Author Topic: *ANOTHER* FFX pc post...  (Read 44199 times)

cHiBiMaRuKo

  • *
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #50 on: 2001-06-09 02:31:00 »

 
Quote
Sephiroth had said something about Jenova able to read minds and that the Cloud's personally had come from Tifa's mind. (think he said something about Cloud being a combo of Jenova cells, Mako Energy, and Tifa's memories. what Sephiroth didn't know was that Cloud was really in Nib and the memories from Tifa were kinda correct...but not totally.) When Tifa finds Cloud there is a flash, can't remember if it's red or white....I think it was red. Cloud didn't know who Tifa was, everytime he would answer her, there was a flash of light. That light was Jenova telling the blank mind of Cloud what to say.......and the reason, was because Jenova was reading Tifa's memories.


Jenova reading Tifa memories? I think it's wrong. Remember that when Cloud first meet Tifa, Tifa ask Cloud "how long that we don't meet" or something to that effect. Then a flash, after that Cloud answer "5 years". But Tifa know that it's wrong, because 7 years is the correct answer. If Jenova doing its job right about that memory reading thing, that screw-up won't happen.

Quote
Hmmm, guess I answered myself (Actually I just remembered one of my conclusions)....guess Cloud acts like Zack, because Tifa wants to remember that it was Cloud that went to Nibelhem. It was just a coincidence that Cloud was there, but in a mask and Shinra uniform. (I haven't thought about this for a long time....I've forgot about some of my old theories  ) And since they are shapeshifters I guess Zacks's hairstyle kinda stuck....but with Cloud's hair color. (I have proof of this, remember #1 Sephiroth turns into Tifa).

Cloud acts like Zack because not that Tifa want to remember that Cloud, and not Zack who has accompanied Sephiroth to Nibel, but just to imitate Zack because he himself failed to attain his ambition to become a Soldier himself. From his friendship with Zack, Cloud is changing himself to become just like Zack, in appearance, sword playing tech and etc. So much the same even Aeris, notices it.


 

Quote
As far as who's in control....Sephiroth was somewhat normal, until he found Jenova....(


Jenova is always with him, except in the Nibel flashback. He seems normal to me.


 

Quote
As for the Dream....your forgetting that Tifa was in Cloud's mind, when she was knocked out on the Highwind (I need to replay the game for solid proof...cause I can't remember what happens in that sequence....I think Cloud walks away, and Tifa is talking to ghosts....I can't remember...but I think something important was said there....Oh, I think that's when we see Tifa's first meeting with Cloud. And the reasons why she was staying with him... There minds had to be connected, because of those red flashes of light.)

I'll rather say that it's vice versa; Cloud mind is entering Tifa mind, because the lifestream has began doing to Cloud what it have done to Sephiroth. In the lifestream ( where Tifa is talking to some Clouds ), that's where you can say their mind connected, primarily because of the lifestream itself.

Quote
In the dream with Aeris, they were talking directly to each other.... Your reaction just proves my point. The story is written just to leave questions....It's considered good, because of what is left behind, not because of what's in the storyline.

If they ( Cloud and Aeris ) were talking directly to each other, it doesn't mean that Sephiroth don't play anything on that dream. So do you want to say that Cloud and Sephiroth mind aren't connected? Remember, Cloud have Jenova cells too.

Quote
As far as the continent changing...you have to remember that the Lifestream was being made by killing the life around effected areas. The Crater was one of these areas, and Midgar was another, but Midgar was messed up because of man using up the energy...the Crater was void of life because the Planet was trying to heal itself. After the game, it shows the area around Midgar to be abundunt of life. Meaning that the Planet is completely healed.. As for the canyon thing. Maybe it isn't the Cosmo Canyon, but that valley that Cloud walks through to get to that Chocobo ranch. Lots can happen in 500 years...or maybe it was that mountain range that's around Midgar. Or maybe it's just another movie glitch.

If your argument is true, then it back up my theory of human race destruction then  :). Remember that Red 13 uncle shows that the lifestream is the essence of all life, let it be humans or animals or plants. Then one of the ending movies shows that a lot of lifestreams coming out from ALL DIRECTIONS to try and prevent Meteor - with Cloud and party watching from Highwind. Whatever is succeeded or not, we don't know. But I'll say it failed, primarily because Red 13 uncle have pointed up to Cloud party that the amount of lifestreams on the planet has been greatly reduced because of artificial Materia procurement. So after Meteor impact, the Planet has to use the lifestreams to repair the damage done. The return of human lifestreams ( they die because the Meteor, and probably also of it after effect ), help the Planet to heal itself, and thus the result 500 years later. About continent changing, it's either a movie glitch or it really happened. I can't see Red 13 moving house to Kalm or the ridge near the place of Zack death because his parents graves ( and possibly his uncle too ) are on the canyon.

Quote
The #1 tattoo. I need to know if Sephiroth was branded by the #1 at birth, to satisfy another conclusion I came up with....I'd go into it, but I don't have time right now. They put a lot of emphasis into that there are only 12 clones, minus Red, Cloud and Zack.....but these 12 clones never hold any real importance in the game. And why was there a Black clone flying away from key spots...Anchient's temple is coming to mind, right now. My conclusion all hangs on that #1 tatto on Sephiroth. If he had it at birth, my conclusion is broken......

