Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994)  (Read 4837774 times)

Kryalis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3600 on: 2016-05-13 17:38:11 »
Problem with that model is that it's hi-res whereas the other character models aren't, making it stand out. I think it's slightly bigger in proportion as well. I'll test it and see.
Alright you have a point nvm. I guess I can just add it myself in my own files.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3601 on: 2016-05-13 19:02:45 »
If you do, then find all the SI files in the decompiled battle.lgp, copy-paste them out of there, rename them to RT, and then copy-paste them back in to overwrite the default RT files.

magictrufflez

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3602 on: 2016-05-14 03:50:24 »
Is there something specific I need to do to activate the item terminal in the Wall Market?  Is this a thing I can do right now?

The docs say Cid's Lvl 4 Limit is there, but that's not right because I got it elsewhere.

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3603 on: 2016-05-14 08:30:00 »
It's an error in the document; the new one was added late on but I didn't update the text doc.

Kryalis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3604 on: 2016-05-15 13:56:56 »
Hey man, first I just want to say that this mod is amazing and I really enjoyed it. If there is ever a new update to the New Threat mod then I have to address a couple errors that I came across whilst playing it, and an idea of what could be included.
First I would just like to ask that you please change Tseng's suit colour to black like the rest of the turks instead of red, because it just doesn't seem right and doesn't suit him along with them. Also I'm not sure if your aware of this but the "allies" that help you in battle can actually be attacked, I mean if you have an ability that can attack all enemies in the battle (take slash-all for example) it will also attack and harm your ally, so I think this should be looked over, I mean you could simply fix just by simply not using that attack but it is very useful and people are really going to want to use it.
Speaking of allies here is my idea, you know during the Wutai sidequest where you have you get your materia back from Yuffie? Well I was thinking at the point where you have to fight Rapps (the thing that Don summons to attack you), Reno and Rude will be allies in that fight and will help you, it seems like a good point to have allies and it'll probably be cool to have them fighting beside you.

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3605 on: 2016-05-15 17:08:26 »
Thank you so much!
I'm standing in the beginners hall right now and read all the stuff that awaits me
revisiting ff7 once again under this circumstances will be great I played ff8 requiem and I loved to develop battle strategies in this old game I like so much
this mod seems to be even better I'm really excited
Looking forward to new versions and will let you know if I find errors, bugs etc.
Spoiler: show
 Barret knocking down cloud after explaining materia was hilarious


Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3606 on: 2016-05-15 17:11:07 »
Hey man, first I just want to say that this mod is amazing and I really enjoyed it. If there is ever a new update to the New Threat mod then I have to address a couple errors that I came across whilst playing it, and an idea of what could be included.
First I would just like to ask that you please change Tseng's suit colour to black like the rest of the turks instead of red, because it just doesn't seem right and doesn't suit him along with them. Also I'm not sure if your aware of this but the "allies" that help you in battle can actually be attacked, I mean if you have an ability that can attack all enemies in the battle (take slash-all for example) it will also attack and harm your ally, so I think this should be looked over, I mean you could simply fix just by simply not using that attack but it is very useful and people are really going to want to use it.
Speaking of allies here is my idea, you know during the Wutai sidequest where you have you get your materia back from Yuffie? Well I was thinking at the point where you have to fight Rapps (the thing that Don summons to attack you), Reno and Rude will be allies in that fight and will help you, it seems like a good point to have allies and it'll probably be cool to have them fighting beside you.

Is that the field model for Tseng or the battle model? Either way, I'll get it sorted out.

For allies, the problem was that in order to get other enemies to attack them they needed to remain targetable. I think some can't be targeted (the Yuffie battle for instance) but for others they can be, like the Brass Dragon fight. Multi-target attacks are problematic there because they will hit them, but Tifa's Limits are the bigger issue as they randomly target and there's one battle with allies in Whirlwind Maze where she's a mandatory party member. I think I changed that fight so they couldn't be targeted though, not sure.

