[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

[Covarr]

This thread is for bug reports on Reunion - not an answer session on which mods will work with which.  That's also said on the first post. I don't know if a mod will or will not work with Reunion. If someone else wants to - okay.  The issue then is this thread getting bogged down with offtopic posts.

Let me put it another way: You are not a moderator, and have no authority to tell people what they can and can't post. Leave such issues to site staff.

The qhimm.com forum as a whole is a discussion forum, not just a bug reports forum. By your very same logic, these people couldn't ask about compatibility with reunion in that mod's thread either, because "that's a Reunion question, not a New Threat question", at which point people simply can't get an answer.

I understand your frustration, but seriously, if you don't like a post, just ignore it. Your constant posts telling people off for replies that you don't want to see "bog the thread down" (whatever that means) just as much as the posts themselves, and they clearly aren't working anyway.

[DLPB_]

That's your opinion - and one I don't agree with.  What will happen now is more offtopic posts followed by more offtopic replies. Hopefully the fact people here know what I think about it means they'll be less likely to do it.  I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to want their thread to keep to specific issues.  I do find it ironic that you say all that and neglect to mention that Aali was given mod powers - and one of the reasons was to stop offtopic nonsense.

I will certainly ignore such posts - and will make it clear on the first post why I won't respond.

edit.  I also agreed to do this your way in my other post - although maybe that wasn't too clear.

[Damned]

Another question about the WEAPON mod.

How extensive of an update to the enemies are we talking about here?

1. Increasing their stats?
2. Minor tweaks to their AI?
3. Complete overhaul of their AI?

[DLPB_]

Hard to say.  The goal is to make the game more fun and challenging and thought provoking - but again with the original style in mind. That means definitely no monsters that weren't there originally.  It will be an awful lot of changes - but if I don't need to change something I won't.  In other words, there's no changing senseless things.  In one scene, I have had some fun - but that's due to having to add a new scene because game over can result from not doing the task in time   It's not over the top either.

[Zhnigo]

Non-dialogue documentation can be found HERE.  Please remember to look at this before asking questions about character/item/weapon/materia names and so forth.

Line 787, shouldn't it be "Sandals"?

[DLPB_]

Well spotted.

That also needs fixing in the relocalization.

edit. 

It's now fixed.  Thanks.

[DLPB_]

OK so... I have been working hard to fix the most important scene in the whole game - Cloud remembering who he is.  Let's look at the errors (one's in red are also present in PSX):

1. When using Model Overhaul, Cloud does not correctly disarm Zax (Zax remains with sword).  Fixed.

2. Zax disappears for a frame when being disarmed, because the Zax-with-sword model is hidden before showing the one without.  Fixed.

3. When Cloud confronts Sephiroth and then takes off his helmet (my favourite part of the whole game), he disappears for the same reason as above.  This time the soldier model is hidden before the Cloud-without-helmet is shown. Fixed.

4. When using Model Overhaul, Cloud can still be seen on screen while putting his helmet on.  Fixed. [Part of his hair can be seen in the original game too]

5. Zax then turns to Cloud and shrugs.  Originally, he turns to the wrong model (the Cloud model that is now off screen).  Fixed.

6. When Cloud sits up among the flames of Niblheim, he then goes instantly back into his unconscious stance.  This is a huge error, because the whole point is showing how he escaped the flames in time. He's supposed to stay sitting up. Fixed.
[Actually, the entire animation sequence here is wrecked.  They have used the opcode that returns to previous state AND, in Cloud main, they've set Cloud's lying down stance to loop by accident, which is why he returns to lying down in error.]

7. When cloud returns to take Tifa to safety, he is not carrying the Buster Sword. Fixed.

8. He then confronts Sephiroth without the Buster Sword (how was he expecting to finish him off?).  You can clearly see that the animation here intends a sword but, for some reason, they forgot to use the correct model.  Fixed.