Actually I don't pay attention on whatever Sephiroth have a tattoo or not, because does it important? But I think he have it. A black clone from key spots? Maybe it Sephiroth himself, or it have controlled by Sephiroth to get there first from the information he gleaned from Could party.

Quote
FF8's story was weak, that's why people don't like it. That and the fact that lot's of people don't understand the mentality of a Loner.....I understand FF8, too well and it's a touching story, if you know what a "Loner" goes through. (All Loners think more than they speak...and we/they think way to much about stupid things.)

FF8 story is average, but the music is excellent. And also the characters and the CGI.


Threesixty

  • *
  • Posts: 1171
    • View Profile
    • http://www.geocities.com/threesixtyci/
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #51 on: 2001-06-09 05:06:00 »
Hey!!!! I like a lot of your arguments....

I'll buy your dream connection thing...makes perfect sense...but Square didn't tell us this in their story. It came out of your imagination. But I like it. But still....Aeris still had to know that she was actually talking to Cloud, that Cloud would remember when he woke up....so there is still a little hole. I would then have to believe that Aeris, was the one that made the connection to Cloud...not Sephiroth. Actually, there seems to be two worlds in FF7 land. A reality, and a dream world. All Square had to do was leave a clue that this existed, but they don't. They just do it without explanation. They do a lot of things in this story, without any explanation. I just get the sense that it's unfinished, that they forgot or they intentually left things out.

Well, OK then, moving on.

So when Tifa meets Cloud, what do you think those flashes of light were....he also gets a flash in the beginning of the game. And then later a flash back of Tifa leaning over her dead father. (There are a lot of others, but what's a little wierd is that the last Jenova (Death?), fought Cloud with the same red flash).

Ponder this for a second....what if Jenova got some of her/Cloud's responses from Zack's memories. And then combined them with Tifa's memories of Cloud. Perhapse a clone is really a clone in this story. A copy of a person, without any memories of it's own....and the Jenova cells are able to take memories of other people, and make them her own. The video tapes in Icicle Town, said that Jenova would show them dead friends and stuff like that....maybe this ability is a part of that.

OK...now.....

Sephiroth is totally insane, after the Nib reactor incident. Why would he cut off Jenova's head? I still can't figure that one out. He was very Cold person, before that incident, according to Tifa's flashback.
I don't think the real Sephiroth is a so called, "clone" (and a missing #1 tattoo would prove this). The real Sephiroth was more, of a Hybrid. Half human and half Jenova DNA. Hojo injected his own unborn son with this DNA...apparently from conception, at least it seems that way from Vincent's flashback. The thing that Cloud was following was later revealed to be a clone....or maybe even the body of Jenova? (I think, that the Sephiroth that Cloud was originaly chasing, called Sephiroth it's master, and then you end up fighting Jenova death...I have to verify this though, been a long time, so don't hold me to it, just try to remember it.) Remember the blood trail at Shinra HQ? Remember how it vanished? and the story of Sephiroth killing the President taking the blood trail's place? Square went in a defined direction and then they confused it with the clones and the reunion.....It's like, they kept changing their theories of Jenova. It basicly just falls apart and makes no sense; at least it doesn't to me. (Anyway that is what I'm really hung up on, in FF7)

Lastly....

I still disagree with the destruction on mankind. Your forgetting about holy....

I hope you have the PC version....do me a favor and go to the movie directory on disk3...disk4 for the platinum version...and watch the End2.avi.

Meteor is on top of Midgar distroying the upper plate, Holy comes out of the Crater (Sephiroth was holding Holy back) Holy later goes in between Meteor and Midgar. Meteor is able to push itself through Holy. And Midgar start getting torn apart, because of the two forces battling, above it. But holy is still having an opposite effect over Meteor (that's what Red meant...he basicaly says forget what happens to Midgar...worry about the Planet.). Midgar is still going to be distroyed, but the planet is now the thing at stake. Forget Midgar....It's the planet we have to save. Then the Lifestream pours out of the ground. the music become relaxing when this happens. All the children open there windows to watch the lifestream. Then something magical happens when the lifesteam focuses over Midgar. The scene goes to white, then you see green bubbles slowly floating around, and the next image you see is Aeris.....and she's opening her eyes...and she's smiling. (I'm getting teary)

As if to say...everything is going to be alright. And the opening of the eyes is symbolism for "Rebirth". If mankind had died...her eyes would have been open and then she would have closed them, "Death".

Ok...where did the huge supply of lifestream come from? Well...this is going to be specualtion. Something that the Square should have explained to us, but didn't. So, here it comes from a fan, instead.

