Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994) (Read 4869605 times)

Metsys · « **Reply #10200 on:** 2020-08-13 20:05:05 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2020-08-13 16:45:23

Feedback on Type B's Midgar has been generally positive so far, but I got the feeling people were a bit disappointed post-Midgar. So can maybe go a bit further in places with that.

May i give a suggestion?

Spoiler: show

chimaerath · « **Reply #10201 on:** 2020-08-13 21:09:12 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2020-08-13 16:45:23

I'm not sure how you got to Wall Market when Junon is your next destination, the Key to Sector 5 typically can't be dug up until after Diamond Weapon has been fought, just prior to the Midgar Raid starting unless I've set the condition for digging the key up to be earlier at some point and forgotten about it. So the earliest intended acquisition of Premium Heart is just prior to Midgar Raid on Disc 2.

In the base game, I'm pretty sure you could dig it up after Cloud returns to the party. I thought the sequence was:
Cloud returns to party --> NPC outside Midgar complains of losing key --> Key is able to be dug up --> ? ? ? ? --> Premium Heart

Put another way: In 2.0.9, I followed that sequence and got the Premium Heart, even though the next story location is Underwater Reactor.

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10202 on:** 2020-08-13 21:34:18 »

Quote from: Schrödinger on 2020-08-13 19:03:22

Bug? Type B. Cosmo Canyon. Just after finishing Gi Caves. I talked to the handyman, chose to give him 1000g for the job, he said something along the lines of "You seem nice people, let me give you an advice..." And then nothing, his model become non-colision. Did I miss some dialogue or reward?

Nah not missed anything, will check it out. You can grab the hidden elixir from the inn room regardless.

Quote from: Metsys on 2020-08-13 20:05:05

May i give a suggestion?
Spoiler: show
When i saw in story B that biggs, wedge and jessie lived and basically the plate didnt fall, i expected to see them again in the future. In fact, i expected to see them as the highwind crew rather than the usual ones. Maybe a good story B change would be biggs, wedge and jessie to join the highwind crew as the ones under charge of Cid, and they tell the party that they heard how avalanche was captured in junon, so they travelled to Junon to help you, something like that. Just a suggestion of course, it was a bit weird to see avalanche surviving but not using them. I think it would be perfect: 3 members, 3 highwind crew.

I dunno, my general direction was going to be they stuck around Sector 7 which could be revisited on Disc 2/3 but hadn't established what the purpose of that would be in terms of optional goodies. Another possibility was having them bail on the whole thing; in the deactivated scenes, there was one where they more or less say that they're on the verge of quitting (can't recall how it was triggered, was to do with entering/leaving the 7th heaven bar but I didn't re-add that one so not sure).

Quote from: chimaerath on 2020-08-13 21:09:12

In the base game, I'm pretty sure you could dig it up after Cloud returns to the party. I thought the sequence was:
Cloud returns to party --> NPC outside Midgar complains of losing key --> Key is able to be dug up --> ? ? ? ? --> Premium Heart

Put another way: In 2.0.9, I followed that sequence and got the Premium Heart, even though the next story location is Underwater Reactor.

I looked it up and seems so; when Cloud returns to the party, it says, you can dig up the key anytime after that. This feels like the Mandela effect or something though, I was 99% sure you needed to be at the Midgar Raid segment first.

Pruntarious · « **Reply #10203 on:** 2020-08-13 21:36:14 »

Quote from: Metsys on 2020-08-13 20:05:05

May i give a suggestion?
Spoiler: show
When i saw in story B that biggs, wedge and jessie lived and basically the plate didnt fall, i expected to see them again in the future. In fact, i expected to see them as the highwind crew rather than the usual ones. Maybe a good story B change would be biggs, wedge and jessie to join the highwind crew as the ones under charge of Cid, and they tell the party that they heard how avalanche was captured in junon, so they travelled to Junon to help you, something like that. Just a suggestion of course, it was a bit weird to see avalanche surviving but not using them. I think it would be perfect: 3 members, 3 highwind crew.

Another nice thing would be to somehow upgrade your weapons like in the remake. Even just the materia slots... Always a sucker for seeing cloud use the Buster Sword more. Not sure if that's even possible though. :/

El Grillo · « **Reply #10204 on:** 2020-08-13 21:37:00 »

Yeah, in my current game I was also able to dig up the Sector 5 Key right after Mideel collapse and before the Underwater Reactor.