That's a good idea with Reno + Rude; the Rapps fight is quite hard to come up with a thing for because the player won't have a lot of Materia (if any) to make use of. Maybe I could plan a fight around that somehow.

Thank you so much!
I'm standing in the beginners hall right now and read all the stuff that awaits me
revisiting ff7 once again under this circumstances will be great I played ff8 requiem and I loved to develop battle strategies in this old game I like so much
this mod seems to be even better I'm really excited
Looking forward to new versions and will let you know if I find errors, bugs etc.

Cheers, bud; hope it pans out. Glad you found that thing too, it's an easter egg of sorts (people very rarely give the Materia tutorial to Barret because it's so long).

Skirmish

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3607 on: 2016-05-15 19:28:44 »
Is that the field model for Tseng or the battle model? Either way, I'll get it sorted out.

For allies, the problem was that in order to get other enemies to attack them they needed to remain targetable. I think some can't be targeted (the Yuffie battle for instance) but for others they can be, like the Brass Dragon fight. Multi-target attacks are problematic there because they will hit them, but Tifa's Limits are the bigger issue as they randomly target and there's one battle with allies in Whirlwind Maze where she's a mandatory party member. I think I changed that fight so they couldn't be targeted though, not sure.

That's a good idea with Reno + Rude; the Rapps fight is quite hard to come up with a thing for because the player won't have a lot of Materia (if any) to make use of. Maybe I could plan a fight around that somehow.

Cheers, bud; hope it pans out. Glad you found that thing too, it's an easter egg of sorts (people very rarely give the Materia tutorial to Barret because it's so long).
I can confirm that it's the field model that has the red colour and that Tifa's Limit Breaks will still target your NPC allies in the Whirlwind Maze area.

Murasame

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3608 on: 2016-05-15 19:49:42 »
Would making the allies for fights like the Brass Dragon count as a pincer attack fight stop all-attacks hitting them? I dunno if that's possible but just a thought. Good shout on the Turks as allies for Rapps though, that'd be cool.

Kilen

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3609 on: 2016-05-15 20:50:35 »
Heya!

I'm considering starting up the mod again (got to Junon in 1.35, then 1.4 came out).  Is the current IRO release relatively stable to play, or should I wait for an update? 

RPGLB just finished up, so I'm itching to get back to a classic game.

Thanks!

SirDrD

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3610 on: 2016-05-15 21:08:22 »
Thank you. This mod has put new life into this game. So far in progress I have just left Midgard, and fought the Turks in the cave. Some things I have liked:
- The distinction between the characters, does make each character feel different. What I disliked most about the base game was that all that seemed to matter was the material
- The weapons and armor. The choice of equipment really matters, more then any other game I have seen. The choice changes the use of the character. Did I want steel, titan, or mithral armlets? Should Tifa keep the weapon that does more damage, or the one that raises dexterity? Those were all hard choices.
-The special encounter where Jessie fights with you, was a nice easter egg.
- The special designed boss fights. The fight where you first get Red, and you fight a boss that starts off with extreme high defense but keeps getting weaker, combined with Red getting stronger through out the fight was genius. The fight in the elevators where one of the helicopters gets healed from lighting, was an unexpected challenge, especially since I gave Barret elemental and lightning materia in his weapon, Red's demi was ineffective against it, and Aeris was struggling to keep up with healing. I did win that fight on the first try, but I did need to adjust my strategy.
- That was a much better introduction to Yuffie.
- I noticed a lot of interesting dialog change. Did Barret always &%$#?%@ that much? or was that added in?
- Best moment of all:
            Tifa:  "Jessie said we need to hit these three switches at the exact same time."
                     (I pull the switch totally out of sync)
           Barret: "@?#@?#@ close enough."   
                       (and the door opens anyway.)  That was hilarious.   

