Author Topic: 1997 X 2013 Cloud  (Read 5015 times)

Giullio

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1997 X 2013 Cloud
« on: 2013-08-23 15:01:58 »

nfitc1

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #1 on: 2013-08-23 16:11:28 »
This is the 2008 Cloud (from Dissidia) and this image is pretty old.

apz freak

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #2 on: 2013-08-27 05:04:38 »
OH DON'T GET ME STARTED... I think you've prompted me to finally draw that picture I had planned with all the iterations of Cloud...

Original, Kingdom Hearts, Advent Children, Crisis Core secret ending(Or New Canon), Dissidia, Dissidia 012(Bad guy version?... Can't remember the terminology)

Other than slight variations and whatnot I think those are all the major ones.

dkma841

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #3 on: 2013-08-27 14:29:42 »
There was a long discussion about this before to this i think here:
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13127.0
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13333.0
« Last Edit: 2013-08-27 18:50:14 by e1sunz »

LeonhartGR

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #4 on: 2013-08-27 15:49:22 »
Please make them Sir! :)

Giullio

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #5 on: 2013-08-28 00:17:49 »
I would like to see those comparatives apz :), As said in the older topics, Cloud was seen like a confident, proud and brave soldier. Maybe to adapt to the "Twilight" Era with  intentions of making money, as always, he was made into that. It's really sad, not only with Cloud, the 90s kids favorite characters were always confident muscular and brave (Goku like), recently they "remade" the Lobo from DC comics
from this:
 

into this:

Well I read that the "New Lobo" is fake, maybe the fans didn't accept so well

I miss the old days when the things were all blood and fun, I don't think we will see a killing scene like when Aeris dies again (It didn't have blood, but it's a freaking big sword thrusted into her back. I might be mistaken, didn't play FFXIII)
« Last Edit: 2013-08-28 00:27:39 by Giullio »

nfitc1

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #6 on: 2013-08-28 03:12:45 »
Ugh! Good to know Lobo wasn't made into that. Looks more boy brandish than Superman hunter.

Deaths happen all the time in video games now. Even to characters we are supposed to care about. Aerith was just the first one we didn't see coming and whose death was more from the failure of the protagonist than dying "for the cause".

Dark Phoenix

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #7 on: 2013-09-13 22:47:24 »
There was a long discussion about this before to this i think here:
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13127.0
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13333.0

I find it greatly humorous that people are so strongly against a retranslation of FF7, considering no one said anything when they retranslated 4, 5 or 6.  And all three benefitted (some more than others) from being retranslated, bringing the games closer to the original author's creation.  Why is FF7 so great that the 1997 release is untouchable?

DLPB_

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #8 on: 2013-09-14 00:08:33 »
I find it greatly humorous that people are so strongly against a retranslation of FF7, considering no one said anything when they retranslated 4, 5 or 6.  And all three benefitted (some more than others) from being retranslated, bringing the games closer to the original author's creation.  Why is FF7 so great that the 1997 release is untouchable?

I can answer this somewhat. I have been on many forums talking about translation project, some more hostile than others (and this one by far the most sensible of all of them, probably because the community here is geared TO changing the game, and because generally, the people here are far more likely to be intelligent than the usual droning "Does Tifa really love Cloud" mentality.)

The thing that struck me instantly about criticism to the very idea of retranslating VII (and I am speaking here not about criticism to my project), is that it is so prevalent and largely hostile.  Some people are horrified at the very thought of changing VII for a number of reasons.  The most common ones being:

1.  I grew up with it, and whatever changes are made that's what I came to love as a kid.  Not any retranslated version
2.  You will lose all the quirks that made VII unique "This guy are sick"  [already gone in PC btw]
3. The mistakes are now canon, so changing it is too late.

All 3 of these are an appeal to nostalgia.  They are all based on one person's love of what was, and refusal to accept what is (and "what is" is the original writers vision and work).  So there is reason number 1 for the illogical hatred of retranslating.

In my own project, I've had people beg that I leave certain mistakes in, go nuts at me for changing canon, monster names, and character names (although I am not changing them... since that is what they should have been in first place), and generally have a position of "I don't care how good yours is, it isn't the official".

