Author Topic: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.  (Read 12695 times)

zaphod77

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When the files were converted from the internal ps1 format to midi, some mistakes were amde in the conversion.  Some problems slipped through. I am trying to spot them, and fix those I know how. I'm working mainly with the AWE files, as they are supposed to sound like the real thing as muhc as possible. 

Seeing as these official midi files are often posted, i think it is okay for us to attempt to improve on the original files and post the fixed versions for download.

I'm looking for help in this project, but have one one file improved already. that is dokubo.mid.  The signature bas riff has been fixed, and now plays identical to the psx original.

link here

http://eunich.cochems.com/~zaphod/ff7awefixed/dokubo.mid

Yes, i know the guitar is still wrong. yes i know the percussion isn't balanced identically to the psx one.  But its the little things that count.  ANyone willing to improve on my work is welcome to it. WHen this project is done, we shoudl be able to a/b compare all the songs against the soundtrack.  I am not changing the balance/chorus/reverb/instrument patches at all myself, as i do no tyhave the skills, but if the corrected data is plugged into corrected soundfont patches, the midis should be right (with the notable exception of you can hear the cries of the planet, which will NEVER be perfect in AWE mode.

SOme other sequencing errors I know of that need fixing.

1) in electric de chocobo,  the GM and AWE versions skip one entire repetition of the main chocobo melody line entirely. a simple midi cut and paste will fix this. This is NOT present in the YGM or XG versions, they did it right!
2) in the same midi, the guitar riff half way through is wrrong.  Compare it with the unnoficial midi floating around and/or the actual souundtrack, and you will hear how it's wrong clearly. this is also a relatively easy fix with the old sequencer (the slide that stars off the riff, however, is not, as again we have the awe doesn't support portmanteau problem, and we woudl need to adject pitch bend sensitivity to do it right for an AWE) This error IS present in the xg version as well, although the portmenteau works there, i think.

EDIT: Okay, improved elec.mid also up

http://eunich.cochems.com/~zaphod/ff7awefixed/elec.mid


Hello? anybdody home? I know a few of you have tried these midi files. :) (having acess to the access logs of the webserver is a wonderful thing. :) )
« Last Edit: 2006-09-20 16:14:06 by zaphod77 »

BluECliQ

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #1 on: 2006-09-23 03:14:13 »
Good luck with this project, but rather than go through the trouble to fix MIDI files why not just use FF7Music and use MP3's. It's amazing to have MP3 quality and the occasional remix track I throw in here and there.

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #2 on: 2006-09-23 03:21:39 »
ff7music is known to cause instability in the program, which is why I prefer to fix the midis.  As I said, i coudl use help, but even my tone deaf ears can spot some of the problems and how to fix them. :)

sice i have a genuine creative card, soundfonnt midi is easy on the cpu, and is higher quality then .mp3 when it's working right. It also loops seamlessly, insted of having to manually tweak loop point after loop point (assuming this can even be done) and the psf player does have stability issues.

as i've said in the other thread, what i really want to do is extract all samples form the psf manually, create a soundfont from the unaltered samples, then reconvert all the midis for perfection.  Some of these midis (chu.mid and chu2.mid) it's quite easy to find on the net, but others definitely need re-extraction from the psx original.


zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #3 on: 2006-10-06 08:29:12 »
I still need help with this project, people.

THrough much A/B comparing i've determined that i canot fix things thru mid file editing alone, though i can come closer than Eidos did.

1) some midis have overlapping notes at the same pitch. (note off and note on at the same time) all the note offs need to be fixed (dropped by .001 or whatever the smallest unit is) to fix. i had to do this with dokubo.mid, and a number of other mids need it. this is doable, and pretty easy. it will just take while.

2) i need people with better ears than me to when possible correct the volume levels.  when not possible, we need a list of tese problem instruments, and they need to be re-extracted, along with the midis that use them, so we can figure  out the right levels to correct the PC midis for.

CaptainNoobtastic

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #4 on: 2006-10-06 15:23:26 »
erm, i have no idea about midi editing, however.. the intro on elec.midi is off, its hard to explain in detail whats wrong with it because im not someone that knows much about the technicalities and terminologies so i cant really say whats wrong with it...

plus there are various bits where the sound on certain channels isnt as loud as it should be, just a bunch of little things...

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #5 on: 2006-10-06 19:39:47 »
I know the intro is off compared to the real thing. I hear it too. there's a higher pitched component that is missing. teh unofficial midi has the higher pitched component, but not the lower one.

and yes, the voluime levels of many tracks are off in the midi files. i know this. but i'mnot good enough to "correct" them, and some of them cannot be helped because the instrument samples are wrong.

What i really want to do is re-extract the midi files myself, then redo the soundfont to include ALL psx samples.  but i don't have the psx version to do this with, only the PC one.

