You're american, so you fear nothing

[guitar_dudester91]

Well its a little hard to argue with a bunch of english ninnies about something none of us experienced. Clearly thinking I had any chance of successfully arguing a point with people who hate Americans with a passion wasn't the right thing to do. It does make me wonder what a Marine would have to say about any of it.

[Bosola]

ninnies

MeOW!

[sl1982]

Well its a little hard to argue with a bunch of english ninnies about something none of us experienced. Clearly thinking I had any chance of successfully arguing a point with people who hate Americans with a passion wasn't the right thing to do. It does make me wonder what a Marine would have to say about any of it.

Something about jackwagons i reckon.

[guitar_dudester91]

Well its a little hard to argue with a bunch of english ninnies about something none of us experienced. Clearly thinking I had any chance of successfully arguing a point with people who hate Americans with a passion wasn't the right thing to do. It does make me wonder what a Marine would have to say about any of it.

Something about jackwagons i reckon.

Haha well an Ex-Marine therapist wasn't exactly what I had in mind.

[Kudistos Megistos]

Well its a little hard to argue with a bunch of english ninnies about something none of us experienced. Clearly thinking I had any chance of successfully arguing a point with people who hate Americans with a passion wasn't the right thing to do.

And it's more than a little hard to argue with someone whose knowledge of history is taken from Jerry Bruckheimer films.

But yeah, we must hate America if we insist on correcting lies. After all, lies are what patriotism is built on. If we correct lies, we are attacking the very foundations of patriotism!

There's something very Stephen Colbert about that...

It does make me wonder what a Marine would have to say about any of it.

This is a hideously obvious attempt to get obesebear to use his mod powers on me just because I challenged the belief that the US has won every single war it has ever fought single-handedly and is the sole saviour and protector of Western civilisation to which we are forever indebted.

I do hope he won't fall for it.

I also wish Hermoor was back. I'd like to see what he'd make of all this. You two could have had a competition to see who knows the least about history and geopolitics and who has the most unwarranted jingoistic beliefs.

[guitar_dudester91]

No actually, I just wanted to know what his opinion was. And you'er still falling back to hermoor? Wasn't that joke voted stupid a few weeks ago?

[obesebear]

Seems I have been beckoned to this thread.  Therefore I shall dispense upon thee my feelings on this matter...

I don't really give a shit about history.

Now then, please continue.

[nfitc1]

That's the way capitalism works (it's an overrated system). You, the marketer, make the consumer think that they either can't live without or will be happier with whatever you're trying to sell. In the worst cases, marketers try to convince you that you AREN'T REALLY HAPPY and that their goods can fill a void YOU DIDN'T KNOW YOU HAD!! I HATE watching commercials on TV because of that. There have never been informative commercials. They're always trying to show people happier or more successful because they own things. I'm much more socialist anyway. Lots of people in the US would love to be socialist. When 90% of a country's wealth is being held by 3% of its population you have an unbalanced system.

American conspicuous consumption, retarded though it is, is what makes the US economy so strong and so conducive to innovation. If people were happy with what they already had, we'd have no need to improve anything. Just look at how much the home PC market has changed in the past 20 years; there's no way that would have been possible if people weren't constantly looking for something better. If it weren't for that American attitude, we'd all still be paying $2000 for desktops with a 1GB HDD. Mass-market laptops probably wouldn't exist.

Sure, some people get exploited, but no-one forces anyone to buy anything. If you're too stupid to see through advertising BS and thus get tricked into spending all your money on things that you don't really want, then you deserve to be a tool for making ambitious business and engineering ventures financially viable.

But the average John Q Public doesn't care about bettering themselves, just making themselves happy. Just as the upper echelon of the country's population has 90% of its wealth, another upper echelon (mostly apart from the rich one) has 90% of its intelligence too. The US's economy is strong by exploiting the weak and feeble-minded into getting things to make them "happy" rather than to make them better people. The nation itself isn't really evolving and this upper intelligence echelon that is in power are really the ones that direct the country's development.

[Mako]

Seems I have been beckoned to this thread.  Therefore I shall dispense upon thee my feelings on this matter...

I don't really give a sh*t about history.

Now then, please continue.

Damn you and your super short ninja posts Obesebear! Did you ever stop to think for once, that people (like myself) like to read your posts! I think your being stingy

If I may be so bold here, I see this thread has words like: "ninnies" and "jackwagon" and even "upper echelon" now I hate to get all your hopes up but...
WHO THE HELL KNOWS WHO DID WHAT!. After the wikileaks documentation was released who knows what really goes on behind the scenes, all of you only go by what little is released in the media or internet. Point is pride, I would incite a massive flame war if I said "US would wipe the whole of Europe off the face of the globe without breaking a sweat!" would I be right? probably. But that would mean less for us (USA) decreasing our "power" as a country. We are a global economy we NEED each other, no country can stand alone, every country needs to import and export from other country/s.