Planet was storing that energy up for sometime. Forgot how old the Ancients are (10,000 years?), but that's how long Planet has been storing the Lifestream. It was absorbing all that energy from the wound of the Crater, that Jenova created all those years ago. I guessing that the planet knew what was coming, and decided to store the Energy instead of allowing it to cure it's wound. Perhapse in doing this, Planet kept Jenova from waking up. The planet even told the Ancients to leave the area, when it started doing this, but they refused. (that's kinda in the video tapes in Icicle Village. Just, too many unanswered questions. At least with FF8 and FF9 you had answers.)

Don't get me wrong, I love FF7's overall story and it's one of the few games that can make me cry (if I'm in the right mood...heh...FF9 was the other one.)....I just don't like the holes in the Main Character's stories. I just feel that they could have done a better job in that department. That is why I put FF7 a hair under FF9...or maybe equal to it. If they had put more explanations of why stuff was happening, in the game. I would have put it miles ahead of anything I've ever watched on television, read, or played.

(So for me...FF7 does not blow FF9's story away...that's why I really, wrote all this. But, it had potential to do so.)

For a series that doesn't have sequels....they sure left room for one in FF7.

----------------------
And TiadaghtonDude...I believe I posted all that on the Eidos board at one time (almost word per word) then I went into my Tifa's brain scan theory.

The connections I really, can't grasp are: Sephiroth, Soldier, the Sephiroth Clones, and the Jenova Reunion.

Hojo creates Sephiroth from birth...but then makes Soldier by giving 12 year old kids, Mako Energy radiation, and then makes clones of Sephiroth after he dies (which look like charco men), with Mako energy and Jenova cells. Then he tells Cloud he made these so called "clones" for the Reunion. To see if they would follow the body of Jenova to Shinra HQ. That way he would know if Sephiroth would also follow the Jenova's body, too. (yeah that makes a lot of sense, wouldn't Sephiroth go to the Nibilium reactor, if that was true?)..but the Body itself left Shinra HQ, to go to Sephiroth. And Sephiroth used the clones for his own use (whatever that means). I guess it means that Sephiroth was always in that crystal, and the things that Cloud was chasing were the clones....but why the refrence to #1 tattoo Sephiroth?. It just starts to fall apart....We end up making excuses for Square's writers from here on out, when they should have told us themselves.

It's too complex!!!!!!!!!! It's like 20 different people were writing this thing, each refusing to give up their own idea of Sephiroth and Jenova.

[This message has been edited by Threesixty (edited June 09, 2001).]


cHiBiMaRuKo

  • *
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #52 on: 2001-06-09 12:27:00 »

 
Quote
But I like it. But still....Aeris still had to know that she was actually talking to Cloud, that Cloud would remember when he woke up....so there is still a little hole. I would then have to believe that Aeris, was the one that made the connection to Cloud...not Sephiroth.

Did Aeris actually talking to Cloud? I don't know because the next time they meet, Sephiroth send her to death. But I'll still say that Sephiroth is the one that make the contact, as both of them have the cells and Sephiroth want Cloud to be at the Crater for reunion.

Quote
So when Tifa meets Cloud, what do you think those flashes of light were....he also gets a flash in the beginning of the game. And then later a flash back of Tifa leaning over her dead father. (There are a lot of others, but what's a little wierd is that the last Jenova (Death?), fought Cloud with the same red flash).

Ponder this for a second....what if Jenova got some of her/Cloud's responses from Zack's memories. And then combined them with Tifa's memories of Cloud. Perhapse a clone is really a clone in this story. A copy of a person, without any memories of it's own....and the Jenova cells are able to take memories of other people, and make them her own. The video tapes in Icicle Town, said that Jenova would show them dead friends and stuff like that....maybe this ability is a part of that.

I generally think it just a special effect, to spice things up. If you theory is true, that the flash is Jenova reading minds, why it happened when Tifa ask that particular question? And wrong answer with that too. But actually I think I agree with you with the flash thingy, only that the screw-up with Cloud wrong answer to Tifa.

Sephiroth is cutting Jenova head primarily because of what he have seen at the reactor and the underground library. Thinking he is an Ancient ( the last ), he goes to get his mother, then get off to continue what the Ancients have always wanted to do.


 

Quote
I hope you have the PC version....do me a favor and go to the movie directory on disk3...disk4 for the platinum version...and watch the End2.avi.

I don't have the PC version, only PSX. And I don't feel like to play it again just to see it again. Onimusha Warlord is just f**kin' great  :)

About your theory, Aeris is smiling because after her death at Disc 1, she still don't dissolve into the lifestream. She's doing that because after Sephiroth defeat, now she can be dissolved. I always have the assumption that the whole scene IS the HOLY being casted, which I remembered now, Red 13 uncle have said that even Holy stand no chance to stop Meteor. And another thing, the planet does want the humanity to be destroyed, by the evidence of the Weapons existence ( Emerald Weapons and the gang ).

Why the Northern Crater look like that way? Deserted and all stuff? It's because not that the planet wanted to save it energy for another forseerable danger. It's much more because that the Ancients have defeated the Weapons and seal them at the Crater ( Emerald and Ruby are tough customers ). The planet created the Weapons so they can create havoc and destruction, killing a lot of people ( or living things ), so their lifestreams could be used by the planet to repair the damage inflicted by Jenova arrival on the planet. But the Ancients foiled the planet plans, thus the crater looks ugly for a long time, even with high amount of lifestreams. This is not a theory whatsoever, the game tell you that. I don't agree with the fact that the planet storing it's energy for events like Meteor. The planet already decided to repair the damage done by Jenova centuries ago, only to be foiled by the Ancients.



