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Final Fantasy 7 => Audio => Releases => Topic started by: vexatious on 2013-07-16 23:00:54
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Huge pat set version 0.2.8 (you need 7zip)
http://speedy.sh/Np6wr/huge-pats-0.2.8.7z (http://speedy.sh/Np6wr/huge-pats-0.2.8.7z)
xg.lgp with vocals added (download xg-vocals-psdrums.lgp if you want "One Winged Angel" like the playstation. It's six seconds of drums towards end)
http://speedy.sh/M6j2A/xg-vocals.lgp (http://speedy.sh/M6j2A/xg-vocals.lgp)
http://speedy.sh/HmbeK/xg-vocals-psdrums.lgp (http://speedy.sh/HmbeK/xg-vocals-psdrums.lgp)
These are samples recorded from the pat-set with timidity++ running real-time so you get a taste of it :). Used the following timidity settings --no-realtime-load -EM43 -EFdelay=0 -Ew -Ep -Ev -Es -Ee -Et -Eo -Ez -A70,100 -EFvlpf=m -EFchorus=n -EFreverb=n -EFns=0 -EFresamp=g -a -N 34+1 -s 48000 -OF --flac-complevel=best. Don't think midi can sound any better unless you get better samples or a new extension to the format.
http://speedy.sh/M6jFA/One-Winged-Angel-PSX-drums.flac (http://speedy.sh/M6jFA/One-Winged-Angel-PSX-drums.flac) (Virtually the same except a very short segment (like 6 seconds) towards end has drums)
http://speedy.sh/HmbpK/canyon.flac (http://speedy.sh/HmbpK/canyon.flac) This is a good track to demonstrate atmosphere achieved with the XG soundtrack IMO. Don't remember the PSX sounding this detailed and full either (same goes for all other XG midi tracks).
http://speedy.sh/UfGZV/One-Winged-Angel.flac (http://speedy.sh/UfGZV/One-Winged-Angel.flac) (Original XG track (with the vocals added of course :) )
Consider these temporary links until better host is found.
HOW TO:[/color]
Install timidity++ and use the following options --no-realtime-load -EM43 -EFdelay=0 -Ew -Ep -Ev -Es -Ee -Et -Eo -Ez -A70,100 -EFvlpf=m -EFchorus=n -EFreverb=n -EFns=0 -EFresamp=g -a -N 34+1 -s 48000 You might need 44100khz if you're playing bit-perfect output from the SFX otherwise 48000 sounds better for the midi. You might need to change volume (-A70,100) to 100% (-A100,100), or lower to 50% (-A50,100); it really depends on your setup and is up to you. If you need guidance on setting these options through GUI, there's some explanation further down this thread. Also, for DOSBOX and other general midi, change -EM43 to -EM7e; you can change to -EM41 instead for GS midi also (yes this does have GS midi support).
ISSUES:
Make sure to use XG midi in timidity++ with zero noise shaping (prevents clipping). These won't sound correct with any other midi type for FFVII even if you use the right Timidity++ options. Reason pat-set was made with FFVII XG soundtrack in mind, is it sounds a lot better than general midi (also why it sounds as good as the PSX if not better). Also, the awe and general midi soundtracks were meant to be used with custom soundfonts included with FFVII at time of release; almost all soundfonts generally don't sound correct with FFVII in that regard (you must use the custom soundfonts included with the game, or one made specifically for FFVII). The pat-set however, is compatible with DOSBOX, ZDOOM, and other midi software (and it sounds great), but you must choose general midi in timidity++ for respective playback (if you leave XG midi enabled, music and/or sound effects will be wrong for general midi playback, and likewise for XG midi. Timidity++ doesn't automagically select proper midi settings for you unfortunately).
There doesn't seem to be serious issues but some instruments might need tweaking (sinra.mid does have a problem sounding right (if you fast forward the track and resume normal speed in real-time it ends up sounding better), but it's pretty much nit-picking and is really up to whoever wants to master the tracks). Dog barks, laughing and other sounds could use higher resolution IMO.
Issue either with Timidity limitation or XG mappings in xgmap.cfg. Midi tracks that call a "hand cymbal" on program 49, instrument 51, drumset 0, will get a "ride ping". At first this seems right since a "ride ping" is supposed to be on instrument 51 bank 0, but on real XG hardware a "closed hand cymbal" is triggered instead if program 49 is used (it's the same instrument 51 and same bank 0, but a different program). This issue probably occurs with other instruments in the same manner. Don't think I can resolve this as I'll probably have to go through XG documents and make a more appropriate xgmap.cfg file, and/or edit timidity source code (I'd need a cross-compiler to build it for Windows from Linux too). This problem is worked around with the patched lgp sets from above (XG midi needs to patched for vocals so why not).
After contacting Eric Welsh (author of the xgmap.cfg and many other things to do with TiMidity), he recommend I use separate "closed hand cymbal" and "ride ping" wave files, and combine them into a single pat. Going to try this when I have time and see what happens, but first I have to figure out how to make a pat (I do have some dos utilities that might work). Personally think timidity++ is limited and it just won't fix the XG mapping limitation (as mentioned above).
NOTE:
Timidity++ (twsyng) has been reported to not function with the recent re-release PC version of FFVII and AAli's driver. Since I only have the original release I'm unable to help in that regard. Hopefully AAli can work on his driver for Timidity++ support (twsyng).
Regards
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I'll hazard a comment/question even though I'm slow on this stuff. You're really deep into the technical side of MIDI like I've never seen and I know a couple of very enthusiastic synthesizer users.
