Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]  (Read 3021439 times)

Covarr

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #500 on: 2014-08-19 22:43:49 »
My main issue with 'bout in this particular example is a visual one. You end up putting two apostrophes right next to each other, and while it sounds natural, it looks off.

Dubular

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #501 on: 2014-08-20 03:47:25 »
I'm curious as to why the phrase "Believe-you-me" was removed. Was it not in the Japanese version at all? Because that is a saying I hear once in awhile, and I live in a very rural area.

obesebear

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #502 on: 2014-08-20 03:54:38 »
Y'all do whatever you think is right.  You're going to have more consistent characters with only 1 or 2 people fixing dialogue.

Covarr

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #503 on: 2014-08-20 04:34:08 »
I'm curious as to why the phrase "Believe-you-me" was removed. Was it not in the Japanese version at all?
You hit the nail on the head there. Quite a bit of the 1997 English text was simply made up, and color was added where it wasn't needed as though the translator didn't trust the original writers to know what they were doing with their characters.

Something I was talking about with DLPB the other day, the dialogue in Advent Children is actually surprisingly true to the characters in the game, at least in terms of speech mannerisms and quirks. Stupid though the story may be, you can tell the dialogue was at least written by the same person who wrote the dialogue for the game by that. The same goes for Crisis Core, and not Dirge of Cerberus (which is prolly why Dirge's dialogue feels kinda out of place). The thing is, that consistency also acts a pretty clear indicator that speech mannerisms in FF7 were pretty much across the board intentional in the Japanese version, which makes it all the more important that they are translated properly rather than replaced or embellished.

It's one thing to add this stuff to a lacking script (see: Ted Woolsey writing Kefka into a character with actual personality instead of the empty husk he was in Japanese), but when your source material already has this much heart and flavor to it, trying to change it is pointless and leads to a worse end product.

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #504 on: 2014-08-20 08:35:31 »
believe-you-me is not something I would expect Cid to say in that situation. And yeah, it's just been added.

Also, I'd say adding material to something to the extent Ted did is not what a localizer is supposed to do.  I remember hearing Sakaguchi was not best pleased with him.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-20 09:10:25 by DLPB »

knightsoftheround

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #505 on: 2014-08-20 16:21:26 »
believe-you-me is not something I would expect Cid to say in that situation. And yeah, it's just been added.

Also, I'd say adding material to something to the extent Ted did is not what a localizer is supposed to do.  I remember hearing Sakaguchi was not best pleased with him.

So wait, the Kefka everyone freaks out about (at least on the personality front) and uses as proof VI rocked while VII sucked in debates/flame wars about the two games is entirely an English invention??

On the Advent Children front, I was totally thinking the other day about how they seem so much more like this project's depictions of the characters than the original PSX game... XD Cid and Vincent especially. XD
« Last Edit: 2014-08-20 16:23:20 by mugenginga »

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #506 on: 2014-08-20 18:52:12 »
To be fair to Ted, it wasn't all his fault.  If I recall there was a silly limit to text and all sorts of issues.

But it wasn't his game or story.  Everyone seems to love the line "Son of a submariner"  but kefka would not say that.  It's simply out of character and not part of his speech pattern.  Can you imagine if Ted had decided to do that to Sephiroth? 

"Yo duuuuuuuude!"

http://legendsoflocalization.com/son-of-a-submariner-kefkas-famous-line-in-detail/

There is no justification for changing that.  He exceeded his authority.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-20 18:55:43 by DLPB »

Covarr

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #507 on: 2014-08-20 18:56:21 »
The original Kefka was pretty bland. Really all the dialogue in FF6 was pretty bland. The only reason people remember that game fondly is because of the liberties he took. It was enough that Square later retconned their own version and made many of his changes canon even in Japan.

Even so, it's really debatable whether he should've made these changes. With FF7, there is no debate. The characters are strong, unique, and well-written to begin with, so trying to add personality to them is both redundant and disrespectful to the characterization that was already so carefully defined.

edit: Regarding "Son of a submariner", that was a bad change in general. But for the most part, Woolsey's reinterpretation of the character was an improvement insofar as the character wasn't completely wooden, whether or not he had the authority to make such a change. The only reason I even brought FF6 up was as a comparison to FF7, which didn't even remotely need changes in order to have flavorful dialogue.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-20 18:58:16 by Covarr »

knightsoftheround

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #508 on: 2014-08-20 19:16:03 »
Never been a fan of Woolsey. I kind of have a sore spot in regards to inaccurate translations and localizations.

That being said, these are some fascinating pieces of useless trivia I'm happy to add to my collection!

And now I'll go back to staying on topic here, haha. XD

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #509 on: 2014-08-21 00:04:58 »
Ok, so now up to Undersea Mako Reactor. 

Shouldn't be too long before this is done.  But then I have a few questions for Luksy and what not.  There's one entire part here at Midhir, where I think Cloud is talking to Tifa, not about her.

knightsoftheround

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #510 on: 2014-08-22 00:04:51 »
I was wondering where in the installed files the movie files are so I can replace them with the retranslated FMVs?

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #511 on: 2014-08-22 08:07:20 »
Go into main ff7 folder, and you can't miss them.  Folder is movies.  Of course, you need to sort it all out so that your movies are on the HD and not being read from disc.
------


I am now up to the rocket mission. 
« Last Edit: 2014-08-22 08:08:55 by DLPB »

Green_goblin

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #512 on: 2014-08-22 08:15:25 »
Are you  doing a complete walkthrough? There are some points of the game where you can see different scenarios. For example if you win the submarine mini game you get the grey submarine. But then you can lose the mini game and then you will see this map with its own dialogues:



Also you can go back to Junon in order to get the red submarine and then you will see this maps with its own dialogues:



So my question is, are you doing a complete walk through, are you covering all these things?

