Author Topic: The Squall's Dead Theory  (Read 90975 times)

Mkilbride2599

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #125 on: 2010-06-26 18:02:33 »
Huh. This actually seems very likely. Good theory, I wish FFVIII's producer gave a damn to read it and give his thoughts.

Adhira

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #126 on: 2010-06-26 18:09:45 »
Personally, i don't think it could be true at all. If it was, why didn't the writer ever hint at it directly in the game, or at the very end? Why did no one hint at it through the following years, even during the official interview to the story writer that you can find online? In it the writer clearly stated what metaphor FF8 was intended to deliver and for what purpose the story was written in that way, making no mention of such a mind blowing theory.
So yeah, it's interesting, but to argue over it is pointless, since there is only a slight probability it is true and a far smaller probability someone with authority will ever tell us.

ScottMcTony

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #127 on: 2010-06-27 02:15:52 »
Mind you neither interpretation is necessarily true in any objective way. I mean both are consistent with canon, and I would ask that you consider http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor

natkoden

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #128 on: 2010-06-27 02:44:21 »
Reminds me of the theory of "Tony is dead" with The Sopranos, lol

Lion

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #129 on: 2010-06-27 04:24:54 »
Mind you neither interpretation is necessarily true in any objective way. I mean both are consistent with canon, and I would ask that you consider http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor
consistency with canon does not give someone permission to wildly speculate. like matrix bible or A-team shakespeare.


ScottMcTony

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #130 on: 2010-06-27 06:36:44 »
Mind you neither interpretation is necessarily true in any objective way. I mean both are consistent with canon, and I would ask that you consider http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor
consistency with canon does not give someone permission to wildly speculate. like matrix bible or A-team shakespeare.

And I would ask that you consider http://squallsdead.com/

nikfrozty

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #131 on: 2010-06-27 07:12:55 »
Mind you neither interpretation is necessarily true in any objective way. I mean both are consistent with canon, and I would ask that you consider http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor
consistency with canon does not give someone permission to wildly speculate. like matrix bible or A-team shakespeare.

And I would ask that you consider http://squallsdead.com/
That site is genius for this theory although I still don't know what to believe. I guess we'll never know if he's really dead or not since I've played the game many times and it never occured to me that Squall died at that time or any other time in the game.

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #132 on: 2010-06-27 08:39:07 »
What really matters is the individual's interpretation of the work, right?  Just go with whatever suits you.  If it isn't provable and "it doesn't make the story better" for you (quote from gjoerulv), then reject it.

nikfrozty

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #133 on: 2010-06-27 09:42:36 »
But this really weirds me out. If it was all a dream then Squall dreams of Laguna in his dream?? Its like his alive in the dream and in that dream he's dreaming of Laguna's past. And you're right, let's all just think that whether it really happened or not, Squall loved Rinoa even in his dreams. :)

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #134 on: 2010-06-27 10:21:23 »
It's possible in theory, and maybe not just in the fictional world.  Maybe we are all in a very long dream ourselves ;D

Chocobo_Girl

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #135 on: 2010-06-27 16:02:00 »
It's possible in theory, and maybe not just in the fictional world.  Maybe we are all in a very long dream ourselves ;D

I believe that we are all a product of someone's dream. It's kinda like having a God but different. That would explain the possibility of 2012, the person dreaming would just wake up. :P :P

Furzball

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #136 on: 2010-06-27 16:34:52 »
It's possible in theory, and maybe not just in the fictional world.  Maybe we are all in a very long dream ourselves ;D

I believe that we are all a product of someone's dream. It's kinda like having a God but different. That would explain the possibility of 2012, the person dreaming would just wake up. :P :P
God is a late sleeper getting up at 8:12PM his time.

Opine

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #137 on: 2010-06-27 16:55:33 »
I believe that we are all a product of someone's dream. It's kinda like having a God but different. That would explain the possibility of 2012, the person dreaming would just wake up. :P :P
I pity the person dreaming about me. What an inane plot...

Lion

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #138 on: 2010-06-27 17:59:38 »
Mind you neither interpretation is necessarily true in any objective way. I mean both are consistent with canon, and I would ask that you consider http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor
consistency with canon does not give someone permission to wildly speculate. like matrix bible or A-team shakespeare.

