Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Archive => Topic started by: ff7rules on 2009-03-02 21:36:51
-
I know I'm probably going to get flamed for posting this but here goes. Recently a team of people have got together and started trying to crack the LZS compression format. We can view the models in FFv7 but all there bones and joints are allover the place, anyway from there we exported it to whatever model building program we each use.
However our problem is we can't get it back into the LZS format, is there anyway to do this we have a very good willing model maker willing to make loads of unique new stuff for ff7 but hes only interested in the PSX version atm. We have looked at wiki and see that the files are indeed different to the PC versions and we see that each joint is spilt from each other. The modeller is going to make a low poly model with the exact same requirements as the one we are replacing and the exact same animation's same vertices's polygons joints bones everything it'll be like the original model but made better or colored differently so here's my question is there anyway to convert the model back to LZs when we are done?
-
If you're talking about this kind of LZS (http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7/LZS_format) then Ficedula's FiceLZS (http://www.sylphds.net/f2k3/php/programs.php?category=ff7) will compress it to a "level 4".
I got WM to compress the text files of the KERNEL.BIN a little better than Ficedula's (in fact, it uses the game's compression level to create identical files from raw data) so if you really need it, I could make a simple compression prog. Only catch is it may take a few days.
-
If you're talking about this kind of LZS (http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7/LZS_format) then Ficedula's FiceLZS (http://www.sylphds.net/f2k3/php/programs.php?category=ff7) will compress it to a "level 4".
I got WM to compress the text files of the KERNEL.BIN a little better than Ficedula's (in fact, it uses the game's compression level to create identical files from raw data) so if you really need it, I could make a simple compression prog. Only catch is it may take a few days.
Yeah thats the format I'm talking about the one viewable in ffV7. Dude that would be awesome if you could make a compression program what files would you be able to compress from? we are using a range of formats Milkshape, 3DS max etc but we can always decode them right? So we would be able to compress back to LZs so we could finally have psx model mods? This is something we are serious about doing and i thought i hit the jackpot when i found bitturn but it didn't write back to lzs so we have no way of inserting them back into the game.
-
As far as I can tell, file type is unimportant. I could write a simple compression/decompression prog that will take any file, de-LZS to any file, then LZS back to any file. Can you email me an example file and it's LZSed source (one compressed one decompressed) so I can experiment with?
Email addy in profile.
-
ff7rules is using Biturn to convert 3D models in LZS files to workable formats (3DS etc), then editing them and wanting to get those files stuffed back in the game. Surely if you create an LZS compresser/decompressor the 3DS files are still going to have to be reverse-converted back to the original 3D format regardless of LZS compression.
-
Are you planning to make new models for the PSX version? Because if you are, you might run into trouble with file sizes, since better models almost always mean more kilobytes.
-
Are you planning to make new models for the PSX version? Because if you are, you might run into trouble with file sizes, since better models almost always mean more kilobytes.
Thats our ultimate goal yeah and file sizes will be a bitch but if we make them smaller cdmage should padd it.
-
But how can the new, high quality models be made smaller than the original, low quality models? I'm no expert on compression, but I imagine that will be very hard to do...
-
But how can the new, high quality models be made smaller than the original, low quality models? I'm no expert on compression, but I imagine that will be very hard to do...
They won't be high quailty they will be really low this is more a test than anything. If that works we work from there. Also i don't think the PSX version could handle hi res models all the time it would LAG like mad.
-
Also i don't think the PSX version could handle hi res models all the time it would LAG like mad.
Is that a problem with the game or with the PSX itself (so it wouldn't come up when playing on an emulator/PS2/PS3)? Forgive me if that question sounds a little noobish.
-
Also i don't think the PSX version could handle hi res models all the time it would LAG like mad.
Is that a problem with the game or with the PSX itself (so it wouldn't come up when playing on an emulator/PS2/PS3)? Forgive me if that question sounds a little noobish.
Ill be honest im not sure but PSX definetly has its limits as to what it can do, BUT ff8s and 9s models look ALOT better than ff7s so maybe? Who knows if its not the game that limits the graphics but i think it will be. Its not like pc. PC is like depending on your computer specs while psx must have a set limit so will have to see how far we can push it. I know this is getting WAY ahead of myself but i would love it if we could have some ff8 and 9 graphics in there like summons etc. This will happen in the pc version before it happens in the psx version though :lol:
-
Obviously the basic PSX didn't change between the time VII was made and the time IX was made, but what developers could do with it certainly did; Square started on VII in the very early days of the PSX (1994, I believe). By the time they started on IX they understood the workings of the PSX better and could do more things with it.