To do:  1. The music is ending too soon.  It's supposed to end as Cloud throws Sephiroth over the railings. I am going to be looking at the PSX version soon and ascertaining where the issue lies.  It could be that Anxious Heart starts the music at the wrong point, but I don't think so.

2. As Cloud takes off his helmet, his hand animates the totally wrong direction (ETBE). Fixed. [The PSX version has block hands, so you don't notice this]

[DLPB_]

Looks like a new version of Anxious Heart is needed   The Final Fantasy VII theme that plays when Cloud takes his helmet off has been edited deliberately to prolong the music by looping around 3 times in a particular area.  I assumed it just played from one point to the end.  It doesn't. So that's a mistake on my part, and I'll need to create a new one.

Here is a video.  This is how it is supposed to loop.  The music is actually ending too late here because the emulator I used is crap. But you'll get the point.  Also note the script errors I mentioned above (Cloud disappearing for a frame / Cloud going back to lying down position / Zax looking at the hidden model and not the Cloud-with-Helmet model)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbizljHjTJ8

[lorywindrunner]

Are animations being drastically sped up with the 60 fps mod ever going to be addressed or is that something that is unfixable and we have to deal with?

Cloud shoots at enemies at lightspeed to attack them and when enemies explode when they die it looks very silly because of how fast the animation is.

[DLPB_]

It's very likely there to stay.  I've done all I can regarding the 60fps mod.  NFITC1 or Dziugo may, at some point, chip in I am hoping.  You have to realize that the battle was never designed to use the pause var as a means of limiting to 60fps - and because of this, things happen that ordinarily would not.   It's quite likely that this error exists in the original game - that you pause at a certain time and the models still move for a while.

[DLPB_]

Another error in the Cloud reveal sequence (nvmkin32).  A partial animation (3, frame 99) is being set (in Group7, Script3)  that isn't needed and is also wrong.  It displays the wrong Cloud-with-helmet stance before the actual animation (4) is played.  All that's needed is animation 4, frame 0 being set as a partial animation - and then animation 4 being played after the model is shown.

Which also brings me to another error... I think.  During the Nibl flashback, Sephiroth executes 2 villagers.  It always bugged me that there was a clownish delay from his sword hitting them to them animating being killed.  It made the moment comedic when it wasn't meant to be.  I think it was an error.  Time to fix.

edit.

Yeah - it's having to wait for the animation.  I know a way to fix this

Both these issues are present in PSX version also.

[DLPB_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCL73kTcGe8

Fixed.

Also, the Camera Man originally has his eyes open and can blink.

[DynamixDJ]

Good work!!

-Edit- I've been thinking, given the fact that you are attempting to fix as many bugs as poss with FFVII, how many battle related bugs are you looking at? While I would love to take a break from my guide to play Reunion, I'm not going to, nor will I have the time to anytime soon, so I don't know the exact extent of your project, but I can list a few easily fixable bugs that are still present in your mod:

Any field map screen that has an encounter rate of 32 or above will overflow, thereby gaining a 100% chance of being encountered, special battles not included (as the special battle check occurs prior to the normal battle check). This glitch does not occur on the World Map.

Because I'm too lazy to edit, I'll just C&P the content of my (soon-to-be released) Formation Charts:

Code: [Select]

      ______________________________________________________________________
      |                                                                      |
      | "mtcrl_4" (Mt. Corel "Rollercoaster" screen):                        |
      |            #504 3x Needle Kiss, 1x Cokatolis  Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #505 2x Cokatolis                  Enc 30                 |
      |                                                                      |
      |                                                                      |
      | "mtcrl_9" (Mt. Corel "Bridge" screen):                               |
      |            #513 1x Bomb                       Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #514 1x Bagnadrana                 Enc 30                 |
      |                                                                      |
      |                                                                      |
      | "mtnvl3" (Mt. Nibel "Bridge" screen [during flashback only]):        |
      |            #584 3x Sonic Speed                Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #585 2x Sonic Speed                Enc 30                 |
      |                                                                      |
      |                                                                      |
      | "junsbd1" (Junon "Red Submarine Dock" Screen [past barking dog]):    |
      |            #761 3x SOLDIER:2nd                Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #762 2x SOLDIER:2nd                Enc 30                 |
      |                                                                      |
      |                                                                      |
      | "junin2" (Junon "Outside Press Conference" screen [during escape]):  |
      |            #944 1x SOLDIER:2nd                Enc 34                 |
      | Overrides: #945 2x SODLIER:2ND                Enc 30                 |
      |______________________________________________________________________|