NO COUNTRY HAS THE POWER TO STAND ALONE.

So calm down peeps the song is just your typical US propaganda, every country has one or two.

[Covarr]

So calm down peeps

This is one of the best posts I've ever seen in a political thread on any forum ever.

I've noticed that when politics are involved, folks have a tendency to get angry if you simply disagree with them. This whole thread is filled with name-calling and aggression. Honestly, you embarrass yourselves when you behave like this. Besides, the vast majority of people who argue about politics have NO IDEA how any of it works, or what actually goes on in various offices.

In the US, the loudest Democrats (such as Bill Maher) despise George W Bush, speak out with contempt against him, treat him as either the most evil or the most stupid president ever to live. The loudest Republicans (such as Bill O'Reilly) do the same for Barack Obama. But these presidents, no matter how different their views, would never say something like this about each other. They understand the efforts that each other have put in, the difficulty of the work, and they realize that even though they have different opinions on what the country needs, they're both trying to do what they feel is right.

These guys know how to behave in a respectful manner. Let's see if we can follow that example.

[Kudistos Megistos]

No actually, I just wanted to know what his opinion was.

Sure you were

And you'er still falling back to hermoor? Wasn't that joke voted stupid a few weeks ago?

I don't recall a democratic election. Not that it would matter if there were one; comparing someone to Hermoor is still this forum's equivalent of comparing someone to Hitler.

I don't really give a sh*t about history

But you should know better than that, bear-kun. You've been to the Middle-East, right? What's going on in that part of the world is a classic example of what happens when history is used as a propaganda tool.

But the average John Q Public doesn't care about bettering themselves, just making themselves happy. Just as the upper echelon of the country's population has 90% of its wealth, another upper echelon (mostly apart from the rich one) has 90% of its intelligence too. The US's economy is strong by exploiting the weak and feeble-minded into getting things to make them "happy" rather than to make them better people. The nation itself isn't really evolving and this upper intelligence echelon that is in power are really the ones that direct the country's development.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Point is pride, I would incite a massive flame war if I said "US would wipe the whole of Europe off the face of the globe without breaking a sweat!" would I be right? probably.

Any of the established nuclear powers could send any of the others back to the Stone Age. Mutually assured destruction FTW! 

So calm down peeps

This is one of the best posts I've ever seen in a political thread on any forum ever.

I've noticed that when politics are involved, folks have a tendency to get angry if you simply disagree with them. This whole thread is filled with name-calling and aggression. Honestly, you embarrass yourselves when you behave like this. Besides, the vast majority of people who argue about politics have NO IDEA how any of it works, or what actually goes on in various offices.

Pfft. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm just having fun here. It's rare for me to be seriously bothered by arguments on the internet.

In the US, the loudest Democrats (such as Bill Maher) despise George W Bush, speak out with contempt against him, treat him as either the most evil or the most stupid president ever to live. The loudest Republicans (such as Bill O'Reilly) do the same for Barack Obama. But these presidents, no matter how different their views, would never say something like this about each other. They understand the efforts that each other have put in, the difficulty of the work, and they realize that even though they have different opinions on what the country needs, they're both trying to do what they feel is right.

Sounds boring.

In Britain, leading politicians, including the Prime Minister, openly insult each other, to each others' faces, live on TV. It's very entertaining.

You should start doing that in the US. The ratings would be incredible.

[Bosola]

I can't help suspect KM would be far less optimistic about the efficiency of the private sector if he'd worked with some of the 'big guns' as clients. They really aren't the rigorously organized, efficient and entrepreneurial machines you think. And I'm talking about IT - if these guys can't innovate, we're all MAKOed!

But that is a matter for another time, and maybe more concerns large vs small than public vs private.

Oh, and I like how guitar_man_9001 or whatever thinks admins take kindly to some pretty transparent attempts at manipulation. Back in the days I was a moderator (reclines in chair, places pipe in mouth), that usually meant first place on our MAKOlist.

We really didn't appreciate it.

In Britain, leading politicians, including the Prime Minister, openly insult each other, to each others' faces, live on TV. It's very entertaining.

One caveat, though - an MP can't call another politician a liar. He might say 'economical with the truth', or cast aspersions on his opponent's 'research', but can't *actually* claim deceit.

Not that even these 'workarounds' get used much in practice; the public just doesn't really care. I suppose we just sort of assume politicians are a bunch of MAKOs right from the off, so we can only then be pleasantly surprised.

[Mako]

Hmmm why are using my name Bosola? In such a weird fashion? It's almost as if the "badword" filter is using my name instead....