Comment: Never ceases to amaze me the eclectic talent this particular forum draws in. Your obvious joy and passion for this subject is really neat to read about, even if it's way over my head.
Question: OMGWTFBBQ! Are you telling us you're going to fix the games midis so they sound good and actually work without problems? Is this one of those late April Fools jokes? Or even better will this fix only be available for the 12 people in the world running FF7 on a linux sys?
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This is for Windows users (and Linux) but if FFVII works under Linux using Wine or similar with timidity++, then it it'll work there too; the main program the pat set is targeting is timidity++ with support for Final Fantasy VII with some guidance for Linux users. Will probably work on Intel Mac OS systems; then again if your toaster runs timidity++ it'll probably work on that as well ;D.
I'm at the end of Final Fantasy VII trying to get a Gold chocobo on Windows 7 and had no issues what so ever. Think the pat set is near good enough.
It should be noted I didn't record any of the instruments and they were all grabbed from various soundfonts released by fine folks on the web for free. All credit goes to the authors. Will try to include the authors of the soundfonts used as best I can.
Updated main post with links as well but still getting pat set ready.
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This is terrific frikkin news! I have been wanting to try out timidity for a while now but wasn't sure about all the components needed for implementing it with ff7. I cannot wait to check out your set when you are done. No doubt in my mind they'll sound great; judging from all the jargon in your OP you clearly know sound lol. :-D Thanks for sharing with the community Vexatious.
What exactly consists of "XG compatible hardware"? I'm betting my motherboard's onboard sound won't cover that. If not, I want a new soundcard anyway. What should I get?
And yep, gold saucer song sounds pretty!
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You don't need a new sound card to listen to xg formatted music. Can use timidity++ instead with a very high quality pat set (or soundfont) and have the equivalent of a $3000+ midi synthesizer; it's purely software. Not only that, you don't have to worry about cables, ground loops and all that nonsense. You do have to set the right options in Timidity++, but once you set it you forget it; oh and you need a computer with Linux, Windows or Intel Mac OS :P. Timidity++ really shows the beauty of software. Thanks to Masanao Izumo and anyone else who helped with Timidity++.
XG compatible hardware consists of a midi module or wavetable card that can read and process XG formatted midi data.
Your onboard sound might be more than adequate (all you need is timidity++ software). You could check and see if it can do bit-perfect playback (most onboard realtek alc chipsets do bit-perfect playback and have very good snr); this means it doesn't resample everything to a specific rate. Live! and Audigy sound cards did this and it causes ugly aliasing and artifacts when sounds aren't evenly multiplied (44100 or 22050 upsampled to 48000 gets ugly and you have to use a powerful software resampler to avoid the ugliness; lots of people used foobar 2000 to resample 44100khz music to 48000khz when using live!-audigy cards for instance). This is yet another reason why Timidity++ is better than hardware; it resamples using gauss and sinc interpolation which does a fantastic job of making sure every instrument sounds as best as it can no matter what sample rate you use; only downside is it takes a chunk out of your cpu but it's definately higher quality (sure as heck don't trust an audigy2 to render soundfonts anymore).
Even if your soundcard can't do bit-perfect playback there are still plenty of software options to do the resampling required (some people might not even notice either). This isn't a big deal either to people who are used to gaming with a real Awe32, Live! or Audigy series sound cards :mrgreen: Personally prefer bit perfect playback over any features. It's also nice to have at least 98db snr or higher.
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Pat set released and reduced to 150mb! Still want it better (and smaller) but released it this way in case I lose track or it gets deleted somewhere.
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I hope you won't let the fact that there is .ogg support available through a plugin deter you from continuing to work on this... Surely you already knew but I couldn't help but notice you unbumped your own release by commenting on the Anxious Heart thread. It really is a treat to hear old school midi with good quality like this. The FF7music plugin is *almost* perfect. But native support like this will alleviate some bugs that might at least be noticeable to the "rabid fanboys" like me. For us and anyone who would like *knowing* the music will work in the next scene, this is a really cool project!
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Oops sorry, bump for some links for help with install as I go through it, for noobs like me.
Newest version of Timidity: TiMidity-CVS060306_setup_en (http://sourceforge.net/projects/twsynth/files/latest/download?source=recommended)
Midi Yoke for Windows (http://www.midiox.com/zip/MidiYokeSetup.msi) Will need this, again, worked fine with UAC off, I always have UAC off so I don't know if it matters or not. The readme on this one said UAC off.
I'll post more as I go, need to restart after Midi Yoke install.
There's really not much complicated about this other than you actually have to read his readme inside the huge_pads download to set it up, er, I had to read it a couple times.
Okay, after a small argument with my computer I got this all working smoothly. It really does sound different from the regular MIDI but it's exactly the same (obviously) as far as like tempo and style, but the instruments are a lot nicer sounding. So it's not just a little different, it's a little different and a lot nicer sounding. I think these are the correct ff7config MIDI settings
(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/electrotoyou/ff7cfgmusic_zps5da56df8.png)
I tried timidity + XG and it sounded off. I thought I was headed the wrong direction but timidity++ driver and General MIDI for data sounded noticeably better than the standard MIDIs, and the drums and horns were all mixed right.
Couple comments: the settings, I couldn't find a gauss interpolation option in the version of timidity I tried, we may need an updated link for that, or I just couldn't find it (like I can never find the spices I need, but they are right there in the rack). Also the drums are <too weak> at least as far as the standard battle tune goes. I'll try punching those up manually but I just thought I'd mention it, cus I did put them at 100. Really the overall volume seems too low maybe, I need to play with the settings.