Setting the encounter rate to 17 then duplicating the encounter should fix the problem

blin68_1 & blin68_2 both have formation 451 (2x Zenene, "Pincer" attack) with encounter rate 0. This seems like an error. Also, blin68_2 has random encounters disabled. I suspect that this was intentional for the first time you enter this screen (Sample fight), however they forgot to re-enable them.

Some of the bosses have the incorrect Setup flag used, and as such pre-emptive Strikes are possible.  Aps (#386), jenova Birth (#488), Turks Gongaga (#539), Snow (#679) and Turks Midgar (#840) all use the "FFF9" Setup flag (can't escape). Change this flag to FFE9 to disable preemptive chances (and retain the can't escape flag). Note that if random encounters are disabled on a screen then the preemptive chance is off by default. Also note that the Snow battle is a unique formation, and is not the same randomly encountered Snow.

Also, I've spotted a few errors with the cover flags that are used. I wish to God I'd listed all of the errors that I'd found... foolish me, anyway, here's the one that I can remember:
Battle #634. The 2x Kelzmelzer are supposed to cover the 2x Toxic Frog, however they do not.

Lastly, the Bahba Velamyu (#144) has been incorrectly used for 2 groups of "next arenas", meaning that if you are in pool B (set 2), and you land on #144 as battle 6, you will be moved over to pool A as battle 7. This can be corrected by choosing a battle of your choice, and selecting the following battles as "next arena":

0238, 0245, 0248, 0254

I've checked to see if there is a battle formation that has these values set to next arena, but is not called upon via the previous battle 5 (i.e. the "missing" formation), however there are only 3 formations that use these "next arena" formations, so you could literally choose any formation that fits as the fourth "Set 2 - Group B - Battle 6" battle. Remember to edit battles #542 (021E), #545 (0221), #548 (0224) and #554 (022A); the last "Next Arena" must be changed from 0090 to whatever formation ID you have chosen.

[Sega Chief]

I never knew about that encounter thing; good find.

[DLPB_]

Yeah any bugs with battle will be dealt with.  It's going to be a ridiculous task.  I'll be happy if I can get something that is fun to play and more or less consistent. 

It would be a help if you posted anything you find in a separate thread regarding battle stuff.  I haven't started the battle mod properly - and this stuff will need documenting for everyone.  And I already know there's a lot of stuff.

[DynamixDJ]

As mentioned, I have nearly finished my formation charts. I checked over my work using various FAQs from GameFaq (Tferg and MGSB), and because I'm such a nice guy I have compiled a list for both authors of mistakes that I found in their work. I am absolutely kicking myself for not making a third list of developers errors... I didn't really have you in mind at the time DB.

Seeing as it's all still relatively fresh in my mind, I'm considering giving my chart a complete once-over once it's uploaded, and I'll list as many bugs or potential bus as I can possibly find, and like you said, I'll create a new topic in the "scripting" forum.

[obesebear]

It's very likely there to stay.  I've done all I can regarding the 60fps mod.  NFITC1 or Dziugo may, at some point, chip in I am hoping.  You have to realize that the battle was never designed to use the pause var as a means of limiting to 60fps - and because of this, things happen that ordinarily would not.   It's quite likely that this error exists in the original game - that you pause at a certain time and the models still move for a while.

When NFITC1 was working on the smooth 60fps mod, he made it sound like delaying the action scripts would be fairly simple. I would imagine that would include both character movement speed when attacking and the death animation.

