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EQ2Alyza

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #250 on: 2015-07-26 22:11:37 »
The only mods I can see for FF7R will be a GeDoSaTo profile for downsampling and an ENB/SweetFX setting for better coloring and lighting.

gjoerulv

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #251 on: 2015-07-26 23:00:13 »
Kpopstars.... That says it all.
They're well known for making bogus articles and they're just living off lying clickbait articles for more ad revenue. Don't believe a word from that website.
So all that is random BS they made up without legit source of proof like all their other articles.

Oh, I had no idea. Just kinda stumbled upon it. Well anyways, it kinda does sound legit. I mean, nothing new -or things we didn't already know- is said here.

yarLson

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #252 on: 2015-07-27 18:18:14 »
Even if FF7r is modable, there are 2 major issues

1. The game will be huge in size and probably a lot of the content will be on disc (and not on Hard drive).  It may well be that modding the game is simply impractical given the files and their formats and sizes.

2. All tools would need to be remade and new formats decoding, and getting people to do that is no easy task.  It's taken years to get us where we are with current FF7 from 1997. 

In other words, putting my usual doom and gloom about, I don't foresee a modded FF7r happening.
If its on a pc then at some point or another it will get modified on some level however if they don't release sdk and a creation kit then any substantial modifications would be beyond the scope patience and or ability of many programmers. If it did happen it would takes years and some extremely skillful reverse engineering. Knowing square and Japanese culture in general they definitely will not encourage modifications of the game and doing so will be a royal pain


Covarr

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #254 on: 2015-07-30 21:09:24 »
For crying out loud, IGN, is it really that hard to write an honest headline?

Nomura says "We are going to be bringing dramatic changes, but we want to make sure it’s still recognizable," so off course the headline only mentions the dramatic changes. Nomura says the visuals will draw inspiration from Advent Children, the headline implies the combat mechanics will draw inspiration from Advent Children.

This bullSephiroth is precisely why I don't read IGN. They have taken what amounts to things we already knew and rephrased it to sound worse. Good job, guys.

dkma841

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« Reply #255 on: 2015-07-30 22:07:06 »
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« Last Edit: 2021-10-28 16:18:12 by dkma841 »

Covarr

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #256 on: 2015-07-30 22:37:56 »
Off topic but Covarr did you change my Avatar?? :o
No, if I was gonna change someone's avatar, it would either be a pirate (the same pirate avatar I always use) or EQ2Alyza (has she even noticed I made her global moderator?).

dkma841

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #257 on: 2015-07-30 23:24:10 »
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« Last Edit: 2021-10-28 16:15:57 by dkma841 »

EQ2Alyza

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #258 on: 2015-07-30 23:56:20 »
No, if I was gonna change someone's avatar, it would either be a pirate (the same pirate avatar I always use) or EQ2Alyza (has she even noticed I made her global moderator?).

Yes, I noticed. Thought it was an accident at first, but hasn't changed in awhile soooo lol

Covarr

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #259 on: 2015-07-31 00:48:09 »
Yeah, I was thinking about asking you if you were interested because I felt it would be helpful to have another moderator who's actually active and you seemed like the best candidate, but then I decided it would be funnier to just do it and see if you'd notice :P

Kaldarasha

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #260 on: 2015-08-07 17:27:15 »
It seems that they will use the UT4 engine.

yarLson

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #261 on: 2015-08-07 23:48:24 »
It seems that they will use the UT4 engine.
source?


Travis

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #263 on: 2015-08-09 03:08:02 »
It seems that they will use the UT4 engine.

I've seen this... now I know Luminous is being used on FF XV... But seriously, why did they even waste time with Agni's Philosophy if you aren't going to do anything with the engine you were showing off..........

Square is so damn frustrating.

StickySock

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #264 on: 2015-08-09 05:39:51 »
I really don't know very much about game development but isn't part of the reason why other companies can create 2-3 games in the time it takes Square to make one game is because a lot of other developers aren't trying to create an entirely new engine with every entry? So the use of UT4 engine could be an attempt to speed up game development, especially if they are having some issues with Luminous. From what I read about FFXV's development, it is being created during the time in which Luminous is being expanded and optimized. I assume Square Enix wants to start on all of these other projects, but does not want to wait for Luminous and FFXV to be finished.

Also, the focus on the capabilities of Luminous engine, as shown in the highly detailed and technically impressive Agni's Philosophy demos are probably more for investors IMO. As impressive as those demos may be, I wonder how difficult Luminous is to work with, or how close to completion most of its features are. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see any potential FFXV sequels or FF Type series games being made with the Luminous engine later on once its finished, but in the meantime I think Square Enix must think that UT4 is adequate and will allow them to be more timely and cost efficient.