Lastly, I really really like this and I think everyone should try it out just to see a little of what MIDI is capable of (and this is the tip of the tip of the iceberg). I wasn't using the MIDI's not because I couldn't stand them, but because the OSTRe is beautiful by comparison. But I'm gonna use these for a while, test a couple scenes I think they will fix and then maybe look into a soundcard anyway (since I like making digital mixes and its been a while since I had two digital sound outputs on my computer that I could beatmatch and crossfade).
Edit: regarding the screenshot above, everything sounds fine that way, but no drums if I put data to XG, soundfont (AWE32/64) sounds fine too, and I left it there for now.
I dont think I had the timidity.cfg set up correctly, you need to point it to the one in the huge_pat folder, this is what I ended up with:
(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/electrotoyou/Timiditycfg_zps297b86c6.png)
Does this all seem correct, Vex? I'm guessing XG input drums are cutting out because of onboard soundcard? Or do I need to adjust something? XG drums sound great on other songs, but the battle tune hasn't got them, weird. Either way I really like the sound of the AWE input. And I actually owned one of the very first SBAWE32 cards when I was about 12, so it just seems fitting to use that soundfont.
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You don't need a new soundcard for this. Timidity++ does everything in software. Only reason you'd need a new one is if your current one has really bad sound quality output. Timidity++ doesn't use any hardware wavetable features in any soundcards whether it's a yamaha XG MU-100, roland sound canvas, audigy 2, etc; it does it's own rendering using your main CPU. Timidity emulates hardware midi. Unless your onboard sound really does have pitiful sound quality you don't need a new one... At least make sure the pat set works properly before buying a new sound card for timidity and this pat set :oops:.
Made a mistake and put to use #extension opt -EFns=3 in the readme. This actually causes clipping and distortion which could very well be what you or others experience (similar to what you describe but doesn't make sense either since you say general midi works so maybe it's something else). Delete #extension opt -EFns=3 if using it or use 0 #extension opt -EFns=0
Recommend to use MidiYoke with twsyng instead. Timidity via setwindrv can be painful and it crashed FFVII on my end (using Windows 7 but I could've had the wrong options). Logarithmic volume control is greyed out when using midiyoke with timidity++'s twsyng which also allows independent volume levels in Windows vista-7 (having volume too loud for timidity's midi can cause the drums to sound distorted and/or too quiet).
Make sure timidity midi device type is configured to XG for FFVII XG playback (it should automatically fall back to general midi when you use general midi or awe midi). Change timidity midi device type to GM, for awe soundfont or general midi option.
You want to set the right timidity options in the default timidity.cfg your using (your using the one in the pat set as default. Other setups should use another (a main) timidity.cfg as default with all options in there and point to the pat set's timidity.cfg from there; this way you don't have to copy timidity settings to each and every timidity.cfg :)).
Gauss interpolation with max quality is set with the following:
#extension opt -EFresamp=g
#extension opt -a -N 34+1
twsyng has a gui and makes the settings much easier to handle and using it with midiyoke didn't cause crash issues like setwindrv did on my end (looks like you're using that; I could've had the wrong options). The way you're doing it requires the options be set in the default timidity.cfg through a text editor, and this can be a huge pain :evil: when tracking timidity conflicts-problems since there's no verbosity console. Yamaha XG option should be working btw.
Test the custom XG midi file I uploaded through timw32g. If it plays fine and you hear vocals (around 1:10 and 3:10) then you know the pat set is being used properly by timidity and you can apply the same options from there to twsyng (or the painful way through command line). Then you can use the yamaha xg option in FFVII config menu.
Try twsyng with midi yoke since the way your doing it now is more difficult; setwindrv crashed FFVII for me everytime (might be working on your end but it's still pain not knowing if timidity encounters an error).
Here's the settings you should use:
(http://i.imgur.com/v0OaGKA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DHycofk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GbgrOK0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7Pwk6hv.jpg)
If you still hear the drums but their faint (or distorted) try turning down timidity's volume (amp should be 50 but lower values may be better on your setup). Make sure noise shaping is set to 0 (anything higher than 3). Made a mistake and recommended the tube amplifier like noise shaping which is wrong! You need 0 or higher than 3 for noise shaping (tube amplifier like can be too loud and cause clipping-distortion which can be similar to what you're experiencing; if general midi works fine however then it doesn't seem like the noise shaping at fault).
Also, use the correct location for the "dir" lines in the pat set's timidity.cfg so timidity can find the drumsets and banks; it looks like you're already doing that.
What OS are you using?
I also agree and think midi doesn't suck. It saves lots of hard drive space and you can swap instrument sets to have totally different masters and quality to music. Also think using the native game midi is better than black hacks (black hacks are great btw :evil:) to use pre-recorded music files; it's amazing what they pulled off with the awe32 considering it only had 512kb of ram (then again it's amazing what they did with the playstation considering it had less ram for music I imagine). Plus we still have the yamaha XG midi to render the music like the playstation (it seems better IMO but it's also better being able to use different instrument sets; if we find high quality sources of the samples used in the playstation, we could make a patset-soundfont out of them. We can make a sega genesis patset-soundfont, SNES FFIV, :o) and you can master your own soundtrack with different soundfont-patset combinations. Actually encountered errors in the OST that are gone with the yamaha XG midi; don't know if it's ogg's fault but oh well.
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Added new demo's in FLAC quality so anyone interested can observe the patset better; FZero GX recording gives a good demo of the guitars and bass. If you watch how high the bitrate is during playback, you can observe how difficult it was for FLAC to compress using best compression; they could've been 48000khz too but if you decide to use the patset, you definately can go that high (game sounds will get resampled to 48000khz from lower sampling rates if your OS is set there, but game sounds might not matter as much to some folks, or not be noticeable; it's always best to avoid resampling unless you have a really high quality global resampler which is why I usually use 44100khz for midi and older games).