And I would ask that you consider http://squallsdead.com/

lol u serious? matrix bible can be backed up with symbolism quite easily. and matrix bible is completely retarded. anyone can claim anything and use symbolic proof to support it. though his examples of proof aren't what is interpreted by the majority of the population. not even in the top 10 of what people initially interpret the evidence to be. just because it's possible does not make it reasonable.
i argued that cloud was dead and there is a lot of symbolism for the cloud is dead theory as well. and it can be argued just as easily with any other FF that the main character is dead. im saying it's possible but the chances of it are infinitely small. this looks more like a case of confirmation bias than anything else. guy sees vanilla sky (a movie that came out after ff8) thinks it would be cool for ff8 to be VS. projects it on to FF8. then through confirmation bias details that support him is evidence details that don't are ignored. religion (in my personal belief) is full of confirmation bias. I'm not saying god exists or not but a lot of things that don't seem to mean anything (like finding $ on the ground) is used as proof that God exists.

obesebear

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #139 on: 2010-06-27 20:37:20 »
And I would ask that you consider http://squallsdead.com/

WALL OF TEXT, NO CAPITLIZATION.
Seriously, I'm not even following the conversation,  but you're Wall o' Text and lack of capitalization makes me want to punch a baby.   I can't even start to read it without feeling like I'm somehow being trolled.   For the love of God can someone please translate?

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #140 on: 2010-06-27 21:01:04 »
And I would ask that you consider http://squallsdead.com/

WALL OF TEXT, NO CAPITLIZATION.
Seriously, I'm not even following the conversation,  but you're Wall o' Text and lack of capitalization makes me want to punch a baby.   I can't even start to read it without feeling like I'm somehow being trolled.   For the love of God can someone please translate?

I'll have a go:

Excuse me sir, was your post a work of satire? One can quite easily use the argument that things are to be taken as "symbolic" to defend the Matrix Bible, even though the intellectual integrity of this work is questionable. It is not hard to make use of sophistic devices in order to defend a poor argument, claiming that thing are to be taken as symbolic; however, the general public disagrees with the interpretation of the things he gives as proof to his theories. It is not even amongst the ten most common prima facie interpretations of the evidence we have. The possibility of a theory being true is not sufficient justification for claiming it is true.

I argued, sir, that Cloud was dead and that one can support this theory by invoking "symbolism" in the game as evidence. In fact, this argument can be made to support theories that other main characters in the Final Fantasy series are dead. I say that it is possible but highly improbable, and believe that you are the victim of confirmation bias. This fellow saw Vanilla Sky (a film that was released after Final Fantasy VIII) and, after coming to the idea that it would be jolly well spiffing for Final Fantasy VIII to be Vanilla Sky, suffers from a confirmation bias that leads him to accept without question anything that supports his argument and ignore anything that appears to contradict it. I think religious people are often victims of confirmation bias. Whilst I shall not attempt to answer the question of whether God exists, I would like to point out that seemingly random events (such as a person finding money on the floor) are often used as evidence for the existence of God.

I'm sorry, I couldn't make any sense out of it. I think that our good friend might be one of those computer programs designed to pass the Turing test, one that spews out random phrases in order to give the impression of being human.
« Last Edit: 2010-06-27 21:05:05 by Kudistos Megistos »

obesebear

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #141 on: 2010-06-27 21:19:46 »
Ah, my deepest gratitude, good sir.   It would appear, fortunately, that there is some sense to be made of it.  I do believe the problem stems from a gross overuse of filler information.   I will have a go at summarizing his post based solely off of your rough translation.


Summary
I disagree with the points made in the link you provided.  Reason being, I believe something different.  I am also not a religious person.
I would like to apologize in advance if there were some issues of importance that I missed.  Any other attempts at translation or summarizing are most certainly welcome.  If we all chip in, we are sure to crack this dialect!

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #142 on: 2010-06-28 02:01:01 »
Count me out >:(

Also, this thread needs more images...


ScottMcTony

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #143 on: 2010-06-28 02:13:36 »
Guys I think I'm in love with OutFoxxed.

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #144 on: 2010-06-28 02:17:50 »

Mirenheart

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #145 on: 2010-06-29 03:05:13 »
Oh man, the fun I could have with this thread. My creative mind and lack of caring about other people will make some great stuff here.

FFVII/FFX(-2):

Final Fantasy X(-2) is the past of Final Fantasy VII, as proved by Shinra when he discovers the energy in the planet. Thus, in the future of FFVII, when Cloud dies in the Northern Crater, he clings to life, because he feels he hasn't dealt with everything he should have, much like how Seymour and Auron did in the past.