Would it be possible for Aerith, when equipped with a healing rod and Counter Attack, to target an ally instead of an enemy? Totally understandable if not, I just want to try out a silly build

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10205 on:** 2020-08-13 22:00:51 »

Quote from: Pruntarious on 2020-08-13 21:36:14

Another nice thing would be to somehow upgrade your weapons like in the remake. Even just the materia slots... Always a sucker for seeing cloud use the Buster Sword more. Not sure if that's even possible though. :/

There's a special opcode that was added to deal with editing memory like the kernel while the game is running, but I think it's restricted to Reunion so I haven't utilised just yet.

Installer: No special functionality
7th Heaven: Model/File swapping at runtime
Reunion: Memory modification through field script

At some point I'm going to do some tests to see if the special opcodes crash on non-Reunion games when the field loads or if the script encounters it; if it's the latter, then I can probably set up a single flevel that can cover all 3 of the above, locking specific functionality to each version to avoid problems. That way Reunion can have things like weapon upgrade, source-build reset, etc. and 7h can make use of model/file swapping for special encounters and the like.

Quote from: El Grillo on 2020-08-13 21:37:00

Yeah, in my current game I was also able to dig up the Sector 5 Key right after Mideel collapse and before the Underwater Reactor.

Would it be possible for Aerith, when equipped with a healing rod and Counter Attack, to target an ally instead of an enemy? Totally understandable if not, I just want to try out a silly build

I think it isn't, as it specifically goes after the previous attacker.

Aerodynamics · « **Reply #10206 on:** 2020-08-13 22:59:51 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2020-08-13 16:45:23

I'm a bit torn on whether to continue with FF8 NT. I've got a fairly good grasp of the field scripting but the biggest obstacle at the moment is not being able to easily bring in or swap out field models + animations are tied to the field model group which restricts what can be done there. My plan is going to be getting all the foundation work done first off, then start seeing what I can get done with Disc 4 as I wanted to do more with the time-compression state you move through before the castle.

In my opinion, no one can fix FF8 but Sega Chief. I really enjoyed the gameplay of NT Demo, and that was the only time I enjoyed FF8 gameplay. That game is so good, yet completely broken. Someone needs to fix FF8. I can wait, it's my childhood game, I can wait a year or two, take your time

))))

Metsys · « **Reply #10207 on:** 2020-08-13 23:09:56 »

Sega chief a question, are you sure that Shield is in the crater? ive checked the left-down path but i cant seem to find it. Its the only magic im missing

Concession · « **Reply #10208 on:** 2020-08-13 23:32:16 »

Two more small things

Spoiler: show

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10209 on:** 2020-08-14 01:00:03 »

Quote from: Metsys on 2020-08-13 23:09:56

Sega chief a question, are you sure that Shield is in the crater? ive checked the left-down path but i cant seem to find it. Its the only magic im missing

It's where Mega-All is in the default game, you have to grab it as you jump between the platforms. It's close to the exit of that entire route.

Quote from: Concession on 2020-08-13 23:32:16

Two more small things

Spoiler: show

At the start of the Midgar raid, the party is gathered around a ladder which goes underground. Aeris is there and has a line even if she is dead.

When you talk to Hojo at the cannon at the end of the raid:

Hojo
"...We made ourselves an 'Ancient'!!
Or so we throught! Ha ha ha!!"

I'll get them.

chimaerath · « **Reply #10210 on:** 2020-08-14 04:23:29 »

Spoiler: show

wdx · « **Reply #10211 on:** 2020-08-14 05:32:22 »

Quote from: chimaerath on 2020-08-14 04:23:29

Spoiler: show

During Cid's Zombincibility, Omega never did anything, I assume because Cid couldn't be targeted (because I couldn't target Cid with anything either). I only occasionally saw the " Target Locked!" pop-up, but with no animation from Omega.

I didn't remember the info about Zombie from the Beginner Hall, and I didn't find info about Statuses in the Documentation (can I suggest putting it in the Balancing document?), so the only info I found was from these posts, and it sounds like you should still be able to target and cast spells (like Barrier/MBarrier) on Zombie-d characters.

||

Spoiler: show

lycancowboy1989 · « **Reply #10212 on:** 2020-08-14 05:35:05 »

A couple more bugs

Spoiler: show

Also you mentioned Junon league being disabled for this build, is that for both game modes or just B?