Also removed the ogg demo's of One Winged Angel (lb2.ogg and lb2_awe.ogg) since I used XG midi mode for the awe midi; thought Timidity++ automatically falls back to general midi but it doesn't so the taiko drum was wrong (doh)! The ogg quality used didn't do good to demonstrate instrument quality either. Beware that you have to explicitly tell timidity++ to use GM or XG since it won't decide automatically; this pat set is not GS compatible btw.
Should be new games with midi (check out the Nocturne FLAC demo above) and it saves a lot of space for other data. What's up with that?
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Well, I did get XG input working on my win7 64x machine and man it is sweet. I even tossed twsyng into my startup folder.
AMD960t quad-core @3.5Ghz
Couple screenshots of the installation points that I had trouble with:
(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/electrotoyou/TimidityPlayerCfg_zps89c2ea5a.png)
I guess the file listed in the box would be considered my "main" timidity.cfg?
So this "main" timidity.cfg points to the huge-pats folder, as well as to the subdirectories containing the pats themselves.
Here's the full code for my "main" timidity.cfg file:
dir "C:\timidity\huge_pats"
dir "C:\timidity\huge_pats\bank0"
dir "C:\timidity\huge_pats\drumset0"
source "cool_bank0.cfg"
source "cool_drumset0.cfg"
#extension opt -Od
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -U
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
#extension opt -o0
dir "C:\timidity\huge_pats\bank0"
dir "C:\timidity\huge_pats\drumset0"
source "cool_drumset0.cfg"
source "cool_bank0.cfg"
#extension opt -EFresamp=g
#extension opt -a -N 34+1This is the timidity.cfg inside the huge_pats folder (also the Gauss Interpolation extensions were added to this file)
(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/electrotoyou/ff7cfgmusic_zps9a3622f5.png)
This confused me. Finally sunk in setwindrv was what was making Timidity++ show up in ff7config.exe, and that I needed to choose "Out to MIDI Yoke: 1" instead
Does this all add up Vex? The midis sound absolutely fantastic now, and I'm not even using the gauss extensions, which I will try shortly. Thanks again for the detailed instructions!
Honestly I was intrigued by your samples, but real XG emulation from the proper input far far exceeded my expectations. I will be playing this way for a bit, I suspect.
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That's great you got it to work! Looks right; but you don't need
bank 0
drumset 0 in C:\timidity\huge_pats\timidity.cfg.
Assuming patset works on your end because you added source C:\timidity\huge_pats\timidity.cfg line to C:\timidity\musix\timidity.cfg (which looks to be the main timidity.cfg like you say judging from your first screenshot (comment (add "#" without quotes) to any other source lines if they exist)). That's all you need. Avoid setwindrv.exe. It makes things more difficult.
So this "main" timidity.cfg points to the timidity.cfg in the huge-pats folder, as well as to the directories containing the pats themselves
That's correct. You only need to add source locationofthepatsettimidity.cfg and comment any other source lines in the main C:\timidity\timidity.cfg.
Be sure twsyng preferences has "Default Midi Type" to "XG" for the Yamaha XG option; and make sure it's set to "GM" if you play with the awe32 soundfont option (FFVII config test doesn't play the awe soundfont but it works in game) or "General Midi".
Timidity++ could use an updated GUI IMO. Doesn't have to be so hard and complicated.
Regards
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It is a bit arcane and such but... some people will appreciate that, I'm sure. I, for one, like a good puzzle. But having someone guide you through it is fantastic sometimes. That said, with your permission I think I would like to put together a short tutorial for this when I get some time, perhaps around the time you update the patset (lol, shameless pushiness). I think the XG input with Timidity is a pretty revolutionary alternative to ff7music and I have basically been waiting for someone super patient to come along and fix a patset and share it for about 1 year. Not too bad a wait all told. I'd hug you but it would be awkward. :P
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Yeah! Make a tutorial (it'd help me). But make sure timidity settings are right (like in the first post).
Did find some better brass (have way better resolution, kinda scary too) and need to try some new piano's I found. Basically going to keep improving the pat set to make it as small as possible without losing quality (improve quality that is); some instruments are really huge and only sound okay (organs and bass guitars come to mind). Don't like that most of the pat-set uses mostly two to three soundfonts either (they're also popular).
You are also right that the midi's themselves could use improvement but I still need to make sure the pat-set isn't at fault; it seems Eidos (or whoever's responsible for FFVII PC) expected people to use a soundfont specifically built for FFVII, but then again maybe not. Just found out lb2.mid needs a custom per2 instead of the RidePing currently used but it conflicts with other songs so it doesn't make sense. lb2.mid uses a custom per2 (which is in FFVII's lb2.sf2 I think) in the default bank0, but if I change the RidePing to the custom per2 for lb2.mid then the chocobo and all other midi's will sound screwed up! Need to double check and see if lb2.mid and the chocobo song both really use the default bank 0 (custom instruments shouldn't go in bank 0). lb2.mid also has a bad sounding timpani with awe midi but not the xg midi; don't want to drag this post any longer with problems I keep finding :). Will fix whatever's busted when I have time (both the midi's and the patset).
Would be great if I could get a link to a group of midi's specially made for testing volume on each and every instrument, so I can get them exactly right (maybe that'll tell me if FFVII needs unique cfgs for its own midi's). Or perhaps a free program.