[Kudistos Megistos]

I can't help suspect KM would be far less optimistic about the efficiency of the private sector if he'd worked with some of the 'big guns' as clients. They really aren't the rigorously organized, efficient and entrepreneurial machines you think. And I'm talking about IT - if these guys can't innovate, we're all ****ed!

But that is a matter for another time, and maybe more concerns large vs small than public vs private.

Are you talking about dealing with the IT demands of non-IT oriented companies or with actual IT companies? In either case, it's all relative; the public sector's ability to deal with IT is hideous, so I've heard and so I've witnessed. Hell, I hear that the government itself still uses IE6 when it's not losing the personal data of millions of people by leaving USB sticks on the bus.

In Britain, leading politicians, including the Prime Minister, openly insult each other, to each others' faces, live on TV. It's very entertaining.

One caveat, though - an MP can't call another politician a liar. He might say 'economical with the truth', or cast aspersions on his opponent's 'research', but can't *actually* claim deceit.

He might be able to get away with it if he claims to have been "tired and emotional" at the time.

EDIT:

When did Mako's name become a swear word? That's an insult to the poor girl.

[Bosola]

Are you talking about dealing with the IT demands of non-IT oriented companies or with actual IT companies? In either case, it's all relative; the public sector's ability to deal with IT is hideous, so I've heard and so I've witnessed. Hell, I hear that the government itself still uses IE6 when it's not losing the personal data of millions of people by leaving USB sticks on the bus.

Trust me, that's far worse than some of the big private sector names do. I mean both non-IT and IT/comms companies.

I'm a bit too paranoid about my employer seeing this to say much specific [tinfoils], but I can say that a major - I mean massive organization - much famed for its 'entrepreneurial drive' - in reality just leaps from catastrophe to catastrophe. And their IT department is a total joke.

PM me if you care for details. Honestly, our public sector clients might be iffy, but *these* guys were something else. Another couple of biggies were pretty poor, too.

He might be able to get away with it if he claims to have been "tired and emotional" at the time.

Or if 'God told him to do it'. Thanks Tone!

When did Mako's name become a swear word? That's an insult to the poor girl.

Oh, MAKO off.

Anyway, it's

* four letters
* FF7-related
* less explicit than calling Tony Blair a 'King Kanute'.

[Covarr]

When did Mako's name become a swear word? That's an insult to the poor girl.

Oh, MAKO off.

Anyway, it's

* four letters
* FF7-related
* less explicit than calling Tony Blair a 'King Kanute'.

Oh no you don't. I'm prepared to defend to the death the honor of a stranger on the internet that I've never actually met 

[Mako]

Bosola why are you manually typing my name in as a replacement for a vulgar word?.

Like Kudistos said, I take this as an insult! Why are you doing this? I have done nothing to insult you have I?

I would prefer if you stoped, I know you are not breaking any rules...it's just a matter of being repectful.

[Bosola]

Oh, go HOJO yourselves!

[Mako]

I fail to see the joke.

I know you "don't care" what I think. But I thought you were one of the nice ones?...You even pointed me in the right direction once. How is it nice to basically tell me to go [insert any word here] myself?

If you are trying to imply that you "randomly" pulled Mako out of your hat of random words, I would highly doubt that...

aether way its very distasteful...If there was something I have done to upset you, let me know I will try and fix it :/.

[Bosola]

If you are trying to imply that you "randomly" pulled Mako out of your hat of random words, I would highly doubt that...

I did. Don't believe me? There's not an awful lot I can really do to prove things either way. Misread a medium without intonation or nonverbal cues? That's the nature of text. Upset? That's not fortunate, but the internet demands a thicker skin.

If you're going to get upset that someone uses the source of your name, taken from FF7, as generic placeholder for swearing in an FF7-focussed context, what's going to happen when you meet someone who really is attacking you? If you can tie yourself in knots even over something well-meaning, then I really don't think forums are going to give you much pleasure.

I'm serious. I'm certainly not suggesting that you leave, but I don't see how someone can react this way and enjoy internet discussions. I know - as well as anyone - how easy it is to attribute malice or anger to a text that just wasn't worded properly. Worse, I've started flamewars all on the cue of some misgauged joke. But I've seen enough to know I can't jump to conclusions about posts and the intentions behind them.

What do you think my tone is? What do you think I feel? Anger? Superiority? Nervous insecurity? Sympathy? Whimsical pleasure? Boredom? Do you know? How could you? How could any of us know either how to respond, or what we're responding to? And that's entirely why you have to disinvest from forums in general. You don't have to become cold, but you do have to take a different attitude. You have to hang fire before responding, think of other meanings that are reasonable. If you don't, you'll find yourself hurt.