CaptainNoobtastic

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #6 on: 2006-10-06 21:29:46 »
well here is a link to get the psx version (so glad to talk to people that are aware it was known as the psx before the psone and PS2 came along)

that link is for new copies of it, all between 10 and 15 GBP

If anyone could point me in the direction of a tut. on editing MIDIs or even making them from scratch i might be able to help :)

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #7 on: 2006-10-07 04:23:54 »
pal verions. real handy for me, as I'm in the usa. but thanks anyway.

I now believe that the midis that the PC version is based on were early versions of the songs. There is missing instrumentation insome, believe it or not (the main battle theme, for example is definitely missing notes near the end)

i really wish someone would make a psf2mid+sf2 converter. :)

CaptainNoobtastic

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #8 on: 2006-10-07 04:59:26 »
i wish it was a little easier getting mp3s to play instead of these god-damn midis, lol

stormmedia

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #9 on: 2006-10-07 08:16:10 »
Well zaphod77 I still think that most of the mid files in the PC version are exactly the same as the psx version... it's just that in the psx version they can use whatever they want as midi simples and make it compatible with any play station... but with the PC it's a little more complicated since every sound card has it's own instruments simples and not all of them support soundfonts so it's hard to set the volumes right.... thats a little why I started my SFFS project it will be compatible with every system since the midi will be rendered by a softsynth using my soundfont instead of the sound card ... so it's always the same simples so no more volumes or soundfont compatiility problems.

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #10 on: 2006-10-07 22:26:22 »
AT the part where the ocarina comes in in bat.mid, it is a solo synth riff throuout on the pc verson, but on the psx, just after the one minute mark, a second ocarina starts harmonizing!

This is one such example. The chocobo surf guitar riff being wrong and an entire repition of the emlody line beeing missing is another clue sugesting that an earlier version of the music was used to make the PC midi files.

UNfortunately, the person who designed the.PSF format doesn't seem to be willign to help make a midi converter o r sample ripper for it.

i'm trying to fix that too, but am not sure how much to transpose the riff down in the key of g sharp to get it to sound right.

edit

okay, i think I got it now. but i spotted yet ANOTHER difference, and this time my ears aren't good enough to pick it out. 

and  Jenova (chu2.mid) definitely has some instruments in the wrong octave at parts, but it doesn't sound even close to the psx one when i try to fix that either.  They could have done better, setting more wise loop  points and chopping down wasted sample space and using the room for more accurate instruments.

anyway for awe users whoalso have the OST

http://eunich.cochems.com/~zaphod/ff7awefixed/bat.mid
« Last Edit: 2006-10-10 03:51:32 by zaphod77 »

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #11 on: 2006-10-10 08:50:33 »
Okay, it's official. I have lost ALL respect for the people who did the pc midi conversion.   keep A/Bing the psfs with the awe midis and i'm finding diffrerences that they should have been able to do better with.

Fact. The PSX version includes only 84 samples for a total of 2.5 megs, about 850k of which is the OWA choir samples!  This coudl EASILY have fit into a single 4 meg soundfont. I know because i just extracted the samples myself. (hooray PSound!)  Clever use of chorus, filter, layering, and modification of looppoints created all the instruments used in the original game. ALL of this can be done in .sf2, including the filter!

Many instruments are different.

Many volume levels are off.

And in some cases, the parameters of the instruments are tweaked in real time. This is done in Hurry! (aseri.mid) for one example. They have the filter sweeping back and forth throughout the bass line. The awe32 (and all .sf2 supporting cards) are in fact capable of doing this trick in midi, and they left it out. this is doable in XG as well, and yet they don't do it in the XG version of the midi either.  The mid boggles, because they use filters to great effect in Mako Reactor XG version.

They could have done every single song perfectly, and fit it ALL in two soundfints that are under 2 megs each (one for OWA, and one for all other songs)  instead they rushed it, and we can hear the results.

Yeah. I'm getting a bit dissilusioned here...

halkun

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #12 on: 2006-10-10 09:13:36 »
PSound? Can you get me in touch with the person who wrote that. We need a way to extract the audio from the PSX disk....