------------------------
The main thing that I would like to see changed is the difference between the first row and the back row. It seems to me that the difference between the two rows is too much, and it seems like a better strategy is to almost always keep characters in the back row and spam magic. Even melee favoured characters like Tifa, seem to be able to better this way. She has enough MP to spam spells like lighting during long battles. I do keep her in the front row and fight with fists usually for role playing reasons, but it doesn't seem like the best strategy. I do think the back row defense should only be about a 25% bonus. And their needs to be more advantages to the front row, such as limit breaks suffering the same range penalty as default attacks. Or if the front row gave a bit of an ATB speed boost, then it would make even choosing whether to put casters in the front or the back a bit of a choice.  In general I think the game would  be more fun if the front row is usually the better choice, with the back row available for special occasions or builds. Even Aerius generally being considered better on the front row would be more fun. She can use spells most of the time, but then hitting someone with her stick is always a possible choice.  But right now, that front row is the scary line of doom.
And the basic spells might not use enough MP. Life drains MP fast, and  with extended cure spells I can run out. But with lighting and fire, I don't usually have to pay attention to MP at all.

Kryalis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3611 on: 2016-05-15 21:42:49 »
Is that the field model for Tseng or the battle model? Either way, I'll get it sorted out.

For allies, the problem was that in order to get other enemies to attack them they needed to remain targetable. I think some can't be targeted (the Yuffie battle for instance) but for others they can be, like the Brass Dragon fight. Multi-target attacks are problematic there because they will hit them, but Tifa's Limits are the bigger issue as they randomly target and there's one battle with allies in Whirlwind Maze where she's a mandatory party member. I think I changed that fight so they couldn't be targeted though, not sure.

That's a good idea with Reno + Rude; the Rapps fight is quite hard to come up with a thing for because the player won't have a lot of Materia (if any) to make use of. Maybe I could plan a fight around that somehow.

Alright cool man. But when you claimed to have changed the fight in Whirlwind Maze where you have the two soldier allies so they couldn't be targeted, your wrong on that one because I just went back onto that fight and they could still be attacked, so you may want to look into that (I can understand that this all may be hard to program and all that shizzle, but this is a real good mod and when people encounter problems that are going to annoy them, they are going to want it fixed so I'm just pointing this out for you).
And to answer your question, it's Tseng's field model, his battle model has a black suit though. Also while your at changing Tseng's suit colour, you might as well change Vincent's suit colour to black as well (and I mean him in those flashbacks you receive when he goes to speak to Lucrecia).
« Last Edit: 2016-05-15 22:21:35 by Kryalis »

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3612 on: 2016-05-15 23:05:25 »
Heya!

I'm considering starting up the mod again (got to Junon in 1.35, then 1.4 came out).  Is the current IRO release relatively stable to play, or should I wait for an update? 

RPGLB just finished up, so I'm itching to get back to a classic game.

Thanks!

It's been pretty stable so far; no bug reports for a while. I think the IRO available from here is slightly more up to date than the main installer currently is.

Thank you. This mod has put new life into this game. So far in progress I have just left Midgard, and fought the Turks in the cave. Some things I have liked:
- The distinction between the characters, does make each character feel different. What I disliked most about the base game was that all that seemed to matter was the material
- The weapons and armor. The choice of equipment really matters, more then any other game I have seen. The choice changes the use of the character. Did I want steel, titan, or mithral armlets? Should Tifa keep the weapon that does more damage, or the one that raises dexterity? Those were all hard choices.
-The special encounter where Jessie fights with you, was a nice easter egg.
- The special designed boss fights. The fight where you first get Red, and you fight a boss that starts off with extreme high defense but keeps getting weaker, combined with Red getting stronger through out the fight was genius. The fight in the elevators where one of the helicopters gets healed from lighting, was an unexpected challenge, especially since I gave Barret elemental and lightning materia in his weapon, Red's demi was ineffective against it, and Aeris was struggling to keep up with healing. I did win that fight on the first try, but I did need to adjust my strategy.
- That was a much better introduction to Yuffie.
- I noticed a lot of interesting dialog change. Did Barret always &%$#?%@ that much? or was that added in?
- Best moment of all:
            Tifa:  "Jessie said we need to hit these three switches at the exact same time."
                     (I pull the switch totally out of sync)
           Barret: "@?#@?#@ close enough."   
                       (and the door opens anyway.)  That was hilarious.   

