Author Topic: Introducing Q-Gears (Read 15109 times)

halkun · « **on:** 2006-04-12 03:40:35 »

Hi all.

Well, I went a did it. I have a SourceForge account for a GPL Final Fantasy 7 Engine. The account is currently pending.

It's called Q-Gears. The "Q" means nothing. (Sorry Qhimm, I just think it's a cool letter. You can *say* it was named after you if you want ^_^)

Here is the approval form I submitted.

Quote

Project submission
Created: 2006-04-11 20:41
Last modified: 2006-04-11 22:16
Submitter: Halkun (halkun) [True Identity: (Secret-For-Now)]
Project type: An Open Source Software Project
UNIX name: q-gears

Descriptive name: Q-Gears : A free Final Fantasy 7 engine.

Public description:
Q-Gears is a clone of Squaresoft's Final Fantasy 7 game engine. It is designed to be cross-platfrom and run on modern operating systems such as Win32 and Linux.

Trove categorization:
License :: OSI-Approved Open Source :: GNU General Public License (GPL)
Intended Audience :: by End-User Class :: End Users/Desktop
Development Status :: 2 - Pre-Alpha
Topic :: Games/Entertainment :: Role-Playing
Programming Language :: C++
Operating System :: Grouping and Descriptive Categories :: All 32-bit MS Windows (95/98/NT/2000/XP)
Operating System :: Grouping and Descriptive Categories :: All POSIX (Linux/BSD/UNIX-like OSes)
User Interface :: Graphical :: OpenGL
User Interface :: Grouping and Descriptive Categories (UI) :: Project is a 3D engine
User Interface :: Toolkits/Libraries :: SDL

Registration description:
Q-Gears is an implementation of Squaresoft's Final Fantasy 7 engine. The end goal is to create a game interpreter that will accept data from either an original Playstation Final Fantasy 7 disk, or from the PC port of the game. This is much the same concept as other SourceForge hosted interpreters as ScummVM and FreeSCI. A design spec exists, and is located in PDF form at http://www.qhimm.com/gears.pdf It is also available in wiki form at http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7 The project is ran by a small set of international fans who have reversed engineered the original Final Fantasy 7 engine, taken steps to document much of it's functionality, and wish to write an implementation. The goal is to allow owners of the original game to enjoy Final Fantasy 7 on newer architectures. It also allows them the ability to take advantage of newer video/audio hardware. Lastly, it will also give the end user a choice of platforms to play their game on.

Current status: Pending Review

I'll let you know when we have access to CVS. Any questions?
-Halkun

FF7ExpNeg1 · « **Reply #1 on:** 2006-04-12 11:19:00 »

This is truly amazing! Good idea halkun!

L. Spiro · « **Reply #2 on:** 2006-04-12 13:07:11 »

Just curious.

How is it legal to take something that loads proprietary file formats owned by Square Enix and make it GNU?

In other words, forcing the code that decrypts and extracts their file formats to be open for public access.

L. Spiro

halkun · « **Reply #3 on:** 2006-04-12 20:39:09 »

Yes it is legal, as long as we don't distribute squaresoft's data.

Do a google for ScummVM, FreeSCI, and Sarian

Same idea as what we are doing.

L. Spiro · « **Reply #4 on:** 2006-04-13 05:06:33 »

But then my project of making Final Fantasy VII Online (under another name of course) would be legal.
Iâ€™m not distributing any of their data (which is what I was saying years ago when people told me it was illegal).

Itâ€™s exactly what I am already doing.
Making a new engine completely from scratch to load their proprietary data.

That is to say I am under the impression that you plan on making this engine somehow playable rather than just a neat screensaver.
After all, why else would you have support for your own custom models?

L. Spiro

Cyberman · « **Reply #5 on:** 2006-04-13 18:08:21 »

Hmmm I've nary seen the Q-gears project listed (whine whine)

Anyhow I created an account I'll just impatiently wait here

Cyb

Covarr · « **Reply #6 on:** 2006-04-15 19:55:18 »

It might be a while before we see even a playable version. Fortunately, we still have the official PC and PSX versions until then.