Sir Canealot

  • *
  • Posts: 900
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #53 on: 2001-06-09 17:45:00 »
*Gives Threesixty a f***ing huge medel*

Whoa your deep man.


eerrrr

  • *
  • Posts: 1020
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #54 on: 2001-06-09 22:04:00 »
*Gives cHiBiMaRuKo one too.*

If the planet created the Weapons to destroy people to get more power, why is it still giving birth after death? And if it did want to get rid of humans then the theory of the human race dying at the end will probably be true, because I think it was Bugenhagen who said that Holy will destroy everything the Planet doesnt want. Am I right?

[This message has been edited by eerrrr (edited June 09, 2001).]


Threesixty

  • *
  • Posts: 1171
    • View Profile
    • http://www.geocities.com/threesixtyci/
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #55 on: 2001-06-10 09:08:00 »
Your just proving my point even more....FF7 was poorly focused. All the direct text tells you one thing, and all the sub-text tells a totaly diferent thing. All this stuff we are talking about is sub-text. (reading between the lines, to find the truth is what I am calling "sub-text")

Back to the discusion:
On those Gast video tapes. Aeris' Mom said that planet created Weapon to destroy Jenova. But the planet never had to use the Weapons because the Ancients were able to seal Jenova in a sanctrum (whatever that is). Then the Ancients tried to help the Planet cure her wounds...she never really says how they did this....speculation can say self sacrafice or maybe creating life by farming and hard work (It seems the Anchient have an certain ability to create flowers from nothing: Aeris' home and the church are two examples of that)....I don't really know. She also said that the Planet asked them to leave that place, but the Ancients refused....then she start crying and the tape ends....

That's where I got the idea that Planet was just taking life and storing it for the final/future battle with Jenova. The Planet was preparing for this. And wanted the Ancients to move to another region, because it knew that the Ancients would never be able to cure it's wound.

Once the Weapons are released they just attack things that were harming the planet. Cloud's was a target because of the Jenova inside of him. Shinra Inc was targeted because of what they were doing to the lifestream. Sephiroth was protected under a Shield. They never attack mankind in general. It's almost like they were clearing the field so Holy would only need to concentrate on Meteor and Sephiroth. But then Cloud took care of Sephiroth, so the only thing left was Meteor.

Back to Aeris and Cloud's dream: Aeris has a direct conversation with Cloud. She basicly tells him that she is going to call on Holy and that she will take care of Sephiroth. I think she also says that someday we will look back at these moments, and laugh (a resurrection hint?)....so this still leads me to believe that Aeris used some sort of telepathy to contact Cloud. This just leads to my point that FF7 has very little consistantcy in it, which is what I would call a weak foundation. (Real nice story on the surface, but when you dig into it, you find that the reasons of "why?" get torn apart or left completly out....It's not all weak though, there are a few strong things that push the story over the edge, but it has a lot of weak spots that I just don't like. They could have done so much more with this story.)

The thing about Holy. They were afraid that Holy would attack mankind, because of what Shinra did to the lifestream. But given the fact that Holy forced itself between Midgar and Meteor, I believe that it didn't have the intention of harming mankind, but more of an incline to protect mankind from themselves.

What happens to Aeris is never going to be told, so many clues point to a resurrection. But the idea of pure sacrafice, is too hard to let go. Sometime Happy ending don't make a good story, but everyone wants a happy ending to a fantasy. So....we are left with this.

Why does everyone believe's in a resurrection? That's because of all the clues of there being one. The biggest clue was of what Red13's Grandpa said. He said there were sometimes exception to the cycle of life, but for the most part everything returns to the lifestream (he said something like that, I'm sure you all know the part I'm refering to). I'm not upset about the way FF7 ends...I'm glad that they did that with the story. Although, they really should have added an alternative ending to the game, one with a definite ending, that leaves no questions. It's really just the thing of the clones that I can't get a handle on. The direct text explains this in one way and the sub-text goes in a completely different direction.

I guess it's Okay that the story is unconsistant. I wouldn't be here and probably no one else would be either if it was. However, since the FF7 story has a somewhat weak foundation to support it, I can't help to feel that it could have been so much better than it is now.

So to me, it doesn't blow FF9's story away. Although, I feel that it could have. If they had wrote a little more about the reasoning of why things happen in the story and kept it consistant throughout the story, I would have been more than deeply, satisfied...I would be ecstatic.

Hey! the movie is only days away....I hope it lives up to Final Fantasy's status that we all expect. They sure payed dearly for it...137 million dollars. I find it strange that I haven't seen any promos for the movie on regular television, yet. I hope they don't get burned...because the ones that are going to pay are "us" Fans.

Oh one last thing...anyone who bought "Black and White", let it be known that they just released a beta patch for it...hopefully you can now finish the campain.