-
Obviously the basic PSX didn't change between the time VII was made and the time IX was made, but what developers could do with it certainly did; Square started on VII in the very early days of the PSX (1994, I believe). By the time they started on IX they understood the workings of the PSX better and could do more things with it.
So its possible they didn't do all they could with it graphics wise. Since Hi res clouds in the game and it could handle that, maybe all hi res models is possible if it wasn't for the damn file sizes.
-
This really isn't my area of expertise! I'm just repeating what I've heard from people that sounded like they knew what they were talking about. :-P
-
This really isn't my area of expertise! I'm just repeating what I've heard from people that sounded like they knew what they were talking about. :-P
Me neither man I'm just learning, i did a few skins for Jedi academy awhile ago the real modeller is currently making a psp game. I don't know what will and won't work.
-
Dang. I'm close on the compression, but about half the reference addresses are wrong. That's really weird.
-
Dang. I'm close on the compression, but about half the reference addresses are wrong. That's really weird.
Could be something to do with the file i sent? ill send another if you want?
-
No. It's nothing to do with your file. I just have to modify the method I made for WM. The address generation is a little different. I didn't have to account for some things that I will now. It's close, but it needs a little teeth yanking.
-
Ok man just checking if you need anything just let us know.
-
Why presume high quality model mods? :-)
Can keep it low and still do some pretty cool stuff! (Monster modding!!)
-
Why presume high quality model mods? :-)
Can keep it low and still do some pretty cool stuff! (Monster modding!!)
Yeah but remember they have to have same animations and everything and because of file sizes there isn't much we can change :(
-
Well you could simplify a complex one, and still make it interesting.......
-
Well you could simplify a complex one, and still make it interesting.......
Maybe, That data before was the battle formations my bad :lol: I will keep looking though!
-
So the goal is to improve model poly count, while keeping it the same size to avoid addressing issues?
Wouldn't it be easier to debug the game with ePSXe and find out the memory codes for in-battle and world models and replace world models with in-battle ones using 'gameshark' ?
-
So the goal is to improve model poly count, while keeping it the same size to avoid addressing issues?
Wouldn't it be easier to debug the game with ePSXe and find out the memory codes for in-battle and world models and replace world models with in-battle ones using 'gameshark' ?
That sounds easy? Im pretty sure gameshark can't do that afterall its only hex editing.
-
im pretty sure, and this may not be the case, but im sure battle models use a different compression method to Field ones. and even if they didn't, The Battle ones would be WAY too large for the field, and the difference in filesize would surely crash the game.
-
I'm beginning to think that the LZS compression method on the wiki is incomplete. It works for compressing the first 4K bytes with no problem, but when it gets larger than that it gets strange. After position 4406 in that file you gave me, the compressed reference doesn't make sense. (it's byte 0xBB0 in Cloud.lzs). That byte corresponds to position 4406 in Cloud.DEC, but the decoded address points to 0xEEF which is neither the first, nor closest, match that the compression should reference. It does match, but I can't tell why it's using that address. Same thing happens later too.
It's going to take a little longer. :(
-
When I was playing around with it, nearly a year ago :-o
i found all models use same compression, but could not be edited due to game reading disc address instead of directories.
But did anyone try to the demo?
Since the FF7 demo came on over 3 different disks, it could be entirely directory based.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
-
I think I know why my method isn't working. Basically, I could be compressing over bytes that have a better match. That doesn't make much sense so here goes:
I have a byte-series at the point where I'm compressing:
05 21 95 A5 4B FF 00 32 43 85 AB CD EF
and somewhere in the file is the following:
05 21 95
However, somewhere else in the file is
21 95 A5 4B FF 00
So my compressed code turns into:
FC XX X0 XX X1 32 43 85 AB CD EF
So the game's code compresses it like this:
FD 05 XX X3 32 43 85 AB CD EF
So it got compressed that block into fewer bytes than I did.
So I got to tackle this differently later today, but that means it's going to take longer to compress. Decompression is still real-time. By the time you've read the compressed file to the end you can have the original file.
-
Awesome man nice work! So itll compress back to its orginal file once you figure all this out?