stormmedia

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #13 on: 2006-10-10 13:08:46 »
zaphod77:
Hey don't get too angry... I agree that when they did the PC version they did it a hurry.... just when you see the compatibilty issues of this game(along with ff8) it doesn't makes any doubt of it... but the midi is the part the more complicated to implement since there is no REAL  standard... I mean it vary a lot from system to system... they had to make them the more compatible they can to avoid even more compatibility problems.  Did you noticed that the XG Softsynth have polyphony configuration along with quality settings.... I guess this would mean that back then when the program was created the computer had some problem running it without lag.... maybe it was a source of lag all the effect they seems to have cut.... I don't know at all about these effect missing or what you say since I just heard the PSX version once... but what I know is that it's always easier to make something exactly as you want it, when you create a game with midi, when you know it will be played always with the same system .... like a play station.  I agree that the PC version of the midi may have a lack of fluidity but... the last time I heard the PSX version I was under the impression that the instruments sounded worst than in the PC XG version... so I think that even if there is some effect that are missing it sound better on the PC and will sound even better if someone makes some instrments and the mid sound betteri... but not only to sound like the PSX version but to surpasse the PSX version.... that's why I'm here.... my true goal with my SFFS project is to make a soundfont that have the real sounding of the instuments (more or less) and to modify the midi so the instruments sound more real... And I think you can realy do something about getting the music better you too.... but getting mad about the midi being done in a rush won't makes them better... I mean allll the PC version was done in a rush.... they didn't even think about making a limit to the mini games... so more your computer is fast the more the minigames are fast... That's why someone here "dziugo" fixed it with his mini game patch.... so we found that the midi did sound good so we gonna fix it... I have my way to fix it(making them sound more real) and you have yours (making them sound more like the PSX version) witch is as good as mine in it's own way... and both of our project can be combine to make the midi sound even better.

So I think the important thing in this post is that I think you shouldn't be angry about this ... it could have a reason why they did that that way... instead of getting angry at them .. just try to make them better... THERE you will find more results :-).

Well I wish you good luck with your project again :-)
See you!
« Last Edit: 2006-10-10 13:16:10 by stormmedia »

halkun

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #14 on: 2006-10-10 17:25:50 »
Looking at the original track information. I always assumed that the midi in the PC game was the midi that the .SEQ was initally based on. Then the PSX SEQ was tweaked after the fact. The SPU doen't make a very good MIDI player out of the box. They had to "polish" the midi after it's import.

Also remeber, when work began on the PC FF7 port, they originally had an older version of the code. They might of had older dependancies too.

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #15 on: 2006-10-11 17:40:03 »
Download link for Psound

http://www.zophar.net/utilities/download/PSound133.zip

NOw wil someone PLEASE get me the original .SEQ files? I have a seq o midi conveter, and I wish to run them thru it, so I can get the proper volume and expression levels, and then try remapping the pc sounds to them.

If we are really lucky i'll be able to gt the filter info out of the seq for aseri and stuff like this.

I extracted my samples from the psflib file, after covnerting ti back to a psx-exe. many of them areso small that winamp chokes on them.   that's why i don't have the .SEQ files

Some of them sound kinda strange, but i suspect they are used in multipl instruments with different loop points.  The ones i did extract should in theory have the loop points already in them for programs that can detect them.

My point here is the AWE32, which was oen of the officially suppppported midi platforms, could have accurately replicated all the psx files.  i men PERFECTLY. the EMU synth chips can do EVERYTHING the psx coudl with the same sample data.  that's why i'm mad.  The problems in the XG files are more forgivable, because th eXG team did the best they could weith what they had to work with.

ANd because of this, i have to go back to the original samples and seq files myself to fix things, as the pc midi data cannot be relied on!
« Last Edit: 2006-10-11 17:49:47 by zaphod77 »

halkun

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #16 on: 2006-10-11 22:21:30 »
The offical tools only wnet one way (MIDI -> SEQ)

The SEQ to midi program is not perfect and the quantinazations are all messed up.

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #17 on: 2006-10-12 09:15:06 »
well, forgive me for wanting to test myself.  I has one heck of a time even finding that seq2mid program, and wonder if it's the same one you know of.

halkun

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #18 on: 2006-10-12 11:10:58 »
The Japanese one? Yea, I think there is only that one.

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #19 on: 2006-10-12 23:03:55 »
yeah thats the one.  but i need a seq to try it out on. I think the pc midis can be trusted for the quantization data, and most deent midi sequencers can quantitize well enough.  It's the track volume, expression, and note velocities that i need to get the originals for, as well as the missing midi data.

zaphod77

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Re: Project to fix sequencing errors in FF7PC midi files.
« Reply #20 on: 2006-10-14 20:24:46 »
OKay, corrected another midi.
this on is the long fanfare. they put the wrong instrument in., but the correct one was present as well in the soundfont.

I corrected the volume as well.

http://eunich.cochems.com/~zaphod/ff7awefixed/fan2.mid
should sound nearly identical to psx now. :)

(well except that the strings bit messes up. grrr. i'm going to have to split the tracks up to do this right.  will upload proper fixed one tomorrow.)

Still unhappy with it, but it's a lot closer now.  They used a nonstandard trick to mess with the fadeouts on the strings, and i ran out of tracks trying to fix it so that it did the right thing on all synths. i ended uphavngng to average the pan of the FOUR seperate string tacks into one and split up the recombined track.

« Last Edit: 2006-10-15 19:12:52 by zaphod77 »