You really are too kind to me in your posts Template. Thank you so much kind sir! Glad you like the patset.
Regards
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This is how awesome Vexatious's HUGE PATS set with Timidity++ is:
- It's already top post in Audio Mods.
- I come in here just to bump it for being awesome even though it doesn't need bumping.
- There is a Gothic Choir in some of the music, where appropriate, and it's spooky. You'll hear it in the regular fight music if the enemies last long enough. It's downright epic. You'll catch yourself listening to the soundtrack again.
- This is a *little* like having native .ogg support for Aali's driver, but with a new, unfamiliar (but very high quality) soundtrack. There are no glitches where the music that should play doesn't, à la after playing Tifa's piano in the Kalm/Nebelheim flashback with ff7music.
- It is so complicated to install that it is like a new sidequest to the game. This is one of the reasons I think we should keep ff7 modding difficult. Builds character, culls the weak. (j/k) :-P
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Link to pat set was taken down earlier. Found problems with the xg mappings which is what caused lb2.mid to sound wrong. Closed hand cymbal was mapped to a ride ping; a ride ping does not sound like a closed hand cymbal and don't know how many other instruments have this type of problem. Wish whoever originally did the xg mappings was more careful about this stuff. Mapped the closed hand cymbal to a splash cymbal which sounds much more appropriate. Only did that since I can't locate any closed hand cymbal samples or sound fonts; general midi doesn't normally have that instrument. Need to double check the .mappings for other inconsistencies.
Will release update soon as a lot of stuff is fixed. Sound effects are all added for instance (know many would hate me for forgetting that); you can hear the dog in Cosmo canyon music and all the other stuff that I miss handled (thunder in over world theme after comet is visible, bubbles in mako reactor music, and so many other sound effects). Also fixes annoying tone heard during intro music when Cloud jumps off train (supposed to be a starship not something else).
Added way better brass, church organ and grand piano too (sounds just like the real thing). Only thing I don't like is the larger pat set size but sometimes that's unavoidable when improving quality.
There's also a glitch with timidity and the brush slap. When you play the shinra theme it sounds like crap, but if you fast forward briefly and let it continue it sounds really nice. Don't know if this happens on Windows but it really makes the sound bad. Also changed the claps to make it sound better (PlayStation version sounds like a violent slap instead of hand claps so I still think the claps could be better).
Also added loop control to all instruments in case they have loops. This makes a battle theme instrument behave appropriately and is like the playstation now; think Template referred to this as some kind of gothic theme which is actually in the PlayStation too (just a lot more quiet and barely audible; turned the pat set instrument down so it's more like that but it's still easier to hear).
Fixed string volumes so they don't have an out of tune sound.
Will upload updated pat set as soon as I get a chance.
As a note. The xg midi's have become more interesting. Some songs are arranged differently vs the PlayStation and I'm wondering if they represent what the original authors intended or if it's a mistake. The battle theme sounds like it's got more instruments vs the PlayStation. Also, Lb2.mid continues using closed hand cymbals in a part where the PlayStation and awe version change to a drum. I temporarily edited the xg midi to sound like the awe and PlayStation but this isn't what I intend as normal since I want to leave the xg tracks intact (except the vocals of course) so that was only for experimenting (people may prefer a more playstation like song however).
Fixed volume in xg lb2.mid vocals during second half (they got louder due to my lowsiness). Will upload the updated xg.lgp and lb2.mid when I get a chance.
Wish timidity was easier to handle for Windows users but as long as there's a pat set that doesn't suck (I take this back actually since it is a bunch of work), that's what I'll be happy with.
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(http://dl7.glitter-graphics.net/pub/221/221727rdmxtnanmf.gif) (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
Yay! Thanks so much! I don't know why everyone's not chiming in but I bet it's a lot more than just me loving this. I really am gonna make a tutorial for it, though, because I would like people to get to hear your patset. If they hear it, they will like it. I thought about mentioning the noisy tone in the opening music, but you seem like you have all this handled and don't need any suggestions. I also liked the patset just fine the way it was, and would have continued using it without any further updates. It's not that timidity is perfect, but it works, no glitches with music cutting out so far that I can find in the game, although I see a few messages from Aali's driver here and there.
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I'm paying attention to this thread as well. It's a lot to read and take in, and I'm honestly not entirely sure what it's all about. Perhaps a short synopsis?
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I'm paying attention to this thread as well. It's a lot to read and take in, and I'm honestly not entirely sure what it's all about. Perhaps a short synopsis?
Yeah those are my thoughts too lol. From what I can tell, this is a music option that utilizes and maximizes the capabilities of the MIDI format. (There was a period of time where I went around downloading all the various versions of FFVII and FFVIII MIDIs lol). I'm assuming its for people that enjoy the feeling that listening to MIDIs evokes, but this project takes that to the upper limits - Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I like it :)
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Link updated. Pat set grew to 175 mb but oh well; at least it's better and maybe everything fixed. Only thing left is tuning amps and make sure certain instruments don't screw up with loops. It also has GS drums and GS sound FX; if you want GS compatibility for other stuff it's there (you're on your own for that though since you have to add source gssfx.cfg under source xgmap.cfg in pat set's timidity.cfg). I'm pretty much done with this pat set now.
Removed links to the old xg lb.mid with vocals since I modified a better one. Changed the midi to use a splash cymbal (supposed to be a closed hand cymbal) to sound better since xg mappings were already fine (tried remapping a closed hand cymbal but it screwed up other midi's expecting a ride cymbal). 51 #d2 (127 49) is a closed hand cymbal and a ride cymbal at the same time. Either timidity has limited xg support and it's impossible to map two instruments to one program like the real hardware, or I don't know how to map the two different instruments to one program. If you have the old xg lb2.mid with vocals it still works but you'll hear the wrong instrument (ride ping instead of closed hand cymbal).
