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Final Fantasy Forums => Graphical Modding => Topic started by: Tsunamix on 2017-05-24 16:17:24

Title: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-05-24 16:17:24
Okay so i believe i found a way to increase the quality of Field scenes dramatically.
I tested on a vanilla field and results were outstanding.

What i would like to do providing permission is given from the original authors.
IE. Satsuke, Yarlson

Is i wanna try use my improvements on an already upgraded version to see the difference.
Plus if im gonna do this i would like to give everyone the best possible anyway.

So essentially the mods in 7th heaven after being unpacked have the 3-5 layer files inside.
But they are aren't the normal layers Palmer can read.
It's the modpath layers, and i can't figure out how to assemble them back into a full PNG of the field itself.

That's what i need. Thanks in advance!

As well as that i guess, i need to know how i can get my own field after i have messed with back in.
Here's a rough example of the 1st go around of the 1st vanilla scene vs my updated one
(http://i.imgur.com/aiUOWCY.png)

All i have right now IS this picture so how do i make this into layers and such
The edges need smoothening and such but that's where i am hoping the existing modpacks will help me out
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-05-25 13:29:23
Anyone able to help me get one in game so the can test and improve on it? Also does the size have to remain at 512x512 or can it be different?
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: luksy on 2017-05-25 16:03:16
If I were you I'd probably post your methodology and some samples first, field upscales have been done to death. Not trying to dampen your spirits but there's no point in reinventing the wheel.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-05-25 18:30:28
Yeah I getcha. I'll post a few more soon then. I'll still learning how to make it the beat I can. There's a ton of different ways to do this
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-05-25 23:19:28
Okay so i got another scene here. How do i get this PNG into game. I wanna know how to test things before i really start putting time into this.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308033125479350275/317432304270311424/Test.png)
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: faulked on 2017-05-29 23:49:13
Here's the tutorial to use Palmer: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14532.0

I was able to get a new field into the game. What problem are you having?
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Lein on 2017-05-30 01:50:29
Why are everyone just working on FFVII. It's going to be remade anyway.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: DLPB on 2017-05-30 04:16:09
Why are everyone just working on FFVII. It's going to be remade anyway.

Remade very poorly on the whole, imho, and certainly nothing like the original game. The original game allows almost full modding ability too.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Salk on 2017-05-30 07:02:16
Best of luck with this, Tsunamix!

I will keep an eye on this thread and I wish you complete success!

I have been in contact with Yarlson about his last, impressive attempt to rework the field scenes (here: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=16752.0) and he said that he would welcome somebody to pass the torch to because he is not currently able (and does not know when and if he will ever be) to continue working on it.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-05-30 13:34:03
Thanks guys. Anyone know what the largest size the field can be? Does it have to remain 512x512? 

That tutorial isn't helping me much. Ive read a dozen times.
It all makes sense but I am at the stage before that. I need to know how to make my long I to layers so I can use palmer 
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: faulked on 2017-05-30 23:05:12
Step 1: Export the field file using Makou Reactor. File --> Export the Current Field

Step 2: Open field with palmer

Step 3: Export PNG files

Then you'll have the layers. You'll use the layers palmer exports as your template. Open the layers in photoshop and resize the document to the size of your custom field BG. Then bring your field into the document and use the layers as a template to break up your new BG. Save the new layers as pngs and import them into Palmer.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-05-30 23:18:51
So i have to cut my PNG to match the layers pefectly? That sound like a rough job.
Unless you wanna hop into Discord and you can show me lol
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fraggoso on 2017-05-31 08:27:46
You can split them rather easily with Gimp.
Just open all layers like faulked mentioned. Load your png at the bottom.
Select the first layer and right click on it and select alpha to selection.
Click on your imported png at the bottom and CTRL + C for copy , CTRL + V for paste and CTRL + SHIFT + N to paste the selection as a new layer which is listed on top.

That way you cut the selection from the layer out of your png.

