Author Topic: The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST  (Read 25998 times)

The Skillster

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Hello.
Kinda decided to pick up Elentor's Hardcore scene.bin
( http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=4357 )
and continued editing the enemies in it.

Ver 0.01d:

Minor update;
Changed items on Bullmotor and Sandworm
Changed Speed and Mag Def of above


Ver 0.01c:

Minor update;
Fixed the elemental weakness bug that Scenester causes in most of the file I have edited so far.
Advised to post Patches instead of whole Scene.bin files for legality reasons.


Ver 0.01b:

Taken on board the advice about stealing decent items as well as morphing enemies into decent items.
Changed all the enemies accordingly that I had edited in the previous patch (Corel to the destroyed reactor town - Gongaga?)

Reduced the stats for Jenove-Birth so you do have a fighting chance as well as elemental weaknesses.

Big surprise when fighting the Land Worm (Corel Prison) - Very Hard (But Worth the items).
Dyne - Watch Out! If this works properly you will get a nice ambush!

Again I have added more Elemental Weaknesses.


Any feedback is Welcomed!

Ver 0.01a:

From after Jenova Birth up to Turks Rude and Reno (scene 124-135)
I have been basically doubling most stats - including Level
(exception being the bosses - even harder - and piss easy enemies).
Added some elemental double damage attributes to a couple of enemies.
Removed most items dropped, stolen or morphed to mainly Potions/Hi Potions/Ethers/Pheonix Downs (some exceptions).

I HAVE NOT TESTED ALL OF THE GAME USING IT.

So please can you kind folks give me some feedback (hope it works).

LATEST VERSION 0.01c
This is the file to patch an ORIGINAL scene.bin file
http://parvez-halim.demonweb.co.uk/skillster_0_01_d_full.exe

This is to upgrade from ver 0.02b (about 20KB and the above patch is 100KB)
http://parvez-halim.demonweb.co.uk/skillster_0_01_d_upgrade.exe

Thanks to my friend for lending me his webspace, please visit his blog here:
http://parvez-halim.demonweb.co.uk/
Very interesting and diverse look at life!

hay

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #1 on: 2005-10-17 11:57:07 »
As I know there already exists mod that doubles stats of enemies.
http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=4470

The Skillster

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #2 on: 2005-10-17 12:26:17 »
as far as I think I am concerned, the author quotes his game is difficult but not impossible, and that no levelling up is required.
I want to reach a level where leveling up is almost essential if you want to win without luck.

If people play RPGs like FF4/5 or Xenogears, then you might understand what difficulty should be.

Anyways on a side note, I have been editing the scene.bin looking for how to unlock the formations (the dialog in scenster program doesnt allow you to add more enemies then there is already),

I noticed the formations are in the scene file (extracted from scene.bin).

Starts at 0x108 and ends at 0x297 there is room for 4 sets per scene file.

Note you cant have enemy IDs that are not present in that scene file.
Here is the example of a 5 man formation:
Code: [Select]
                        52 00 24 FA 00 00 5C F9
01 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF 53 00 20 03 00 00 24 FA
01 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF 53 00 08 07 00 00 84 F8
02 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF 52 00 50 FB 00 00 1C F3
02 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF 53 00 14 05 00 00 48 F4
02 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF


This is at 0x178 of scene file 119.
Where the 52s and 53s are enemy IDs If you fill the preceeding 00 with FF you will disable that enemy from the formation (ie remove).
After this is a few lines of FF which is just to fill the gap before the next formation or section. You can just paste the next enemy data from the line above into the line after this and you will now have 6 enemies if you check this file with Scenester.
EDIT: Also the 01s and 02s at the start of the line indicated Front Row (01) and Back Row (02) Just so you know.

I havent yet tested this in game, so please let me know if it is ok to use.

Just so you know, I might include some more enemies alongside bosses, or a very tough group of 5-6 baddies in one go :) tastey!

Kiggles

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #3 on: 2005-10-17 18:01:18 »
Hey, you're welcome to do what you want with your scene.bin edit. So I don't mean to suggest you NEED to do any of the following (although I apologize if I word it to sound that way). Just consider the following.