I know you "don't care" what I think.

No, no, no, no! You've built this entire persona out of a few misread lines. You can probably hear me speak, watch me snicker, congratulating myself on a particularly well-worded snipe. And likewise, I can see you huff indignantly, close Firefox and fire up Dragon Age to calm your nerves. Except I can't, because that would be a massive assumption - an unjustified, sweeping conclusion founded on... what is that, eight words? Eight? And likewise, you've no way of knowing what I think, feel, how I react or... well, *much* beyond what I've said in a few scattered paragraphs.

You've *got* to stop doing this! Or do you? There's the rub. I've probably misread you. There as many possible readings of a post as pebbles on the beach. And that's exactly the problem here.

[Covarr]

Let's just all apologize and move along 

[Mako]

No offence, but your response was a long winded "get a thicker skin" and "it was random" trust me I am not so easily offended by such words...

I was just wondering what provoked to what seemed like a random attack. Tell me this, why would I need to get a thicker skin if your comment wasn't meant for me?.

Example: Why don't you go Bosola yourself! what..its random I swear! Your trying to tell me out of all the words in the Final Fantasy 7 universe only one came to mind? I'd sat that Bosola!

While I do have a tenancy to over react, I just was taken off guard by your tasteless comment and I simply do not buy the very transparent excuse that followed, no matter how lengthy the post may seem.

So wile the rest of your post seemed to hint at me not "knowing you" or simply didn't understand what you meant by one simple post, this is false when someone says:

I suppose we just sort of assume politicians are a bunch of MAKOs right from the off

I know when an insult is made, I don't need it to be explained, or your life story to understand. Also give such a poor follow up one can only be taken back, but I guess your right to sum up your comment "How do you know" and your right i don't.

I have stood with the best of them taking insult/s from the likes of hermoor/jari/others and lived through with "a thick skin" but do note I can be very "thick skinned" at times. You just took me off guard, and it was very unexpected as you were in the nice pile of members in my book.

[Armorvil]

Bosola's long post should have read : "I never even once thought about you when I typed the mako words, you gotta believe me. I'm sorry about that, and I won't do it again."

There, drama over. Bosola just likes to be patronizing /give lessons / have that "holier than thou" attitude. This is how he is. Just don't mind him.

What do you think my tone is? What do you think I feel? Anger? Superiority? Nervous insecurity? Sympathy? Whimsical pleasure? Boredom? Do you know? How could you? How could any of us know either how to respond, or what we're responding to?

While I agree with you that there was no need to get one's panties in a mess over your mako words (it was obvious you never had Mako -the person- in mind), I disagree with you here. Don't underestimate the power of words. You can tell many things from a person just by reading his/her posts. Sometimes, it's even easier to figure a person out by reading his posts, than by hearing him talk.

[Bosola]

Bosola just likes to be patronizing /give lessons / have that "holier than thou" attitude. This is how he is. Just don't mind him.

Not really. I just flamed you once when I was pissed off at work. It was unfair and unpleasant, but I don't think it reflects on how I really act and think normally. I hope not, anyway.

I was just wondering what provoked to what seemed like a random attack. Tell me this, why would I need to get a thicker skin if your comment wasn't meant for me?.

 Maybe I should condense what I was saying:
 * 'Mako' was chosen randomly (and quite some time ago, too, if you look at my post history)
 * You misread the posts
 * Because it's easy to misread posts, you will find it easier to hang fire before interpreting.

That third point looks like 'get a thicker skin', but it's actually more to do with how we read and judge the tone of posts. In practice, because it's difficult, we have to 'disengage' from forums, but that's not quite the same thing as 'pull yourself together and take it on the chin'.

While I do have a tenancy to over react, I just was taken off guard by your tasteless comment and I simply do not buy the very transparent excuse that followed, no matter how lengthy the post may seem.

But *why* would I choose your name? Doesn't it make sense to use a four-letter FF7 word to replace other four letter words in a forum about, well a lot of Squaresoft RPGs, but mostly FF7?

And what's my motive? You've never done anything to me and you've posted supportive things on my Youtube channel. Go by that evidence.

I suppose we just sort of assume politicians are a bunch of MAKOs right from the off

Re-reading this, I wonder if you think I'm resurrecting those old rumours that you're a 'fake' member, that Mako and politicians are both liars? Is that why you think I chose the word? That's the most obvious connection I can make. It's not something that occurred to me at the time.

There's not really much more I can say on all this.

[sl1982]

Perhaps we can all just drop this. Mako, you have perceived a slight against you and bosola says this was not the intent of his post. I doubt any apologies are going to be given out but I would not like this to turn into a flamewar in which I would have to do anything against respected members.