And after he defeats Sephiroth, he can't go on to the Life Stream because there's no Summoners to help him move on.

 And then, Sephiroth, using another person, comes back to a half life to try and bring Cloud back to the Life Stream, because Sephiroth, after talking with Aeris, has made a revelation and now feels the need to help Cloud back to the Life Stream.

(Yeah, I'm just pullin this outa my ass. I don't really believe this.)

FFVII:

Summon Materia isn't made like other Materia. Blank, non-magical materia is occasionally formed, and when a powerful individual or group (KOTR) die near this blank materia, instead of going to the Life Stream, the blank materia absorbs the persons soul, and creates a summon.

(THis would be pretty cool twist to FFVII)

FF in General:

What if all the final fantasy are just part of one long timeline that is constantly changing because of earth shattering events that rearange the planet it self, and the games are all just important events in the timeline of the planet whenever it's threated by some strong, evil individual?

Real Life:

What if it's all fake, and we're just dreaming? Or we're in the Matrix! And the Matrix movies are the way the people outside of the Matrix are trying to tell us what we're in? Or even worse! George Lucas is planing on making another Star Wars movie based on what happens before the original trilogy!?


Well, take that into what ever direction you feel like, cause I'm most likely going to laugh manically about it.


Chocobo_Girl

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #146 on: 2010-06-29 03:36:00 »
FF in General:

What if all the final fantasy are just part of one long timeline that is constantly changing because of earth shattering events that rearange the planet it self, and the games are all just important events in the timeline of the planet whenever it's threated by some strong, evil individual?

Or rather, what if all the final fantasy games are all the same story taking place in different possible dimensions? ;D :P

Mirenheart

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #147 on: 2010-06-29 03:39:40 »
Or rather, what if all the final fantasy games are all the same story taking place in different possible dimensions? ;D :P

That just:

My mind.

Chocobo_Girl

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #148 on: 2010-06-29 03:46:31 »
Or rather, what if all the final fantasy games are all the same story taking place in different possible dimensions? ;D :P

That just:
[img]blew[ /img]
My mind.

Sorry. Have a bandaid *hands over a bandaid* =D

The general plot of final fantasy games are very similar. Especially in the earlier games. FF1 and FF3 are about 4 lightwarriors going to fight off some evil d00d. FF3 and FF5 both have evil d00ds who want to return the world to the void, etc. =P

nikfrozty

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Re: The Squall's Dead Theory
« Reply #149 on: 2010-06-29 12:07:35 »
Oh man, the fun I could have with this thread. My creative mind and lack of caring about other people will make some great stuff here.

FFVII/FFX(-2):

Final Fantasy X(-2) is the past of Final Fantasy VII, as proved by Shinra when he discovers the energy in the planet. Thus, in the future of FFVII, when Cloud dies in the Northern Crater, he clings to life, because he feels he hasn't dealt with everything he should have, much like how Seymour and Auron did in the past.

And after he defeats Sephiroth, he can't go on to the Life Stream because there's no Summoners to help him move on.

 And then, Sephiroth, using another person, comes back to a half life to try and bring Cloud back to the Life Stream, because Sephiroth, after talking with Aeris, has made a revelation and now feels the need to help Cloud back to the Life Stream.

(Yeah, I'm just pullin this outa my ass. I don't really believe this.)

FFVII:

Summon Materia isn't made like other Materia. Blank, non-magical materia is occasionally formed, and when a powerful individual or group (KOTR) die near this blank materia, instead of going to the Life Stream, the blank materia absorbs the persons soul, and creates a summon.

(THis would be pretty cool twist to FFVII)

FF in General:

What if all the final fantasy are just part of one long timeline that is constantly changing because of earth shattering events that rearange the planet it self, and the games are all just important events in the timeline of the planet whenever it's threated by some strong, evil individual?

Real Life:

What if it's all fake, and we're just dreaming? Or we're in the Matrix! And the Matrix movies are the way the people outside of the Matrix are trying to tell us what we're in? Or even worse! George Lucas is planing on making another Star Wars movie based on what happens before the original trilogy!?


Well, take that into what ever direction you feel like, cause I'm most likely going to laugh manically about it.


You have a very imaginative mind there. Although I like your theory about the ff7 summons since in ff8 they are monsters we can fight I kind of think that summons in ff7 was monsters before.