I'm assuming its for people that enjoy the feeling that listening to MIDIs evokes, but this project takes that to the upper limits - Please correct me if I'm wrong
Pretty much and it's mostly with XG midi since that's the toughest to exploit in software and it's much more advanced compared to GM (the awe midi is great but XG midi has so much more going on: reverb, dynamic range, lots of stereo panning, sound effects, etc).
The pat set was made to have high quality midi instruments that are a good match for games and having Final Fantasy VII support; makes Doom, dosbox and other stuff very high end and it's free as in beer (equivalent of a $3000 plus hardware module but it's better since you can make your own pat sets and tweak them; have to make sure they're free though lol).
Managed to add vocals to One Winged Angel XG midi on my own (ended up helping myself out and learning midi in the process) and it does work with the pat set (pat set works with awe midi too). Basically this allows what would be impossible on real XG hardware; hearing the vocals and using way higher quality instruments.
Should be better than the yamaha xg 50 software that comes bundled with FFVII (the wavetable data is 4 mb while this pat set is 175 mb; huge freakin' difference). It really comes down to personal preference however, and this pat set does need a fast single core cpu if it's an older one (at least 3 ghz pentium 4 more or less); and that's a huge difference compared to the yamaha xg 50 software requirements. Basically takes advantage of newer hardware and high end sound setups (some instruments go up to 48000 khz resolution). You can see the soundfonts used in the cfg's.
Sorry for taking up so much forum space. Was doing a lot on my own and perhaps I should keep my own logs somewhere; keeping my own records is something I'm not familiar with (feels like I need to become a detective or something).
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Here is my experience.
I am running Windows 7 ultimate X64
To install MidiYoke you need to run the installer in compatibility mode (XP SP2) otherwise the program complains that it cannot install.
MidiYoke works well for me as long as I am using it with 32 bits programs. For 64 bits programs no yoke in/out are shown.
I am also experimenting with Loopbe1 that seems to work for both 32 and 64 bits programs, but limited to 1 patch.
Hmm... I have no Synthesizer tab. :|
Oh, it's hidden in the TWSYNTH properties.
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For those of you who downloaded the updated huge pat set (huge_pat_set.zip) last night until now (Friday night to Saturday 4 PM pacific time); you'll notice the vocals are gone. Download huge_pat_set_fix.zip 750kb file here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/24xe29ibne24emu/huge_pat_set_fix.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/download/24xe29ibne24emu/huge_pat_set_fix.zip) unzip and drop it over your current huge_pats folder to have them back.
Updated demo's, xg.lgp and individual midi's. Recommend you use either xg_vocals_lb2-splashcymbal.lgp so One Winged Angel sounds the way it's intended with XG, or xg_vocals_lb2-drums.lgp if you want it to sound how the psx intended (has drums around 2:57).
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Hmm... I have no Synthesizer tab. :|
Oh, it's hidden in the TWSYNTH properties.
Can you explain where this is? I am apparently as blind as a bat and can't locate TWSYNTH properties.
EDIT: Thanks Template, that is what I was looking for :)
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OK guys I will finish up a tutorial this evening. I had a hard time setting this up myself. twsyng should appear in task manager while it is running. right click and properties I think.
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It also hidden. :-P
There it is:
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9443/or8b.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/or8b.jpg/)
Right click on it an select Preferenc.
If it's not on the task bar, you must run twsyng before.
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Whoever uses the pat-set would probably want to open cool_bank0.cfg and find "28 merlin_gold-B0/GuitarMutes keep=loop keep=env amp=100" and replace it with "28 merlin_gold-B0/GuitarMutes keep=loop keep=env amp=175"; this'll wake up mute guitar in lb1.mid "Birth of God". (Why do I keep running into lb1.mid and lb2.mid inconsistencies? ???)
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Thanks for all your hard work. Now that it's gone I miss your colorful first post...
I was having trouble getting it to work but I realized I needed to click "start synthesizer" from the task bar button thingy Kaldarasha pointed at last page...
(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/electrotoyou/15g6454656_zps776c69ca.gif)
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Media fire sucks. Don't know what to say. If you got huge_pat_set.zip along with the fix then consider yourself lucky. Sorry about all the problems on my end. Just make sure you use midi yoke.
Kind regards
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This got a little out of control with no version numbers, strikes, colored text, and now dead links :-P
I don't know which version of the huge pats I have now or I would make a mirror rq.
Was thinking that myself. Wasn't expecting pat set to be such a pain to maintain; also didn't expect to find it so addicting. You should be fine if you downloaded huge_pat_set.zip and the fix (the old one to be avoided was huge_pats.zip. Only the name of the zips are different). New link already has the fix included (was missing lb2/Woodblock.pat).
Also, don't expect an update soon but I'm going to work on the XG specific sounds. Think they can be smaller and sound better (the dog bark for instance). This will be easier to update too since you'd only have to replace the xg folder inside huge_pats; you won't have to redownload the entire pat set; kinda like the fix that was needed earlier. You could also keep the old xg folder if you decide it sounded better. This is kinda why I don't want to use version numbers (but I'm going to nonetheless).
Let me know of any problems while you're using it. I may not respond very fast but that's because of school.
Thanks for all your hard work. Now that it's gone I miss your colorful first post...
I screwed that up. Deleted everything when I edited. Hope it's on my Windows cache.