[lorywindrunner]

It's very likely there to stay.  I've done all I can regarding the 60fps mod.  NFITC1 or Dziugo may, at some point, chip in I am hoping.  You have to realize that the battle was never designed to use the pause var as a means of limiting to 60fps - and because of this, things happen that ordinarily would not.   It's quite likely that this error exists in the original game - that you pause at a certain time and the models still move for a while.

Yeah that isn't surprising was just being hopeful!

Can i get some clarification on the "Incorrect character names" toggle? What names are changed from this? If I want all the original english names do i tick it or keep it unticked?

[DLPB_]

You tick it - see the help file

The names that change are:

Code: [Select]

Zax>Zack
Leno>Reno
Yrena>Elena
Gusto>Gast
Elmina>Elmyra
Zeng>Tseng
Mina>Myrna
Sierra>Shera
Godot>Godo
Crean>Chole
Grean>Choco Bill
Greene>Choco Billy
Marin>Marlene
Barrett>Barret

@obesebear  The way I am limiting the game means it's a little different - but perhaps that fix can still be incorporated, if it's the same issue.

[DLPB_]

I always spot something that makes dialogue a little more natural.

trackin2 [This is actually meant to be "Truck Interior/Inside 2"]


Before
Zax
“Hey,{CLOUD}.
  If you aren’t feeling well,how
  about taking off the helmet?”


After
Zax
“Hey,{CLOUD}.
  If you aren’t feeling well,
  why don’t you lose the helmet?”

I assume this works equally in America?

[lorywindrunner]

You tick it - see the help file

The names that change are:

Code: [Select]

Zax>Zack
Leno>Reno
Yrena>Elena
Gusto>Gast
Elmina>Elmyra
Zeng>Tseng
Mina>Myrna
Sierra>Shera
Godot>Godo
Crean>Chole
Grean>Choco Bill
Greene>Choco Billy
Marin>Marlene
Barrett>Barret

@obesebear  The way I am limiting the game means it's a little different - but perhaps that fix can still be incorporated, if it's the same issue.

Yeah i checked the readme but it wasn't clear so I thought I would double check.

Would it be possible to get an option to not change the limit break names as well? I prefer the originals ex Beat Rush, Cross Slash, etc. I love the changed dialogue for the most part but the changed names just don't feel right to me.

[obesebear]

I think it sounds good.

[DLPB_]

@lorywindrunner

A retranslation is a retranslation.  If I start offering original names for everything, not only is that a big effort, it defeats the whole purpose of a retranslation. You can change them yourself soon, when the new touphScript is uploaded.   The concessions above are the only ones being made. The only reason the names don't feel right to you is because you are used to the original names.

[lorywindrunner]

@lorywindrunner

A retranslation is a retranslation.  If I start offering original names for everything, not only is that a big effort, it defeats the whole purpose of a retranslation. You can change them yourself soon, when the new touphScript is uploaded.   The concessions above are the only ones being made. The only reason the names don't feel right to you is because you are used to the original names.

That sounds like a pretty valid reason to me. If it's not a valid reason than why does the retranslation allow us to use the original english names? That is the same exact situation.

The english names for the limit breaks are still used even in later games. I think translating a name and full sentences are pretty different. One seems more deliberate and the other seems like mistakes were made during the process.

Being able to edit things ourselves seems like a pretty cool idea though.

[DLPB_]

It's not the same situation, because character names are established (unfortunately) as a canon in a ton of media - even outside of the game franchise. I allowed that as a concession.  I am definitely not adding concessions for everything else as well. I am flexible enough to bend on certain issues, but not to the point where I am breaking. The character names and all other mistakes were mistakes that should have been corrected, but never were (apart from Aerith).

All this could have been avoided if Square 1996/7 had bothered to take localization more seriously.  Instead, I have to continually see "W Summon" and "Zack" in the media.