But as you noted before, VII seems to come off by far the most hostile.. more than any other FF (Well, with the exception of VI, that probably suffered the same response by a lot of fans(?) ). Why is that?    As I see it, the reason VII has a more vocal opposition to change is due to 3 main reasons:

1.  there are a lot more fans of VII, it was a revolutionary game.  The Playstation opened up the series to a LOT more people than just Nintendo players.

2. It is a game that has become legendary and the most famous in the series (and imho the greatest, story wise).

3.  People just don't realise how BAD the original actually is.

It's simply that VII is a victim of its own success.  No one cares about Final Fantasy IV enough to go bitching about preserving the SNES translation.  The reason we have all those shitty spin offs is because fanbase lap it up simply because it has the title "Final Fantasy VII".

Unfortunately, most fanboys and other die hards frequent forums more than any other.  So although I am sure the majority of people world-wide would enjoy and support a retranslation, the ones online that do are a minority.  This goes for any game or sport.  If you frequent any sports forum, you quickly see the same problem.  Nostalgia and arguments against change (changing rules, changing equipment, adding technology to help the ref).

In the end, I believe people succumb to the same emotional responses that religionists do.  It's the same thing imho.  The same emotional response, the same hatred of change, the same arguments and appeal to tradition.  And the same hissy fits when you point out their religion is flawed. 

In fact, forget about retranslation.  Try arguing with a die hard about problems with VII (yup, it ain't perfect), and see the reaction then.  I consider myself a die hard in terms of dedication, but I have never felt the need to declare VII perfect, or get all emotional about "canon" and other nonsense.  From my point of view (and as someone recently showed me, J R R Tolkien's point of view) the writer is god.  He is in charge, and it is his work.  A translator must make the translation fit the facts, not the other way around.

What Baskett did with Barrett, for example, is completely unprofessional.  Rather than model the character on the material he was given, he decided to model it on Mr. T.   Someone else out there didn't like the idea of using a Christian religion name (Longinus became Spirit Lance).  There are a lot of things in VII that were altered contrary to the writers wishes.
« Last Edit: 2013-09-14 13:51:21 by DLPB »

apz freak

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #9 on: 2013-09-16 06:38:19 »
DLPB... Awesome. I am immeasurably interested IN your re-translation project, AS WELL AS seeing the original intent of the creators... Infact I've always had an interest in such things, context, or perspective, point of view, however you wanna phrase it. And yet just plain haven't had the time to actually use or read it. But I must say I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the matter and even about the process of localization in general. Delightful to point out the ineptitude and honest desperation that went into the localized American product we got.

It's funny how things get stuck in the public mind, such as the bolts on Frankenstein's monster, oh yeah... and calling the monster Frankenstein! The original book had no such things... But no amount of my proving the origin will change the public memory. And this goes across the entire plane of incorrectly taught history lessons in our American schools... I find original contexts and purer intentions enlightening. And I see you in those exact same shoes on the FFVII translation matter. One can embrace it or subvert it, it's all a matter of personal temperament.

And here's where I don't take a stand, but sympathize, with some of the mistake-come-canon like Phoenix Down. Technically incorrect, some-what-justified, and I get that, but I like it so... It can be argued, as well it should be, but I'll just sit back and be content with the way things are and enjoy it. I mean... Why not!? It's just a game isn't it  ;) (Says the guy who drew up comparisons to the differences between the in-game model and character art details of Ocarina of Time when he was a lad)

It's bewildering how far FFVII has come in garnering a following, complete with vabid fandom and all it's insistent fury...

I don't think I have a point... Except to say Thank You. Whatever inspired you to do this rings true to the way I think, and I appreciate the monumental effort and networking it must have took to take on such a task. Your passion isn't wasted on me, even if I haven't had the chance to truly experience it, I still intend to... some day.

Word yo

DLPB_

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Re: 1997 X 2013 Cloud
« Reply #10 on: 2013-09-16 11:26:09 »
Well, I agree that Phoenix down and megalixir are pretty decent localisations for the series, which is why I offer the option to keep those in the retranslation :)  It's still good to see how it would have looked though!  8-)

And thanks.