------------------------
The main thing that I would like to see changed is the difference between the first row and the back row. It seems to me that the difference between the two rows is too much, and it seems like a better strategy is to almost always keep characters in the back row and spam magic. Even melee favoured characters like Tifa, seem to be able to better this way. She has enough MP to spam spells like lighting during long battles. I do keep her in the front row and fight with fists usually for role playing reasons, but it doesn't seem like the best strategy. I do think the back row defense should only be about a 25% bonus. And their needs to be more advantages to the front row, such as limit breaks suffering the same range penalty as default attacks. Or if the front row gave a bit of an ATB speed boost, then it would make even choosing whether to put casters in the front or the back a bit of a choice.  In general I think the game would  be more fun if the front row is usually the better choice, with the back row available for special occasions or builds. Even Aerius generally being considered better on the front row would be more fun. She can use spells most of the time, but then hitting someone with her stick is always a possible choice.  But right now, that front row is the scary line of doom.
And the basic spells might not use enough MP. Life drains MP fast, and  with extended cure spells I can run out. But with lighting and fire, I don't usually have to pay attention to MP at all.

Back Row is a problem because it's a %-based decrease to incoming physical damage that doesn't have a drawback for anyone using either a long-range weapon or spells. As damage numbers scale up, the benefit of it increases so by late-game it's very tough to balance around.

But there should be a way to change it in the .exe, along with the other things you mentioned (and more). Limit Breaks can be given a range flag, and enemies can have their use of long-range flags re-enabled for projectile attacks. Adjusting the modifiers on buffs/debuffs isn't something I've done before, but I'll be looking to change them if possible. 30% or thereabouts would be better for Barrier, maybe 15% for Row, and 5-10% for Sadness so that it's more of a negative status than the go-to for damage mitigation.

Alright cool man. But when you claimed to have changed the fight in Whirlwind Maze where you have the two soldier allies so they couldn't be targeted, your wrong on that one because I just went back onto that fight and they could still be attacked, so you may want to look into that (I can understand that this all may be hard to program and all that shizzle, but this is a real good mod and when people encounter problems that are going to annoy them, they are going to want it fixed so I'm just pointing this out for you).
And to answer your question, it's Tseng's field model, his battle model has a black suit though. Also while your at changing Tseng's suit colour, you might as well change Vincent's suit colour to black as well (and I mean him in those flashbacks you receive when he goes to speak to Lucrecia).

I thought I'd changed it, but I guess not. Maybe it was Cell Smash I disabled.

magictrufflez

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3613 on: 2016-05-15 23:31:54 »
SC--some things I've run across that you might want to take a look at at some point:

--In the "New Threats" menu endgame, the ""Midgar" option talks about Rocket Town.  I think this might still be left over from Cids lvl 4 Limit being in the vending machine.

--In savepoints in the final dungeon, there's this weird thing that happens, where if you toggle random encounters, it doesn't put the middle box back in the extended save menu.  Everything works fine, but for some reason this small graphical glitch does exist in at least the Hatchery savepoint (I think it does the same thing for the save menu on the other 2 paths as well).

--The Goldberry battle....sweet baby jesus.  That was really, really ridiculous, but I eventually power-gamed them out of existence (Quadra Magic Bahamut Zero and Neo Bahamut from a 250 Mag hero plus 1 use of Catastrophe).  However, one really weird thing that kept happening was that every time they would use the Golden Grudge that inflicts small, my character would grow gigantic first before being "shrunk" down to what was then normal size.  It still had the exact same effect as intended, but it was a really confusing animation.