Also (yes this is another edit but have to remind myself :) ), you can use timidity to load whatever patsets and/or soundfonts you want while keeping only the XG portion of this pat_set underneath to maintain XG compatibility with everything; can also add XG compatibility with vocals for One Winged Angel too. I'll explain later but you do have to edit the main timidity.cfg by hand (wish there was a frontend to make combining stuff this way easier for folks).
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OK! So, about the update. I did a new installation of timidity because I just couldn't figure out what was wrong with mine. Works again, now and I'm pretty positive it's set up correctly, same as last time. Things are definitely very different with the updated patset. Much more "studio" and perfected in GM+AWE mode for me. I miss my Gothic choir in the XG/XG battle theme, it disappeared or got quiet or changed! I dunno, maybe I did something weird and forgot about it, but XG just isn't sounding right on my system, I'm wondering if my hardware is doing something funny or if I should try the original lgp instead of the splash cymbal one. Not like it's not working, it is, but some of the instruments are super quiet compared to others now. The midi that plays as the game opens has a super loud accented long note off what sounds like an electric piano or bass at one point. It was there for me before but now it's louder in the mix even. I wish I knew the names of the midis off the top of my head but I haven't even bothered to unpack the lgp files yet to look at them all. The entire sound side of FF7 I've pretty much avoided til recently. I used ff7music and dealt with it.
What sounds really good to me now is the GM(in timidity) + Awe(in ff7config). I never tried the GM+AWE because I hadn't read your notes carefully. Once I went from XG/AWE(which is wrong) to GM/AWE it came to life. It sounds original, but sweet. Is it possible you were working on that one a good deal and maybe it somehow threw the XG off some for me? The other thing is... The update runs way way way smoother. Again, new installation but now the music loads instant. Idk what happened there, my previous installation had a big delay (well half a second or a second). I followed your readme more closely this time, along with the screenshots in your posts, and now I get instant response from the midi on pretty much any setting. So yeah, I'm really really pleased. I want to start trying to learn how to customize the set if I run out of busy work type-mods to do. But honestly, the GM/AWE is really good so far, it's just I haven't got the time or patience to even play through the game lately much less to listen critically to the soundtrack. I suspect as I move past that ONE song "the battle theme" and the next 1 or 2 after it, the XG/XG sounds will impress me more. XG has more potential I would think.
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Do you need download mirrors for huge_pat_set.zip and huge_pat_set_fix.zip?
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Do you need download mirrors for huge_pat_set.zip and huge_pat_set_fix.zip?
I think the one on the front page includes the fix. Why, do you still have the Gothic choir!? I miss it! lol
I've verified the download on the front page does include the fix. Like I said, it's definitely an improvement, particularly in the AWE area so far, but my testing time is very limited.
MIDI is awesome tho, people will say, "oh, but you should be using .ogg". But concert and studio musicians use MIDI to make the recordings we turn into those .oggs. So it's not going anywhere on my system. I mean, you can get right down and customize the instruments for your own soundtrack this way, tell them louder or softer. ff7music allows you to choose songs, but not instruments...
One question for the OP whenever she has a moment:
You can use plw-vista-midi-mapper_0_93 or newer (search on google)
to set your default midi device in Windows Vista and 7 to the proper
midi yoke port. This helps problems such as SDL_Mixer based software
using Windows Vista and 7's default general midi synthesizer.
I did download and put this Control panel file in my System32 and Syswow64 or w/e folders. Can't find an actual control panel page for it though, I checked the registry entries it is supposed to affect and it just seems like I only have the Default MIDI device and MS Midi device available, and it has set both 32 and 64 bit keys to the default. But then Timidity works fine so what am I doing in the troubleshooting section of your readme anyway, right? This is probably something I just don't need because I don't have any external software or hardware midi inputs? I am gathering some soundcards or software suites might have needed this. Well it's good to try to answer your own question while writing it.
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Wanted to post a link for newer version of Timidity I found... kept having issues with the one I was using (from the big list) and wondered why I was having to manually enter codes for Gauss extensions. So! These are really the only two things you need to make this work (at least on Win7, my only test machine).
TiMidity-CVS060306_setup_en (http://sourceforge.net/projects/twsynth/files/latest/download?source=recommended) (Just install the default setup, don't add the Windows/NT driver it doesn't work, and the other two things are broken downloads)
Midi Yoke NT 1.75 (http://www.midiox.com/zip/MidiYokeSetup.msi)
After the inevitable struggle with the cfg files, i got the newer version working and it fixed the problems I was having with weird sound. Loudness/quietness issues disappeared, strange instruments sound normal now. I got my delay back on XG/XG, too which makes sense, it sounds like it's doing a lot of work, there's tons of stereo and delay effects and the added sound effects I was really not expecting but like... bubbles in the reactor for example. Very very very pro. No joke on the free $3,000 software suite.
The main timidity.cfg on a default install would be at C:\timidity\freepats\timidity.cfg and
would look like this:
dir "C:\timidity\huge_pats"
source C:\timidity\huge_pats\timidity.cfg
And you need to edit the timidity.cfg file in the huge_pats folder as well, but Vex has commented this to make it easy for you. As far as I can tell, the command line gauss extensions do not work in this version, and there is no control for it, so not sure where that went, but it sounds incredible now anyway. The only other thing I do not understand is why the MIDIs are restarting from beginning after every battle.
