Author Topic: Religion  (Read 31793 times)

DarkFang

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Religion
« on: 2011-05-01 23:46:25 »
What are your views?

No flaming.

Cupcake

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Re: Religion
« Reply #1 on: 2011-05-02 00:49:50 »
I see no logical reason to believe in a god in today's day and age, and while I dislike religion as a whole, I fully respect the right of others to believe in a god/follow a religion.  That being said, I do rather like the idea of the laws of physics that allow our universe to exist being called god.

DarkFang

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Re: Religion
« Reply #2 on: 2011-05-02 00:51:29 »
^ That basically just summed everything up for me. I don't judge other people, unless they start something first.

Vgr

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3 on: 2011-05-02 00:58:12 »
Everything was said I think for now. But unlike Cupcake, I hate people that believe in god(s). Don't even start me on it, it is like FFs or political vision, once I start I can't stop.

Cupcake

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Re: Religion
« Reply #4 on: 2011-05-02 01:06:46 »
Everything was said I think for now. But unlike Cupcake, I hate people that believe in god(s). Don't even start me on it, it is like FFs or political vision, once I start I can't stop.

Believe me, the moment someone starts talking about god to me, I rip them a new asshole.  Don't think for a second I just let it go.  I won't talk to you about how I don't have an invisible man in the sky who sees everything everybody does, and if you do a few wrong things, will put you in a lake of fire for all eternity, if you don't talk to me about how you do.  If you do talk to me about yours, believe me, I will fucking DESTROY you.  Not to mention point out the various logical fallacies within your holy book of choice (I mean... COME ON, The bible contradicts itself within the first two fucking chapters

DLPB_

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Re: Religion
« Reply #5 on: 2011-05-02 01:12:09 »
Religion.  Once served a purpose, now serves none.  Creates far too many problems, especially Islam, which is an ideology from a war-lord.

All of them are outdated (with exception of Buddhism which is strictly not in the same league). 

All religions are man made and any that claim to be divine are lying.  I personally believe in some form of higher power, however that does not mean I believe in fairy tales or after life or the man made deities in a few books.  It is all man made rubbish. 

We do not need telling what is right and wrong.  Anybody who uses religion as  a moral guide has a problem, not least because they are only behaving the way they do because they are being told to or are being offered some sort of reward.

The sooner religion dies out the better, however a large amount of people are stupid/naive and believe in Aliens visiting earth, 9/11 conspiracy theories and religion.  It may take  a very long time before we finally shed the last shackle.


Vgr

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Re: Religion
« Reply #6 on: 2011-05-02 01:16:20 »
Religion is fucking shit. If there was a god, then there were not wars, hungry people and so on... at vitam eternam...

DLPB, I hate you! Why? Because you said everything I wanted to say, and, moreover, you stayed calm!!!

Ok, I'm gonna say what I loooooove to say :

RELIGION IS FUCKIN SHIT AND SHITIN FUCK WITH SHIT FUCK AND FUCK SHIT!!!!!

Ok, lets stop it now...

DarkFang

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Re: Religion
« Reply #7 on: 2011-05-02 01:20:40 »
Maybe this was a bad idea, lol.

My thoughts are, if there was a higher power or a God, they have since then deceased. If you view the world today, there's absolutely no chance there is a God that wants peace and all the evil to be vanquished.

Vgr

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Re: Religion
« Reply #8 on: 2011-05-02 01:21:42 »
Chuck Norris > All

DLPB_

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Re: Religion
« Reply #9 on: 2011-05-02 01:27:46 »
Maybe this was a bad idea, lol.

My thoughts are, if there was a higher power or a God, they have since then deceased. If you view the world today, there's absolutely no chance there is a God that wants peace and all the evil to be vanquished.

That does not go against the idea.  In fact, if a god were to intervene it would fundamentally affect free will.  For good to exist, bad also has to exist.  If a god was to be fair, it would not be allowed to intervene.

Unfortunately, this also means that if a higher power created the universe etc, it didn't care that there would be a lot of suffering in its world.  But this is assuming that thought is the same for a higher power as it is for us.

Certainly, whatever the truth is, it is way beyond what a human can comprehend.  On that I can be completely sure.

xLostWingx

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Re: Religion
« Reply #10 on: 2011-05-02 02:16:55 »
Completely Unrelated is littered with posts of my views.  Actually, its better if I don't say anything.

obesebear

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Re: Religion
« Reply #11 on: 2011-05-02 03:48:45 »
Something created the universe.  Why? Because the laws as we know them and have experienced expressly declare that something can't just form from nothing.  It is impossible. 