--I may have misread what you said about Master Materias, but are they still supposed to be available from materia blending?  As of right now, I can get infinite Master Commands, and I have blended 1 Master Magic.  I was under the impression that huge materia no longer did that, but was I wrong?

--Quadra Magic...officially kind of breaks the Summon Materia balance I think.  I should have checked whether Summons can be "Quadra'ed" multiple times, but I can confirm you get at least 1 Quadra Summon, and then you still have a singular Summon afterwards as well.  I'm not sure if this was meant to be left in, but it does change the Summoning Dynamic a bit.  I personally don't mind this being in there, but I just wanted to point it out if you weren't aware of it yet.


I think there were some other small things too I forgot about, but if I run across them again or remember them, I'll let you know!

Bowser9

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3614 on: 2016-05-16 01:23:45 »
@SrDrD

Decreasing the benefits of back row wouldn't do much for variety. People will still put the characters with low HP in the back, even if it's a 15% damage reduction to physical attacks, because they will get nuked by physical attackers. People will still have to rely on full cover + healer set up to balance out the nerfs unless they know every battle beforehand. You'd still put Tifa in the back row anyway, because 15% reduction is still better than 0%, and you're content with even Tifa's magic damage output in that situation.

Nothing would change if you nerfed the back row.

If you want to shake up the risk reward of strategical decisions, the best options are to use characters that actually interact with their row in some way, such as Barret. Conversely, if you want a reason to keep all mages in the front row as a strategical choice, you could ask Sega Chief to do something actually crazy, like doubling all MP cost in the back row, or halving restoratives in the back row. Then you're forced to be perfect in your decision making. These are just examples, but surely you can see why just nerfing back row damage mitigation changes nothing about how the game's mechanics intend for you to protect your squishies.
« Last Edit: 2016-05-16 01:28:41 by Bowser9 »

magictrufflez

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3615 on: 2016-05-16 01:43:58 »
As someone who's pretty much at the end of the mod, I personally think the row mechanics are pretty balanced throughout the game.  Some encounters are harder than others with/without using it, and there are some situations where you obviously always take advantage (Yuffie, Aeris, Vincent, some encounters like Iron Men).  Hell, I don't go anywhere without applying sadness to my whole party too, just to make sure I'm prepped for any surprises.

Bowser is totally right about nerfing the damage reduction to 25% though--there are characters that are naturally going to get completely wrecked with only that kind of a reduction, especially endgame.  Even with my whole level 99 party in the back row and sadness applied, Iron Men can 1-shot casters before barrier goes up, and can easily 2-shot even my heavy hitters.

The beginning section I believe was balanced the way it is because you don't have access to stat gains yet--don't worry, it gets rougher soon, and you'll be praising the sun for that back row.

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3616 on: 2016-05-16 02:25:27 »
I think I must be the only one who actually likes trying to time the button press in the No. 5 reactor :(

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3617 on: 2016-05-16 02:26:31 »
I just got to Temple of the Ancients. At the clock hall. I went to door #VIII, got the megalixer in the chest, then got hit with a fight with 8eye's. They do this light attack which hits me like almost 1000hp each time, and that's their main move!  Is this a glitch or are they supposed to be hard as hell?  I get whacked every time. If so any tips to beat them?

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3618 on: 2016-05-16 02:34:01 »
SC--some things I've run across that you might want to take a look at at some point:

--In the "New Threats" menu endgame, the ""Midgar" option talks about Rocket Town.  I think this might still be left over from Cids lvl 4 Limit being in the vending machine.

--In savepoints in the final dungeon, there's this weird thing that happens, where if you toggle random encounters, it doesn't put the middle box back in the extended save menu.  Everything works fine, but for some reason this small graphical glitch does exist in at least the Hatchery savepoint (I think it does the same thing for the save menu on the other 2 paths as well).