[This message has been edited by Threesixty (edited June 10, 2001).]


cHiBiMaRuKo

  • *
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #56 on: 2001-06-10 13:24:00 »

 
Quote
On those Gast video tapes. Aeris' Mom said that planet created Weapon to destroy Jenova. But the planet never had to use the Weapons because the Ancients were able to seal Jenova in a sanctrum (whatever that is). Then the Ancients tried to help the Planet cure her wounds...she never really says how they did this....speculation can say self sacrafice or maybe creating life by farming and hard work (It seems the Anchient have an certain ability to create flowers from nothing: Aeris' home and the church are two examples of that)....I don't really know. She also said that the Planet asked them to leave that place, but the Ancients refused....then she start crying and the tape ends....

Yes, the Weapon mission is also to defeat Jenova. But contrary to what you have said, the Weapons were actually unleashed to the world to deal with Jenova and to get lifestreams to cure the impact of Jenova arrival. I never think that the planet wanted to store energy for another encounter with Jenova, the planet want to cure itself immediately, but the Ancients gets in the way. The Ancients do deal with the Jenova, but obviously the Weapons want to kill all living things ( Ancients included ) so Ancients don't have any choice but to seal the Weapons too.

Quote
Once the Weapons are released they just attack things that were harming the planet. Cloud's was a target because of the Jenova inside of him. Shinra Inc was targeted because of what they were doing to the lifestream. Sephiroth was protected under a Shield. They never attack mankind in general. It's almost like they were clearing the field so Holy would only need to concentrate on Meteor and Sephiroth. But then Cloud took care of Sephiroth, so the only thing left was Meteor.

I think this is wrong too. Cloud do have Jenova cells, but they are removed after the Reunion. So the Ultima Weapon attack to Mideel town is purely intentional, to create havoc and destruction, to finish the things that they should have done a long ago. Why then the Weapon is attacking Junon? Hojo, who have Jenova cells too, wasn't there. Maybe you want to say that Junon have a Mako reactor, but what are the reason of Weapon attack on Mideel? There's no Hojo and no Mako reactor there. Cloud's Jenova cells are removed from him after the Reunion, so the only best reason for it is that all the Weapons want is destruction.


 

Quote
Back to Aeris and Cloud's dream: Aeris has a direct conversation with Cloud. She basicly tells him that she is going to call on Holy and that she will take care of Sephiroth. I think she also says that someday we will look back at these moments, and laugh (a resurrection hint?)....so this still leads me to believe that Aeris used some sort of telepathy to contact Cloud. This just leads to my point that FF7 has very little consistantcy in it, which is what I would call a weak foundation. (Real nice story on the surface, but when you dig into it, you find that the reasons of "why?" get torn apart or left completly out....It's not all weak though, there are a few strong things that push the story over the edge, but it has a lot of weak spots that I just don't like. They could have done so much more with this story.)


I do really want to believe this one, but the existence of Sephiroth in it really baffles me. So if really Aeris want to communicate with Cloud via telepathy, then after Aeris dialogue, then should I say that Sephiroth use Aeris telepathy wavelength to tell Cloud that he want to kill Aeris? It all happened in one dream. For me, it's all a Sephiroth set-up, to give Cloud clues where they could find Aeris. Sephiroth, being the stronger being, had figured out that he can kill Aeris EVEN if Cloud is there. He even knows that he could use Cloud to kill Aeris too, so whatever Cloud is there or not, it doesn't matter to Sephiroth. If Aeris do want the others to find her at the Forgotten city, she logically will tell the others ( Tifa, Barret etc. ) that she want to go there. But she don't do it. So why on earth Aeris want to give Cloud her location when she didn't tell the other members of the party? Your shapeshifters theory ( I agree with that )come to mind; if Sephiroth could become like Tifa, why not Aeris? Another reason is that Forgotten city is located near the Northern crater. Sephiroth wants Cloud to participate in the Reunion, so telling Cloud to go on a would-be-futile mission to save Aeris from Sephiroth will serve his purpose futhrer. Sephiroth is one good villain, really good at manipulating Cloud's emotions, that's why he's one of the best vilains ever in FF series.


 

Quote
The thing about Holy. They were afraid that Holy would attack mankind, because of what Shinra did to the lifestream. But given the fact that Holy forced itself between Midgar and Meteor, I believe that it didn't have the intention of harming mankind, but more of an incline to protect mankind from themselves.

What happens to Aeris is never going to be told, so many clues point to a resurrection. But the idea of pure sacrafice, is too hard to let go. Sometime Happy ending don't make a good story, but everyone wants a happy ending to a fantasy. So....we are left with this.

For me, Holy wedged itself between Midgar and Meteor because the planet knows that itself is doomed if it don't do it ( example is Northern Crater ). Red 13 uncle had already indicated that Holy will fail to stop Meteor ( one of the reasons why I think the ending will be not so sweet ) because of Shinra action of mining Materia. Holy certainly don't wipe out humanity, that's for certain, but Meteor does. Maybe all the Holy have done is to reduce Meteor damage. But Meteor give the planet what tha planet wanted, lotsa lifestreams, thus with it the planet cure itself, and the result we can see 500 years later. The planet in its gradual process of healing is itself a good indication, the plants have already grown.


