[FF7PC-98] The Reunion (OLD THREAD, SAVED FOR POSTERITY)

[DLPB_]

I remember Luksy saying it was "I" though... so I'll ask him.  I think Sephiroth may just be not completing the sentence "Soon, I will become one.. [with the planet].  The same way he does elsewhere "Time...  It is almost time"

[DLPB_]

checked Dio's showroom again.  The Klein Bottle [wrongly called Klein pot in original] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_bottle) and the slayer's vase [called slayer's pot in original] were the wrong way around.  Can someone confirm this happens with the original game and translation?

Look at which dialogue box pops up when you go to the klein bottle.  Look at the link to see what it looks like.

It is easy to fix just by switching the dialogues.

[DLPB_]

Another nice flowing dialogue that sounds so much better imho

Old:

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“What's down there?”

Elena
“It's a SE-CR-ET.”{NEW}
“It really doesn't matter!
You really got guts messin'
my boss up like that!”  [psx said killing]

{CLOUD}
“You mean Boss…Tseng?
That wasn't us.
Sephiroth did it.”

Elena
“No!
Liar! Don't think you can fool me!”

{CLOUD}
“I'm not lying…
it was Sephiroth.”

Elena
“Don't try to act innocent.
I'll never forget it!!”

{CLOUD}
“Oh, man…”

Elena
“Looks like just talking won't do.
You're going to have to feel some pain!”

new:

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{CLOUD}
“What's up ahead?”

Yrena
“It's a SE-CRET.”{NEW}
“Anyway,never mind that,
  let's talk about what you did
  to the boss!”

“The boss? You mean Zeng?
  That wasn't us. It was Sephiroth.”

Yrena
“Think I'm stupid?”

{CLOUD}
“I'm telling the truth…
  It was Sephiroth.”

Yrena
“Don't play innocent with me.
  It's payback time!!”

Cloud
“Oh,boy…”

Yrena
“Looks like words aren't gonna
  cut it. I'll just have to try something
  you can understand!”

[StickySock]

Can someone confirm this happens with the original game and translation?

I would love to but my copy of ffvii pc stopped working and I was gonna wait for couple mods to finish (mainly this one) before plunking down money for a new copy. I'm actually surprised no one has helped you yet. If this continues as a trend before you finish I may just have to man up and get a copy.

[Constantine]

From a completely unmodded original PC version:

[DLPB_]

Cheers.     I was right.  They are in wrong places     They've switched.

edit.

Trnad_4 has a materia MP Turbo, but it appears yellow on field.  Script error?

edit 2.

I am now up to Tornado Labyrinth, The Reunion.  Apt.  The 3rd revision should be done within 1 week, apart from Scottish dialect that Prince Lex has to fix.

[knightsoftheround]

Oh gosh, goodie! Hopefully Lex gets his part finished soon!

PS - Also, wanted to say that any mistakes I may make on VII canon are probably due to my ridiculous amount of over-analysis being entirely based on the original PSX Baskett translation, which you've quite solidly proven in the course of this project is lacking at best. XD

[Rundas]

GOGOGO

[piccolo113]

Code: [Select]

like those
  that once ruled the hearts of men.”{NEW}
“Something this miserable world has
  been absent of for far too long.”

I don't understand the purpose of this addition. Sephiroth never struck me as the god-worshiping kind of guy, so why would he ever say something like this? I realize he's speaking about himself, but never in the entirety of the game was there a mention of gods ruling over men, so why would he be referencing something of the (presumably)ancient past like that?

[knightsoftheround]

I don't understand the purpose of this addition. Sephiroth never struck me as the god-worshiping kind of guy, so why would he ever say something like this? I realize he's speaking about himself, but never in the entirety of the game was there a mention of gods ruling over men, so why would he be referencing something of the (presumably)ancient past like that?

Based on my understanding of the project, it's not an addition, but an accurate translation of the Japanese. If it feels out of place, it's the fault of the original Japanese writers. XD Honestly though, to me it really just comes down to a 'man needs to know his place' thing rather than 'man should worship gods' if I'm being clear with the distinction. At least in the original English version, Sephiroth felt the Cetra were the 'rightful rulers' of the planet and felt that humanity had forgotten that and needed to be... 'reminded'.

His misunderstanding of Jenova and the Cetra + his overall crazy as a kite taken into account, of course.