--The Goldberry battle....sweet baby jesus.  That was really, really ridiculous, but I eventually power-gamed them out of existence (Quadra Magic Bahamut Zero and Neo Bahamut from a 250 Mag hero plus 1 use of Catastrophe).  However, one really weird thing that kept happening was that every time they would use the Golden Grudge that inflicts small, my character would grow gigantic first before being "shrunk" down to what was then normal size.  It still had the exact same effect as intended, but it was a really confusing animation.

--I may have misread what you said about Master Materias, but are they still supposed to be available from materia blending?  As of right now, I can get infinite Master Commands, and I have blended 1 Master Magic.  I was under the impression that huge materia no longer did that, but was I wrong?

--Quadra Magic...officially kind of breaks the Summon Materia balance I think.  I should have checked whether Summons can be "Quadra'ed" multiple times, but I can confirm you get at least 1 Quadra Summon, and then you still have a singular Summon afterwards as well.  I'm not sure if this was meant to be left in, but it does change the Summoning Dynamic a bit.  I personally don't mind this being in there, but I just wanted to point it out if you weren't aware of it yet.


I think there were some other small things too I forgot about, but if I run across them again or remember them, I'll let you know!

I'll repair those save points in the crater + Highwind text. Master Materia is not available through fusion, going to do something else with that.

I was informed in a stream recently that Quadra raises the summon limit; a fix may not be possible without the .EXE patch, but we'll see. I haven't explored possibilities yet though I suspect it's hard-coded which Materias can be combined with Quadra.

I just got to Temple of the Ancients. At the clock hall. I went to door #VIII, got the megalixer in the chest, then got hit with a fight with 8eye's. They do this light attack which hits me like almost 1000hp each time, and that's their main move!  Is this a glitch or are they supposed to be hard as hell?  I get whacked every time. If so any tips to beat them?

They have very high defences but a Summon will cut through it, particularly Leviathan (they're weak to water, but halve other elements). If Leviathan isn't an option then use Aeris' Seal Evil Limit to open the fight and inflict Stop; then you can wear them down with Gravity to kill them.

Yapt

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3619 on: 2016-05-16 02:36:05 »
Wheres the ribbon gone? I just morphed a master tonberry and got a starlight phone. Is there any up to date documentation?
« Last Edit: 2016-05-16 03:09:55 by Yapt »

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3620 on: 2016-05-16 05:52:28 »
@SrDrD

Decreasing the benefits of back row wouldn't do much for variety. People will still put the characters with low HP in the back, even if it's a 15% damage reduction to physical attacks, because they will get nuked by physical attackers.

It is okay if people put just the low HP characters in the back. But the problem is that it seems like the best strategy to keep all the characters in the back. Tifa was modded with the highest strength in the game, but it feels like the best way to use her is to invest in magic stats and equipment for her, and have her spam magic in the back row. The front row is just too deadly compared to the back. And it is just more fun if she is played like the martial artist she is supposed to be.

Anyway, I think the best way to handle things will probably also be the most complicated to implement. The purpose of the back row was probably meant so the tougher fighters can protect the weaker mages, which are kept at the back. And this is needed so that all characters should not need high vitality and Hp. But that should only work if the mages are in fact behind the fighters.  If the fighters move to the back row too, that means from a tactical/technical standpoint that the back row is really now the front lines.And it would no longer make sense that the mage gets damage reduction. So ideally I would say:
- If two characters are in the front row, and one is in the back, the one in the back gets 50% damage reduction.
- If one is in the front, the two characters in the back get 25% reduction.
- If all three are in the front, then all three can be considered to be in an aggressive formation, and it would be fun if they had some sort of small physical attack and magical attack damage bonuses.Or maybe a slightly faster ATB growth for some kickass action.
- If all three are in the back, it can be considered a defensive formation,  without the benefit of a front row to protect them. And they should get both the benefits, and the penalties of what makes sense for a defensive formation. Something like a small defense bonus, but also a small ATB penalty would make sense.