I think that for any religion to be taken seriously, it needs to understand God, not as a being of pure good, but rather one who is completely just.  One who did create both good and bad, but also bestowed reason and logic for us to differentiate between the two.  If there is an after life, it only makes sense that we would be judge based on our actions here. And given that we know the difference between good and bad, would somehow be held accountable. I have yet to decide how I feel about an afterlife though.

A lake of fire? I doubt it. An eternal paradise? Also doubtful. But to think EVERYTHING in the universe was all by chance is completely ludicrous at this point in our understanding.

Masa-Buster

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Re: Religion
« Reply #12 on: 2011-05-02 03:49:41 »
I myself am Wicca/Wiccan whatever you wanna call it.

Though the religions that believe in "God" don't deserve to be flamed on etc, it's just what they believe but there is one religion that should burn in the deepest pit of hell. Scientology NEVER understood that religion -.-

If there is any proof of a higher being or anything as such, like say one day say there's a God-On-Earth scenario, I'll HAPPILY start believing in God. 

Cupcake

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Re: Religion
« Reply #13 on: 2011-05-02 05:34:30 »
I myself am Wicca/Wiccan whatever you wanna call it.

Scientology NEVER understood that religion -.-

Got it, so a religion formed because someone saw pagan religions and went "OH COOL" and formed one on a power trip in England in the early 20th century, is more valid than one that was formed in the mid 20th century for money.

Kemlin

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Re: Religion
« Reply #14 on: 2011-05-02 05:46:00 »
Agnostic. Intellectually, I cannot confirm nor deny the existence of a monotheistic God.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Religion
« Reply #15 on: 2011-05-02 11:26:55 »
What are your views?

The world's favourite mental illness. The stronger the religious belief, the sicker the mind.

To see it in its purest form, watch some of the videos made by a certain man who has just died. Remember that suicide bombers are the most devout people on the planet.

Agnostic. Intellectually, I cannot confirm nor deny the existence of a monotheistic God.

ohboyherewegoagain.jpg

xLostWingx

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Re: Religion
« Reply #16 on: 2011-05-02 17:28:15 »
As far as I know, modern Wicca is a different animal than centuries old paganism.  I actually wrote a research paper on it like 7 years ago.

There is a thick grey line between mental illness and religious belief.  Your everyday believer does not qualify for any mental illness based on those beliefs alone.

As far as afterlife is concerned, maybe our conciousness/soul is absorbed into the infinite conciousness/divine energy of "God".  The question is whether we retain our individuality in any afterlife - it would be nice, but probably doesn't happen that way.
« Last Edit: 2011-05-02 17:30:28 by xLostWingx »

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Religion
« Reply #17 on: 2011-05-02 18:01:59 »
As far as I know, modern Wicca is a different animal than centuries old paganism.  I actually wrote a research paper on it like 7 years ago.

Yes it is.

Wicca takes bits from the various old European religions (which had very little in common) and keeps the bits it likes whilst ignoring the bits it doesn't like.

There is a thick grey line between mental illness and religious belief.  Your everyday believer does not qualify for any mental illness based on those beliefs alone.

The fact that religion gets off so lightly is due only to political correctness and the unwarranted respect that religion is given in religious and recently religious societies.

xLostWingx

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Re: Religion
« Reply #18 on: 2011-05-02 18:58:31 »
The fact that religion gets off so lightly is largely due only to political correctness and the unwarranted respect that religion is given in religious and recently religious societies.

If you mean in general, then I would say pretty much the same thing, except not quite as strongly.  If you mean in regards to mental illness, most diagnostic models require that beliefs/behaviors/symptoms be responsible for some clinically significant impairment of functioning.  This is why someone can be a narcissist without having Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  Religious beliefs can be categorized as 'bizarre' or 'magical' beliefs from a diagnostic perspective, but only the Westborough Baptist's, suicide bombers, and the like would be considered to have a Mental Illness based on their *religious beliefs.  But you must admit there is a distinction between what religion means to these people, and what religion means to non-psychotic/secularized believer.

