Author Topic: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)  (Read 19935 times)

Zhelkus

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Hi. This would be my first post in this forum. I've been lurking around and thought to work on something and since I know a bit of video processing I decided to give this a shot.

I just re-encoded the opening cinematic for FF7 and tweaked it a bit here and there. I tried to use a few sharpeners to preserve as much detail as possible while also deblocking as much as possible without harming the overall picture. The end result doesn't look so bad. I saved a snapshot m35 made some months ago in another thread:



And used it as a baseline to compare it with mine:


One of my goals with this was to enhance the original FMV as much as possible without using any external programs besides AviSynth. So yeah, all the filters that were used to process the video were all scripted and nothing was done manually on any frame, it was all in one go.

Oh an finally, the original video (like all the rest) ran at 14.985FPS while this one runs at 29.97FPS. And no, it's not simple frame duplicating. There's an extensive frame blending that slows down the encoding ferociously :P Have a look. The frame blending is really beta alpha-ish (some blending artifacts tend to pop up in fast scenes and some ghosting at the beginning), but there are some moments where the fluidity of the animation is really gorgeous. It made me wish Square would have at least done 30FPS with the PC version...  :'( If there's any chance that the FMV Restoration Project would be interested in this I'd gladly contribute.

Video link: OPENING[0].mp4 - 25.82MiB (video quality is diminished to make file smaller for uploading)
Video: x264 - Const.Q.21.5, 720p (same aspect ratio as source)
Audio: Nero-AAC@98kbps VBR


Anyway, I'd enjoy reading some feedback. :)

obesebear

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #1 on: 2010-12-13 05:18:41 »
Wow, ignoring the ample amount of artifacts, it does look a lot better with the frame blending.   I'd say once all the kinks are worked out, re-updating the FMV's would definitely be a worthwhile effort.

Covarr

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #2 on: 2010-12-13 05:37:36 »
Ignore me if I'm wrong, because that happens quite a bit, but doesn't FF7 need the videos to play at the same framerate as the originals?

DLPB_

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #3 on: 2010-12-13 06:03:12 »
I am not sure if the game supports 30fps.  Frame blending is a good idea.  The only bad thing is I have finished the project :)   You are welcome to release your own of course!


Terid__K

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #4 on: 2010-12-13 06:13:14 »
The internal frame limiter is the problem. It makes sure both the game and the FMVs are running at the same FPS at all times, to avoid out-of-sync sequences.

You need to hack those values first before even considering this.


Covarr

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #5 on: 2010-12-13 06:17:39 »
The internal frame limiter is the problem. It makes sure both the game and the FMVs are running at the same FPS at all times, to avoid out-of-sync sequences.

You need to hack those values first before even considering this.
Doesn't the game run at 30fps already, at least in field? I was under the impression that FMVs ran at half the speed of the field, and frames were doubled in-game. In theory, 30fps should still work.

Terid__K

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #6 on: 2010-12-13 06:26:15 »
The internal frame limiter is the problem. It makes sure both the game and the FMVs are running at the same FPS at all times, to avoid out-of-sync sequences.

You need to hack those values first before even considering this.
Doesn't the game run at 30fps already, at least in field? I was under the impression that FMVs ran at half the speed of the field, and frames were doubled in-game. In theory, 30fps should still work.

It does run at 30fps, however the game lowers it to 15 whenever an FMV plays (Just pay attention when a character is moving in front of an FMV. You'll notice his movements are slower).


DLPB_

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #7 on: 2010-12-13 06:35:44 »
It is too much hassle for me to go through them all again anyway.  The effort just isn't worth the good fluid motion imho but like I say others are welcome to try.  As for the limiter, does anyone know how hard it would be to solve that?

I've just tested frame blending in Vegas.  The result is better than what you posted because it is a better software.  However, I still wouldn't have used it.  It makes the videos look like some sort of acid trip.  You can see the slight blurring and this makes it a "dream like" sequence, even if the motion is twice as fluid.
« Last Edit: 2010-12-13 06:49:40 by DLPB »

Terid__K

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #8 on: 2010-12-13 06:50:21 »
It's probably harder than it sounds. If you just change the FPS value, the cutscenes will be smoother, but they won't be any faster. The characters that are scripted to move in front of the cutscenes will most likely be faster though, and that will cause sync issues.


dahfa

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #9 on: 2010-12-13 08:51:14 »
it almost feels like it was rendered real time.is it because of the fps?

DLPB_

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #10 on: 2010-12-13 08:58:32 »
It is because it is 2X the frames plus an intermediate which is a blend of the one before and after. 

BloodShot

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #11 on: 2010-12-13 10:44:51 »
The smooth video ain't a bad idea, but I always felt like videos at 30 fps are too smooth, it kills the cinematic effect that the originals have. The originals just feel more like a

movie, probably mostly since movies are slightly lower FPS. This would make videos where you can interact with things more fluid though, so it would be a good thing to try.