-
Awesome man nice work! So itll compress back to its orginal file once you figure all this out?
beats me :D I'm just screwing around with it right now. ATM, I compressed the file TOO much and everything's wrong. XD
-
Awesome man nice work! So itll compress back to its orginal file once you figure all this out?
beats me :D I'm just screwing around with it right now. ATM, I compressed the file TOO much and everything's wrong. XD
Ok cool, it sounds like your enjoying yourself while doing it lol.
-
When I was playing around with it, nearly a year ago :-o
i found all models use same compression, but could not be edited due to game reading disc address instead of directories.
...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Sorry. I wasn't ignoring you, but now I know what you're saying. You are correct. It is, for the most part, physical disc address referencing. However, it only points to the start of the file. The goal is to take the compressed file, uncompress it, edit it, then re-compress it to be smaller than or equal to the size of the original compressed file, then inject it back into the disc image. This is a working method and has been done with other files that are accessed in this way.
The trick is that the file that the compressed file begins by telling the loading process its own file length so it's not dependent on the FAT to tell how big the file is. So long as it doesn't overwrite the next physical file it can be safely injected.
-
When I was playing around with it, nearly a year ago :-o
i found all models use same compression, but could not be edited due to game reading disc address instead of directories.
...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Sorry. I wasn't ignoring you, but now I know what you're saying. You are correct. It is, for the most part, physical disc address referencing. However, it only points to the start of the file. The goal is to take the compressed file, uncompress it, edit it, then re-compress it to be smaller than or equal to the size of the original compressed file, then inject it back into the disc image. This is a working method and has been done with other files that are accessed in this way.
The trick is that the file that the compressed file begins by telling the loading process its own file length so it's not dependent on the FAT to tell how big the file is. So long as it doesn't overwrite the next physical file it can be safely injected.
Sounds about right lol, if it reads the same start of the adrdress since it only points to that the game will think its the same file even though it has been edited? It needs to be compressed to the length only at the start of the point? if so thenit might be possible to edit the battle models after all but only small things like hair changes and attire changes nothing drastic as file size is limited. I changed the Cloud in the game with the one in the demo and it didn't crash or hang he was just invisible.
-
I changed the Cloud in the game with the one in the demo and it didn't crash or hang he was just invisible.
Weird... Maybe the models are different? Probably referencing textures that aren't there or labeled something else
LZS Update:
I am very close. My compressed file is 625 bytes (0.94%) larger than the one you gave me (I'm using a two-pass comparison and making some things smaller). That's a compression ratio of 31.56% instead of 32.2%. This is probably small enough for this particular file (they'll each take 33 2K blocks), but for files that are on the edge of their blocks that's insufficient. I'm still working on it so don't fret.
-
I changed the Cloud in the game with the one in the demo and it didn't crash or hang he was just invisible.
Weird... Maybe the models are different? Probably referencing textures that aren't there or labeled something else
Yeah it would be missing alot of animations and file size is alot smaller i just did it really to see if it even loaded the battle and it does. Just thniking if we can get this to work is there a chanceof converting pc models to work with it?
-
LZS Update:
I am very close. My compressed file is 625 bytes (0.94%) larger than the one you gave me (I'm using a two-pass comparison and making some things smaller). That's a compression ratio of 31.56% instead of 32.2%. This is probably small enough for this particular file (they'll each take 33 2K blocks), but for files that are on the edge of their blocks that's insufficient. I'm still working on it so don't fret.
Now I believe I have finished this. I emailed it to ff7rules (at least I think I have) about 15 hours ago, but he hasn't gotten back to me about it. Granted, that's hardly enough time for him to reliably check his email and test it. If anyone else would like a go at an LZS compressor/decompressor, send me a PM or email me.
-
LZS Update:
I am very close. My compressed file is 625 bytes (0.94%) larger than the one you gave me (I'm using a two-pass comparison and making some things smaller). That's a compression ratio of 31.56% instead of 32.2%. This is probably small enough for this particular file (they'll each take 33 2K blocks), but for files that are on the edge of their blocks that's insufficient. I'm still working on it so don't fret.
Now I believe I have finished this. I emailed it to ff7rules (at least I think I have) about 15 hours ago, but he hasn't gotten back to me about it. Granted, that's hardly enough time for him to reliably check his email and test it. If anyone else would like a go at an LZS compressor/decompressor, send me a PM or email me.
I just got on now and saw the email lol. I haven't been on much have had to train for a boxing match so i haven't had much time i will test it now though and reply with the results thanks again man.