Given that I agree with a lot of your projection of human development in the coming decades/centuries, I imagine that there will be a time in the future where religious beliefs will be considered mental illness, but realize that the label of "mentally ill" is, and has been constantly transforming for thousands of years. 

yarLson

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Re: Religion
« Reply #19 on: 2011-05-02 19:04:53 »
say one day say there's a God-On-Earth scenario, I'll HAPPILY start believing in God.
you might wanna be careful with that.

it could end up being an elaborate rouse using holographic techonology to make you think god has returned when it fact its nothing more than a sattelite projection

Project Blue Beam for example

not that I necissarily believe such a plot exists, but I wouldn't put it past the idiotic American admin

as for religion, well I have a very unique belief system, but after observing numerous photos from the hubble telescope and seeing all the majestic shapes and paterns of the stars and galaxies. I wouldn't be suprised if natural structures have some form of consciousness of their own, such as a galaxy or galactic cluster. I came to this conclusion after realizing that the galaxies align very similarly to how the inside of our bodies aligns. Our bodies are made up of trillions of life forms, I wouldn't be shocked if all these epic star systems collectively form some kind of supreme universal consciousness, or God if you will just as the cells of our bodies come together to form us. However this is about as far I can go into the matter without sounding terribly insulting to religious institutions the world over.

In short I don't like it, its an outdated concept and it ruins lives, justifies wars, encourages ignorance etc. I believe we will either abandon these old story book concepts of religion and replace them with our own investigative objectivism (science) at some time in the near future, or we will face the destruction of the human race, or the return of the stone age at best. Just my opinion

Covarr

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Re: Religion
« Reply #20 on: 2011-05-02 20:44:37 »
Religion is fucking shit. If there was a god, then there were not wars, hungry people and so on... at vitam eternam...

DLPB, I hate you! Why? Because you said everything I wanted to say, and, moreover, you stayed calm!!!

Ok, I'm gonna say what I loooooove to say :

RELIGION IS FUCKIN SHIT AND SHITIN FUCK WITH SHIT FUCK AND FUCK SHIT!!!!!

Ok, lets stop it now...
No flaming.
lol.

One thing I've seen time and time again is the general attitude of "fuck you, you're intolerant". To say that religion is the cause of hate and bigotry, all while acting hateful and bigoted, some of the most hypocritical behavior I've seen.

Religion.  Once served a purpose, now serves none.  Creates far too many problems, especially Islam, which is an ideology from a war-lord.

All of them are outdated (with exception of Buddhism which is strictly not in the same league).
To act as if religion is "outdated" is to act as though human nature has changed in the past 2000 years. The thing is, it hasn't. Humanity is still as dimwitted, selfish, and most of all, arrogant as ever. Scientific achievements have brought the world a long way, but that's a reflection on knowledge and its way of building on itself, not on mankind's behavior or attitudes.
The world's favourite mental illness. The stronger the religious belief, the sicker the mind.

To see it in its purest form, watch some of the videos made by a certain man who has just died. Remember that suicide bombers are the most devout people on the planet.
I have no doubt that Mother Theresa was stronger in her religious belief than Osama Bin Laden, but few would say her mind was sick, and no reasonable person would say she was sicker than Osama.

it ruins lives, justifies wars, encourages ignorance etc.
People who want a war will justify it one way or another, with or without religion. This is a fault of human nature. What's more, the vast majority of religious wars are either not actually about religion (the Crusades, for example, were about restoring stolen land to its rightful owners), or about some horribly bastardized misrepresentation of the religion they claim to be fighting for (the Qur'an, for all its problems and violence, doesn't say anything about suicide bombing and killing thousands of innocents, and most Sunni Muslims do not even support Al-Qaeda's cause).

I strongly suspect that the most adamantly anti-religion crusaders are in fact not atheistic at all like they claim, but rather DO believe in a God and are angry at Him. No logically-behaving person could be that passionately hateful towards a being that they don't even believe exists. (please note I am only referring to militant atheists here, the ones for whom it is not enough merely not to believe in a higher power, but feel the need to be assholes about it, such as Richard Dawkins and Ricky Gervais)

yarLson

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Re: Religion
« Reply #21 on: 2011-05-02 20:50:33 »
I understand that a there are a million justifications for warfare, but religion has allowed this to become a standard way of thinking. An ultimatum if you will, either you go to war or you endure the shame of casting aside your religions beliefs in the heat of the moment.