This is probably too complicated too mod, but it would allow  for the strategic importance of tough front line characters, more  squishy back row characters, and a variety of options and builds. And a long range material could probably get modded back in.


GeoFlare

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3621 on: 2016-05-16 08:59:13 »
Honestly speaking I think the back row should be left as is. This mod is plenty difficult as it is and I feel like nuking the benefits of the back row would hamper the actual mod. I have no issue leaving Tifa in the front row dealing damage since we got the nice hp boost in this version. Typically my party consists of Tifa, Cloud, and Aerith with only Tifa dealing physical damage while Aerith and Cloud dish out some nice magical damage/support. I do actually give Tifa fullcure, demi, and maybe barrier from time to time as well. Even in the back row Aerith can still be one shoted by most endgame enemies even with barrier. I mean if you really don't like the backrow simply don't use it. I like Tifa or my main physical damage dealer (Cid as a nice sub or even Barret from time to time) to soak up damage to get their limits faster without having to resort to using fury for the nasty hit reduction. I feel like it gives the game a nice sense of aesthetic since frontline fighters receive the brunt of enemy attacks.   

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3622 on: 2016-05-16 10:27:18 »
Wheres the ribbon gone? I just morphed a master tonberry and got a starlight phone. Is there any up to date documentation?

I made a mistake with the master tonberries; there are three entries for that enemy, and only one has the updated steal/drop/morph list. If you go to the last screen of the Left-Down path, the Master Tonberry that appears there morphs into a Ribbon.

It is okay if people put just the low HP characters in the back. But the problem is that it seems like the best strategy to keep all the characters in the back. Tifa was modded with the highest strength in the game, but it feels like the best way to use her is to invest in magic stats and equipment for her, and have her spam magic in the back row. The front row is just too deadly compared to the back. And it is just more fun if she is played like the martial artist she is supposed to be.

Anyway, I think the best way to handle things will probably also be the most complicated to implement. The purpose of the back row was probably meant so the tougher fighters can protect the weaker mages, which are kept at the back. And this is needed so that all characters should not need high vitality and Hp. But that should only work if the mages are in fact behind the fighters.  If the fighters move to the back row too, that means from a tactical/technical standpoint that the back row is really now the front lines.And it would no longer make sense that the mage gets damage reduction. So ideally I would say:
- If two characters are in the front row, and one is in the back, the one in the back gets 50% damage reduction.
- If one is in the front, the two characters in the back get 25% reduction.
- If all three are in the front, then all three can be considered to be in an aggressive formation, and it would be fun if they had some sort of small physical attack and magical attack damage bonuses.Or maybe a slightly faster ATB growth for some kickass action.
- If all three are in the back, it can be considered a defensive formation,  without the benefit of a front row to protect them. And they should get both the benefits, and the penalties of what makes sense for a defensive formation. Something like a small defense bonus, but also a small ATB penalty would make sense.

This is probably too complicated too mod, but it would allow  for the strategic importance of tough front line characters, more  squishy back row characters, and a variety of options and builds. And a long range material could probably get modded back in.

I do like the idea of the number of people in each row determining the modifiers, but like you say it'll be tricky to mod correctly. AI can implement an effect of some kind, though not the actual %-damage reduction and I'm already out of space in the kernel.

seijuro

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3623 on: 2016-05-17 16:35:34 »
They have very high defences but a Summon will cut through it, particularly Leviathan (they're weak to water, but halve other elements). If Leviathan isn't an option then use Aeris' Seal Evil Limit to open the fight and inflict Stop; then you can wear them down with Gravity to kill them.

Thanks man, that did the trick! I just beat Brass Dragon and then I fought some Black Commando's and stole a Crystal Sword, Organics and also a Diamond Bangle, is that normal? Or did I get lucky?

Tavarcio

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3624 on: 2016-05-17 18:57:04 »
I've been getting a crash when I go into a battle in the scaffold leading up to Hojo, I'm not sure why tho.