That being said, I hope UT4 does not come with any shortcomings in quality. The FFXIII games, as sub-par as I felt they were, I thought were very polished and technically gorgeous. The Crystal Tools engine seemed to be of a much higher quality than UT3. A lot of games last generation made with UT3 had framerate issues, washed out colors, texture pop-in, and were very glitchy. I don't know how much of that is the engine's fault or the studios who made those games because of a lack of QA testing, but there is a correlation there nonetheless.

If the UT engines are cheaper alternatives to creating your own engines, than another variable that could stand in the way of preconceived notion of UT engine leading to lower quality games might just be that studios who look to save money by using the engine simply don't have Square Enix's budget for their games.

At this point I am talking in circles with myself, but although the news isn't great I'm not getting too worked up over it yet. But my previous experience with games made with UT seem to have only been great in spite of UT, not because of it.

Kaldarasha

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #265 on: 2015-08-09 09:22:12 »
I guess they use the UT4 engine for two reasons: It is a very powerful engine which is ready to use and it is designed for crossplatforming. SE would be stupid to only develop it on PS4. But the 'play it first on PS4' means that they aren't.
The good thing is that it makes it easier to mod the game (if they release it on PC).

Halfer

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #266 on: 2015-08-09 11:24:48 »
I don't think they have completely dumped the Luminous engine for future games but as I see it is that it is developed simultaneously with FFXV and they had plans to use it as an editor but it turned out to be really complicated to be a game making engine yet since it's not even finished yet.

I think they don't want to repeat the same mistake with developing time for KH3 and FF7R since it's not finished and those are in development right. Saving time and making the games with working and finished tools is a wise thing from SE to do.

dkma841

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« Reply #267 on: 2015-08-09 23:29:19 »
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« Last Edit: 2021-10-28 16:15:22 by dkma841 »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #268 on: 2015-08-11 02:32:40 »
SE not using the Luminous engine is pretty good news in my opinion, not only for the obvious practical reasons, but for the fact that this probably means the game will truly be its own experience, not just FF15 with a pretty FF7 dress slapped on top of it, which was one of my original worries.

With the costs invested in Luminous, and the costs of producing next gen graphics for large games like FF7, cutting corners will be a constant element of game-development, and one of the easiest ways for them to save money and resources would be to simply use most of the tech and resources they've already developed for 15 with minor edits, instead of designing everything over from scratch.
If they're going for another engine, that probably means they'll have no other choice than to take the harder route, and we're looking at a much broader possibility for the game being drastically different from the other FF games they have produced the last 5 years.
That's a good thing IMO.

One worry that I still have though, in light of the trailer, and in light of development costs, time frame, etc. is that this isn't going to be a conventional remake at all.
The trailer clearly shows a time-skip with two widely different conceptions of Midgard. Add that together with the monologue, and I'm starting to think the game might actually be set post-FF7with the events of FF7 being retold as flash-backs much like the way the Nibelheim incident was told in Calm in the original.
If they opt for such a format, they can save tons of resources and time, because they'll have a really good excuse not to make the world-map (or an 1:1 scale open world equivalent), add the mini-games, or locations not needed to tell the essentials of the original plot.

They could literally have the entire game based in a future Midgard hub-city, have the cast meet up in Tifa's bar or something, and then present just the choice moments of the original story in a chapter-by-chapter based fashion, and eliminate any "dead weight" along the way, such as exploration, chocobo breeding/racing, Kondor and the RTS stuff there, most of the natural "dungeons"(caves, mountain roads etc.), running through the snow and climbing North Crater etc.

I'm not saying I would like them to do this (I definitely wouldn't), but it actually seems really likely at this point granted the trailer, granted the likely release dates (an official Sony advert in Edge Magazine has the game listed as "TBA 2016"), granted production costs and the scope of the original game, and granted that they're apparently doing it from scratch on something other than Luminous.

It's also a great design choice if they wish to also incorporate the scenes and stories from the compilation, or even worse, add them
as DLC. When the narrator(s) is/are done telling us about FF7, he/she/they could, by a prompt, then proceed to tell us about the events of Advent Children, or Crisis Core, or whatever else.
I hope for god's sake they don't go this route, but I have a really bad feeling that this is what we'll end up seeing.