 

Quote
If the planet created the Weapons to destroy people to get more power, why is it still giving birth after death? And if it did want to get rid of humans then the theory of the human race dying at the end will probably be true, because I think it was Bugenhagen who said that Holy will destroy everything the Planet doesnt want. Am I right?

The Weapons purpose is to get enough lifestreams, that's all. After the planet is done with it curing process, then there's will be life all over again. It's not an overnight process, and it will take place slowly and gradually.


 

Quote
I guess it's Okay that the story is unconsistant. I wouldn't be here and probably no one else would be either if it was. However, since the FF7 story has a somewhat weak foundation to support it, I can't help to feel that it could have been so much better than it is now.

So to me, it doesn't blow FF9's story away. Although, I feel that it could have. If they had wrote a little more about the reasoning of why things happen in the story and kept it consistant throughout the story, I would have been more than deeply, satisfied...I would be ecstatic.

For me FF7 is still one of the best, FF9 couldn't even hold a candle to FF7. I'm not saying that FF7 is perfect either, but it know how to manipulate the players emotions, and you feel like you really in it. That don't happen it FF9. I've played FF9 only once, and I think I won't touch it again except a PC version is out ( which I think will not happen ). So while I'm waiting for FFX, I'll rather play Onimusha Warlord ( kick-ass ) and F1 2001 ( kick-ass ) and Legend Of Mana ( kick-ass for a old game ) and Serious Sam ( MEGA KICK-ASS: GAME OF THE YEAR ).


Threesixty

  • *
  • Posts: 1171
    • View Profile
    • http://www.geocities.com/threesixtyci/
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #57 on: 2001-06-12 05:26:00 »
Oops...I just realised that the movie is due in July, not in June (so I was two letters off).....my bad. It's no wonder I've haven't seen any TV preview, yet.

I don't recall in the game where it said that Weapon's purpose was to kill all forms of life just to create more lifestream for the planet. I remember it being decided on forums that that's what Weapon's purpose was. But, I don't remember the game ever saying that.

However, I do specificaly, remember what Ifana said about Weapon and of Jenova and I remember it being stated, somewhere in FF7 that Planet would not begin healing until Jenova is completely distroyed.

(I think those two statements are from the Gast's videos, but I'm not certain. The second statement may be somewhere else. Do you remember where in the game your version of Weapons' purpose is discussed? That thing about Weapon being used for creating more lifestream. I'm not going to play FF7 anytime soon. I'm emulating, 'Crono Cross' right now and it's turning out into a very long game...but when I do replay FF7, I'll look for your text about Weapon and the Lifestream.)


Those two little things are where I came up with my little version of "why?". It's just a story, accept it as such. You'll never be able to prove it wrong or right. I'll always have the argument that none of the characters knew what was really going on....that probably why the story really, has so many holes. Or, it's the best excuse for FF7 having more questions than answers. (Kinda like real life). Final Fantasy 7, should have been named Final Mystery.

Anyway, I'm making everything up. It's all specualtion for an answer that was never concluded in the story. I just like to study possible event that could have made the game more intresting, more realistic, and are also, somewhat, supported by FF7's storytelling. Try doing that with FF8....it ain't easy. And from what I can see with FF9, it's not needed. Although, I could make up a short theory that may support the idea that FF7's world is really Terra and add a little story on how.....well...I really don't want to discuss theories about FF9, it's just too new for me to spoil it for anyone. The only thing I'll say about FF9 is that it's well worth the trouble of emulating it, but if you looking for a game to discuss for years to come...FF9 won't be it. RPG Games with complete ending will never recieve that honor.

About your depressing ending....being that you don't have the PC version and can't see the final movie and really study it's meaning. Well, lets just say that the ending doesn't have the feel of depression, to me. You just need to view it again, is all. What I get the feeling of, during the last parts, are that of Hope...not that of Annihilation.

On a side note, was Red13 really that different from mankind? (Remember) He hated his father, until he learned the truth of his father. He sure, sounds human to me.


[This message has been edited by Threesixty (edited June 12, 2001).]


Joey

  • *
  • Posts: 1095
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #58 on: 2001-06-12 11:54:00 »
Alt. I didn't play FF7, but I sort of know the plot(after listening to you guys). I must agree that it has a rich plot BUT poor graphics. The reason for the sucess of FF7 is because it was the first FF PSX game. Later, people who played FF8 first dissed FF7 for poor graphics. FF8 PC  had a bad reply because it was dissed by the newspapers. (The SaINT will surely know this). I think that FF9 is FF7 based.

Joey

  • *
  • Posts: 1095
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #59 on: 2001-06-12 12:00:00 »
I think that FF10 *might* contain FF8 cities.....

Sir Canealot

  • *
  • Posts: 900
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #60 on: 2001-06-12 16:31:00 »
What are you talking about Joey!?
FFX wont contain FFVIII citys. Maybe some by the same name(Maybe) but no the real citys!