As for the feedback for game mode B after finishing it, medgar is excellent. Content past midgar is a little sparse particularly once you get the highwind.(which was somewhat the case in base game as well but what was there was pretty good.

Spoiler: show

wdx · « **Reply #10213 on:** 2020-08-14 07:21:58 »

for anyone having gil grind issues with type b heres a handy price guide

Spoiler: show

DefMettle · « **Reply #10214 on:** 2020-08-14 07:55:55 »

https://ibb.co/LrvvcL0 v2.0.91
does this need changing?

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10215 on:** 2020-08-14 13:08:22 »

Quote from: chimaerath on 2020-08-14 04:23:29

Spoiler: show

Something weird happened in the KOTR fight. I can't exactly remember what happened, but I think this was the sequence:

*stuff happened* --> Cid died --> Shinryu cast the zombie thing that said it is permeating the air --> Cid was revived with Renew --> I could control Cid normally --> Cloud died --> I couldn't target Cloud to revive him, including with Renew --> eventually Aeris died --> I couldn't target anyone now, but Cid was still alive --> Cid spent the next 10+ minutes slowly chipping down Omega until he died.

Disclaimer: I don't know exactly when Cid died. But, I definitely couldn't target Cloud or Aeris once they died, and I definitely cast Renew on Cid to revive him at some point.

During Cid's Zombincibility, Omega never did anything, I assume because Cid couldn't be targeted (because I couldn't target Cid with anything either). I only occasionally saw the " Target Locked!" pop-up, but with no animation from Omega.

I didn't remember the info about Zombie from the Beginner Hall, and I didn't find info about Statuses in the Documentation (can I suggest putting it in the Balancing document?), so the only info I found was from these posts, and it sounds like you should still be able to target and cast spells (like Barrier/MBarrier) on Zombie-d characters.

If you want, you can wait until tomorrow, and I'll try the fight again and recreate what had happened.

I had a look and it's almost certainly to do with a change I made between the 1.5 AI and the 2.0 AI, which was to make afflicted characters untargetable. I've reverted this back and set them to be immune to restorative instead; I think that Phoenix/Goblin Song can get around this effect though, as they're not technically elemental but applied through a special flag on that attacks themselves.

Quote from: lycancowboy1989 on 2020-08-14 05:35:05

A couple more bugs

Spoiler: show
ruby weapon did not spawn for me at all but the other weapons did, not sure of the cause.

In nibelheim path to reactor the first time in the room with the pipes where you fight the boss blocking the right side of the screen(atm I think) the boss stays there after defeating him allowing you to fight him a second time after which he disappears. You get sp for both battles having me end up with 5/4 upgrades for each character. Game type B.

Also you mentioned Junon league being disabled for this build, is that for both game modes or just B?

As for the feedback for game mode B after finishing it, medgar is excellent. Content past midgar is a little sparse particularly once you get the highwind.(which was somewhat the case in base game as well but what was there was pretty good.

Spoiler: show
As for suggestions to pad that out, perhaps take the optional things and tie them in to mandatory quests? Things like ancient forest, materia caves, weapon fights, etc. Apart from that small sidequests for each of the towns could help there as well to make the game world seem a bit more alive. Perhaps tracking down zack's last mission details for his parents, helping Marlene in kalm, putting Seto to rest in Cosmo canyon or perhaps rumors of another of red 13s species surviving (to explain the kids he has in the final cutscene), Junon league eventually for junon, a quest to earn the villa in Costa del sol etc just small things like that.

As for possibilities for more drastic changes if you felt you wanted to go that route, eliminating the ending cutscene and using scene work to replace it could lead to interesting possibilities with different outcomes or if possible even clipping the final fMV to only show certain parts to craft a new narrative. At one point in the story some background 8nfo was leading me to speculate the story may have changed to be cloud and sephiroth being competing prototypes rather than a master and clone setup, which could be an interesting path to go down. Perhaps dr gast having escaped and created cloud as an anti sephiroth weapon through elmyras DNA being infused to create a jenova cell vs ancient cell situation. At another point it seemed almost as if sephiroth had been rewritten to be less psychopathic and seemed like the possibility was there of him joining the team in the fight against jehovah which could also have been interesting, but of course a lot more work. Just ideas if you decide to change things further.