Midgar · « **Reply #7 on:** 2006-04-15 20:14:12 »

^Duh, why wouldn't we? :love:

It might present itself as a problem if it gets too popular. Remember Chrono Trigger Resurrection? And with the remake coming up they might view it as a threat and kill us off. However, its not remodeled or anything, so who knows?
For anyone who wants to see the (original?) thread, http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=3798&highlight=gears
http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=3772&highlight=gears

Cyberman what did you mean by created an account? Was there a thread that I missed that mentioned it?

halkun · « **Reply #8 on:** 2006-04-15 21:35:22 »

A reimplementation of the engine shoudn't land us in any hot water. The program will require square's data, and if you don't have that data, the program simply will not execute.

Period.

It's an engine clone. Read the first paragraph of ScummVM's homepage. It's exactly the same concept.

FreeSCI is an engine with the same idea as well. Actually this is really close to FF7's fieldsystem. I suggest you read the FreeSCI FAQ and that will answer a lot of questions.

Sarien is another project of the same type, also pretty much any Z-Machine is the same concept.

We are writing a Virtual machine These are not illigal, and are infact a tennant of Computer Science.

I hope that solves some drama here ^_^

Covarr · « **Reply #9 on:** 2006-04-15 21:59:40 »

Chrono Trigger Resurrection was free and didn't require the original game. Square didn't like this because it meant that they would no longer be able to sell the game since there would be a better, free version available.

This is different, because it only works if you have the game anyway; such a protection feature would have been impossible to implement in CTR. Thus, the biggest reason for their opposition was entirely removed.

halkun · « **Reply #10 on:** 2006-04-15 22:19:00 »

Q-gears was approved...

And I have run out of time to elaborate, I have to go be social now with some friends.

Here's the SourceForge project page
http://sourceforge.net/projects/q-gears/

Here's the webpage (currently empty)
http://q-gears.sourceforge.net/

I also have CVS avialiable. I really don't have time to get everyone rolling along with me. I'll be back tomarrow, post any questions you have.

#### Quick edit ####
You have to be a sourceforge memeber to join development. To be incuded in the project, PM me your UNIX name for sourceforge (You will get it when you sign up)

This is for deveopers only.
###########

I gotta go, I'm already late.

-halkun

Sad Jari · « **Reply #11 on:** 2006-04-15 22:48:16 »

Is it just me, or does "clone" have negative connotations?

Dunno, but something like "Q-Gears is an alternative engine for Squaresoft's Final Fantasy 7" sounds perhaps bit less... umm... something.

Just a thought.

Cyberman · « **Reply #12 on:** 2006-04-15 23:04:01 »

Ok dokey

Well hmmm it's your baby halkun

In any case I've not worked on the ISO system for a few days (lazy try it sometime!)
I'm going to do unit testing of the ISO object and then the ISO file object later.
I suppose I could after this work on the decoder for the PS1 varient's movie and audio data.

Cyb

Covarr · « **Reply #13 on:** 2006-04-15 23:08:16 »

I dunno, a lot of clones are better than the original. Especially engine clones like this. "Clone" only really has (and deserves) a negative connotation when it's used in reference to homemade mario games.

Sukaeto · « **Reply #14 on:** 2006-04-16 01:24:22 »

Quote from: Yami Pegasus

Chrono Trigger Resurrection was free and didn't require the original game. Square didn't like this because it meant that they would no longer be able to sell the game since there would be a better, free version available.

This is different, because it only works if you have the game anyway; such a protection feature would have been impossible to implement in CTR. Thus, the biggest reason for their opposition was entirely removed.

Chrono Trigger Resurrection was shut down because the project was USING Squaresoft Trademarks (the CT characters and story) to create a new game. It's not that Squaresoft didn't like it because there would be a "better, free version", it's because they had to protect their trademark.

In this case, nothing is being done WITH the actual content of the game. The only thing Halkun is doing is writing a new engine to MANIPULATE that content. He isn't changing it in anyway.

Halkun: Good luck with this! I'll be looking forward to seeing what becomes of it (maybe I'll even contribute a little.)

Otokoshi · « **Reply #15 on:** 2006-04-16 03:23:31 »

Quote from: halkun

A reimplementation of the engine shoudn't land us in any hot water. The program will require square's data, and if you don't have that data, the program simply will not execute.