DLPB_

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #12 on: 2010-12-13 11:05:13 »
It's not that it is too smooth, it's that it is unnatural because of the intermediate frame.  The fake frame.  Your brain isnt fooled.  If you have a camera that records at 60fps, you get smooth natural images.
« Last Edit: 2010-12-13 15:21:37 by DLPB »

Zhelkus

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #13 on: 2010-12-13 23:13:56 »
Ignore me if I'm wrong, because that happens quite a bit, but doesn't FF7 need the videos to play at the same framerate as the originals?
I had no idea that this was the case...  :o Anyway, it still looks nice and is pleasing to the eyes. Right?  ;)

I've just tested frame blending in Vegas.  The result is better than what you posted because it is a better software.  However, I still wouldn't have used it.  It makes the videos look like some sort of acid trip.  You can see the slight blurring and this makes it a "dream like" sequence, even if the motion is twice as fluid.
That's odd. I had the impression that this technique was solely implemented by only a few video processors and only on a plugin level. I had no knowledge Vegas did this kind of blending. And it's odd that you see it as an acid trip since the only scene where there's evident blending (ghosting) is in the beginning with all the stars, everything else is almost perfectly animated. When it's not there are artifacts... but not ghosting :? . Not that I'm saying this to convince somebody to implement it into a mod, it's just to point out that the blending technique is pretty unique.

The smooth video ain't a bad idea, but I always felt like videos at 30 fps are too smooth, it kills the cinematic effect that the originals have. The originals just feel more like a

movie, probably mostly since movies are slightly lower FPS. This would make videos where you can interact with things more fluid though, so it would be a good thing to try.
I think I agree with you because what you're implying is that it ruins the nostalgia. ;D True. The PS1 would have used 30FPS in FMVs if the hardware was more capable. Guaranteed.

edit: I just found the article that explains the blending technique!

It's not exactly blending, since blending is just mishmashing two frames and creatign a new one. This video is a result of interpolating. Not so special, maybe.

Here's a link for those that are interested: http://compression.ru/video/frame_rate_conversion/index_en_frcn.html
« Last Edit: 2010-12-13 23:19:38 by sl1982 »

DLPB_

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #14 on: 2010-12-13 23:46:05 »
http://www.highdefforum.com/flat-panel-tvs/80194-soap-opera-effect.html

That's the main issue with this tech.   It makes videos look artificial because your brain simply isnt fooled by the fake frames.

sl1982

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #15 on: 2010-12-14 00:28:38 »
I will admit i saw a tv with this "soap opera effect" and to be honest it just looked wrong somehow. It was like characters were slapped on top of the screen.

Terid__K

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #16 on: 2010-12-14 00:38:08 »
Yeah, that is a pretty useless feature on modern tvs. I have a 120hz plasma, and I always leave this extra motion effect turned off. Looks very unatural otherwise.



pyrozen

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #17 on: 2010-12-14 00:56:14 »
Yeah, that is a pretty useless feature on modern tvs. I have a 120hz plasma, and I always leave this extra motion effect turned off. Looks very unatural otherwise.

if you have a plasma, i hope you have alot higher refresh than 120Hz. Most plasmas clock in between 400-500Hz, and do not suffer the same magnitude of ghosting that LCDs do.

Terid__K

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #18 on: 2010-12-14 03:40:02 »
Yeah, that is a pretty useless feature on modern tvs. I have a 120hz plasma, and I always leave this extra motion effect turned off. Looks very unatural otherwise.

if you have a plasma, i hope you have alot higher refresh than 120Hz. Most plasmas clock in between 400-500Hz, and do not suffer the same magnitude of ghosting that LCDs do.

My mistake. It's actually 480hz.

The ghosting isn't caused by refresh rate though, it's caused by high response time (which is no problem in plasmas, since all of them have a response time of less than 1ms).

« Last Edit: 2010-12-14 03:47:34 by TeridKane »

Zhelkus

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #19 on: 2010-12-14 05:42:46 »
It's not really that big of a deal. If Square initially developed the game and had the cinematics running at 30FPS and then I showed you mine upconverted from 15FPS you wouldn't tell the difference -except for the ghosting in the stars and fast artifacts-. It's not because of our eyes telling apart reality from fantasy or fake pixels from real ones, it's because we're used to having things running at 30FPS (except for games, which are 60FPS). This video only runs at 30FPS like everything else does nowadays. I could have boosted it to run at 45 or even 60FPS... but that would definitely cause a disturbance in most people's comfort when watching the video.

Another way to put it, it's not a perception issue but more like a tradition/comfort issue... right? What do you guys think?


The ghosting isn't caused by refresh rate though, it's caused by high response time (which is no problem in plasmas, since all of them have a response time of less than 1ms).
And that's why it's still so much better to play games on plasma sets than on lcd sets. Be it PS3, X360 or Wii (Wii is benefited the most).
« Last Edit: 2010-12-14 05:50:23 by Zhelkus »

DLPB_

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #20 on: 2010-12-14 07:20:47 »
LCD with LED backlighting is the best.

Zhelkus

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #21 on: 2010-12-14 07:42:58 »
OLED?


Zhelkus

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #23 on: 2010-12-15 23:32:50 »
LCD with LED backlighting is the best.
Just did some research and almost every photo-savvy forum community agrees that OLED > LED-Lit LCD.

It seems that LED-Lit LCDs are an entry marketing ploy for bringing in OLEDs in the future. Technologically, OLEDs are superior. Definitely no ghosting.

sl1982

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Re: FF7 FMV Restoration (just a glimpse at another shot)
« Reply #24 on: 2010-12-15 23:36:31 »
Good luck getting an OLED screen larger the 15". And expect to pay a fortune.