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #513 on: 2014-08-22 08:25:56 »
All dialogue has been relocalized.  You can't relocalize a game if you are missing bits out.

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14914.msg209227#msg209227

I have been through 600+ maps 5 times.  And this is the second and final walkthrough, which is needed to make sure it flows right mainly.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-22 08:28:31 by DLPB »

Green_goblin

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #514 on: 2014-08-22 08:28:31 »
All dialogue has been relocalized.  You can't relocalize a game if you are missing bits out.

I know I know, but you should check how it looks like in-game, just to avoid bugs, problems with the window position etc.

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #515 on: 2014-08-22 08:29:12 »
I am doing...  a full playthrough means I have to do every single scene and sidequest.  That's why it takes so long.

Green_goblin

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #516 on: 2014-08-22 08:36:19 »
I am doing...  a full playthrough means I have to do every single scene and sidequest.  That's why it takes so long.

Good to hear. I just wanted to make sure that you were doing it right, because those submarine maps are usually forgotten and ignored by many players. Have you found many bugs/errors so far?

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #517 on: 2014-08-22 08:38:13 »
Thousands of errors since the start of the project. And this final playthrough has had around 50 minor issues, 2 medium, and 1 possibly major.

knightsoftheround

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #518 on: 2014-08-22 18:24:38 »
Go into main ff7 folder, and you can't miss them.  Folder is movies.  Of course, you need to sort it all out so that your movies are on the HD and not being read from disc.
------


I am now up to the rocket mission.

I didn't even think of that issue I'll ask around about how to do that on the forums. Thanks!
« Last Edit: 2014-08-22 18:56:46 by mugenginga »

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #519 on: 2014-08-23 22:27:19 »
Retranslation is now done.  Next step is to get a few issues cleared with Luksy and Covarr, and myself.

The second and final play-through created around 80 questions.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-23 23:51:51 by DLPB »

knightsoftheround

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #520 on: 2014-08-24 01:00:04 »
Retranslation is now done.  Next step is to get a few issues cleared with Luksy and Covarr, and myself.

The second and final play-through created around 80 questions.

Sweeeet. :D

Vir

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #521 on: 2014-08-24 04:41:58 »
Congratulations and encouragements some more!

DLPB_

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #522 on: 2014-08-24 14:46:26 »
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnKl04es5qkqdGdUWHktN09WRXNheHJ4NFhrakl6Vnc&usp=drive_web#gid=10

"Final questions for Luksy"

and

"Check 5"

Are the last of the questions.  When these are done, the entire project comes to a close, except if there are any user corrections.

edit...  "all can view" was not set/.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-24 14:58:40 by DLPB »

Faendra

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #523 on: 2014-08-24 16:22:11 »
Hi DLPB,
I don't know if it's misplaced to do that and i'm sorry, but can you take a look to my problem please ?
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15492.0
Thanks !

Great job by the way ^^

Covarr

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Re: [FF7PC-98] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R01)
« Reply #524 on: 2014-08-24 20:18:04 »
I've just finished going through Check 5.



Since DLBP's gone and made the spreadsheet public anyway, I think I'll use this opportunity to give a small behind-the-scenes glimpse at what sort of work goes into this project. Making a great localization really is a lot more in-depth than just translating the entire script line-by-line... not that doing that is such an easy task in itself, Luksy put a lot of work into the initial translation that Beacause uses as a starting point. But even after that, a good deal more work goes into polishing it, into making it something that everyone who worked on can be proud of.

The first two tabs, "Questions for Luksy" and "Final questions for Luksy" are pretty much what it sounds like. As Luksy actually knows Japanese, while DLPB and I do not (though we do have limited understanding of some of its quirks and know what to look out for), this is to make sure the retranslation is as accurate as possible. DLPB has put a ton of work into rewriting dialogue to be more natural based on Luksy's original literal translations, but it's important that this rewriting doesn't actually harm the meaning of any given line.

"Covarr's Grammar Check" through "Check 4" are my comments on the raw script after DLPB's rewrites. I am typically on the lookout for regional slang/expressions, correct use of spelling, grammar, and punctuation, anything that doesn't flow naturally, anything I don't understand, etc. These were done after being run through DLPB's text replacer (the same one used in installer) to change UK spelling to US, accurate names to canon names, etc. to make sure that no strings of text were missed in the replacer. There were a few cases where the text replacer was overzealous and actually created new misspellings, and having someone check pre-replaced US/canon text was important in preventing these errors in the final version.

"Check 5" follows a different format, with DLPB asking his own questions and me giving responses. As with the first four, the emphasis is on natural English and correct grammar, as accuracy-related questions go to Luksy, not me. In addition to this, we have kept regular contact on IRC. I've lost count of the number of questions I've answered live that didn't make it onto the spreadsheet. I'd imagine DLPB and Luksy have maintained similar contact for accuracy-related matters.

It may sound as if I'm tooting my own horn here. The fact is, I have put quite a bit of work into this just in terms of helping polish things... and even that is a mere fraction of what DLPB and Luksy have done. Hopefully this look into the proofing and polishing process was interesting, and sheds some light on why this thing has taken so long.