More pwixels and edited colouring I wouldn't call that modding :p but yeah games like this at current gen need no modding at all, I know I wouldn't bother

*Looks at the FF13 PC port, every single current gen Ubisoft PC title, The Witcher series and a bunch of other titles*

No, modern games need modding just as much as ever, if not more than a decade or two ago - because developers keep pushing out bad and unfinished products to meet unrealistic dead-lines at more and more alarming frequencies.
Modding is not just limited to the kind of up-grades you see here at Qhimm, dealing with attempts to increase visual and audio fidelity, but also bug-fixing, re-balancing and other system-related edits.

gjoerulv

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #269 on: 2015-08-11 14:14:07 »
...

One worry that I still have though, in light of the trailer, and in light of development costs, time frame, etc. is that this isn't going to be a conventional remake at all.
The trailer clearly shows a time-skip with two widely different conceptions of Midgard. Add that together with the monologue, and I'm starting to think the game might actually be set post-FF7with the events of FF7 being retold as flash-backs much like the way the Nibelheim incident was told in Calm in the original.
If they opt for such a format, they can save tons of resources and time, because they'll have a really good excuse not to make the world-map (or an 1:1 scale open world equivalent), add the mini-games, or locations not needed to tell the essentials of the original plot.

They could literally have the entire game based in a future Midgard hub-city, have the cast meet up in Tifa's bar or something, and then present just the choice moments of the original story in a chapter-by-chapter based fashion, and eliminate any "dead weight" along the way, such as exploration, chocobo breeding/racing, Kondor and the RTS stuff there, most of the natural "dungeons"(caves, mountain roads etc.), running through the snow and climbing North Crater etc.

I'm not saying I would like them to do this (I definitely wouldn't), but it actually seems really likely at this point granted the trailer, granted the likely release dates (an official Sony advert in Edge Magazine has the game listed as "TBA 2016"), granted production costs and the scope of the original game, and granted that they're apparently doing it from scratch on something other than Luminous.

It's also a great design choice if they wish to also incorporate the scenes and stories from the compilation, or even worse, add them
as DLC. When the narrator(s) is/are done telling us about FF7, he/she/they could, by a prompt, then proceed to tell us about the events of Advent Children, or Crisis Core, or whatever else.
I hope for god's sake they don't go this route, but I have a really bad feeling that this is what we'll end up seeing.

...

Are there more trailers? I tried a lazy google attempt but didn't find any. The trailer we got is too vague to be conclusive on this matter, but if it is true then it adds a +1 in my "why I dread a remake" subconsciousness.

EDIT: Basically this would be more like an Advent Children 2 then.
« Last Edit: 2015-08-11 14:30:20 by gjoerulv »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #270 on: 2015-08-11 16:54:12 »
Are there more trailers? I tried a lazy google attempt but didn't find any. The trailer we got is too vague to be conclusive on this matter, but if it is true then it adds a +1 in my "why I dread a remake" subconsciousness.

No, it's just the one trailer, but I think the trailer is pretty clear if you know what to look for - of course, this assumes that the trailer is representative of what the game will look like, and is not simply a custom made promo trailer that's completely tailored for the announcement and nothing else - which may or may not be the case given SE's propensity for trolling its fans.

But, let me break it down anyways -

1. The video clearly contains two very different conceptions of Midgard.
Several of the first shots of Midgard in daytime shows no signs of the plate.
The buildings are architecturally speaking vastly different from the original Midgard, but also vastly different from the later shots of Midgard in the same trailer. The skyscrapers seen in the day-time shot, are shown to reach all the way down to ground level in the evening shot over the playground.
The day-time Midgard literally makes no sense with the architecture and design of the original Migard - yet, the later night-time shots shows a Midgard that is almost shot-by-shot true to the original, although most people didn't notice it seems.

Let's take a closer look though -
The night-time shots begin, and you then have a scene that clearly shows the slum under the plate, near the foot of the support-structure holding it up.


The place I outline is clearly one of the support beams of the plate, maybe even the very place where Cloud and Co fights Reno for the first time.

The shot at about 0.50 seconds in, clearly shows the old Midgard in a panorama view - it's the Shinra HQ - Just compare these two shots for reference.



In the night-time shots, there are no signs of the modern skyscrapers reaching down to the ground level, not among the buildings in the sectors,
nor surrounding the Shinra building. The night-time Midgard is clearly the original Midgard - the daytime shots are clearly not.

For reference





If these scenes were supposed to be in the same Midgard as the one being shows in the night-time scenes, then these building, or ones similar to them, should be visible in the shot of the Shinra Building, since the Shinra building is atop the plate, as these would have to be too, seeing as we can see the Sky above them.
Yet in the shot of the Shinra building, at 0.50, the building atop the plate, are decidedly in tune with the architecture of the building atop the plate from the original game, with no signs of modern glass and steel Skyscrapers or anything even remotely similar.