Ruby spawns after after a certain number of random battles are fought and/or fields are visited once Ultimate Weapon is killed.

That double-boss in Nibelheim should have been fixed as of the latest patches. Are you on the current version?

Quote from: DefMettle on 2020-08-14 07:55:55

https://ibb.co/LrvvcL0 v2.0.91
does this need changing?

Yeah, I've updated it now in my current files for v2.0.92.

Quote from: storminjnorman on 2020-08-14 08:16:41

My game keeps getting stuck after the optional battle in Midgar Underground with the Turks. Whether or not I fight them, Rude always comes running in from the 4th wall and keeps running into a pillar, and keeps running, basically softlocking the game.

Help?

Are you on v2.0.6 or later? If so, let me know which characters are in your team as this affects the scene. For now, try PHSing Tifa in (or out) of your team and reattempting it, assuming you're on the most recent version.

storminjnorman · « **Reply #10216 on:** 2020-08-14 13:34:15 »

I hadn't updated, and when I did it worked. Tried to delete my message but it was too late! Thanks!

lycancowboy1989 · « **Reply #10217 on:** 2020-08-14 13:37:28 »

Quote

Ruby spawns after after a certain number of random battles are fought and/or fields are visited once Ultimate Weapon is killed.

That double-boss in Nibelheim should have been fixed as of the latest patches. Are you on the current version?

I am on the current version as far as i know. This occurred the day before yesterday, and the file was started two days before that immediately after updating. if it was patched out at some point after the 12th of august then it may be that, but otherwise im updated already.

as for ruby weapon ultimate weapon had been killed and had probably fifty or so battles on the overworld before trying to go after him, at which point he was not there. If the threshold for battles fought is higher than forty or so after ultimate then you can just ignore that bug and ill try again after more fights.

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10218 on:** 2020-08-14 13:57:10 »

Quote from: storminjnorman on 2020-08-14 13:34:15

I hadn't updated, and when I did it worked. Tried to delete my message but it was too late! Thanks!

Ah cool, no worries.

Quote from: lycancowboy1989 on 2020-08-14 13:37:28

I am on the current version as far as i know. This occurred the day before yesterday, and the file was started two days before that immediately after updating. if it was patched out at some point after the 12th of august then it may be that, but otherwise im updated already.

as for ruby weapon ultimate weapon had been killed and had probably fifty or so battles on the overworld before trying to go after him, at which point he was not there. If the threshold for battles fought is higher than forty or so after ultimate then you can just ignore that bug and ill try again after more fights.

I'll check into Mt. Nibel again then.

Ruby's spawn has always been a bit erratic; it should be the same as in vanilla. General consensus is that it's Ultimate Weapon defeated, then one random battle on the world map: https://youtu.be/tNHugNx-kDE

But a few other things I found:
1) Some people claim that Ruby can spawn but still be invisible. Try flying down low around the desert area just in case.
2) Diamond Weapon is claimed to be another requirement.

LeOsTyLe · « **Reply #10219 on:** 2020-08-14 15:39:03 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2020-08-13 16:45:23

Junon League was deactivated in this build, though the script handling it is still in there in case it gets re-implemented but I've no plans to currently.

Is there any reason you removed it? The Junon League was a really cool idea in my opinion.
I hope there is no more content from NT 1.5 deactived.

Schrödinger · « **Reply #10220 on:** 2020-08-14 16:45:25 »

Gameplay feedback for Type B (Hard Mode, No Sources): I've just only finished Cosmo Canyon but so far I 've found the difficulty more than manageable. I've never die, never had to use items other than the casual potion/phoenix, never run from a battle. I'm using ATB Wait ofc. Problem is the Gil. I don't want the money to make my life easier but I want to have at least "one of each". It's not fun to have to skip some weapons (specially now that they're so different from each other) or materia. And there's the Condor War, that requires to have at least 4k in the pocket everytime. I was thinking about toggling to no exp, easy mode to grind gil but that just seems gimmicky. So, I'd reconsider about the No Gil feature of hard mode. Just my two cents. Awesome mod either way!