Cutting stealable items to generic restorative items across the board, ON TOP of doubling enemy levels will literally kill the usefullness of the Steal command. The success rate of Steal is dependant upon the Stealing character's level, and the target's level. The greater the discrepancy, the higher/lower the success. By doubling the enemy level 'stat', you are effectively doubling steal's fail rate. On top of doubled statistics, stealing ONE potion, after 20 attempts, and over 1000 HP, and 30 MP later, you have one extremely worthles piece of materia.

Do youself a favor. Don't limit the player's options even further than they already are in such a traditional RPG. As it stands, whether you are attacking with the fight command, or a spell, the depth of Final Fantasy's IN BATTLE strategies largely boils down to "Attack, heal when weak." The better you can manage the balance between these two actions, the farther you will go without "botting" for experience. Chance commands like D.Blow, and Steal are there for situational bonuses. If you are doubling EVERY enemy's evade% without regard, you ruin the usefulness of the D.blow materia. You argue that the result is a more risky command? I say you miss the point of scenario design. D.Blow is just a special piece of equipment you use when you encounter an enemy with extremely low evade. Yes, you will deliberately make an enemy with extremely low evade percent, so you can encourage the player to think. Maybe it has very high phys and magic defense, and even a generous helping of HPs, so if you even gave it an element weakness, you would still hardly even deal average damage. How in the world do you make an interesting fight out of something that ammounts to 500 Fight selects, and 120 Cure selects, and 310 Fire2 selects? Well, you drop the enemy's evade stat to near 0, give a player the Deathblow materia, an elemental materia, and a fire materia, and the problem solves itself, but only if the player thinks, and experiments. D.blow + Elemental+ Fire = 4x damage per turn. The remaining characters could still be casting Fire 2. You could either gain 3 more levels, and then simply spam Fire2 with all three characters, or give the player outlets for creativity.

Thus killing the Steal command is counter-productive. FF7 have very limited options during battles. All strategy comes pre-encounter, but the one trick Steal has over all other commands in the FF series, is it unifies ALL encounters in a larger whole. By stealing, instead of buying a weapon, you 'save' money, which can be used toward purchasing consumables. By stealing consumables, instead of buying them, you save money which can be used toward buying unstealable armors. By allowing 90% of the enemies to have USEFUL drop items, you challenge the player to risk the damage. Steal will not be manditory. You can always buy those ethers at town. You do not need that Mithril Sword, because you can just it 5 feet away at Kalm. Let the player have the option to Steal, instead of buying everything, though. Give that command SOME sort of usefulness. If it is at all possible, even make it an attack command like was done in FFX. You don't have to go so far as to make the steal command completely kill certain enemies all together (although, that was the basis for FFX's random encounter strategy. Utilizing each character's stregths to exploit enemy weaknesses, which 90% of all enemies had SOME weakness), but IF it is possible, provide some extremely high defense enemies with a 'stealable' armor, at near 100% success. Get a piece of equipment, which might suck balls, but also drop the enemy's physical (and/or magic) defense by 100%. There are alternitives to the steal command, other than just getting the occassional bonus weapon. It depends whether or not there are provisions within the code to allow for such modifications.

If there are none, do NOT kill the Steal command. It already sucks enough as it is, since it gets one REALLY good run of usefulness near the end, and then becomes absolutely useless. If the ONLY thing you can steal (save 5 ONLY stealable weapons/armors) are items that can't even restore the damage you sustained while trying to steal it, you completely raped an already hurting command materia. It takes up a materia slot. Give the player SOME sort of reason to waste that space, other than to deliberately criple him/her self. Thos 5 rare items do NOT justify the existance of steal, materia, because players will ALWAYS have steal materia equipped during the fights which harbor those rare items. When an option becomes a non-option (you have no other choice), it isn't a justification. It just is. Provide the player options for stealing buyable items/weapons/armor, around the area in which they can buy them.

You don't have to go overboard. Maybe one weapon the player can pick up from a boss one area prior. Maybe an enemy in between have armor that will soon be buyable. Maybe an enemy not long afterward will have a weapon you could have just purchased. Not everything has to be stealable, but most things should. Same thing goes for Morph. I am not as fond of the materia, but if the player is going to spend about as much time trying to deal the final blow with 1/10-20th the damage, give them something back for their time and effort, instead of a kick in the nuts. "Potion"? I'll tell you what I see whenever I steal or morph an enemy into a potion. "Fuck you". Yeah, it is alright from time to time. Like I said, it is risky, but you CAN'T make it risky just to steal an item AT ALL, and then turn around and kill any reason to have tried to begin with.