And how was FFIX FFVII based? Yo umean how the characters look? We look again. They look cartoonish in FFIX but they look twice as good as FFVIIs ones.

And many magazines said the graphics to FFVIII were good. The back grounds and the 640/480 res limit they complained about but the FMV and Battles they sad looked good. Get your facts right....


cHiBiMaRuKo

  • *
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #61 on: 2001-06-12 23:32:00 »
I'm sure the game have said that the Weapons are created for dealing with Jenova and getting lotsa lifestreams. And I don't remember that Planet won't heal before Jenova die completely. But it's been 2 years and maybe I forgot that one. My depressing ending not only come from viewing the ending movie, but also the  other hints here and there. Anyway yes, most of this argument is purely hypothetical only.
Red 13 is not human. It have 4 legs, a tail, sharp claws and fangs, red furs and don't age much too. It resemble much more like a tiger than a human to me. How about you?

MMiller8

  • *
  • Posts: 300
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #62 on: 2001-06-13 02:31:00 »
Joey, you haven't played FFVII, and you know the graphics are poor?  Wait, thats not quite as much of a sin as NOT PLAYING FINAL FANTASY VII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The knocking you hear is a rabid Scott at your door.  You deserve punishment for this sin; a copy of FFVII is around his neck. :wink:

Whoa! That winking face looks EEEEEEEEEVIL!


Caddberry

  • *
  • Posts: 1988
    • View Profile
    • http://animenfo.com/
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #63 on: 2001-06-13 05:07:00 »
MMiller right as i read the scottish thing i was listening to bagpipes  :) .. he he he...

oh and Shut up Joey...


MMiller8

  • *
  • Posts: 300
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #64 on: 2001-06-13 07:01:00 »
Scott is his name; sorry for the confusion. For referance, read my post 'stretching the meaning of the word General'.  Scott is Italian.

[This message has been edited by MMiller8 (edited June 13, 2001).]


Threesixty

  • *
  • Posts: 1171
    • View Profile
    • http://www.geocities.com/threesixtyci/
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #65 on: 2001-06-15 16:57:00 »
I think FF7 graphics are real good. I was surprised at the battle graphics when I first tried out the demo....

I remember all the hype about FF7. I also remember my view of console type games at the time. I always considered myself a computer player....Always thought that consoles were for kids...all action, no strategy. I always thought that Consoles were the home for games like Basketball, Football, Punch-out, Mortal Combat, etc... So I would see "FF7 PC" on the shelf and "Mortal Combat PC", sitting next to it, both Console ports; and just pass them on by. You see, I thought FF7 was a fighting game, like Mortal Comabat, I had no idea. Not even a clue what it really was.

I picked up Eidos', "Thief", instead. After a couple of weeks of playing Thief, I figured I would look at the Demo Disk that came with the game. I still have the Demo CD. Comes with a few games and a few movies. Two of the games on that 'Vol 1 Eidos Demo Disk' (I wonder if it's worth anything since it Vol 1?) are Final Fantasy Battle and Field demos. After playing about 30 seconds of the Battle demo, I thought to myself, this isn't too bad for a fighting game, but seems too boring to buy it just for this.  Then I tried the Field game. It's a cutout from FF7 where you learn Barrets past. I was stunned. I bought FF7 that same day, and never regreted it (it was only 30 dollars anyway...I passed it up for a long time!). I was even more stunned when I found out that I just bought a game with four whole Cd's in it! When I hit that thing in Disk 1.....I had to pause the game...'cause I was too sad/shocked, to fight Jenova...... :). That is why FF7 is considered and remembered as the best RPG. FF7 broke the mold for Console sterotype games, for me. And I'm sure I'm not alone in this thinking. Come to think of it....I still haven't played a PC game that grabs you like FF does, when it comes to an emotional story. (even though the actual conversion of the game is fair, at best.)

I now consider Square RPG games as the best games, out there. FF7 started my intrest in Square games. Hmmm....also Japan's style of animation, come to think of it. Then again maybe the Cartoon network had a big play on the animation part....

I just completed Crono Cross (and triggered the CronoTrigger).....and it's damn good game, too. I like the story (it get deep towards the end, if you don't mess up in the end....I had to search the web for the order....), and in a wierd way, it has some replay value. The only thing I don't like is that the game feels 'empty' between the main plot. I don't know how else to explain it. Guess it has too many playable characters and it takes something away, from the story. That's why I like Final Fantasy....It doesn't feel as empty as other games. It seems to come to life. It's more like a interactive book or something.


BTW:
...after seeing CC's battle engine. I'm going to guess that FFX's battle engine is going to be very simular. It kinda more statigic (but gets repetitious and boring, during non-boss battles). I remember rumors from FF10, that the battles were going have more strategy in them. CC also has no leveling (well...it does, but they don't show you a real level# per say), I think FF10 is said to have no leveling, either. So I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that CC's Battle engine is going to be in FF10.... (I wonder if I'm even close.)


Anonymous

  • Guest
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #66 on: 2001-06-15 06:56:00 »
We're forgetting that FF7 was never finished.