LeOsTyLe · « **Reply #10221 on:** 2020-08-14 17:24:27 »

Quote from: Schrödinger on 2020-08-14 16:45:25

Gameplay feedback for Type B (Hard Mode, No Sources): I've just only finished Cosmo Canyon but so far I 've found the difficulty more than manageable. I've never die, never had to use items other than the casual potion/phoenix, never run from a battle. I'm using ATB Wait ofc. Problem is the Gil. I don't want the money to make my life easier but I want to have at least "one of each". It's not fun to have to skip some weapons (specially now that they're so different from each other) or materia. And there's the Condor War, that requires to have at least 4k in the pocket everytime. I was thinking about toggling to no exp, easy mode to grind gil but that just seems gimmicky. So, I'd reconsider about the No Gil feature of hard mode. Just my two cents. Awesome mod either way!

A tip for fast money in Hard. In "early" game go for Morph Kalm Wolves (almost 3k per Battle, minus some "wrong" enconters") and in "Midgame" Cosmo Canyon Beach (on averange almost 8k per Battle). You can prepeare Morph with Spell+All. You have to adjust the Magic stat of the caster so the morph Character can kill them with 1 Morph. I had like 50-60 Kalm Wolves now i am out of money and luckiely i just arrived in cosmo canyon.

But yeah 0 Gil can be annoying.

Pruntarious · « **Reply #10222 on:** 2020-08-14 17:28:49 »

Have many of the side quests in disc 3 changed compared to v1.5?

Got to the bottom of the crater and there wasn't the phone call about the New Threats. I've noticed some of the final weapons and limits have changed yeah but have you gotten rid of the Mt Nibel, Corel side missions? Those were fun...

Spoiler: show

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10223 on:** 2020-08-14 18:02:20 »

Quote from: LeOsTyLe on 2020-08-14 15:39:03

Is there any reason you removed it? The Junon League was a really cool idea in my opinion.
I hope there is no more content from NT 1.5 deactived.

It could make a return, but no plans yet.

Quote from: Schrödinger on 2020-08-14 16:45:25

Gameplay feedback for Type B (Hard Mode, No Sources): I've just only finished Cosmo Canyon but so far I 've found the difficulty more than manageable. I've never die, never had to use items other than the casual potion/phoenix, never run from a battle. I'm using ATB Wait ofc. Problem is the Gil. I don't want the money to make my life easier but I want to have at least "one of each". It's not fun to have to skip some weapons (specially now that they're so different from each other) or materia. And there's the Condor War, that requires to have at least 4k in the pocket everytime. I was thinking about toggling to no exp, easy mode to grind gil but that just seems gimmicky. So, I'd reconsider about the No Gil feature of hard mode. Just my two cents. Awesome mod either way!

Seems to be the emerging consensus; a revision to hard mode will need to wait for a 2.1 update I think as it'd be a fair bit of work.

Quote from: Pruntarious on 2020-08-14 17:28:49

Have many of the side quests in disc 3 changed compared to v1.5?

Got to the bottom of the crater and there wasn't the phone call about the New Threats. I've noticed some of the final weapons and limits have changed yeah but have you gotten rid of the Mt Nibel, Corel side missions? Those were fun...

Spoiler: show

Also just went to Lucrecia's cave on Disc 3 with Tifa as leader.... Game soft locks.

There's no phone call; most of it unlocks on Disc 3 now without the crater as a requirement. Notable exception is the party leader swap thing.

Cid's sidequest got canned, and Tifa's is back to the default of playing the piano for Final Heaven and getting Premium Heart from the automated weapon shop in Wall Market (though I made the Cloud, Tifa, Cid scene for it play automatically and modified it slightly). Aeris' one is also gone and was tied into Cloud's instead as an appended scene. The pre-existing sidequests for Lv.4 Limits that came over from 1.5 were modified and revamped, with the exception of Barret though he has a small scene in Kalm's Weapon Shop for Catastrophe.

Doll · « **Reply #10224 on:** 2020-08-14 21:47:37 »

the no gil on hard mode is useful as an indicator as to whether or not hard mode is actually on, at least!!

Just got to costa del sol, lot of fun so far. Looking at the balancing readme, if I'm reading things correctly, it feels hard to justify certain 'builds' if you want to play optimally or w/e. 50 points of vit/spr being equivalent to a respective 10% damage feels pretty underwhelming when dex does so many things (including evasion, so it kind of fills vit's role as well by increasing your ability to survive physical attacks) in addition to 50 points being equivalent to a haste buff. Maybe there's a lot of secret math going on and I'll regret this when late game enemies are pummeling me.