I don't see any hot water bubbling over this either. That whole "Sith 2 Project" has been running for quite some time now. Of course LucasArts seems a lot friendlier to the mod community than other IP holders. Of course my knowlege does not include any credible legal training. Nonetheless, I wish all of you the best in the project. This really looks facinating.

Sith 2 Project

L. Spiro · « **Reply #16 on:** 2006-04-16 09:23:57 »

But this is exactly what I said years ago.

From the very start, my game was a clone that used the original gameâ€™s data or else it wouldnâ€™t run.
And that was understood by all, yet back then my project was â€œillegalâ€.
I even explained that my project was not illegal because I donâ€™t distribute any files of theirs, yet I was shot down with someone saying that â€œcopyingâ€ their data to RAM violates copyright.

So far the only real difference between our projects on a technical level is that yours is open-sourced, which in fact would make Square Enix a bit more unhappy, since the secrets to decoding their file formats is open for all to see.

So again, why is this legal but mine isnâ€™t?

L. Spiro

Sad Jari · « **Reply #17 on:** 2006-04-16 09:32:29 »

Yours was the multiplayer FF, right?

IMHO, this runs the original game on a new engine, yours would have made a new game using the characters, art and other stuff of Square's.

Just my two cents.

L. Spiro · « **Reply #18 on:** 2006-04-16 09:53:35 »

Online is an extension of the copied engine.
But here the line between technicalities is getting blurred.

This is why I specified that on a technical level the only difference is the open-sourcedness.

After all, Square Enix wouldnâ€™t be able to tell a judge they â€œfeelâ€ I have written a new game; itâ€™s ephemeral. To prove a case you need solid guidelines and clear definitions, and exact terms for when those boundaries are overstepped.

Incidentally, I can just as easily write my base engine with plug-in support and add online play as a plug-in feature.
Now see how blurry the line gets?
After all, the addition of online play would be inconsequentual to anything related to Final Fantasy.
The base engine is a copy that does nothing but load data and accept commands.
The online layer only interfaces with the base layer so much as sending commands; it has no idea what data is loaded and thus has no relationship with Final Fantasy or Square Enix in any way.

In the end, both would result in the same game, so if implementation is enough to shatter their arguments then they never had an argument in the first place.

It just so happens I am writing my online play as a plug-in feature, seperate from the base engine.
With that being said, I once again would like to know why my game is illegal and this isnâ€™t.

L. Spiro

rmco2003 · « **Reply #19 on:** 2006-04-16 18:53:32 »

So in the far future when the engine has progressed to a decent level of completion will it allow for custom content such as new models and graphics to be loaded instead of the original content? If so what file formats are planned for use by the engine?

halkun · « **Reply #20 on:** 2006-04-16 19:05:58 »

What you are doing iseems to be a FF version of UOIris

halkun · « **Reply #21 on:** 2006-04-16 19:11:16 »

Quote from: rmco2003

So in the far future when the engine has progressed to a decent level of completion will it allow for custom content such as new models and graphics to be loaded instead of the original content? If so what file formats are planned for use by the engine?

I'm thinking just adding on support for games like it. (Parasite eve, FF9, and PE2 with the damned "Tank walking" turned off) In the end the ability to add content will be cool, but I think in our own best intrest, make the data "non-mixable" with offical Square data. This is a good idea all around as Square's data is much more unforgiving and wierd than a standard Cali model, jpeg background, or what have you.

rmco2003 · « **Reply #22 on:** 2006-04-16 19:59:58 »

That seems sensible, now if only this project was extended to FFX and FFX-2... :p

Cyberman · « **Reply #23 on:** 2006-04-16 22:01:45 »

Quote from: rmco2003

That seems sensible, now if only this project was extended to FFX and FFX-2... :p

Err not likely until PS3 is at least a year out

Cyb

rmco2003 · « **Reply #24 on:** 2006-04-16 22:13:26 »

And that's if you can figure out what each of the 9800 unlabelled files extracted from the hidden data track are

Author Topic: Introducing Q-Gears (Read 15109 times)

Sad Jari

Sad Jari

rmco2003

rmco2003

rmco2003