Double fail rate...?  Sigh. Fine. I personally think it is  a pain in the ass, instead of challening, but I would rather spend my time in one fight to "earn" a new weapon, instead of spending just as much, if not more time farming gil from enemies. Bear in mind, each time a player decides to steal, instead of farm for money, they hurt their EXP gain. Someone who progresses through the game, stealing from every enemy, and harvesting rare items for money, or just to upgrade their party's armor, will be suficeintly lower leveled that the folks who spent half an hour accumulating enough money to buy a new sword.

So please, think about the thieves. Not every one enjoys using the Fight command all of the time. :)

The Skillster

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #4 on: 2005-10-17 18:49:52 »
Hi thanks for posting, but I am not going to read all of that.
Put it this way, I have played through Elentor's Hard mode scene.bin and I enjoyed it (except for the No1 Reactor at the start of the game).

So Hence I am continuing the editing of the bin file.
the evade hasnt changed, levels have doubled, but you need to realise the player has to be at around the level 20 mark after beating Jenova*birth, and now most are the enemies in the proceeding area are around the 40 mark. originally you might beat jenova and be at about the 15-17mark and the enemies are about 20-30 so there isnt much difference.

I dont belive in changing the evasion rates, not this early in the game.
Plus removing the equiptment and offensive items as well as the stronger healing items again increases the difficulty level, making the player depend more on tents and cure-all and trusty potions (what are they?).

This all adds to the energy of the game, players replaying the game will just be going through the motions, but hopefully this edit will make them work through the game.
Hence the name, if you dont like it - then its not for you.
And attack isnt so good in this, magic and summons as well as a good stock of limit breaks are the order of the day.

your evil twin

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #5 on: 2005-10-17 21:13:26 »
I actually rather like Kiggles' suggestion of improving the items that you can steal from enemies/morph them into.  Would justify the fact it is even harder to steal from an enemy because their level has been increased.

I hardly ever used steal when I played the game... if I had thought I could get some cool weapons or armour for free then it might have been worth my while.  Obviously not awesome items... just things more useful than simple potions or elixirs or whatever.  (Heh, would be cool if you could steal materia, don't think that's possible.)

Alternatively... isn't it impossible to increase the HP and attack damage of enemies without actually increasing their level?  Would mean that the chance of stealing/morphing an enemy would remain the same (but stealing/morphing the enemy would be twice as risky due to the increased health and dangerousness of the enemy).

hay

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #6 on: 2005-10-17 21:19:27 »
Quote from: your evil twin
Alternatively... isn't it impossible to increase the HP and attack damage of enemies without actually increasing their level? Would mean that the chance of stealing/morphing an enemy would remain the same (but stealing/morphing the enemy would be twice as risky due to the increased health and dangerousness of the enemy).

It is possible... Each stats are independent from each other.

your evil twin

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #7 on: 2005-10-17 21:26:55 »
Hmm, I'm wondering whether to go for Skillster's 'hardcore' mod or hay's 'reasonable' mod.

I consider myself pretty 'hardcore' but if in the 'hardcore' mod you have to run around loads more doing random battles just so that you are tough enough to take on the enemies then I don't think I can be bothered.  I never enjoyed running aroud the place to level up, I just wanted to progress through the game and enjoy the wonderful story.

I want a tough timebeating the regular enemies but not have it so tough that I dont' have a chance to beat them unless I'm a much higher level.  I guess I want to replay the game again and have it be harder... but not have to spend a longer amount of time playing it. :)

Heh.  I think its cool that we are getting a choice of different game modifications though.

hay

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #8 on: 2005-10-17 21:31:09 »
there's also smithie and his 2x mod :)

Quote from: your evil twin
I guess I want to replay the game again and have it be harder... but not have to spend a longer amount of time playing it.

You don't have a choice. Harder battles requires some more time it could be 'tons' of time more or just some minutes :)

Kiggles

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #9 on: 2005-10-17 21:52:43 »
Fair enough, Skillster. :) Thought I would throw out some suggestions, but in the end, it's your work. Take it the direction you're most interested in. :)

your evil twin

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« Reply #10 on: 2005-10-17 21:56:38 »
Quote from: hay
You don't have a choice. Harder battles requires some more time it could be 'tons' of time more or just some minutes :)


Well of course the actual battles will take longer if the enemeis are tougher, I mean I don't want to have to go and do extra running-around-the-world-map-levelling-up as well before I can dare attempt the battles. :)  Easy battles should be made hard, battles that are already hard should be left pretty much the same.

hay

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #11 on: 2005-10-17 22:05:02 »
In ff7 there are not many hard fights excluding Ruby ;] and Don Corneo's flying freak... Rapps was it?