To be honest Vex, you should have added donation info. Maybe a lot of people will overlook this thread or just will be afraid of it. But this is better than ff7music if you aren't looking for dance music to replace the soundtrack. I'm hesitant to say how much better, because I don't want to start any kind of carrot-measure contest or anything. It's just awesome. But let me say this. You need a good CPU. I'm running a Phenom II 960t quad core @ 3.5Ghz which isn't exactly handling it as fast as I would like. Game performance is totally unaffected but there is a delay of sound output only in between changes in MIDI files (they are encoded into an lgp file) as the instruments are loaded. Mine's like... a fraction of a second really but it gets noticeable when you win a fight. You want it to be like seemless (which it is with general Midi). This is probably why Vex wanted to get the patset size down. I don't care, I want a better computer anyway... I am going to do a little testing with the process priority and synthesizer priority but I don't think that will help. Someone really into this could continue testing and/or making smaller size samples for use with ff7, but I do not have the mind for that.
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I miss my Gothic choir in the XG/XG battle theme
Open xg\gsdrums.cfg inside the huge_pats folder and make 49 gsdrum25/808crsh1 pan=8
look like
#49 gsdrum25/808crsh1 pan=8
To be honest Vex, you should have added donation info.
No kidding. Would like a web host too.
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I use Google Drive. It's free to 10Gigabytes and pretty fast. I am not positive but I don't think there is a bandwidth limit (like per day) at all. Kinda hard to imagine the Feds arresting the CEO and all your data going poof, too. I know how frustrating it is uploading big files.
Anyway, PM me a paypal email or something and I have a donation with your name on it. Considering your patset is designed to work for a lot of games you could potentially draw more enthusiast attention from a wider source by distributing your set in lots of little gamer communities and make a little extra money for books and synth equipment; I would throw that paypal email on your very good readme file you wrote and you might have a little money come in now and then, you never know. I only suggest this because of the complexity of what you've put together, the relative obscurity of the tools with which you did it, and the fact you said you were in school.
PS I finally got my Gothic Choir back, the fix you told me to put in + using the original sound effects fixed my problems... with bootleg on, or those sound effects, something I was doing was messing with all your pads. That choir is totally awesome even if it's not much like the original. It should have been.
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Don't like posting without updating, but I noticed the link requires premium membership. Going to finish a small update to the pat set (snare roll is broken) and version it (will also try to explain how to fix it if you already downloaded from the current huge_pats.zip). Will re-upload it with something else.
Haven't received any more support from Eric (one of Timidity's developers); he's probably busy. It seems impossible to have a ride-ping and closed hand cymbal on the same program at the moment. Haven't tried combining two wav's into a single pat but I kind of doubt that'll work. On the plus side, only one (maybe two) midi tracks suffers from this limitation but fortunately it can be worked around by editing the midi track.
As for the delay on each track change in game, it's actually intentional on the XG midi's. There might be a setting in Timidity++ that can avoid this, but otherwise the tracks might have to be edited to leave this delay out. This delay might've been put in for XG specific hardware compatibility but I can't be certain about that.
Really appreciate the support (just remember, I didn't do any actual sound development or recordings; I literally took other people's free soundfonts and samples to shape this pat set. But it is a lot of work and testing). Think it's a bummer not having a fully developed midi synthesizer (except for this pat-set and edited midi tracks) for FFVII after all these years (there's no excuse to re-release it without a good software synthesizer for modern systems; the original release didn't have that problem); this goes for other games too. (Why assume users will be fine with default Windows midi? Sounds like $moAuRe $).
Also couldn't find the old post in my browser cache. I'm upset from that and hope someone can give tips on recovering stuff from old cache (Internet Explorer and Firefox in Windows).
Many thanks to template for the link to a working Timidity and steps involved. Will try to do a new guide when I get a chance. BTW, I still can't stop looking at that penguin getting smacked; it's like they're getting along too well.
Regards
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If you want to download a file from speedy.sh without having premium account, you have to install their download manager(you don't need to install additional craps along with, though). It's one-time installation and not so slow, but I hate it...(I'm uninstalling it after downloading files)
**By the way, does anyone test it on TiMidity++ bw Edition (http://bluewing.usamimi.info/timidity/index.php?p=build&lang=ja&type=php)? I haven't installed the game for several years, so I cannot test it right now.
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Uploaded pat set with very minor update on speedy share. The snare roll wasn't heard and that's fixed.
Previous pat-set can be fixed by editing cool_drumset0.cfg and changing program 25. Should look like this: # #25 sn-roll keep=env amp=100 note=60
25 snarerol.pat note=60 keep=env amp=200
The cannon.mid track was affected by this (snare roll was mute).
Just remember this pat-set is meant to be used with the XG midi option in FFVII (and the custom XG.lgp with vocals). Don't think I can batch edit all the midi tracks to remove the 1 second silence at each track start. Final Fantasy VII XG midi also adds a second of silence at each track start. Sorry about that.
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Updated pat-set to 0.2.8. Had problem with xgmappings but was fixed (previous version had wrong mappings). Laughing was changed (old one is still included in case you decide to change it back). Forward slashes changed to backslashes so it actually loads in Windows (Doh! Still included instructions to change it to forward slashes for Linux users). Also included an extra yamaha XG sample set to play around with if anyone wants (grew 15 mb).
Links to lgp files re-added.
Once again these are really just various soundfont rips combined into one big pat set and I didn't record any samples. Credit goes to the original authors who recorded the samples. Of course, without Timidity we wouldn't have realtime midi with this quality and possiblity, so great credit goes go those authors as well.
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I am interested in anything MIDI and FF7 related so this seemed interesting to me.
The problem is, I don't understand much what this is. The OT speaks of files to download but it's very obscure. Plus the files are no longer available for download.
Can anyone shed some light?
Thanks!