These two Midgards are not the same. That much, I would say, is patently obvious. I might be wrong, but it seems more likely I am right.

2. The trailer shows two different trains - The first one, a modern train similar to the ones you find circling Tokyo, with an information map referencing (South) Edge, a town that didn't exist in the original game, nor makes sense with the lore considering that the places in the original Midgard no longer had names, and were referred to only as "sectors".
The second one, you see in the background of the playground, is the original train from the intro of FF7 (yeah).
This latter train, as you all probably remember, ran from the bottom of the plate to the top of it, running by the reactors. There is literally no reason why you'd have both at the same time.

Add this two points together, and then add in the point about production time, costs, and the convenient way in which it will allow Nomura to tell pretty much the entire story, and even include the compilation with relative ease, I think it's a pretty decent theory.

EDIT: Basically this would be more like an Advent Children 2 then.

Yep...

gjoerulv

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #271 on: 2015-08-12 11:49:09 »
Sounds like it could be true. I did scratch my head when I saw those skyscrapers, thinking where it could possibly be. I haven't done any theory crafting on it, just assumed a stylistic change. But, then again, those skyscrapers, as I see it, have to be in proximity to Shinra HQ (if not a new city?). They're clearly not there in the night time shots. What else to believe than post-meteor Midgard?

Regarding post-meteor Midgard: Given the FF7 ending, I always assumed humanity did not survive (returned to the planet if you will). Now AC clearly debunked that. Still, I kinda think that was one of the possible interpretations the original authors wanted.

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #272 on: 2015-08-12 15:18:58 »
Sounds like it could be true. I did scratch my head when I saw those skyscrapers, thinking where it could possibly be. I haven't done any theory crafting on it, just assumed a stylistic change. But, then again, those skyscrapers, as I see it, have to be in proximity to Shinra HQ (if not a new city?). They're clearly not there in the night time shots. What else to believe than post-meteor Midgard?

To be fair, there are at least two common criticisms of this theory, both found in the trailer analysis article on thelifestream.net
I don't find either of them particularly convincing though.

The first one tries to make the argument that because the daytime shots clearly show Mako pipelines it can't be set in the future, because
the reactors were no longer active after the events of the original.
This is nonsensical though, since even after the fall of the meteor, it would still require less job and be more sensible to work around the original
architecture, rather than dismantle everything that no longer worked after that event. The pipelines are huge, as are the reactors, so it would take a very long time before all traces of the original infrastructure would be entirely gone. And this doesn't even go into the possibility of the pipe-lines being used for other types of energy, like gass, oil, or as a protective structure covering electrical cables.

The second criticism is about the train and the reference to Edge. It rightfully points out that the first train-station of the original game was named "North Edge Station", but the sign with the name wasn't readable due to low resolutions in the original PSX version.
I still think this is a stretch because
A.) it conflicts with the narrative, and where the art and the narrative conflicts, I think the narrative takes precedence - besides it's perfectly
possible that this detail was a remnant of a design choice that was made before the plot of the game was entirely finalized, but simply
not edited or removed because nobody could make it out in the original anyway.
B.) Since the trailer is entirely pre-rendered, everything about it is carefully planned. No scene in this trailer is there by accident.
While a discrepancy like the station name in the original and it's conflict with Jessie's (or was it Barret's?) statement about the towns
no longer having names (and all the other stations being referred to simply by reference to their specific place and sector) in the game is
understandable because games are made by large teams in often very organic ways, a completely pre-rendered cinematic trailer for a grand
reveal at a conference is not.
If the trailer dwells purposefully on the name "South Edge", that is to give the viewer a specific hint - not just some inconsequential piece of
random information referring to some random Reactor train-station.

The train criticism makes even less sense when you consider that in the original, the train that went to "North Edge"(and therefore also presumably "South Edge") was the train you see later in the trailer passing the park, not the modern one you see in the beginning of the trailer.

Regarding post-meteor Midgard: Given the FF7 ending, I always assumed humanity did not survive (returned to the planet if you will). Now AC clearly debunked that. Still, I kinda think that was one of the possible interpretations the original authors wanted.