[DLPB_]

It isn't an addition, it is what he says.  He wants to become a god "like those that once ruled the hearts of men".  The original translation is bogus.  Especially since it mentions him ruling over souls...

FF7 obviously once had a religion, and no longer does.  So Sephiroth is pining for the old days and wants himself to be that religion/god.

but never in the entirety of the game was there a mention of gods ruling over men

Until he mentioned it in that passage just there (just because no other place mentions it, does not mean it isn't true, and does not stop Sephiroth mentioning the fact).  Also, "once ruled the hearts of men" is figurative.  It means "When people believed in god".

literally "Like the gods that people used to believe in"

[Kaldarasha]

never in the entirety of the game was there a mention of gods ruling over men

And what's with the place where you meet Aerith the second time? Or the grave yard in Gonga? Or the Da-chao in Wutai?
There are many kinds of religions in FF7 as a contrast to the science and money based society (the Yin and Yang concept. No god without a devil).
Sephiroth has a different kind of knowledge and understanding of the universe, because of his travel through the Lifestream. Maybe there is a higher being or maybe Sephiroth is completely crazy.

[DLPB_]

Well, bottom line is, that's what he says

[piccolo113]

Ahh, I see what you guys are saying. I suppose it's just my natural reaction to reading something so completely different to what is ingrained into my mind from playing the playstation version so many times (and yet, some other details from the game never stick).

[DLPB_]

It's interesting actually that line... because it tells the player that by and large the ff7 world does not believe in god. So it is a very important line also.  It also depends on if Luksy got it right, but I am pretty sure he has! 

[knightsoftheround]

Based on lines from Bugenhagen, I get the impression the FFVII world is a very old and tired world, so a rather high level of disillusionment seems pretty likely (and is rather heavily reflected by many of the NPCs. XD)

[DLPB_]

It's end game now for the localisation... drawing nearer.

Areas post meteor (ones done in green).  Then it is time for Midhir.

Kalm
Chocobo Farm
Fort Condor
Junon
Wutai
Gongaga
Bone Village
Icicle Lodge
Rocket Village
North Corel
Costa del Sol
Niblheim
Cosmo Canyon
Other areas.

Old

Code: [Select]

{CLOUD}
“That I wasn't in Nibelheim five
years ago.”{NEW}
“That's it, isn't it?”
------------------------------
Sephiroth
“I see you finally understand.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“What you are trying to say is
that you want to confuse me, right?”{NEW}
“But…even making me see those
things won't affect me.”{NEW}
“I remember it all.
The heat of the fire…the pain
in my body…and in my heart!”
------------------------------
Sephiroth
“Oh, is that so?”{NEW}
“You are just a puppet…
You have no heart…and cannot
feel any pain…”{NEW}
“How can there be any meaning in the
memory of such a being?”{NEW}
“What I have shown you is reality.
What you remember,
that is the illusion.”


Code: [Select]

New
{CLOUD}
“Niblheim,5 years ago…
  That I wasn't there?”{NEW}
“That's it,isn't it?”
------------------------------
Sephiroth
“I see you understand.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“The illusions you want me to believe,
  they're all just to confuse me,right?”{NEW}
“But…
  even making me see those
  things won't change anything.”{NEW}
“I remember it all.
  The heat of the flames,
  the pain… my heartache!”
------------------------------
Sephiroth
“Oh,is that so?”{NEW}
“You are a puppet.
  You have no heart.
  You do not feel pain.”{NEW}
“Thus,how can a memory
  like yours have any meaning?”{NEW}
“The world that I have shown
  you is the truth. Illusions are
  what you created.”

[Isuldor]

Yahoo!  I'm glad to see so much progress is being made.   

[DLPB_]

Another 6 hour straight.  Eyes failing. Nearly there.

Up to Mindfield (Cloud's mind).  After this, there isn't too much left!  Looking at another day or 2 before 3rd revision is done, I think. 

[knightsoftheround]

Kyaaa! 8D I'm probably going to hold off until Lex finishes his bit though. :>

[DLPB_]

Last one for now   This will be done tomorrow or Wednesday at the latest.