Kiggles

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #12 on: 2005-10-17 22:20:12 »
Quote from: hay
In ff7 there are not many hard fights excluding Ruby ;] and Don Corneo's flying freak... Rapps was it?
He just did lots of damage. Element + Chocomog on a characters armor helped waste some of Rapps' turns. Otherwise, it didn't have enough HPs to be a big threat. Those Bolt/Fire3 items you can buy in Wutai are real handy. :)

Anyway, regarding Easy battles made hard, and hard battles left unchanged... I don't think that is the best way to go about things. A variety of encounters is extrmely important. If absolutely EVERY encounter is a fight for your life, or even requires you undivided attention, it becomes redundant. Mixing in the occassional, albeit fairly rare encounter of fodder is important to the overall enjoyment of the game. Some batch of critters you can just charge through by holding the accept button are fine, but only used sparingly. Everything else may not even need to be more difficult, but simply more varied. Making critters tougher, but giving them varied and perhaps unexpected weaknesses makes the game refreshing, and encourages the player to think. Brute force leveling up could still solve the problems, but leaving the resourceful player an out is much more enjoyable. :)

Anyway, this doesn't really aply to Skillster's mod (too much). He has tweaked element weaknesses, so the adjustments aren't just a universal 2x stat boost, but I believe I get the impression he really wants to make FF7 play along the lines of SMT: Nocturne, in difficulty, where just about every single fight could send you to an unexpected Game Over screen. Maybe not. I don't want to suggest what Skillster's goals are incorrectly, but I don't believe he intends to just balance out the rest of the fights to be on par with some of the more difficult encounters. If anything, I believe one of the primary goals is to make some of the supposedly harder fights (particularly bosses) MUCH more challenging, while the rest of the critters don't change too drastically. Again. I am only making assumtions.

hay

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #13 on: 2005-10-17 22:38:41 »
I meant flying pet of Corneo when Yuffie stole your materia and you don't have any of it :)
There's also Barret's Mindblow that wipes MP of flying freak :)

Kiggles... You're damn amazing :D Like demagogue leaving those who read your posts overwhelmed ;] You've got some secret containers with vein or something? :D

Marc

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #14 on: 2005-10-18 00:03:32 »
I played Elementor's scene.bin to test it out orginally and really liked it.  However, all the enemies after the first reactor up until the end of his game had a flaw : the dropped items all converted to potions due to a bug in m4v3r's sceneedit that was since fixed (I think).  I was just wondering if that was fixed in this version ?

The Skillster

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« Reply #15 on: 2005-10-18 09:27:34 »
was that supposed to happen? I felt it made the game ALOT harder, since you had to stock up at the nearest shop full of tents and pheonix downs to survive certain areas?

OK, I take back some of the comments about Elentor's Patch -
Some of the boss fights ARE stonking hard, I just managed to beat Jenova-Birth this morning, and heres how:
I got onto the boat at level 17, got wooped inside 3 rounds by Jenova.
Leveled up to 18 and still got beat.
Got to 19 (got Blade beam for cloud and Fire2 by now) and beat her on the 2nd attempt (only cloud attacking the other 2 curing).

I have to admit, Fire2 was doing about 200HP damage and she has 6000HP! Summons did about 300, limits 400.
Jenova was far too fast getting off about 3 hits per turn (3x W laser or 2xtail laser) and doing 250 per W laser and 150 each with Tail Laser.

So that needs fixing as that was far too hard.

Ok so I checked some of the monsters in the Corel region of my patch.
Not too bad, the fight is a few rounds longer, but requires you to keep your eye on your HP, if it drops to less then half you need to Cure All, or those Thunder Kisses (lighting birds) are fast and can cause a rout if you are not watching your HP.

I will look at the stealing actually, since it is mighty difficult in Elentor's mod to steal It maybe worthwhile to change the items around so you could get a strong offensive item or even equiptment (especially on bosses).

