for you to stay, and that's fair.  If you're a good employee most employers will ask you to stay, and maybe and incentives, raises, etc.  It's really not fair for him to lay a guilt trip down on you, that if you leave it will bring the fall of his company.

Managers don't seem to understand that human resource is a *RESOURCE*, and subject to the laws of supply/demand/ROI/and product efficiency. You can't loose people and expect to maintain the same level of output. It's just like if you need wood to make tables and the forest decides to take a job with another firm.

This is another good point.  It is your boss's responsibility to recruit new talent, whether he is set up in California, India, or Thailand, that was his choice for the location and he should have planned accordingly.

Well the Japanese society might be xenophobic, but for a long...long time it was an isolated society.  And to be honest, times have changed in Japan.  It is much more liberal than it once was, and it is common for all types of people.  Sure you'll be a minority there, but it's not like people will point at you, grab their children, and run down the street yelling, "Godzilla! Godzilla!"  It's one thing to fear or be uncomfortable with change, it's another thing to be ignorant.  I've seen enough racism and bigotry here in my short time in the US it disgusts me.  I call Kyoto my home, and I'm sure you would love Japan.

I've heard your strifes with the Thailand police and such trying to rob you.  That doesn't fly in Japan.  If anything, they will think you're a tourist, or in your case their for business, so they would be fair and helpful with you.  Just a while back you were under martial law, the building you were in was bombed, what's next?  More importantly, who is next?  Don't let the next victim be you.

I do think it speaks volumes towards your character that you would care about your employer and stay loyal to him.  You never know when the next opportunity for this dream of yours will come along.  Honestly, it's business not personal.

[HBK187]

I've gotta say that if i were in your shoes i'd pack my stuff and be on the next plane for tokyo. Business is business. You know this could be your only chance to achieve your dream. Your boss might struggle finding a replacement but honestly.. that really isnt your dilemma. Do you think your boss would worry so much about you? He's a business man and i'm sure he understands how the world works. The fault lies on him for not being better prepared for this. Take your chance don't let it pass you up!

[RW_66]

To Otokoshi,

I'm sorry if my remarks and observations on Japanese society somehow offended you. I was not tryingg to insult anybody, merely tryin to offer a different perspective.

You are certainly correct to point out that the younger generation in Japan is much more open than previous generations, by a long shot. And the Japanese people are noted world wide for their polite manners. Re-reading my post, I now realize I probably was overly harsh in some aspects (especially the South Africa thing..).

As far as racism goes in the US.. well, it's still not completely gone. But, when you consider the make up of the population (55-60% European/Caucasian, 20-25% Hispanic,10-15% African-American, 5% Other (Native Americans and Asians)), it's more of a wonder that there aren't more problems than there are. I spent 2 years in Europe, and the bigotry over there almost makes the 'Klu Klux Klan' look tame. Of course this does not apologize or excuse the idiocy of these morons. I am a vociferous opponent of ANY form of racism and bigotry, so I apologize if my post came across the wrong way.

By the way, isn't it "Gojira"? 

[Decayrate]

L.Spiro follow your dream, follow your dream.

The situation in Norway is "somthing" like xenophobic, especially against people from east-europe, and thats kinda sad.
but in My case it's many people from east-europe that migrates to norway, and it's stirring up many Norwegians, becous some of them can't behave.
 and the media givs a'little "odd" perception off the east-europeanes, becous many of them actually want's the same as everybody. peace