Old

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“I don't remember the path I walked.”
------------------------------
“{TIFA} missed her step.
I ran to her…but didn't make it in time.”
------------------------------
“We both fell off the cliff.”
------------------------------
“Back then, I only scarred my knees
but…”
------------------------------
“{CLOUD}!
Why'd you bring {TIFA}
to a place like this!”
------------------------------
“What the hell's the matter with you!?”
------------------------------
“What if she dies!?”
------------------------------
“{TIFA} was in a coma
for seven days.”
------------------------------
“We all thought she wouldn't make it.”
------------------------------
“If only I could've saved her…”
------------------------------
“I was so angry…
at myself for my weakness.”
------------------------------
“Ever since then,
I felt {TIFA} blamed me…”
------------------------------
“I went out of control…
I'd get into fights
with anyone.”
------------------------------
“That was the first time
I heard about Sephiroth.”
------------------------------
“I thought if I were strong
like Sephiroth, then…”
------------------------------
New

Code: [Select]

‘I don't remember
  how we got there.’
------------------------------
‘{TIFA} missed her step.
  I ran to help her,but
  didn't make it in time.’
------------------------------
‘We both…
  fell off the cliff.’
------------------------------
‘Back then,I only grazed
  my knees,but…’
------------------------------
{TIFA}'s Father
“{CLOUD}!
  Why'd you bring {TIFA}
  to a place like this!?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}'s Father
“What the hell were you thinking!?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}'s Father
“What if she dies!?”
------------------------------
‘{TIFA} was out cold
  for 7 days.’
------------------------------
‘I didn't think
 she'd make it.’
------------------------------
‘If only I'd been
 able to save her…’
------------------------------
‘I was so frustrated and angry that
  I'd been too weak to do anything.’
------------------------------
‘After that,I always felt as
  though {TIFA} blamed me
  for what had happened.’
------------------------------
‘I went out of control.
  I got into fights with
  anyone and everyone.’
------------------------------
‘Then I heard
  about Sephiroth.’
------------------------------
‘And I wanted to be like him.
  If I were strong like Sephiroth,
  everyone would…’

[ThunderPeel2001]

Love the idea behind this project, and I really like what I've seen, but you asked for constructive criticism, so here's mine: I have to wonder if you're sometimes making changes for the sake of making them?

For example:

“I see you finally understand.”

To:

“I see you understand.”

Sometimes you change the meaning, too. For example:

“{TIFA} was in a coma
   for seven days.”

To:

‘{TIFA} was out cold
  for 7 days.’

(Incidentally, numbers less then 10 are usually written out, so "seven" is preferable to "7" according to typical English guidelines.)

Or

“We all thought she wouldn't make it.”

To:

‘I didn't think
 she'd make it.’

Are these changes based on your understanding of the original Japanese script, or just your own understanding of what's going on?

Congrats on such an awesome Mod! I look forward to using the final version.

[DLPB_]

The changes are made based on a very fluent Japanese translator who works with me.  As for numbers, I have tried to maintain consistency throughout the game by using numbers instead of the words that represent them when talking about times or ages.  There is no standard rule that everyone agrees on.  It is writers' preference from dialogue to dialogue.  I have never heard of this "lower than 10" rule before either, do you have any source for this?

I would surmise also that Cloud would use "out cold" to coma.  It is again a preference, and I think it was the translator, Luksy, who placed that phrase in.  I agree with it. 

I always stick to the absolute facts based on the Japanese where possible, and any deviation is either because it can't work, or sounds really odd.  These cases are few and far between. I don't change anything for the sake of it.

"Finally understand" will be brought up with Luksy, it all depends on if Sephiroth really says something similar in the Japanese.

[Ver Greeneyes]

I have never heard of this "lower than 10" rule before either, do you have any source for this?

Here's a few:
Rules for Writing Numbers
10 Rules for Writing Numbers and Numerals

It's definitely something I've heard before and noticed in novels. Using numerals where they aren't needed tends to break the flow a bit.

[Covarr]

“We all thought she wouldn't make it.”

To:

‘I didn't think
 she'd make it.’

I can't say for sure, not having seen the original, but it's distinctly possible this didn't have a pronoun at all to begin with, in which case either I or we could be correct depending on context. Japanese frequently leaves out pronouns when context clues will suffice, or when it doesn't matter.

I have to wonder if you're sometimes making changes for the sake of making them?

It's not really accurate to say he's "making changes". This is a new, fresh translation from the original Japanese, not a reworking of the original translation. The idea isn't simply to correct what's wrong, but to redo everything, almost as though there were never a 1997 translation to begin with. If something does end up the same as the original, that's fine and dandy, but it's not being used as a starting point.