EDIT First 10 minutes of using it everything seems to work :-) decompression is perfect i haven't tried compression yet though, but yeah everything seems great thanks allot!
EDIT2: WOW it works in game but there is one problem! look at the screenshots to see it
(http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/itworks-tX8YO.png)
Hes petrify because of stone glare nothing to do with the mod. Speaking of mods i guess you just made one the no weapon mod :D First mod ever for the PSX version its a start ;) Anyway it all works except his victory dance but I'm guessing thats something to do with him not having a weapon to he starts to swing nothing then disappears. BUT what is really promising is again NO crashes no hangs it just loads it.
EDIT3 : (http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/thisgetsbetterandbetter-HSqy1.png) AWESOME this really is getting good everything works except his limits but i think if i changed him to Vincent that wouldn't be an issue.
EDIT4: This is really getting to awesome to describe in words so ill let the screenshot do it.
(http://www.imagenerd.com/uploads/whatselenadoingthere-ndMGI.png)
Yep she works but only that stance nothing more.
-
This is great! :-D
You guys are officially the first successful PSX-FF7-Modders!
-
This is great! :-D
You guys are officially the first successful PSX-FF7-Modders!
I wouldn't say we are the first but i think we are definetly getting somewhere just replaced sephiroth with vincent works 100% you could play the whole game with him in battle..... if you disable his limit breaks.
-
Yeah, I can't see the model converting working completely, so custom models are not a possibility just yet.
Here's the problem:
LZS -> FF7 3D -> Generic 3D (for editing) -> FF7 3D -> LZS
-
Yeah, I can't see the model converting working completely, so custom models are not a possibility just yet.
Here's the problem:
LZS -> FF7 3D -> Generic 3D (for editing) -> FF7 3D -> LZS
Well maybe in the future if bitturn can display the bones and keep the animation data and write to LZs its possible? and like you just said maybe a Pc to PSX model converter i don't know the limits of the psx though.
-
Is it possible to add new texture files into PSX version? If yes then it is the best way to enhance the models.
FF7 models suck because (except for the eyes and mouth) they are vertex colored instead of being textured. Further, these textures of the eyes and mouth are in very low resolution 128x128 or even smaller. Parasite Eve and FF8 models are way better because they are well textured.
A 8-bit color 512x512 texture file only has 257KB. So if you only do 9 primary characters and sephiroth you only need to add 10 textures which are in total only 2 to 3 MB.
From what I read in this topic I have to say that the PC version is far more friendly to mod than the PSX version. It can eat almost everything ( max cap at 2 to the power of 64 polygons ) and with high resolution patch I can even throw in textures with resolution like 1024x1024. My char.lgp is now like 90 MB ( the original is 47 MB ) and the game still runs perfect.
-
You can't increase the file-size of the files, so improving textures are a no-go really.
I'd have thought adding textures could also slow down the game quite significantly too...
-
FF7 models suck because (except for the eyes and mouth) they are vertex colored instead of being textured. Further, these textures of the eyes and mouth are in very low resolution 128x128 or even smaller. Parasite Eve and FF8 models are way better because they are well textured.
Because of this, FFVII could very well have been Squaresoft's swansong. This is what they get for being lazy and not wanting to upgrade their models when they knew it was going to the PSX.
-
Because of this, FFVII could very well have been Squaresoft's swansong. This is what they get for being lazy and not wanting to upgrade their models when they knew it was going to the PSX.
Do you mean that they made the models when it was still being planned for the N64? If that's the case I can understand why they would have to stay away from something that takes up so much storage space.
-
Because of this, FFVII could very well have been Squaresoft's swansong. This is what they get for being lazy and not wanting to upgrade their models when they knew it was going to the PSX.
Do you mean that they made the models when it was still being planned for the N64? If that's the case I can understand why they would have to stay away from something that takes up so much storage space.
Yup. I have no reason to doubt this (http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7/History). It makes complete sense too, seeing as how FFVIII and IX looked infinitely better and VII looks like something designed to work on the N64.
-
I never knew the cartridges had a limit of 32MB; I always thought it was 64MB. In any case, far too small.
-
I never knew the cartridges had a limit of 32MB; I always thought it was 64MB. In any case, far too small.