I hope that helps.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: faulked on 2017-05-31 17:51:26
I think he's wondering how to 'unscramble' the layers Palmer creates. That's a more difficult problem.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-05-31 18:56:41
Thanks for helping guys. I think i got it now. Gonna test it tonight. Then i can really focus on seeing if this method works and if there is a mod to be made.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2017-06-03 09:02:54
This is a very nice upscale method. Keeping the original fields and making them look better is interesting. Keep it up!
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Salk on 2017-06-11 04:55:09
Hey Tsunamix,

how is the work on this proceeding? Giving you problems or is it smooth sailing?

I commend you for trying to perfect this technique and provide what I hope may be the ultimate upgrade to the original field scenes.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-11 05:08:01
Actually coming very well. I have the bombing run done. Basically perfected this now.
Sorry i haven't posted updates. I actually think i can make them even better.
Problem is it's a hell of a lot more work.

Now my main issue is my main project takes up an insane amount of time so this is going slow. But if anyone want's to join me in this i'll teach you how and we can work together

Once i get a few more ready i'll make a video to show everything i have done to the 1st half hour of the game.
I got all new models, music, fields, voices, everything lol. So it'll be a good opportunity to just make a video of my work in general
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Salk on 2017-06-14 18:51:51
Tsunamix,

thanks for the update! It is a thrilling one too! I am sorry it is much more work than you expected but I suspected it was very time consuming because other authors mentioned the workload being quite heavy.

I wish I could be of help but I am not really good with graphic and tools. I hope someone else can lean a more significant support than my mere moral one.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-14 19:16:29
Haha, you'd be surprised just how easy it is actually. If i didn't have other projects undergo i could have this done pretty quick.

What i'll do is i'll get maybe up to Shinra ready and release a test pack
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jasmer on 2017-06-14 23:17:31
Just out of curiosity what is your process?
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-14 23:27:17
Okay so first off i use Waifu to upscale the image to 2k resolution.
(As far as a i know this is what all packs are so far)

After that i take the images into gimp and create my own Normal/Bump maps for them and apply them on top of the original. This adds deph and detail to the image.

This process may be improved very shortly to a system that will increase the time needed to complete it tenfold but with exceptional results. BUT i'm not going to be doing that until i have this pack ready. I'll make a second after when i have more time
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jasmer on 2017-06-15 02:28:50
Is this something one can do in GIMP? I'd like to try it out.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-15 02:37:12
Yeah I use gimp for it actually. If you head to my YouTube channel listed under my avatar I have a quick tutorial showing exactly how I do it

Yeah some help would be fantastic. Besides I'd much rather an awesome mod have as many authors to take credit as possible
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Lein on 2017-06-15 09:08:42
I don't see any difference.  :o
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fraggoso on 2017-06-16 14:10:57
Are you really using the online waifu page?
I hope not. ;)

Use this instead:
https://github.com/lltcggie/waifu2x-caffe/releases

If you want to hop on a quick chat regarding upsizing fields let me know. I'm eager to know things I maybe didn't do to improve that on my FFIX release.
And maybe I can help you out as well. :)
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-16 15:52:30
Is it much different? Yeah I'll take any improvement methods lol and glad to help others
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fraggoso on 2017-06-16 15:55:46
First and formost you can do batch conversion with it.
You also have more options to choose. There's also a mode which takes a little longer to upsize but the quality gain is sometime worth it.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-16 16:14:09
Damn, yeah. I'll get on it. Cheers :D
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-06-19 15:21:05
Hi guys, I have another method to improve the backgrounds.Here some pics(left waifu 4x, righ my filtered version):

https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxtapose/latest/embed/index.html?uid=c2aa7ca8-52e1-11e7-baf8-0edaf8f81e27
https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxtapose/latest/embed/index.html?uid=f14917d6-52e1-11e7-baf8-0edaf8f81e27
https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxtapose/latest/embed/index.html?uid=14e08b0c-52e2-11e7-baf8-0edaf8f81e27

I need help with the batch import option of palmer. I don´t know how it works and the palmer front end is not working for me, always says this:
(https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/18/57/87/17/captur42.jpg)
Palmer.exe is in the same folder as the fontend  :oops: Someone know how to figure out this?
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2017-06-19 20:52:20
You loose detail with that method and you will lose it with every automated method. This is an image where I have mixed two Waifu2x outputs one with no noise reduction and one with full.