I believe that War, like all things, serves a purpose, but I also believe, like all behaviors, that it can become pathological and harmful where it should be helpful to the contruction of new societies and the spreading of new ideas.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Religion
« Reply #22 on: 2011-05-02 20:56:43 »
If you mean in general, then I would say pretty much the same thing, except not quite as strongly.  If you mean in regards to mental illness, most diagnostic models require that beliefs/behaviors/symptoms be responsible for some clinically significant impairment of functioning.  This is why someone can be a narcissist without having Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  Religious beliefs can be categorized as 'bizarre' or 'magical' beliefs from a diagnostic perspective, but only the Westborough Baptist's, suicide bombers, and the like would be considered to have a Mental Illness based on their *religious beliefs.  But you must admit there is a distinction between what religion means to these people, and what religion means to non-psychotic/secularized believer.

That last bit is an oxymoron.

A lot of people like to argue that the extremists should not be taken as the standard for religious people. This is another mistake that political correctness causes; we seek the friendliest people to be the archetype for their religion because we want to say that "x is the religion or peace" or that the extremists (i.e. the people who go against secular Western morals) are perverting the faith. This is very bad. The moderates are people who do not take their religion seriously. They believe in some vague, watered-down version of the religion they were brought up in, and their morals are nearly always humanist ones mixed with the meekest and least repulsive of the old religious commandments. Moderates are half-believers. They might not be classifiable as insane, but that does not mean that religion is not a mental illness, since they're not really very religious. They have a mild religion that comes with a comparatively mild amount of irrationality.

The most sincere believers are the most extreme ones. The extreme ones are the people who honestly believe in heaven and hell and everlasting life*, the extreme ones are the ones who faithfully believe every word of their holy books and who follow all their religion's commandments as long as they don't contradict each other. These people are also mentally ill.

*Have you ever noticed that it's only the crazies who are willing to become martyrs? If good, faithful people go to heaven, why are so many believers so scared of death? Could it be because they're secretly sceptical about heaven? And that only the crazies are sure that it exists? Surely not! They say that there are no atheists in foxholes, but I say that there are no believers when the Nazis are at the door of the church and demanding that Bishop Kollaborateur tell his congregation to render all unto the worst Caesar in history. (yes, I read Hitchens' book recently :-P)

Given that I agree with a lot of your projection of human development in the coming decades/centuries, I imagine that there will be a time in the future where religious beliefs will be considered mental illness, but realize that the label of "mentally ill" is, and has been constantly transforming for thousands of years

Pfft, if it's considered a mental illness one day, I'll consider myself vindicated. Of course, I'll probably be a head in a jar by then :-(

I have no doubt that Mother Theresa was stronger in her religious belief than Osama Bin Laden, but few would say her mind was sick, and no reasonable person would say she was sicker than Osama.

It's a general trend, not an absolute correlation.

And mother Theresa wasn't as saintly as she was portrayed to be

I strongly suspect that the most adamantly anti-religion crusaders are in fact not atheistic at all like they claim, but rather DO believe in a God and are angry at Him.

And I strongly suspect that the "hurr all atheists are angry teenagers" argument is one of the worst in history.

No logically-behaving person could be that passionately hateful towards a being that they don't even believe exists.

Learn the difference between "God" and "the concept of God". The former hasn't killed anyone. The latter has killed millions.

(please note I am only referring to militant atheists here, the ones for whom it is not enough merely not to believe in a higher power, but feel the need to be assholes about it, such as Richard Dawkins and Ricky Gervais)

Can someone explain to me why atheists are considered militant if they tell people that they're stupid, whereas religious people are considered militant when they murder hundreds of civilians or command others to do so? Could it be that you're trying to equate these two things? To imply that they have anything in common at all? Or could it be that you consider questioning religion to be as bad as killing someone?

When I see Richard Dawkins hijack a plane and fly it into a building, I'll take seriously your argument that he's a "militant atheist". Until then, I'll accuse you of using hyperbole to the point of dishonesty.
« Last Edit: 2011-05-02 21:01:08 by Kudistos Megistos »

Opine

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Re: Religion
« Reply #23 on: 2011-05-02 21:04:23 »
Chuck Norris > All
I'm surprised you'd say that since CN's a huge bible humper...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pnFg0Sp2Xw

DarkFang

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Re: Religion
« Reply #24 on: 2011-05-02 21:18:22 »
I'm surprised you'd say that since CN's a huge bible humper...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pnFg0Sp2Xw
I wanna roundhouse kick him in the nuts.