Initially it was 32MB. Some of the later ones (Resident Evil, Pokemon Stadium 2, Paper Mario, etc.) have exceptions with larger or multiple chips in them. With the technology now, though, the entireties of FFVII, VIII, AND IX could be put in a single (8GB) cartridge. Of course, then the media itself would still cost >$10, not to mention the licenses for each individual game.
-
When I was playing around with it, nearly a year ago :-o
i found all models use same compression, but could not be edited due to game reading disc address instead of directories.
...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Sorry. I wasn't ignoring you, but now I know what you're saying. You are correct. It is, for the most part, physical disc address referencing. However, it only points to the start of the file. The goal is to take the compressed file, uncompress it, edit it, then re-compress it to be smaller than or equal to the size of the original compressed file, then inject it back into the disc image. This is a working method and has been done with other files that are accessed in this way.
The trick is that the file that the compressed file begins by telling the loading process its own file length so it's not dependent on the FAT to tell how big the file is. So long as it doesn't overwrite the next physical file it can be safely injected.
Why go through the hassle of attempting to fit a highres file into the same amount of space rather than just append the hi-res models unto the end of the disk, and redirect the disc addresses via gameshark? :?
-
LZS Update:
I am very close. My compressed file is 625 bytes (0.94%) larger than the one you gave me (I'm using a two-pass comparison and making some things smaller). That's a compression ratio of 31.56% instead of 32.2%. This is probably small enough for this particular file (they'll each take 33 2K blocks), but for files that are on the edge of their blocks that's insufficient. I'm still working on it so don't fret.
Now I believe I have finished this. I emailed it to ff7rules (at least I think I have) about 15 hours ago, but he hasn't gotten back to me about it. Granted, that's hardly enough time for him to reliably check his email and test it. If anyone else would like a go at an LZS compressor/decompressor, send me a PM or email me.
nfitc1! check your e-mail ([email protected]). I really want to try your LZS compressor/decompressor. Im working on the psx version too! & I now fall in the same problem as ff7rules.
-
OK...
First of all, don't post in old topics.
Secondly, I think he released it; check the bottom of this post (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=7928.msg95448#msg95448)
-
im glad someone revived this :P i was hoping it would be breakthrough news though.
Gamefac your working on the psx version too yeah? what you doing to it our goals might just be the same.
-
Okay thanks Kudistos Megistos. I now have the program in my possession
Yeah, im working on the psx version. I love FF7 so much I play during my sleep hour. I play FF7 wherever i go, because I have a psp, and FF7 on the go is win. I wonder what's your reason for modding the psx version ff7rules?
Anyway, I've been lurking for about a month before i came out of the shadow (only because I was confused as hell when i got deep into modding). My goal is to replace the default monsters on the world map for better much more bad ass looking monsters (like: Ultimate, Diamond, Emerald, Ruby Weapon, Black Cape Sephiroth, Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Cid, etc.).
Now the reason why I wanted the LZS Compress/DECompressor was because I want to compress the hero LZS files (Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Vincent etc..), so that I can replace default LZS monster with let say a Cloud LZS file.
I can fight enemy Cloud, I can make enemy Cloud attack and cast magic. I can do all of that. IF i can just compress Cloud's LZS file. At this very moment, I can't make the size KB any lesser then the default.. http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8810.0 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8810.0)
Help me vets. :(
-
Well we have the same goals my friend :) our reasons are the same
Also you manged to make cloud use magic and attack? did he have a weapon and would it just freeze after you attacked him?
Also one very interesting point ill make the demo cloud model worked in clouds stead so you COULD maybe use that.
-
I mod the FFVII psx version
--
#1 Yes, I can make enemy cloud does his casting animation & attacking animation.
- He does not have his weapon (though I see his buster sword @ a random spot when I cast KOTR).
- Cloud does freeze when I attack him. So what I do is, I put another monster next to him and I attack that monster. and when that monster hp gets to zero, the battle ends (imagine the turks battle. you kill 1/3 turk members, the battle ends).
- Now I can't just leave enemy Cloud alone during a battle, what if I accidently attack enemy Cloud? the game would freeze & the battle would just not be fun right? Answer: Yes, which is why I have a solution to that problem. I make Cloud invisible, which means you could still see enemy Cloud's graphic, but cannot be touched by anything.. Magic/Summons/Items/Odin 1KO etc.. This is what I have to do since I can't find a solution to the freezing problem. If you got a better idea of how to make an interesting enemy Cloud fight please voice your ideas :)
#2 I'd like to try your demo Cloud, maybe I can discover something new for everyone. thanks