(http://i.imgur.com/Ui64qsp.jpg)

The Gold Saucer needs mostly the full noise reduction due to the many vibrant colors but the low color resolution of the BGs. The problem is that full noise reduction eats a lot of detail from objects. The solution is to use both upscaled images and use the detail which fits best. Sand and rocks are 10 time better with no noise reduction while plane things absolutely profit from the full noise reduction. Yes, this needs manual work, but I think this will be better than another generic pack I can choose from. Though, since I started with the Goldsaucer and it really is an eye killer I probably make all other images of it that way, too. But I should use a better program than paint.net. Even if some people would do only a few manually it would be much better since they would merge with the current't Waifu upscale pack much better as some pre-rendered upscale.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-06-19 21:40:21
That one looks good. I compared that one with mine and you are right, the colors are better on yours but I think that my method works very good on non brighter colors and grass,sand, rocks, etc. Maybe we can combine our projects and choose the best background of each one. On other hand, do you know how to use the batch function on palmer?? xDD
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-19 23:18:18
My god, that's the clearest image i have EVER seen! You had this potential for this long lol, why wait till now hahaha
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2017-06-20 07:25:04
This is no magic but manual work. There is an image on the TA threat of sector 6 which is only upgraded by Photoshop and I think that it is the best way to upgrade the original images to HQ. With the two Waifu outputs you get a good base for the upgrade, but a bit additional work is needed. I used the rough no noise reduction as base, added a layer and put the (too) smooth output image to that layer. Then I erased areas from it where the rough image did look better. I also added some lines and worked out some details like the letters on the platform (TV Station) and smoothed parts which even Waifu couldn't blend.

This could probably be improved with a better tool and more practice. A bit fake AO with the burn tool or using a generated noise texture to give some surfaces more detail, stuff like that.

@jusete
So far I have no idea how Facepalmer works, sorry.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-06-20 13:31:50
Nice, I will try your method and see If I can find the way to do it quickly. Thanks mate
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-20 17:51:05
I don't know if my method brought us to this but either way I'm glad I made this haha. Best field nod ever is incoming !
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Salk on 2017-06-21 08:19:35
Well, Kaldarasha is a great FF7 graphics artist and I am really glad to see him give his contribution which is truly invaluable.

Hopefully you can combine forces and really provide FF7 with the best possible retouched background screens.

I fear it is a long and tedious work though.

All my best to you guys!
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2017-06-21 08:55:57
I currently have given GIMP a try to I guess with it some further improvements are possible since I can use some brushes and perspectives. Anyway, I only do the Goldsaucer, but first I finish my ChaOS update. When this is all done I have to train my programming skills to create tools for my needs.

My suggestion is to do the cities (also the Chocobo Farm) first since this are places you visit pretty often, though I would say Midgar should be done at the end since its very big and can be demotivating if you do it alone. A city can be done fast and you have also the success of a full finished pack.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2017-06-28 12:14:22
So far I really like Gimp.  ;D

Source (edited)
(http://i.imgur.com/mUNbQbk.png)

Upscale
(http://i.imgur.com/3eFsY1f.png)

I did use Waifu and then edited the image in Gimp. The info is the BG you see when you are going close to it. Thanks to the perspective modification tool I could embed it into the scene pretty well*. Then I tried to work out the letters and worked out some detail to certain objects with the darken/lighten up tool. After that, I used Waifu again to make the image 2k.

*I added it in that step because I want a coherent result. If it would be added to the final upscale, it may clash with its higher detail to the rest of the image.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fraggoso on 2017-06-28 12:44:54
That really looks spectacular!
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jasmer on 2017-06-28 12:55:24
Wow! That looks great!
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Salk on 2017-06-28 14:01:46
Congratulations, Kaldarasha.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-06-28 18:20:39
Kal of you give me a step by step on this I'll help you out. I'd be glad too.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2017-06-28 18:47:35
I currently work out the text on the floor I'm not too happy how it looks now.
As I said this is manual editing which takes some time, BUT it's faster and probably easier to do as a 3D rebuilt (though a professional 3D environment artist would beat me in time I guess). I make a step by step tutorial with ancnt_1 since it was the first scene I tested my idea but hadn't saved the result and it has rough stone elements and the water surface looks amazing with full noise reduction.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fraggoso on 2017-06-28 19:14:21
Looking forward to adept it to my ffix workflow. :)
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-06-29 21:52:41
Hey Kaldarasha, I saw that scene and I thought: damm, that background is not too complex maybe  I can do something with photshop..and here is the WIP:

(https://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/18/57/87/17/prueba10.jpg)

All the field from scratch with photoshop. It´s far from over but I think that looks good. What do you guys think?