But for the moment, these modifications I am making
(Corel to the destroyed reactor where you fight the turks),
is just the get a feel of what is a good difficulty level and what isnt.

I also want to bring characteristics of each enemy to light.
Some are stronger in some areas than others, such as Mdef or Str.
I want to amplify these to make each enemey unique and have to be dealt with in a certain way.
But of course this will be one of the last things I do to it.

Marc

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #16 on: 2005-10-18 23:32:55 »
I didn't get to the first Jenova last time I played but I was close to it.  As for the  items, I agree that can make the game more challenging but getting some items would be nice such as the spirit charm thing after the fight with rufus and etc.

For most of these, you can't get them anywhere else so I think they shouldn't be omitted.  As for the tents and stuff like that, I do think it adds to the challenge though.

The Skillster

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« Reply #17 on: 2005-10-19 07:44:24 »
what spirit charm?
Rufus didnt drop anything other than potion with Elentor's patch, so I missed that

EmperorSteele

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #18 on: 2005-10-19 09:54:24 »
I think he originally drops a Protect vest.  I dunno what this "Charm" is, either =/

The Skillster

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The Skillster's FF7 Hardcore mode ver 0.01d LATEST
« Reply #19 on: 2005-10-19 10:13:55 »
Having played some more today I noticed a few more things:
When you SENSE enemies, you get the correct Level HP and MP.
But elemental weaknesses that you manually add do not show.
There could be 2 reasons, the application I used to put them in did it incorrectly (I will confirm this by looking at the data in a hex viewer) or the Monsters have all this additional info about them hardcoded to automatically display after the normal level hp and mp info shows.

About stealing, the default rates are about 17-28% on most monsters.
That means it may take up to 9 attempts to steal something!
I find that amazing, since you are sacrificing a character's turn to steal
and this has to change.
I am looking at increasing the steal rate to around 40% since if you are getting clattered by damn hard enemies it should be the foolhardy folks who risk getting a kick up the backside to steal from the monsters! :)


EDIT:

I did find a bug in scenester:
When setting a element to do double damage, it should be stored as 0x02 but in Jenova and Thunder Kiss they are stored as 0x03 which isnt anything to FF7!
So this is going to be quite difficult to debug :(
 Thank God I have only done like 15 scene files...

The Skillster

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« Reply #20 on: 2005-10-19 21:18:28 »
I finally used a old save to take on Dyne in Corel Prison.
(I save old save, It has cloud at Level 17!)
Funny, I edited the formation to have two bullmotors alongside Dyne.
Strangly there must be settings to set the X Y co-ordinates or 1 of a few set positions, since they all (2 bullmotors and dyne) were overlapping each other!
http://parvez-halim.demonweb.co.uk/ff7formation.jpg
I will keep working on this

Relf

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« Reply #21 on: 2005-10-19 22:36:54 »
I was just wondering, can you also edit the number of people in your party?

The Skillster

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« Reply #22 on: 2005-10-19 23:14:24 »
you mean enable or disable party members so you get 2 or 1 player in your party?
That needs to be done via the save game file, or a real time trainer program.

Relf

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« Reply #23 on: 2005-10-20 00:28:55 »
I was particularly interested in adding another character to the party (would really nned a difficulty patch than) because I hate having to decide between Red XIII and Cid.

Genji

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« Reply #24 on: 2005-10-20 06:59:07 »
Hello everyone.

I really like this project. And since I'm hardcore FF player, I can provide some bosses info that can be useful.

For example : everyone knows that Jenova-Life has only Water-based attack, and you can get Water Ring right before fight with her. Do you have any suggestions to make her hard except not equiping Water Ring. And btw she has only 300 MP. 3 Magic Hammers make her helpless to the end of the battle.

Then here goes Schizo. Fire and Aurora armlets and Magic Hammer = dead.
Jenova-Death - Fire Ring, Fire Armlet plus Magic Hammer = dead.
Carry Armor - dead Arms and no MP for Lapis Lazer = dead.

Ok, thats over for now.....

[EDIT]
BTW, Some bosses what vulnurable to Poison have one back door.
If they poisoned and have 7777 HP, it's will trigger All 7 attack, they will attack you once dealing 7777 dmg even through Barrier and then die from poison. It's happens not too often, but I think it's can be abusable if enemy have more than 7777 HP.