I always took the ending to mean, not necessarily that humanity didn't survive, but that they abandoned Midgard - which would make perfect sense.
Midgard was a huge metropolis built and designed specifically to function through the use of the Mako reactors. The entire infrastructure of
the city is founded on, and dependent on the Mako Reactors.
Once Mako stops flowing the entire city breaks down, and when you consider the infrastructure and the building density of Midgard, there simply is no feasible way to power the city anymore (unless you could replace each Mako Reactor with a Nuclear Reactor or something to that effect).
This literally means that after the fall of the meteor, Midgard would be a huge, immobile, powerless and lifeless piece of metal.
The logical thing to do for everyone at that point, would be to migrate back to the country-side, to towns such as Calm or Nibelheim etc. not waste time trying to live in a place where nothing grows at the moment, in houses in a city covered by pollution that has no electricity, and by extension, probably no running water.

AC/DoC shat all over the logic of the ending of FF7. That's one of the big reason I hated the movie and that game. No, people did not stick around in Midgard. It doesn't make sense, and it completely ruins the sense of the scene with Nanaki and his kids.
I mean, how many hundred years in the future would that have to be, if the events of AC/DoC are to be canon?

Although I'm pretty much out of hope for the remake now, I just wished they'd sink the compilation material to the bottom of the sea, ignore it
and remake the game by sticking as close to the original story as possible. I just don't see that happening anymore.

gjoerulv

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #273 on: 2015-08-12 19:19:31 »
Wishful thinking:
Maybe the daylight shots are from the ending, after meteor, in a new, re-built Midgard.

I don't like to speculate like this, but I kinda agree with you. Post-meteor Midgar makes most sense.

I always took the ending to mean, not necessarily that humanity didn't survive, but that they abandoned Midgard - which would make perfect sense.

This too I had in mind. To be fair, people staying in Midgard kinda is in character, and stays "true" to what Cloud said on the train in the beginning of the game. Thats why I favored the "everyone is dead" ending. But, shrug... The important thing, imo, was that the ending was open for interpretation. I like that kind of shit.

Although I'm pretty much out of hope for the remake now, I just wished they'd sink the compilation material to the bottom of the sea, ignore it
and remake the game by sticking as close to the original story as possible. I just don't see that happening anymore.

A reboot/reimagining of FF7 is what I hope for. Not a continuation of the trainwreck FF7 expanded universe. I saw a video on youtube just some hours ago ("top 5 I want to see in FF7R" or something like that) where the guy talking wanted the CC characters in the remake... The horror... I have also seen this in other channels/forums/etc. "I hope they bring X character in", "I hope they continue into the AC story"... Now, I don't mind new characters/storyline as long as it's done good (whatever that is lol). Most of the expanded universe characters though have a certain fecapalm-otaku appeal value to them that I'm sick of. Does that make sense?

Some things to fix from the top of my head:
Cait Sith. Dat effin bastard. I wouldn't mind it that much if IT actually died in the temple of the Ancients, and did not return. Ever. Reeve could get other means to communicate with Cloud & co.

Many cut-scenes after Midgard could use some more meat. At certain points in the game the cutscene vs gameplay ratio is a bit off imo.

Yuffie's side story feels like fanservice. The turks and the don is too conveniently there. Not terrible by any means, but could also be done a lot better.

If only I had control over the remake  :evil:

picklejar

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #274 on: 2015-08-13 01:49:05 »
I actually had an idea around how to influence Square Enix to make the remake in the way the fans would want them to.

The basic idea is a "pledge" website where fans pool their money to voice their opinions and pledge their money to SE if they design the remake according to their desires. For most practical purposes, the fan's money is not just a donation to SE, it's basically used to buy the game. The website is owned by an organization that acts as mediator between the fans and SE. If SE makes the game according to how the fans want it, they get the money (and the fans get the FF7R game), otherwise the fans get their money back, and possibly pledge not to buy the game or give SE any money.

Actually it's more complex than this; fans can divide their money according to different features, instead of all-or-nothing; SE might have an agreement with the mediating company to give fans a discount on the game; there needs to be specific criteria to determine if the fans got what they wanted; and lots of other logistical challenges. But, this could radically change the way remakes are done, in general, for all art forms (games, movies, etc.).

A couple of other problems I see with this are: (1) the remaker has more incentive to satisfy as many fans as possible to get the most money, which might actually not be a good thing, but then again they can always choose to design for a smaller crowd and be more special that way; (2) people with more money will have more influence, which isn't necessarily fair, although the fans will tend to be older and make more money, so this tends to be biased towards older fans, which is a good thing, for the older fans. (3) the fan's pledges and opinions need to be collected very early during development, early enough to actually be able to influence how SE makes the game. (4) Lots of other logistical challenges like this...

Anyway... Anyone wanna help me build this company and website? ;) there's lots of other cool ideas related to this, like a system that's smart and continually learns about which different aspects of the game fans are interested in, etc.
« Last Edit: 2015-08-13 01:56:08 by picklejar »