Edit: I took your idea of the info panel xD

Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: olearyf2525 on 2017-06-29 21:58:09
Wow Kaldarasha that looks really good.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-06-30 00:49:09
Quick edit :

(https://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/18/57/87/17/prueba12.jpg)

It´s going good. I think that I will finish this weekend xD
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: faulked on 2017-07-01 21:34:50
Damn, Kaldarasha. Your upscale looks amazing. Please make a tutorial how you did that if you have some time.  :D
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-07-02 16:54:17
And here you go guys:

(http://i.imgur.com/tKPrrAp.png)

I changed the style of the litle circles and the info screen. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Tsunamix on 2017-07-02 17:08:47
It's so clear! I love it. Great work :D 10/10
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fraggoso on 2017-07-02 18:00:17
Looks really great.
To ground it I would still prefer that f you could add some ambient occlusion to it. But besides that it's really great.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-07-02 18:16:49
You are right, added some ambient occlusion under the "donuts" and at the edge of the central circle.

(http://i.imgur.com/0lCGJMK.png)
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fraggoso on 2017-07-02 19:55:58
 Can you also add some ao to the brickwork on the bottom right?
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-07-02 21:18:29
Sure, here you go xD:

(http://i.imgur.com/7h8czE7.png)

Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fraggoso on 2017-07-02 21:23:30
This looks really amazing. :)
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-07-08 12:56:13
hey guys, I started to to another background:

(http://i.imgur.com/GUu3Yec.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/AMXs2Ma.jpg)


work in progress xd
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Salk on 2017-07-08 16:33:17
Nice!

I hope you guys can coordinate efforts so that you won't work on the same stuff.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: DLPB on 2017-07-08 17:06:31
It's amazing what you guys can do.  I don't have any kind of skill for graphics.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-07-08 20:11:09
Thanks guys! I think that I should open a thread in team avalanche's section. Tsunamix's project is more like improvements on the background( for most of them it's a good solution) but some of them need more details that we only can have making the background from scratch (it's because that I'm doing this). I think that Team avalanche has a "to do" list so will be more organized.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-07-18 20:48:03
Some progress with games_1d:

Original
(https://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/18/57/87/17/wonder10.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/18578717/836)
New
(https://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/18/57/87/17/wonder11.jpg) (https://servimg.com/view/18578717/837)


Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: Fischkopf on 2017-07-29 19:09:26
Sure, here you go xD:

(http://i.imgur.com/7h8czE7.png)


Great work considering you only used photoshop. This is the next best thing to an actual rebuilt rendered scene. Actually could probably improve a lot of scenes in Photohop by simply painting over the upscaled versions and bring in some more detail.
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: KnifeTheSky77 on 2017-07-30 17:47:29
Great work!
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-08-04 00:27:55
Thanks guys. I don´t have too much time this days so the progress on games_1d is a bit slow but here is a little update:

(http://i.imgur.com/IQy48P5.jpg)

I only have to do the crane machines, the small ones at the front and the spot lights. Hopefully the next time I post will be done xD

Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: jusete on 2017-08-24 16:20:45
I´ve created a post in Team avalanche´s section. Go to the link below if you want to keep updated about my backgrounds project xD.

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=17791.msg252886#new (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=17791.msg252886#new)
Title: Re: New field scenes, just need some help achieving it
Post by: LCRava on 2017-10-08 09:50:54
Anyone able to help me get one in game so the can test and improve on it? Also does the size have to remain at 512x512 or can it be different?

I’d like to help but I do not have any experience doing this kind of work. If one of you guys still want to take the time to teach me, please let me know.

Otherwise, great work from all you guys and thank you  for your other mods.