MMiller8

  • *
  • Posts: 300
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #67 on: 2001-06-15 23:11:00 »
Whill someone please explain to me just WHAT THE HELL Kojiro is talking about? :-?

*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #68 on: 2001-06-16 02:16:00 »
Interesting topic. I might make a late entry into the discussion.  :) These are the type of things that Terence seems to thrive on. I'm surprised he hasn't posted in this thread. We've discussed some of these things in the Remake forum already, and he's been most helpful.

Anyway...
MMiller8: I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like KojiroTakenashi's referring to all those "FF7 was unfinished" rumors (which are untrue, btw). They usually go hand in hand with the equally untrue "Aeris Revival" rumors.


MMiller8

  • *
  • Posts: 300
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #69 on: 2001-06-16 03:26:00 »
Whew... for a second there I thought I had purchased a bootleg copy!*

*Just kidding. :P


Anonymous

  • Guest
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #70 on: 2001-06-16 05:28:00 »
No, it's not a rumour.
It really was never finished.
Aeris could not be revived, however you could go into part of the quest in the Japanese version, albeit only 1/4 into it.
Remember. FF7 was rushed because there were tons of obsessed, demanding otaku outside Square offices. If you missed those news stories in magazines and such, I pity you.
So, the game was rushed, thus alot of it *is* unfinished. Aeris really would have been revived, and if you buy the sorry excuse that it's important she died, check this. It stated that Holy would be summoned if a person made CONTACT with the planet. If Aeris was to die, she would be JOINING the planet, or RETURNING to it, not simply making CONTACT.
*makes a ton of points at once*
Another thing is that during the cut-scene where it tells you how Cloud-head ended up with the Buster Sword, if you look at Midgar, the plate has already crashed down. Now you tell me how it could have crashed down killing all below it and totally junking an entire sector BEFORE Cloud even got there!
There are more, but I don't really feel like going into them unless you really want to hear it.
Zack, btw, CAN be found alive and well. I got a reply from Square stating that Zack can't be "recruited" as in joining the party. They didn't say anything else, though. I have heard of ways to get Zack to just talk to him alittle. It doesn't do much for the story, though. Kinda like whether or not Cid in FF6 dies or not. It's just a neat little thing they threw in there ^^

ficedula

  • *
  • Posts: 2178
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ficedula.co.uk
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #71 on: 2001-06-16 05:55:00 »
Kojiro, those rumours about the game being unfinished are kind of the same as the rumours about being able to resurrect Aeris. Pretty much everybody knows: You can't. Most people here will have heard rumours like that many, many times before.

*Anybody* can post a controversial claim on a message board. Unless you're willing to back it up, your claim is just the same as every other unsubstantiated rumour.

For example; you say you can find Zack alive and well. Umm? That's very easily checked by searching all the text in the game (it can be done for both PSX and PC versions); if you want to go away and tell us which location file this happens in, we can check it and then say, "Look, that guy was right."

I don't really want to shoot down somebody who's only just arrived on the message board, but please: If you're going to post something controversial *do* give some supporting evidence for it. That way, people won't just think you're a troll.


Threesixty

  • *
  • Posts: 1171
    • View Profile
    • http://www.geocities.com/threesixtyci/
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #72 on: 2001-06-16 07:18:00 »
I never noticed a plate being distroyed....I'm guessing your talking about the flashback that is easily missed. The one where you have to go to the basement in Nib. on disk 2, when Cloud comes back to your party. The one with Zack?

Whenever I play the game again, I'll look for it. And if I think your wrong........I'll be sure to state it. But I don't plan on playing FF7 for a long while. (Anyway I already pointed out some errors in the FMVs). As for it being unfinished? Maybe....but I don't think it was the ending that is unfinished....it's more like disk 2 than Disk 3. Disk 2 has a rushed feeling, to me. Just a bunch of foozle missions. Go get this stone, go get that stone, go find this key..... Disk 1 wasn't like that. I feel the ending is exactly what they wanted. An alternate ending was probably written, but never put in the game. Those mirrors in the Ancient City has always puzzled me and so has that matera fountain that is behind Nib. I never seen that ghost thing that people say they see.....I don't see anything in that Church...on disk 2 or 3 besides those two kids....not even for a brief second before the stuff gets loaded on the screen....never seen anything that looks like Aeris.


Sir Canealot

  • *
  • Posts: 900
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #73 on: 2001-06-18 00:17:00 »
Threesisty the ghoust is there. Just go into the church on disk three after not hhaving been there since disk one. Just go in and look at the flowers. Shes there. Dont move close or else she will disapear. Now can you talk to the ghoust at all you think?
No. In the debug room there is a portal that takes you to behind Aeris ghoust and since you dont triger here to disapear you are free to try and talk to her all you want. But nothing comes of it.

The Skillster

  • *
  • Posts: 2284
  • Loving every Final Fantasy
    • View Profile
*ANOTHER* FFX pc post...
« Reply #74 on: 2001-06-18 02:00:00 »
the partwhen the ghost says somethiing was left out, im not sure if its still in the field files, ur free to have a look.
she says something about cloud to cloud  :P